Odds and Ends

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:09 pm

dboss wrote:72 is pretty impressive in spite of the exchange rate.

Dboss

dboss,

Ha!  Good one.  Mr. Herky Jerky drives me crazy but we sure could use another ball handler and shooter and Lord Knows he is that.

I watched the GSW-Kings game last night.

21 points by Cousins in the 1st half.  Was hit with his 4th foul in the 3rd and had to sit.  33 points on 12-27, 10 rebs, 3 steals.  He was bring the ball up full court and hitting guys with passes.  He combines the best qualities of Sully's rebounding and inside game and the best qualities of Kelly's outside shooting and big man ball handling.  He can even hit fritos.  In an era where centers can't hit shots from further than 8-10' he was 7-9 from the line and 2-6 from 3.  We would kill for Sully to hit 33% from 3.  He got T'd up.  He is leading the league with 78 T's and 10 ejections.  10 ejections in 37 games.  That's the down side, but if he is on the court he is one of the best players on the court unless he's playing GSW and even then he's one of the top 2 or 3 and GSW is an incredibly talent-loaded team.  How to tame his inability to communicate with the refs without pissing them off, is the question.  33 points in 30 minutes.  Not too shabby.  His skill sets are off the charts for a big.  Off. The.  Charts.  He really can do it all.  Fortunately/unfortunately, depending upon how you choose to look at it, Willie Cauley-Stein's having "sickle cell trait", which limits endurance, might put him on the block before Cousins.  Stein has talent, not as much nor as broad as Cousins but talent, but if he can't play hard for 25-30 minutes that will severely limit his career and therefore might be more expendable to them (and less appealing to us.  We need a starter who can go 30 mpg at a high level).

Rondo with 12 assists, 2-8 from the field.  In other words, typical Rondo.  He made sure he got the stats he cares about.

Curry was 38 points on 12-21.  8-14 from 3.  8-for-14.  11 assists and 4 TOs put him right up there with Rondo's 12 and 4 and his 6 rebounds beat Rondo's 3.  Watching Curry is something else.  I have watched one or two pretty good shooters over the decades and I've never seen anybody like him.  All he needs is a fraction of a second and the barest sliver of daylight.  I have never seen a better, quicker, more accurate shooter from any range than him.


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:44 pm

bobheckler wrote:He got T'd up. He is leading the league with 78 T's and 10 ejections. 10 ejections in 37 games.
Not sure where you got those stats, but I'll go out on a limb and say they're for more than just this season. Getting 78 techs and 10 ejections in 37 games would be quite an achievement.

The GS broadcast analyst, Jim Barnett, commented several times prior to that fourth foul that Cousins wasn't complaining as much as usual, but I thought he was. Every little thing that doesn't go his way -- a shot where he thinks he's fouled but it isn't called (which is almost every shot he takes), a foul called against him that he thinks is unjustly called (which is over half his fouls) -- and he gets that pained expression that is his default look.

Karl has tried to be charitable about it and say that it's because he wants to win and hates losing, but I don't buy it. I don't doubt that Cousins wants to win, but winners play through the calls that don't go their way, and Cousins lets those calls become all-consuming. It's a shame, because he's so talented and a physical marvel.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by steve3344 on Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:47 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:72 is pretty impressive in spite of the exchange rate.

Dboss

dboss,

Ha!  Good one.  Mr. Herky Jerky drives me crazy but we sure could use another ball handler and shooter and Lord Knows he is that.

I watched the GSW-Kings game last night.

21 points by Cousins in the 1st half.  Was hit with his 4th foul in the 3rd and had to sit.  33 points on 12-27, 10 rebs, 3 steals.  He was bring the ball up full court and hitting guys with passes.  He combines the best qualities of Sully's rebounding and inside game and the best qualities of Kelly's outside shooting and big man ball handling.  He can even hit fritos.  In an era where centers can't hit shots from further than 8-10' he was 7-9 from the line and 2-6 from 3.  We would kill for Sully to hit 33% from 3.  He got T'd up.  He is leading the league with 78 T's and 10 ejections.  10 ejections in 37 games.  That's the down side, but if he is on the court he is one of the best players on the court unless he's playing GSW and even then he's one of the top 2 or 3 and GSW is an incredibly talent-loaded team.  How to tame his inability to communicate with the refs without pissing them off, is the question.  33 points in 30 minutes.  Not too shabby.  His skill sets are off the charts for a big.  Off. The.  Charts.  He really can do it all.  Fortunately/unfortunately, depending upon how you choose to look at it, Willie Cauley-Stein's having "sickle cell trait", which limits endurance, might put him on the block before Cousins.  Stein has talent, not as much nor as broad as Cousins but talent, but if he can't play hard for 25-30 minutes that will severely limit his career and therefore might be more expendable to them (and less appealing to us.  We need a starter who can go 30 mpg at a high level).

Rondo with 12 assists, 2-8 from the field.  In other words, typical Rondo.  He made sure he got the stats he cares about.

Curry was 38 points on 12-21.  8-14 from 3.  8-for-14.  11 assists and 4 TOs put him right up there with Rondo's 12 and 4 and his 6 rebounds beat Rondo's 3.  Watching Curry is something else.  I have watched one or two pretty good shooters over the decades and I've never seen anybody like him.  All he needs is a fraction of a second and the barest sliver of daylight.  I have never seen a better, quicker, more accurate shooter from any range than him.


bob


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16 techs gets you suspended for a game. 78 techs in 37 games (over 2 per game) would get him thrown out of every game. Even games he was suspended for!

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:04 pm

Outside wrote:
bobheckler wrote:He got T'd up.  He is leading the league with 78 T's and 10 ejections.  10 ejections in 37 games.
Not sure where you got those stats, but I'll go out on a limb and say they're for more than just this season. Getting 78 techs and 10 ejections in 37 games would be quite an achievement.

The GS broadcast analyst, Jim Barnett, commented several times prior to that fourth foul that Cousins wasn't complaining as much as usual, but I thought he was. Every little thing that doesn't go his way -- a shot where he thinks he's fouled but it isn't called (which is almost every shot he takes), a foul called against him that he thinks is unjustly called (which is over half his fouls) -- and he gets that pained expression that is his default look.

Karl has tried to be charitable about it and say that it's because he wants to win and hates losing, but I don't buy it. I don't doubt that Cousins wants to win, but winners play through the calls that don't go their way, and Cousins lets those calls become all-consuming. It's a shame, because he's so talented and a physical marvel.


outside and Steve,

I got those stats from what they put up on the screen during the game.  I assumed, incorrectly probably now that you guys point it out, those might be this year alone and not career numbers.


Here are up-to-date stats for this season.  He's 3rd in Ts behind Draymond Green and Kyle Lowry, tied with DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin and Marcus Morris. He has been ejected only once, and that ties him with a bunch of players. Lowry leads the pack with 2 ejections.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls


Sorry for the confusion.


bob


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:04 pm

There is no question about His skills. Are you comfortable with his character?

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:01 pm

I would like to know what the consensus of the players around the league, that have played with him, is in regards to his character.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:23 pm

dboss wrote:There is no question about His skills.  Are you comfortable with his character?

Dboss

Dboss,

Dennis Johnson was considered a trouble maker when he came here too.  Kermit Washington was radioactive.  Some of Cousins' character issues are his.  Some of them stem, no doubt, from NEVER playing in a playoff series.  Imagine Paul Pierce, with his competitiveness, NEVER playing in a playoff game for as many years as Boogie.  He'd have left.

We need a serious upgrade in talent.  We also need a starting center.  He fills both needs.

Yeah, I'd roll the dice.  If it doesn't work out he will still be an asset in high demand and we'd be able to get quality for him.  Danny's problem is that he has a lot of good pieces but damn few great ones, for playing or trading.  Boogie would be a great piece.

And the Boston Celtics organization and Brad Stevens are no Sacramento Kings.


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:43 pm

bobheckler wrote:We need a serious upgrade in talent.  We also need a starting center.  He fills both needs.

Yeah, I'd roll the dice.  If it doesn't work out he will still be an asset in high demand and we'd be able to get quality for him.  Danny's problem is that he has a lot of good pieces but damn few great ones, for playing or trading.  Boogie would be a great piece.

And the Boston Celtics organization and Brad Stevens are no Sacramento Kings.
That's a fair opinion. Despite what I said earlier, I go back and forth regarding Cousins. Considering that the Celtics primary need is getting at least a couple of great players to go with their existing good ones, and that opportunities to get great players are few, yeah, I'd roll the dice, too. Cross my fingers, hold my breath, say a prayer, and roll the dice.

Get his head on straight, and he's on a par with Anthony Davis. That kind of talent is rare.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:53 pm

Bob,

No worries about the stats thing. I got a smile out of it. You normally provide relevant and accurate information, so this just gave us a chance to poke you in the ribs. Feel free to do the same the next time I screw up.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:59 pm

Bob

I am not sure about him. I still have my doubts. DJ came having won a championship and I do not see the trade the same because Cousin would require significant assets. Not the same as DJ.

I would probably vote no because unless you think Danny is lying.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:34 pm

Outside wrote:Bob,

No worries about the stats thing. I got a smile out of it. You normally provide relevant and accurate information, so this just gave us a chance to poke you in the ribs. Feel free to do the same the next time I screw up.


Outside,

A poke in the ribs is better than a sharp stick in the eye.


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:56 pm

dboss wrote:Bob

I am not sure about him.  I still have my doubts.  DJ came having won a championship and I do not see the trade the same because Cousin would require significant assets.  Not the same as DJ.

I would probably vote no because unless you think Danny is lying.

Dboss



Dboss,

Let me start with the easy one: I ALWAYS assume Danny is lying when it comes to player personnel. In fact, disinformation is his stock-and-trade.

As far as Cousins goes, yes, it would take significant assets. With very few exceptions we don't have any assets I would consider too significant to give up for one of the top players in the league at his position, a position we desperately need filled. None of our current roster will ever be one of the best at his position, except possibly Jae. Rule 1 of trading: whomever gets the best player in the trade wins. With the POSSIBLE exception of Jae anybody and everybody we would give up would mean we won. And Cousins would be eminently tradeable if that turns out to be wrong. How many players besides Jae, Bradley and Thomas are hot, desirable trade baits, and none of those three are as hot as Boogie?

You could say getting the #2 pick in the draft (assuming LA catches Bkln and the Pingpong Gods smile upon us) is a significant asset, but that's what Philly thought about Evan Turner, who can't even start on our mediocre team.


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:28 pm

Only trades and free agency give promise of immediate help. Draft picks , especially when they are only 19 or 20 year olds , take some time to ripen on the vine. So the big question is whether Danny is shooting for a short term or long term roster makeover. The next 5 or 6 months will tell the story.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:32 pm

swish wrote:Only trades and free agency give promise of immediate help. Draft picks , especially when they are only 19 or 20 year olds , take some time to ripen on the vine. So the big question is whether Danny is shooting for a short term or long term roster makeover. The next 5 or 6 months will tell the story.

 swish


Swish,

Excellent, although I think 7 months (after free agents can be signed in July) might be more likely.


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:49 pm

Bob

You are right. 7 is the magic number.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:33 pm

Bob

Not sure about him not sure the Kings want to move him, not sure he fits the pacee and space game and not sure about Danny.

And not sure where the draft picks will land.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:57 pm

Celtics are 2-9 when IT scores 24 or more points in a game.

This was mentioned during last night's telecast

What should we make of this key metric?

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:10 pm

Therefore they are 17-10 when he scores less than 24. Take him out of the game when he reaches 23 points.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:24 pm

swish wrote:Therefore they are 17-10 when he scores less than 24. Take him out of the game when he reaches 23 points.

swish


swish,

Good one.

Patient:  "Doctor, my arm hurts everytime I raise it!".
Doctor:  "So don't raise it".

Smile


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Ktronic1 on Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:40 am

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:Bob

I am not sure about him.  I still have my doubts.  DJ came having won a championship and I do not see the trade the same because Cousin would require significant assets.  Not the same as DJ.

I would probably vote no because unless you think Danny is lying.

Dboss



Dboss,I

Let me start with the easy one:  I ALWAYS assume Danny is lying when it comes to player personnel.  In fact, disinformation is his stock-and-trade.

As far as Cousins goes, yes, it would take significant assets.  With very few exceptions we don't have any assets I would consider too significant to give up for one of the top players in the league at his position, a position we desperately need filled.  None of our current roster will ever be one of the best at his position, except possibly Jae.  Rule 1 of trading:  whomever gets the best player in the trade wins.  With the POSSIBLE exception of Jae anybody and everybody we would give up would mean we won.  And Cousins would be eminently tradeable if that turns out to be wrong.  How many players besides Jae, Bradley and Thomas are hot, desirable trade baits, and none of those three are as hot as Boogie?

You could say getting the #2 pick in the draft (assuming LA catches Bkln and the Pingpong Gods smile upon us) is a significant asset, but that's what Philly thought about Evan Turner, who can't even start on our mediocre team.


bob.
I would take my chances on Cousins as well. All around I think he is better than Davis and getting him along with one more potential all star would catapult us into legitimate contenders.
Players I would like to stay who I consider untouchable- Jae, IT, and Smart. Everyone else is available and unfortunately for us to pull off a blockbuster one of my 3 untouchables will probably be a part of it.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:47 am

Ktronic1 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:Bob

I am not sure about him.  I still have my doubts.  DJ came having won a championship and I do not see the trade the same because Cousin would require significant assets.  Not the same as DJ.

I would probably vote no because unless you think Danny is lying.

Dboss



Dboss,I

Let me start with the easy one:  I ALWAYS assume Danny is lying when it comes to player personnel.  In fact, disinformation is his stock-and-trade.

As far as Cousins goes, yes, it would take significant assets.  With very few exceptions we don't have any assets I would consider too significant to give up for one of the top players in the league at his position, a position we desperately need filled.  None of our current roster will ever be one of the best at his position, except possibly Jae.  Rule 1 of trading:  whomever gets the best player in the trade wins.  With the POSSIBLE exception of Jae anybody and everybody we would give up would mean we won.  And Cousins would be eminently tradeable if that turns out to be wrong.  How many players besides Jae, Bradley and Thomas are hot, desirable trade baits, and none of those three are as hot as Boogie?

You could say getting the #2 pick in the draft (assuming LA catches Bkln and the Pingpong Gods smile upon us) is a significant asset, but that's what Philly thought about Evan Turner, who can't even start on our mediocre team.


bob.
I would take my chances on Cousins as well. All around I think he is better than Davis and getting him along with one more potential all star would catapult us into legitimate contenders.
Players I would like to stay who I consider untouchable- Jae, IT, and Smart. Everyone else is available and unfortunately for us to pull off a blockbuster one of my 3 untouchables will probably be a part of it.



For those of you who are wondering how ktronic has over 400 posts credited to him and yet you don't remember ever reading one of his posts, ktronic is a regular-as-clockwork poster on the Game On threads (which means you have not been on the Game On threads). That's where his posting been and now he's sharing his views on more-than-game-play issues.

Welcome to the Main Board, ktronic. Just keep doing what you do on the Game On threads and you'll have plenty of admirers here (I know your opinions on some players already, as I know the opinions of other board members. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I know you'll find some sympathetic ears here).


bob



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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:09 am

Makes me sick the way todays players all hug the opposing players and smile and small talk right after the game....in 80's Bird and Magic just walked away from each other and thats the way it should be.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by worcester on Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:55 am

Who says Boogie is even available? Danny sure has a complicated job.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by steve3344 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:01 pm

worcester wrote:Who says Boogie is even available? Danny sure has a complicated job.

That's why he makes significantly more money than we do.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by worcester on Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:26 pm

Speak for yourself Steve. Today I made $85. I'm looking to bid on the franchise.
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Re: Odds and Ends

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