POST GAME - PHILLY - HOME

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Post by steve3344 Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:36 pm

Okafor shoves heckler to the ground outside club in Boston last night:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/11/26/jahlil-okafor-fights-man-in-boston-video/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

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Post by hawksnestbeach Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:52 pm

Bob, Great roundup, gives a sense of where the team is without Smart. He's the glue IMO, wants to win badly and when he's not hurt, he's a monster. Will he avoid injuries? I worry about that because he's a built like a tank on roller skates. If the Celtics could trade rosters with Philly, would you do it? We got Smart, but they got Okafur, who seems as good as advertised. I'm with Cowens on Porzingas - going to the Knicks, of all places and IT did kick us into a new gear last year. This year, not as much although he is gutsy. Do you think last year's playoffs run helps the team now in any tangible way? I may see it in the players you mention, not being afraid at crunch time. Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Go Celtics! Hawk

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Post by swish Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:36 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob I like IT's effort too, but hes a constant defensive liability, did you ever think that if we didn't acquire IT last year, we might have Porzingis right now?

For 3 or 4 years I've been rooting for the Celtics to be lousy to the point that they would be drafting in the top 5. Being mediocre sure than hell eliminates the opportunity to draft where the cream of the crop is most likely to be available. Having those high picks is yet another vital asset, along with really significant cap space this coming year, that could hasten the return to being a serious contender. Again this year while I am rooting for the team as a whole to fail, I will, with an eye to the future, be rooting for 1 or 2 of the younger players to have banner seasons with the hope that they will be major players in the relatively near future.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:37 pm

hey bobby heckler

That playoff run did Jack shit for this teams development and talent level right now, the extra money the franchise got for 2 home playoff games and acquiring IT only kept us from getting a potential elite big and I think Danny is smart enough to not draft a DAngelo Russel or I sincerely hope so. Besides Porzingis, there was also Okafor, Towns and Myles Turner all who are better than the pathetic white stiffs Z and KO that are still on this roster. This team is at least 3 or 4 years away from contention, acquiring IT not only cost us a legit shot at a franchise big, by the time we are ready to really contend IT will be a beaten up 30 year old that has lost a step. You think hes a bad defender now, wait until 4 years from now....

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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:49 pm

By the way last night was really impressed with size and skill of Okafor, he really has Tim Duncan written all over him and Duncan came out polished after 4 years. This is really Okafors sophmore season and was impressed with the way Sully giving up 4 inches battled him in the paint, leading us with 15 hard earned boards, you could give Z and KO the same minutes as Sully and combined they couldn't come up with 15 rebounds. So sorry Sully isn't at his natural position, I appreciate him fighting his heart out.

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Post by steve3344 Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:01 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jahlil-okafor-s-apparent-street-fight-is-more-proof-of-76ers--flawed-rebuilding-plan-232000319.html

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Post by steve3344 Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:08 am

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20151127_Jahlil_Okafor_caught_on_video_punching_man_in_Boston_street_fight.html

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Post by kdp59 Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:55 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:kdp Zeller, really? I'm so sick of seeing him and KO attempt to defend, futility watching those guys play, well I guess Z is the slightly better defender. Amir much better defender than Z, need him on floor.


well, you can always switch Amir and Zeller if you prefer. I think Zeller brings a bit more on the offensive end while Amir does provide better defense inside.

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Post by kdp59 Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:05 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:By the way last night was really impressed with size and skill of Okafor, he really has Tim Duncan written all over him and Duncan came out polished after 4 years. This is really Okafors sophmore season and was impressed with the way Sully giving up 4 inches battled him in the paint, leading us with 15 hard earned boards, you could give Z and KO the same minutes as Sully and combined they couldn't come up with 15 rebounds. So sorry Sully isn't at his natural position, I appreciate him fighting his heart out.

I think Sully is playing his natural position. with his weight and lack of quickness he will always have to play the bigger/slower other big man. Sully doesn't have the quickness to play a 4 who has more lateral quickness, IMO.

so against Philly, I doubt Sully would have been a good match up against Noel or Covington. Both would have left him in the dust with their quickness advantage.

Sully will have to spend his entire NBA career playing defense against mostly bigger (and slower) big men, I think.


he does seem to be starting to learn how to use his weight and strength to his advantage on the defensive end, though I doubt he'll ever be as effective as say a Wes Unseld.

and do I need to be the one defending Kelly now?

Cool

frankly, I think his defense has improved this year, we can all see it. Though he'll NEVER be an elite defender for sure. Trouble with Kelly is , as his defense has improved, his offense seems to be getting worst.

and I like Zeller...but since my avatar is Greg Kite, that would make sense, right!
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Post by bobheckler Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:23 am

kdp59 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:By the way last night was really impressed with size and skill of Okafor, he really has Tim Duncan written all over him and Duncan came out polished after 4 years. This is really Okafors sophmore season and was impressed with the way Sully giving up 4 inches battled him in the paint, leading us with 15 hard earned boards, you could give Z and KO the same minutes as Sully and combined they couldn't come up with 15 rebounds. So sorry Sully isn't at his natural position, I appreciate him fighting his heart out.

I think Sully is playing his natural position. with his weight and lack of quickness he will always have to play the bigger/slower other big man. Sully doesn't have the quickness to play a 4 who has more lateral quickness, IMO.

so against Philly, I doubt Sully would have been a good match up against Noel or Covington. Both would have left him in the dust with their quickness advantage.

Sully will have to spend his entire NBA career playing defense against mostly bigger (and slower) big men, I think.


he does seem to be starting to learn how to use his weight and strength to his advantage on the defensive end, though I doubt he'll ever be as effective as say a Wes Unseld.

and do I need to be the one defending Kelly now?

Cool

frankly, I think his defense has improved this year, we can all see it. Though he'll NEVER be an elite defender for sure. Trouble with Kelly is , as his defense has improved, his offense seems to be getting worst.

and I like Zeller...but since my avatar is Greg Kite, that would make sense, right!


cow and kdp,

I think kdp has hit on a good point here.  Sully's strength, if you will, is his strength and weight.  It is not his height, even at 6'9" he's not overly tall for today's 4s, and it certainly is not his footspeed.  He's a bull, he's a party crasher and that's great and we sure need a player like that but you cannot put him against a fleet-of-foot player on defense, they'd eat him alive.  So, who does he play against?  Other bulls.  The extent of the breadth of his game is going against players like LaMarcus Aldridge.  Being assigned to defend Aldridge is quite flattering, and difficult for anybody, but that's about as mobile and flexible a player he can defend against.  

Kelly's game has fallen off the past week or two but then so has the entire team's.  He's a much smarter defender than he has been in the past and I think that is the source of the improvement.  He's not just using his talents now.  He will always have alligator arms, so being that baseline defender that swats shots away and swallows shooters up is just not going to happen.  The difference this year is that he moves his feet a little sooner, and that lets him get to the right spot in time.  He's just starting his 3rd year, the game is slowing down a bit for him and Brad's schemes are burning in a bit more.  He's an odd beast.  He's 7', but he plays defense like a 4 not a 5 and offense more like a 3 than a 4.  Neither fish nor fowl, really.  Some kind of new platypus most people, including me at times, cannot quite figure out.
 
He will never, ever, be this.




As far as whether "we all" can see the improvements in Kelly's defense I think Cowens might reply with something like "what do you mean "we", white man!?".  Kelly is, predominantly, an offense-oriented player.  If he cannot hit his shots his defense will never be good enough to offset that.  The good thing about shooters is, they can shoot.  Kelly's a shooter.  Why he is still rushing his shots is a good question but, eventually, he won't and his natural talent for shooting will stand up.  Right now he is right where he should be, a solid rotation player.  If he ever wants to be a starter, or find himself on the floor against other starters, his shots must start dropping consistently.  The position with the biggest learning curve in the NBA is point guard.  The 2nd longest is center because they are still growing into their bodies and have to get used to the speed, weight and power of NBA centers.  Kelly, because of the things I said above, has multiple learning curves.  He's an offensive facilitator, he's a shooter, he's expected to defend down low against 4s and 5s even as he is still putting on weight and muscle and he has only been in the league for a little over 2 years.


bob


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