Draft Pick #1 - 6

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Post by bobheckler Fri May 06, 2016 12:28 pm

We don't know exactly where this pick will fall, the lottery is on 5/17, but we know we can't drop below #6 (unless Danny trades down).  So, I thought we could start the discussion by talking about the top 6 picks per draftexpress.com.  If there are players that you think should be in the top 6 but aren't as highly regarded by draftexpress as you think they should be, then by all means put them forward yourself.


All measurements are in shoes and will be updated as more complete measurements are taken at the draft combine on 6/13/16.  Videos will be added as they become available.  So, keep checking in on this thread for updates.  Updated stats will be in bold and underlined.



As of 5/6/16 the top 6 picks are:


1.  Brandon Ingram - 6'9 1/2", 196#, 7'3" wingspan, 9'1 1/2" standing reach.  18 years old (19 in September).

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Ingram-7260/


Draft Express scouting videos not available yet.












2.  Ben Simmons - 6'10", 240#, 7'0 1/4" wingspan, 9'0 1/2" standing reach, 7.9% body fat, 37" no step vertical, 41.5" max vertical.  19 years old (20 in July).

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/









3.  Dragan Bender - 7'1", 225#, 7'2" wingspan, 9'3" standing reach, 23.5" no step vertical, 27.5" max vertical.  18 years old (19 in November).

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dragan-Bender-62877/





4.  Jaylen Brown - 6'6 3/4", 222#, 6'11 3/4" (NOT 7'0 1/2") wingspan, 8'6 1/2" (NOT 8'9") standing reach.  19 years old (20 in October).

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jaylen-Brown-72912/



5.  Kris Dunn - 6'4 1/2", 205#, 6'9 1/2" wingspan.  22 years old. 8'4" standing reach. 5.1% body fat.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kris-Dunn-6440/









6.  Jamal Murray - 6'4 1/4", 207#, 6'6 1/2" wingspan, 8'1" standing reach, 7.2% fat, 33 1/2" no step vertical, 39 1/2" max vertical.  19 years old.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jamal-Murray-71441/









bob


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Last edited by bobheckler on Thu May 12, 2016 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dboss Fri May 06, 2016 1:45 pm

You can scratch a few players off this list as far as what Boston needs is concerend

you can begin with Bender

Dunn is a PG so we do not need him
Brown can not shoot so scratch him off

I would keep the rest and add Buddy to the list.  Screw Draft Express.

dboss


Last edited by dboss on Sun May 08, 2016 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by bobheckler Fri May 06, 2016 2:04 pm

Buddy Hield, listed at #7 by draftexpress.

6'5" (NOT 6'4"), 215#, 6'9 1/4" (NOT 6'8 1/2") wingspan.  22 years old.  8'5" standing reach.  6.1% body fat.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Buddy-Hield-58749/



bob


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Last edited by bobheckler on Thu May 12, 2016 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kdp59 Fri May 06, 2016 4:07 pm

I just finished a new top 100 combined ranking from Draft express , Draft net and CBS sports.

my current top 10 is:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Bender
4. Dunn
5. Brown
6. Murrey
7. Buddy Hield
8. Jacob Poeitl
9. Skal Labissiere
10. Domantas Sabonis

I still say after the top two, the next few are bunched together. So a team CAN pick more for need at #3- 8 say.




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Post by bobheckler Fri May 06, 2016 7:08 pm

kdp59 wrote:I just finished a new top 100 combined ranking from Draft express , Draft net and CBS sports.

my current top 10 is:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Bender
4. Dunn
5. Brown
6. Murrey
7. Buddy Hield
8. Jacob Poeitl
9. Skal Labissiere
10. Domantas Sabonis

I still say after the top two, the next few are bunched together. So a team CAN pick more for need at #3- 8 say.






kdp,

You really have Sabonis up to 10? He strikes me as a Tyler Hansbrough type of player, except without Hansbrough's weight (Hansbrough is 250#, while Sabonis is 238#) and is even more alligator-armed than Hansbrough. No outside offense at all. He can muscle college PFs and Cs inside at 6'10", 238# but not the pros. 6'10" 238# are practically SFs nowadays, maybe an inch or two shorter but same weight.


bob


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Post by kdp59 Fri May 06, 2016 7:44 pm

yep, I don't rank 'em just compile the numbers.

draftnet has him at #8 in their top 100
CBS has him at #11
Express has him at 18.

that ties him with Skal for #9 in the combined rankings.

Ellenson is right behind those 2.
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Post by bobheckler Fri May 06, 2016 8:00 pm

kdp59 wrote:yep,  I don't rank 'em just compile the numbers.

draftnet has him at #8 in their top 100
CBS has him at #11
Express has him at 18.

that ties him with Skal for #9 in the combined rankings.

Ellenson is right behind those 2.



kdp,

What do you think of him?


bob

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Post by NYCelt Fri May 06, 2016 8:22 pm

My $.02, without a lot of blah, blah, blah, and in no particular order...

Ingram - Very well could go #1, especially if a team like Philly goes first.
Simmons - Second best talent in the draft overall.
Hield - Could go as high as #3, probably not lower than #5.
Murray - Along with Bender, the riskiest pick in lottery projections.  Can't create his own shot.
Bender - On the Porzingis wave. Unproven against US elite.  Not that strong, poor post moves.
Ellenson - Belongs in top 5 - 6 if looking for that hot-commodity stretch 4. Mobile, long, good post moves.
Dunn - Best PG in the draft, NBA ready game.
Brown - Falling in opinions because of changing jumper form.  Strongest move to basket around.
Poeltl - Strong, fast, hustles, good post moves, 7', is a banger

I currently make the top 6 overall NBA level talents, in order and draft position...

1. Ingram
2. Simmons
3. Hield
4. Dunn
5. Brown
6. (Tie) Poeltl/Ellenson

Subject to revision by draft workouts and taking bong hits on Facebook accounts.
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Post by dboss Fri May 06, 2016 10:19 pm

Not a lot of film on Bender except when he scored 43 against some junior hs players 

Murray on the other hand is the real deal.  

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Post by NYCelt Sat May 07, 2016 12:38 am

I think we have to adopt CBS Sports as a favorite here.

On their mock draft board they have us getting the 1st pick and taking Ingram.

Not sure how they got there, but hope it's one of those wild coincidences we can point back to later.

I was about to delete their app from my phone until next year's NCAA tourney when I saw it.  Now I have to keep the app on my phone!
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Post by arambone Sat May 07, 2016 8:09 am


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Post by kdp59 Sat May 07, 2016 8:23 am

bobheckler wrote:
kdp59 wrote:yep,  I don't rank 'em just compile the numbers.

draftnet has him at #8 in their top 100
CBS has him at #11
Express has him at 18.

that ties him with Skal for #9 in the combined rankings.

Ellenson is right behind those 2.



kdp,

What do you think of him?


bob

.


NYcelt and Dboss  would know more than I about Sabonis or ANY of the players in the draft. I rarely watch college games and certainly am not a scout.

I only know what I read others say about them.

Sorry.

what I have READ is that he always plays hard is an excellent low post player and rebounder. If he is half the player his father was, he'll be a long time NBA player. I compare him to L. Scola .
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Post by bobheckler Sat May 07, 2016 12:43 pm

kdp59 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
kdp59 wrote:yep,  I don't rank 'em just compile the numbers.

draftnet has him at #8 in their top 100
CBS has him at #11
Express has him at 18.

that ties him with Skal for #9 in the combined rankings.

Ellenson is right behind those 2.



kdp,

What do you think of him?


bob

.


NYcelt and Dboss  would know more than I about Sabonis or ANY of the players in the draft. I rarely watch college games and certainly am not a scout.

I only know what I read others say about them.

Sorry.

what I have READ is that he always plays hard is an excellent low post player and rebounder. If he is half the player his father was, he'll be a long time NBA player. I compare him to L. Scola .


kdp,

You're in the same boat I am.

From what I've seen, of the very few college games I've watched (I live in the SF bay area, so Gonzaga is a western team that is on TV a lot out here since they play Stanford and Cal etc) he isn't even half the player his father is. Not even close to half. Not even half of a half. Usually, you can count on the kids of professionals, especially professionals like Arvydas Sabonis, is the IQ. The father had remarkable court vision for a big and had the passing skills to utilize it. Perhaps the only center I can think of, off the top of my head, who had comparable court vision was Bill Walton. Domantas Sabonis doesn't have it. The only thing I can give to him is that he works hard and doesn't shy away from contact, but that's contact against college kids, that's outworking college kids. It's hard to outwork an NBA player, especially if you're down near the end of the bench and everybody is fighting just to keep a nostril above water.

People who watch college sports throughout the year (e.g. NYCelt) have an edge over you and me. I'm starting to go through scouting videos, I've watched every one I've posted so far, but I have to take their words for it. I never got a lot of eyeballs on their games myself.


bob


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Post by RosalieTCeltics Sat May 07, 2016 1:40 pm

Let's jusst trade them all and shoot for the moon and trade for Paul George. Give Larry just about anything he wants to get him. I am wondering if he would pull the trigger if the right trade comes along. I am willing to bet he would go for Avery or Smart, the draft picks or even Jae, even though I really would not want to give him up. Paul George is still young, an exciting player who would look great here!

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Post by worcester Mon May 09, 2016 12:28 am

I am really leery about drafting tall, heavier 18-19 year old players. They are still growing, and playing an 82 game NBA schedule creates dramatic stress on their bone growth plates,which have yet to mature and solidify. Think knee problems here. A tall 20-21 year old who has only played a 32 game max schedule is a much safer bet, or a younger but shorter and lighter player has a better chance of not becoming injury plagued.
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Post by Ktronic1 Mon May 09, 2016 6:17 pm

dboss wrote:You can scratch a few players off this list as far as what Boston needs is concerend

you can begin with Bender

Dunn is a PG so we do not need him
Brown can not shoot so scratch him off

I would keep the rest and add Buddy to the list.  Screw Draft Express.

dboss
Just curious. Why would you scratch Bender?
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Post by cowens/oldschool Mon May 09, 2016 8:29 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:You can scratch a few players off this list as far as what Boston needs is concerend

you can begin with Bender

Dunn is a PG so we do not need him
Brown can not shoot so scratch him off

I would keep the rest and add Buddy to the list.  Screw Draft Express.

dboss
Just curious. Why would you scratch Bender?


Defense

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Post by bobheckler Mon May 09, 2016 10:02 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:You can scratch a few players off this list as far as what Boston needs is concerend

you can begin with Bender

Dunn is a PG so we do not need him
Brown can not shoot so scratch him off

I would keep the rest and add Buddy to the list.  Screw Draft Express.

dboss
Just curious. Why would you scratch Bender?


Defense


Cow,

His perimeter defense is actually pretty good, for a 7'1"er.  He gets muscled inside, because he's still only 225# and 18 years old, but he'll put on muscle.  He could grow another couple of inches too.

All the bruisers you like are at the other end of the draft, the Hammons and such.

Look at it this way, if we draft Bender, that would make Kelly superfluous.

Did that make Bender look any better to you?


bob


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Post by cowens/oldschool Mon May 09, 2016 10:23 pm

bob I really don't know much about him, he doesn't excite me the way Gobert did, but did read he is 220 pounds, I just hope he is not Brad Lohaus or Bargani. There is no stat for toughness, we need toughness and size, so I don't know if we need him....actually we need shooting too. If we select him, would still need a hard hat big for requisite toughness.

Right now I am loving watching Biyambo, already has a double-double, hes not 7 ft or especially athletic, but guy is strong as an ox and will battle, we need a guy like that at 4-5.

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Post by swish Mon May 09, 2016 10:24 pm

Draft the players with the greatest upside. As young Kids their best years are down the road a ways. Go the free agency and trade routes to acquire the established super stars needed for immediate success. Pegging the existing super stars is a lot easier than predicting stardom for a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds - where even the best General Managers of the NBA are dead wrong sometimes.

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Post by bobheckler Tue May 10, 2016 9:31 am

swish wrote:Draft the players with the greatest upside. As young Kids their best years are down the road a ways. Go the free agency and trade routes to acquire the established super stars needed for immediate success. Pegging the existing super stars is a lot easier than predicting stardom for a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds - where even the best General Managers  of the NBA are dead wrong sometimes.

 swish


Swish,

I agree with this approach. Pay what it takes for the proven NBA talent, develop the kids who could become that proven NBA talent alongside them and eventually replace them.

That is essentially what we did the last year and a half. We got IT, Jae and Amir and brought Kelly and Smart off the bench. Sully started because we didn't have a real center to start in front of him.

Danny has done a magnificent job of creating a vast arsenal of tools for this offseason. He has cap space, he draft picks by the bushel, he has decent talent. He doesn't have superior talent but, if he did, then he wouldn't need to trade. All he needs is a break. He needs Sacto to throw up their hands and give up on the "Cousins Experiment" or be willing to move Rudy Gay. He needs Philly to be willing to move one of their bigs (Okafur, Noel, Embiid). He just needs another GM, or two, to decide it's time for a change. If he finds one of them he has the diverse assets that could entice them.

In 1 week from today, we find out what this pick will be.



bob


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Post by worcester Tue May 10, 2016 10:19 am

Bob, You are usually 100% with your comments. Did you really mean to imply that we should look to pick up Rudy Gay? He's soon to be 30. Ten years in the NBA. Lots of miles on those tires. Decent stats but IMHO, missing ganas. His points declined this year even with Rondo as his point guard- not a good sign.

PPG RPG BPG
Season 17.20 6.51 0.73
Career 18.39 5.89 0.82
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Post by bobheckler Tue May 10, 2016 10:46 am

worcester wrote:Bob, You are usually 100% with your comments. Did you really mean to imply that we should look to pick up Rudy Gay? He's soon to be 30. Ten years in the NBA. Lots of miles on those tires. Decent stats but IMHO, missing ganas. His points declined this year even with Rondo as his point guard- not a good sign.

             PPG  RPG  BPG
Season 17.20  6.51  0.73
Career 18.39   5.89  0.82


worcester,

Thank you for your comment about me being usually 100% correct.  That perspective will serve you in good stead in the future.  :-)

I am neither for nor against Gay.  I was using him as an example of a proven NBA talent that would be an upgrade for us.  He took 2 fgas/36mpg fewer last year than the year before.  That is part of the reason why his scoring was down.  Why he took fewer fgas, I do not know.  Cousins took almost a fga more, so maybe that's where some of the shots went.


bob

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Post by arambone Tue May 10, 2016 1:02 pm

New CBS mock has Celtics taking Poeltl at 4. That would be a great pick, even if Bender was on the board.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25582950/nba-mock-draft-2016-lakers-pass-on-ben-simmons-to-take-brandon-ingram-at-no-1

CBS wrote:4. BOSTON CELTICS
Jakob Poeltl, PF, Utah: The Celtics are the team to fall out of the top three here, and get a bit unlucky in the process. However, the team could certainly use a bit more depth inside, and Poeltl could provide that reasonably soon. As a true 7-footer who can run the floor, play in the post, and defend well, he'd be a nice fit early there. Also, his high level basketball IQ would probably fit well with how Brad Stevens wants to run his team. Poeltl might not end up being much more than a solid NBA starter, but in this draft it might make more sense to go for the double than the home run, so to speak, at No. 4.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Tue May 10, 2016 8:01 pm

I didn't see much of Poeltl, but don't think he is much more athletic or skilled than a few of the possible 7 footers that we can pick up later in the draft, we need more shooting and scorers, I would go with Buddy Hield then take a few 7 footers with the later picks.

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