Trade rumor is for Okafor but wouldn't you rather have Saric and Noel?

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Trade rumor is for Okafor but wouldn't you rather have Saric and Noel? Empty Trade rumor is for Okafor but wouldn't you rather have Saric and Noel?

Post by Ram on Mon May 23, 2016 2:47 pm

A lot of insider types are saying the Celtics sending pick #3 to Philly (so they can take Kris Dunn) for Jahil Okafor is a potential win-win for both teams.

Do the Celtics really need Okafor as much as they could use two other Philly guys; local kid Nerlens Noel and Euro forward Dario Saric?

Okafor seems like a bit of a headcase, a bit overweight and he doesn't play great defense despite being very athletically skilled. Don't we have that in Sully? Or if Sully is allowed to walk couldn't we go out and get that in FA to be Al Jefferson if we wanted to and have him be just as productive for the next 2-3 seasons as Okafor?

What the Celtics could really use is a mobile big like Noel who can protect the rim. He was very good in 2014-15 before regressing this year as a poor fit next to Noel with Philly tanking harder than ever. Saric is another thing we need. A stretch 4 who can play some 3 behind Crowder and shoot. He sounds like a better Jerebko. Replacing Jerebko/Amir with these two younger/better players would be something I'd move the #3 pick for. 

Additionally, Philly has a rim-protector in Embiid and a stretch 4 playmaker if they draft Simmons. They would need a 20 point scorer like Okafor can be moving forward more than the C's would.
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Post by Ram on Mon May 23, 2016 2:58 pm

Edit: Meant poor fit next to Okafor of course Smile
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Post by steve3344 on Mon May 23, 2016 3:10 pm

http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/5-reasons-sixers-should-trade-jahlil-okafor

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Post by tjmakz on Mon May 23, 2016 3:37 pm

Ram wrote:A lot of insider types are saying the Celtics sending pick #3 to Philly (so they can take Kris Dunn) for Jahil Okafor is a potential win-win for both teams.

Do the Celtics really need Okafor as much as they could use two other Philly guys; local kid Nerlens Noel and Euro forward Dario Saric?

Okafor seems like a bit of a headcase, a bit overweight and he doesn't play great defense despite being very athletically skilled. Don't we have that in Sully? Or if Sully is allowed to walk couldn't we go out and get that in FA to be Al Jefferson if we wanted to and have him be just as productive for the next 2-3 seasons as Okafor?

What the Celtics could really use is a mobile big like Noel who can protect the rim. He was very good in 2014-15 before regressing this year as a poor fit next to Noel with Philly tanking harder than ever. Saric is another thing we need. A stretch 4 who can play some 3 behind Crowder and shoot. He sounds like a better Jerebko. Replacing Jerebko/Amir with these two younger/better players would be something I'd move the #3 pick for. 

Additionally, Philly has a rim-protector in Embiid and a stretch 4 playmaker if they draft Simmons. They would need a 20 point scorer like Okafor can be moving forward more than the C's would.

I know Simmons has ties to Brown the head coach, but I am not convinced Philly is going to draft Simmons.
It's probable, but Ingram might be a better fit because Saric has a game that is similar to Simmons.
Simmons is a much better athlete but Saric is a much better shooter.

I do think Okafor could be a fit for Boston, I just think it's a little premature for Philly to trade Okafor until they see if Embiid is healthy and plays this year.
I saw Okafor at the draft last year and I stood next to him on the street the day before the draft and he is not overweight.
In HS and early on with Duke, it looked like he had some junk in the trunk.
He was wearing a tight shirt when I met him and he is fit.
The one area that where he surprised me last year was how mobile he was.

Would Boston give up #3 and either #16 or #23 for Okafor?
Would Philly make that trade?
If Philly is impressed with Dunn during workouts, I think Philly would make that trade.
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Post by Ram on Mon May 23, 2016 3:43 pm

Good article thanks for sharing Steve. 

If the consensus is that Noel is not worth a top 5 pick that is great news for us b/c I totally would trade the pick for Noel AND Saric.
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Post by arambone on Mon May 23, 2016 4:11 pm

Noel has one year left on his contract.

I'd rather draft Thon Maker in a heartbeat. Maker is like Saric's game in Noel's body.

I made this highlight video from just one Thon Maker game:

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Post by Ram on Mon May 23, 2016 4:31 pm

Great video

I have been a very vocal Maker fan here and on other sites as well. I have been saying he will likely be gone by 23 and we'll need to use pick 16 on him. 

Since he has guard skills and is projected to have the type of versatility to play all 3 frontcourt positions (if he reaches his ceiling/potential) then I don't see why you can't have him and Noel on the court or even in the same starting lineup together?

You know it is misleading to say Noel has 'one year left on his contract' when we all know rookie contracts contain that 5th year qualifying offer/restricted free agency aspect to them where players rarely leave if their team wants to keep them. Teams either match a 4 year offer sheet (example Utah with Hayward when CHA signed him) or give him a 5 year deal at more money than any other team can (Det w/ Reggie Jackson for example). Very rarely do you have a team so lukewarm on a good but flawed player (Greg Monroe comes to mind) that they play out the one year QO to hit unrestricted free agency.
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Post by Ram on Mon May 23, 2016 4:49 pm

Noel just turned 22 last month and in the previous two seasons, while tanking and playing for one of the most dysfunctional franchises in sports, he put up similar #'s that averaged out to:

30 mins, 10.5 pts, 8.1 rebs, 1.8 asts, 1.8 stls, 1.7 blks and a 15.6 PER and true shooting $ of 51.7%.

Now remember he missed all of his rookie season with an ACL issue and had to get his confidence and game back two years ago and then this year he was a noticeably poor fit alongside Okafor. He has bad hands and shoots only 60% from the line but those can be improved upon whereas he has a lot of skills that are harder to teach (or can't be taught).

I think he is a huge sleeper. Just a 20% improvement on his age 20-21 stats at age 22 playing for a winning team that doesn't employ a space eater like Okafor at center and can make him more comfortable in their offense could result in a 15p-10r-2.5b-2,5a-2s per game big man who shoots 60% from the field, 70% from the line, protects the rim, can follow a stretch 4 to the 3 point line, recover on the pick and role and anchor the middle for years to come.
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Post by willjr on Mon May 23, 2016 5:16 pm

I would be happy with either deal. Any one of the 3 are better than any of the prospective no. 3 picks. A Noel/Saric combo would be a great fit, Okafor is an extremely talented offensive player and in the right environment can be a better than average team defender. I would give up the 3 and 16 for Okafor and hope that Maker is available at 23.
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Post by Ram on Mon May 23, 2016 5:36 pm

willjr wrote:I would be happy with either deal. Any one of the 3 are better than any of the prospective no. 3 picks. A Noel/Saric combo would be a great fit, Okafor is an extremely talented offensive player and in the right environment can be a better than average team defender. I would give up the 3 and 16 for Okafor and hope that Maker is available at 23.

Yeah he might be ok here with those good points you mention.

3 and 16 seems a bit too much for me. He was picked #3 last year and is a year older/closer to FA and had a bunch of dumb character issue things off the court. 

3 and 16 if Philly also gives us pick 24? Maybe.

3, 16 and 35 if Philly also gives us Saric? Almost definitely. 

I think 16 is the pick that could land the C's Maker or maybe another big who slips like Ellenson, Davis, Skal or Chriss. I really wouldn't want to give up the chance at having one of those 5 guys AND the 3rd pick for just Okafor.
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Post by arambone on Mon May 23, 2016 6:36 pm

Ram wrote:Great video

I have been a very vocal Maker fan here and on other sites as well. I have been saying he will likely be gone by 23 and we'll need to use pick 16 on him. 

Since he has guard skills and is projected to have the type of versatility to play all 3 frontcourt positions (if he reaches his ceiling/potential) then I don't see why you can't have him and Noel on the court or even in the same starting lineup together?

You know it is misleading to say Noel has 'one year left on his contract' when we all know rookie contracts contain that 5th year qualifying offer/restricted free agency aspect to them where players rarely leave if their team wants to keep them. Teams either match a 4 year offer sheet (example Utah with Hayward when CHA signed him) or give him a 5 year deal at more money than any other team can (Det w/ Reggie Jackson for example). Very rarely do you have a team so lukewarm on a good but flawed player (Greg Monroe comes to mind) that they play out the one year QO to hit unrestricted free agency.

I don't think Maker will fall to #16 at the end of the day. No freaking way, in my mind.

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Post by willjr on Mon May 23, 2016 7:08 pm

Ram wrote:
willjr wrote:I would be happy with either deal. Any one of the 3 are better than any of the prospective no. 3 picks. A Noel/Saric combo would be a great fit, Okafor is an extremely talented offensive player and in the right environment can be a better than average team defender. I would give up the 3 and 16 for Okafor and hope that Maker is available at 23.

Yeah he might be ok here with those good points you mention.

3 and 16 seems a bit too much for me. He was picked #3 last year and is a year older/closer to FA and had a bunch of dumb character issue things off the court. 

3 and 16 if Philly also gives us pick 24? Maybe.

3, 16 and 35 if Philly also gives us Saric? Almost definitely. 

I think 16 is the pick that could land the C's Maker or maybe another big who slips like Ellenson, Davis, Skal or Chriss. I really wouldn't want to give up the chance at having one of those 5 guys AND the 3rd pick for just Okafor.
You're right Ram. 3&16 is too much Okafor only. As I watch the Maker videos I like him more, especially paired with Okafor. Maker's versatility and motor would be an excellent complement to Okafor' s low post game and still developing interior defense. Imagine the two of them growing together in Brad' s system. I can see 10 years of a frontcourt duo with the potential to dominate. Maybe the 3 and 23 to Philly, using the 16 hopefully for Maker. If the Okafor deal is made, I'd consider moving up from 16 using some 2nd rd picks to grab Maker.
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Post by kdp59 on Mon May 23, 2016 10:31 pm

Maker "falling" to 16?

you have to be higher than that to fall there, don't you?

all the talk of getting Philly more draft picks is wrong to me. the Colangelo's are NOT looking for more draft picks, they are looking for REAL NBA players starting this year. Yes they will make the #1 pick this year, but I doubt they'll want more and more picks now.

If you want Okafor or Noel you better be ready to give up NBA players, IMO.
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Post by bobheckler on Tue May 24, 2016 2:10 pm

kdp59 wrote:Maker "falling" to 16?

you have to be higher than that to fall there, don't you?

all the talk of getting Philly more draft picks is wrong to me. the Colangelo's are NOT looking for more draft picks, they are looking for REAL NBA players starting this year. Yes they will make the #1 pick this year, but I doubt they'll want more and more picks now.

If you want Okafor or Noel you better be ready to give up NBA players, IMO.


kdp,

Excellent points.  You have to be rated higher than 16 first before you can "fall" to 16.

Also, here's an article that supports your 2nd point, courtesy of CSN Philly:

http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/bryan-colangelo-says-process-dead-big-3-definitely-coming-philly


BRYAN COLANGELO SAYS THE PROCESS IS DEAD, BIG 3 DEFINITELY COMING TO PHILLY
By Matt Bowker | CSNPhilly.com May 22, 2016 5:15 PM



Sixers general manager Bryan Colangelo went on SiriusXM Bleacher Report Radio's NBA Sunday Tip on Sunday, and offered some insight into the team's new direction now that he is at the helm.

Avert your eyes, Sam Hinkie and all of his devout followers.

“Everybody is thinking about winning, as opposed to prolonging the rebuilding process," Colangelo said. "We’re really moving from that rebuilding and stripping down to a building process. We’re going to do things that put us in a position to win basketball games more so than collect future assets.”

With that, Colangelo put the final nail in The Process. Three years of dreadful basketball, if you can whatever they played over that span actual basketball, are finally over, according the new Sixers GM.

But putting together a winning team is not an overnight process, no pun intended.

With the first pick in the upcoming draft, the Sixers have the opportunity to start building a winning team.

"We're going to pick a player that we think is the best fit for our team and the best piece for us to build around," Colangelo said. "I'm pretty certain that [Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram]... see this as a pretty good situation to start their NBA career."

With the top pick and other young pieces in place, the Sixers' roster may not look so bad. Especially with the possibilty of Joel Embiid suiting up for the Sixers next season — something that Colangelo is very excited about.

"The big unknown with this organization is [Embiid], who has not played an NBA game," Colangelo said. "He certainly has the skill level, the size, the talent to potentially become a star."

Another way to quickly turn the team around is free agency. Colangelo recognizes the Sixers have the money to lure top free agents to Philadelphia, but in order to get them, the Sixers must prove themselves first.

"I don’t know we’ve got the story to sell one of the key free agents this year in terms of what we want to do. But another year of taking a step forward…I think we’ll have a compelling story to sell to not just one free agent but possibly two and maybe even three — to say ‘Do you want to come in a double-max situation? Or a triple-max situation?’"

Would Colangelo consider pulling a 2010 Miami Heat and signing a Big Three?

"Look at what Miami did when they planned for the Big Three to come there," he said.

That's right, Sixers' fans. A new Big Three is possibly, OK, who are we kidding ourselves, *DEFINITELY* coming to Philadelphia. Get your season tickets now. Start camping out on Broad Street. Name your children Bryan. Winning is back in Philadelphia.



bob


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