I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

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I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by arambone on Tue May 31, 2016 1:08 pm

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems, especially after

1) Brad Stevens gushed to Brown at the Combine about how perfectly he would fit in with the city and the team culture.

2) Celtics drafted Rozier at 16 last year, citing his potential to be a special player, rather than just a role player.

3) Celtics tried furiously to trade up for Justise Winslow, a player similar to Brown. But Brown has a higher upside


Danny and Brad love elite athletes, love high character and work ethic, love maximum versatility, and love guys who can get to the rim on their own. Brown can dribble drive even better than Evan Turner, because of his superior athleticism and strength. Brown, even moreso than Crowder, is a perfect match at SF for our stretch bigs.

Danny's rationale for drafting Brown will be similar, if not identical, to the rationale for drafting Rozier.

Brown, like Rozier, is an underrated shooting talent, and Danny and Brad would rather a 35% type 3 point shooter who brings much more to the table than a 40-45% 3 point shooting specialist.

Jaylen Brown has superstar talent, and I would bet that Danny and Brad think they can bring it out of him, just like with Rozier.



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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by Ram on Tue May 31, 2016 1:29 pm

I could see the Celtics drafting Brown but I'd hope before doing so that he raised his stock in workouts and ALL team scouts (not just ours) are stating that he is solidly in a 'next 5' grouping with Dunn, Hield, Murray and Bender.

Do you have a link for those Stevens comments to him at the combine?

As of right now Brown looks like he might not have the bball IQ, outside shot and work ethic to be a top 10 pick, more of a James Young type 2-3 project. I still doubt he slips past Denver at #7.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by Ram on Tue May 31, 2016 1:38 pm

Too bad these offensive guys Hield and Murray don't play the same defense as Brown or Dunn. If just one of those four guys was equally elite on that other 1/2 of them game they are either average at (Dunn, Hield) or below average at (Murray, Brown) they would be neck and neck with Simmons and Ingram and there would not be a two player tier 1. 

Of those 4 guys I am most nervous about Murray becoming an above average NBA defender. I think Hield will become one, based on his wingspan, work ethic and comments about being a very good defender as a fresh but then being asked to handle all the scoring load (like Harden) and couldn't focus on that part of his game as much. I think the offense will come for Dunn and Brown a little easier than D will for Murray, but they both worry me. 

James Young has defense issues still 2 seasons after he was a one and done entering the draft.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 31, 2016 1:39 pm

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2016/05/20/celtics-choice-buddy-hield-vs-jaylen-brown/



CELTICS CHOICE: BUDDY HIELD VS. JAYLEN BROWN


05.20.16 at 2:10 pm ET


By John Tomase



As the days pass leading up to June’s NBA draft, we want to encourage the debate regarding what the Celtics should do with the No. 3 overall pick. In that spirit, we present, “Celtics choice.”

Today: Using the No. 3 pick on Oklahoma scorer Buddy Hield or Cal forward Jaylen Brown


The case for Hield

Did you watch a second of college basketball this season? Hield was a monster, adding dribble penetration and increased range to his explosive offensive game. He averaged 25 points a game and shot .457 from 3-point territory. His shot chart is off the charts, with above-average production from everywhere on the floor except the left baseline. As a senior, he’s more polished than most of the teens and freshmen coming out this year. And he demonstrated an ability to hit big, clutch shots throughout his senior year, leading the Sooners to the Final Four, where they lost to Villanova, the eventual champs.


The case against Hield

The senior thing actually works against him among NBA types concerned that he’s already at or near his ceiling. There are also legitimate questions about his foot speed and ability to create his own shot at the next level. He’s also considered a subpar defender, though Brad Stevens could change that. The biggest knock on Hield is that he’s a finished product with a not of room to grow, and in the NBA everyone loves the ability to daydream about best-case scenario projections.




The case for Brown

Brown is in many ways the opposite of Hield: He’s a raw athlete with explosive leaping ability, but an unpolished offensive game. The 6-foot-7, 220-pounder could excel in one of Stevens’ small-ball lineups as an undersized but athletic power forward who creates matchup problems on both ends while defending multiple positions. He’s a tremendous finisher on the break and at the rim, and a good rebounder for his size. He averaged 14.6 points and 5.4 rebounds a game as a freshman.


The case against Brown

His offense is limited. He shot just .294 on 3-pointers and .654 on free throws. He also disappeared down the stretch, shooting a combined 5-for-29 in his conference tournament and NCAA tourney games. Cal was a one-and-done against Hawaii in the Big Dance, and Brown finished his career with just four points and two rebounds while committing seven turnovers. He’s got a little bit of Jared Sullinger to his offensive game in that he’ll pound the ball and take contested jumpers.




The verdict

Brown may be more athletic and projectable, but Hield has the potential to be a legit NBA scorer with unlimited range. We’ll take polish over potential.




bob
MY NOTE:  Just one more person's opinion, no better, no worse.  I do like the focus of this discussion, though.  Hield vs Bender or Brown vs Bender is an apples-oranges one.  They are NOT the same, they are NOT similar, they do NOT have similar skill sets nor play the same positions or fill the same holes.  Hield vs Brown, however, are close.  So the question of "which one?" is legit.

arambone's point about Danny coveting Winslow is a good one as well.  Brown is a Winslow-like player, while Hield isn't.  Buddy Buckets has other pluses, but uber-athleticism isn't one of them.  Also, at 6'5" and slow-of-foot, Buddy Hield is a one-position defender while 6'7" Brown could play 2.

On the other hand, if Brown is a rock-pounder on offense that will NOT fit in well with pace-and-space in the half court while Buddy has an almost IT-like feel for the rim.  He's a natural scorer.

Here is the video on Hield's and Brown's weaknesses, which the article didn't include.  We know Brown is an uber-athlete and we know Buddy Buckets can score.  Where they are weak might be the deciding factor.







Lastly, I just did not understand the verdict he expressed.  Brown MAY have more athleticism and project better (aka "potential") but Buddy has the POTENTIAL to be a legit scorer, and he says he'll take polish over potential?  Which one is the polish, per him?  He went through all the trouble of comparing two named players, but then shies away from naming the one he prefers, couching it instead in adjectives.




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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by arambone on Tue May 31, 2016 3:07 pm

Ram wrote:I could see the Celtics drafting Brown but I'd hope before doing so that he raised his stock in workouts and ALL team scouts (not just ours) are stating that he is solidly in a 'next 5' grouping with Dunn, Hield, Murray and Bender.

Do you have a link for those Stevens comments to him at the combine?

As of right now Brown looks like he might not have the bball IQ, outside shot and work ethic to be a top 10 pick, more of a James Young type 2-3 project. I still doubt he slips past Denver at #7.

fyi but Brown has a great work ethic.

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by dboss on Tue May 31, 2016 4:08 pm

If you recall I previously talked a little bit about Jalen.  He played HS ball here in Marietta, GA so I am very familiar with him.  He is a great athlete great character, etc.  There is not questions about that.  he is the proto-type SF that the Celtics are craving to get.

As I mentioned before he cannot hit the broad side of a barn.  He is a horrible 3 point shooter.  His handle is ok but ET has a better handle.

The Celtics must stop drafting players that cannot shoot the rock.  Just stop it already I say.  

Jalen Brown is Jeff Green.

I will continue to promote my # 1 guy Buddy Hield. And my second choice is Jamal Murray.

Any wing that cannot shoot the rock should not be on anyone's radar unless we are looking for a defensive specialist or great ball handler/passer or perhaps a strong rebounder.

You saw what GS did to OKC.?  They are the Gold standard.  Everything else is fake money.

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by tjmakz on Tue May 31, 2016 4:27 pm

Doesn't Boston already have a 6'6"/6'7" SF who is an energy guy and not a very good shooter in Jae Crowder? In today's NBA, I don't see a team taking a SF at #3 who isn't even considered an average shooter.
I seriously doubt Brown will be picked by the Celtics at #3.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:20 am

Early in the draft process I was saying that this draft is a three player draft...with Brown being my choice as that third player.

his lack of improving up his game late in the year, put me off him as that high a prospect.

we DO need someone who can play at the SF position if Turner is let go.

someone else to think about, if his shot can be improved. he brings many things that Danny does like in young prospects to the table for sure.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by cowens/oldschool on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:18 am

If Danny drafts Brown, he must really see huge potential going forward, and must be happy with our backcourt as is, which is still in the young and improving stage. Brown is only a freshman, looks more fluid than Winslow and completely different player than James Young. Has the athleticism and strength to be coached into very good defender. I'm not sold on Jae Crowder, good player hard working player with limited athleticism, not near elite or all star level.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by wideclyde on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:37 am

dboss is 100% correct when he mentions that the Cs can no longer use their highest draft picks for small forwards and guards who cannot shoot.

With the way Stevens wants to play offense a perimeter player who cannot shoot is a liability on the Cs. I just cannot see a non shooting type guy in the draft (at these positions) having enough other skills to help our team immediately. Just think how valuable Turner would be if he could shoot better.

Adding another suspect shooter is not the ideal thought for a number three draft pick for our team if the pick is either a guard or wing player as the team already has plenty of such players.

If the third pick is used to draft a big man then shooting from distance is not quite as important.

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:54 am

wideclyde wrote:dboss is 100% correct when he mentions that the Cs can no longer use their highest draft picks for small forwards and guards who cannot shoot.

With the way Stevens wants to play offense a perimeter player who cannot shoot is a liability on the Cs.  I just cannot see a non shooting type guy in the draft (at these positions) having enough other skills to help our team immediately.  Just think how valuable Turner would be if he could shoot better.

Adding another suspect shooter is not the ideal thought for a number three draft pick for our team if the pick is either a guard or wing player as the team already has plenty of such players.

If the third pick is used to draft a big man then shooting from distance is not quite as important.


Clyde,

I agree with everything you said, except for the last sentence.  Unless you've got a couple of dead-eye assassins for a back court, like GSW has, then everybody needs to be able to shoot from distance, including bigs.  If they can't do it from Day 1 they have to be able to show that they have the stroke and only need some more practice to improve.  Jahlil Okafor was drafted #3, and now he's on the block because his inside-game-only abilities limit the Philly offense and clog up the middle with Noel, who at least plays defense.


bob


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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by NYCelt on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:36 pm

wideclyde wrote:dboss is 100% correct when he mentions that the Cs can no longer use their highest draft picks for small forwards and guards who cannot shoot.

With the way Stevens wants to play offense a perimeter player who cannot shoot is a liability on the Cs.  I just cannot see a non shooting type guy in the draft (at these positions) having enough other skills to help our team immediately.  Just think how valuable Turner would be if he could shoot better.

Adding another suspect shooter is not the ideal thought for a number three draft pick for our team if the pick is either a guard or wing player as the team already has plenty of such players.

If the third pick is used to draft a big man then shooting from distance is not quite as important.

Clyde,

Agreed

Which is why, given the makeup of this draft, with a few higher-end shooters expected to go sooner, and a glut of bigs who appear to be late-round types, I expect to see us go; #3 Wing, #16 Wing, #23 Forward.

I've expressed my own wish list as Hield, Valentine and Stone. Regardless of my favorite prospects, I think it's Wing, Wing, Forward, and you/Danny Ainge can fill in the names.  Providing, of course, we actually keep all three picks.

Regards
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by swish on Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:26 pm

Its a difficult choice to make, made even more difficult by not knowing which positions could-might be filled through free agency. For example: landing Durant or Whiteside through free agency would negate the need to use a high pick on a shooting forward or top notch center. Perhaps putting free agency ahead of the draft would make it easier to determine whether a team should be drafting for short term or long range needs and the position in most need of an upgrade.

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:37 pm

swish wrote:Its a difficult choice to make, made even more difficult by not knowing which positions could-might be filled through free agency. For example: landing Durant or Whiteside through free agency would negate the  need to use a high pick on a shooting forward or top notch center. Perhaps putting free agency ahead of the draft would make it easier to determine whether a team should be drafting for short term or long range needs and the position in most need of an upgrade.

 swish
an easier change and one I think the NBA should make would be to move up the new league year to the day before the draft.

this would allow easier draft day trades for vet players , as the salary cap would be in effect already. I've never understood why it is the way it is now.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by arambone on Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:24 pm

I hadn't read this, but pretty fascinating kid. Captain of the chess club in HS, he's his own agent, and a large and interesting group of advisors.

Jaylen Brown: The 2016 NBA draft’s Renaissance man
Sure to be a lottery pick, Brown is a true original
https://theundefeated.com/features/jaylen-brown-the-2016-nba-drafts-renaissance-man/

Brown is currently taking part in two-a-day solo basketball workouts that begin either at 5:30 a.m. or 6:30 a.m. Why? Shaw told Brown that five-time NBA champion Kobe Bryant used to work out that early. He’s been working out primarily on ball-handling, defense, shooting, transition scenarios and being smarter offensively.

“I feel like nobody else is doing it,” Brown said. “I heard stories that Kobe Bryant wakes up at 4 or 5 and he’s at the gym at 5:30. He’s fully drenched in sweat by 6:30. He hits the weights after at 8 and then he starts practice at 10 back in the gym. All that Kobe has accomplished has been by a relentless work ethic.

“I’m a big believer that it takes 20,000 hours to be great. Kobe put in those hours. I’m trying to chase that model, that representation that Kobe laid out for us. He set a great example and I’m trying to follow.”

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by worcester on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:37 pm

Hmm. Not a great shooter. Needs to improve going to the basket. So much for his offense. Wants to learn to play D. Good size for a SF, but why would we want to take on this project?
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by Ram on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:53 pm

Scary article

The kid sounds just like Rondo, right down to playing chess (Rondo was Connect Four).

Hey, he could very well be the 3rd best player in this draft. But I'd steer clear of defensive minded poor shooters who are too smart for their own good and have a lot of interests beside basketball.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by Ram on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:55 pm

Not hiring your own agent is smart, but having the original Isiah Thomas as your mentor is also bad news. That is a man who has destroyed or exited from in shame every stop he has made since he retired as a player.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by 112288 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:56 pm

Worcester,

My thought exactly, and if he cannot improve his shooting we are in the same spot we were last season, no one to put the ball in the hoop.  

Let us face it, and putting aside trader Ray Allen, when it came crunch time, he was an assassin that ripped the hearts out of our opponents in last minute backbreaking shots!

Need someone to put the ball through the hoop!

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by worcester on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:32 pm

112288, Is it so much to ask for us to get a shooter? Someone who can hit 40%+ from 3 point range? Someone who can make us say, "Yes!" Someone who can connect from outside like Sam Jones, Danny Ainge, Larry Bird, Paul Pierce, Eddie House ...someone. please!
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by 112288 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:50 pm

WORCESTER.................ASK AWAY!

Paul Pierce, Eddie House were backbreakers in 2008! Without their shooting, we lose!

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:05 am

swish wrote:Its a difficult choice to make, made even more difficult by not knowing which positions could-might be filled through free agency. For example: landing Durant or Whiteside through free agency would negate the  need to use a high pick on a shooting forward or top notch center. Perhaps putting free agency ahead of the draft would make it easier to determine whether a team should be drafting for short term or long range needs and the position in most need of an upgrade.

 swish


Swish


I think the Celtics should draft based on needs as if they will not be signing any of the targeted free agents.  We have a chance to grow our own great players if good picks are made.

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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by worcester on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:13 am

Dboss, you are right on. Be patient. Grow with wise draft picks. But perhaps trade this year's #23 to move up in the draft.
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by kdp59 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:35 am

so I will ask, WHO are these shooters that we can draft or trade or sign as a FA this off-season?

I agree we need to improve the outside shooting ,as well as having another go-to scorer on the team ( not always the same thing I will note).

I know some feel that B. Hield could be one , some of us are not so sure about him especially with the #3 pick in any draft. There is also the problem with playing time as the roster stands.

we are not likely to find a Ray Allen type outside scorer later in the draft either.

so again, for those that feel outside shooting is the MAIN thing we need this off-season...who are the guys YOU feel will change that ?
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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:22 pm

I'm not sure this rumor is worth its own thread, most of the stuff we are reading now is bullshit, but IF this is true then either Simmons or Ingram will fall to us at #3. If that's the case then to Hell with Jaylen Brown, take Simmons or Ingram, Danny!

We then take Thon Maker with 16 (or 23) so arambone's head doesn't explode in outrage and AJ Hammons with 31 so Cowens is satisfied that Danny has a new Clydesdale in the stable and this will be the best draft we've had in many years, maybe since Pierce.



http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/06/2016_nba_draft_rumors_philadel_1.html#incart_river_index



2016 NBA Draft rumors: Philadelphia 76ers reportedly considering Jamal Murray with No. 1 pick

Jamal Murray
Jamal Murray (23) (AP Photo/Mark Humphrey)


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com


on June 03, 2016 at 10:10 AM, updated June 03, 2016 at 10:14 AM


Is it possible for Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram to slide to the Boston Celtics at No. 3 in this month's NBA Draft?

Though it would qualify as a surprise if any other player goes in the top two, the Philadelphia 76ers might be considering other candidates at No. 1. Team vice president of player personnel Marc Eversley told the Philadelphia Inquirer's Keith Pompey Thursday that Jamal Murray remains in the mix.

"Jamal Murray, we certainly got a chance to see him a couple of weeks ago," Eversley told Pompey. "He's certainly going to be one of those kids who's going to be in contention for the No. 1 pick.

"We like him a lot. He's going to bring a lot to wherever he goes in the NBA, certainly a talent."

The comment might not mean much, if anything. Teams typically try to keep their feelings close to the vest around this time of year; it's possible Eversley was trying to hide the organization's true belief, or (who knows?) maybe he was asked directly about Murray and didn't want to be rude. Other reports suggest the 76ers are leaning toward Simmons as their pick. They will do their due diligence on other prospects, but it will be a stunner if they choose Murray.

Still, Pompey went on to report that some people within the Sixers organization believe Murray has the most upside of any player in the draft. The report is interesting, and, for Celtics fans, something to keep in mind. Maybe Danny Ainge will get Simmons or Ingram, after all. (But probably not, guys. Don't get your hopes too high.)


bob


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Re: I'll predict it now, Celtics draft Jaylen Brown at 3

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