Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

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Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:39 am

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4723578/jaylen-brown-finding-success-at-the-line-above-the-rim



Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim


http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:17031780


9:26 PM PT



Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer



Boston Celtics rookie Jaylen Brown found one way to ease his struggles with finishing at the rim early in his pro career.

Brown, the No. 3 pick in last month's NBA draft, took a no-look bounce pass from fellow rookie Demetrius Jackson and delivered a rim-rattling one-handed jam over Dallas Mavericks 7-foot-2 center Satnam Singh Bhamara during Boston's 88-82 triumph at Vegas Summer League on Tuesday.

Brown has come just as advertised: exceptionally athletic and equally raw. He's left Celtics fans swooning because of his love for contact and petrified because he's rarely been able to finish those strong drives at the basket.

Through four games, Brown has connected on just 9 of 37 shots, or 24.3 percent. A bone bruise on his right knee forced him to sit out two of the team's three games at the Utah Jazz Summer League, then likely contributed to his stuck-in-the-mud start in Vegas.

His lack of free-throw attempts in the first two Vegas outings left some wondering if his 17-attempt debut in Utah was a mirage. But Brown put together maybe his most encouraging summer performance on Tuesday against the Mavericks, getting to the charity stripe 17 times again as part of a 20-point, 10-rebound, four-steal effort.

Alas, it's that loud baseline dunk that Celtics fans will cling to. The Celtics have lacked that sort of rim-attacking athleticism in recent seasons. Every now and then guard Avery Bradley will show some sneaky hops and big man Kelly Olynyk has maintained that his "bounce is real," but Brown is absolutely fearless going at the basket and seems eager to put unsuspecting big men on a poster.

Clearly Brown's knee is feeling better after he hyperextended it while chasing a loose ball in his debut against the Philadelphia 76ers on July 4. As the Celtics launch into Vegas' playoffs, we'll get a better idea of whether Brown can consistently get to the line like he's shown in half of his appearances this summer.

Consider this: In three games at Vegas summer league, Brown has drawn a shooting foul on 25.5 percent of his plays finished, according to Synergy Sports data. This after getting to the line on 33.3 percent of his plays finished in his lone Utah appearance. For sake of comparison, Jae Crowder led Celtics regulars during the 2015-16 season by drawing fouls on 11.2 percent of plays finished.

Brown, who is shooting 69 percent (29-of-42) from the charity stripe through four summer games, knows he must improve his free-throw accuracy to maximize the whistles he's drawing. And because calls will be harder for a rookie to come by during the regular season, he must improve his shooting from all over the floor. Still, Brown has made an impression on teammates like All-Star point guard Isaiah Thomas.


Jaylen Brown got to the free-throw line 17 times and scored 20 points Tuesday. Bart Young/NBAE via Getty Images


"Athletic," Thomas said when asked what's stood out about Brown while watching him up close at a couple games in Vegas. "The game’s probably coming really fast for him right now. But he’s got the tools to be good. I don’t know if he’ll help us right away, but I know I’m hearing from the coaches and stuff he likes to work. He’s all ears. You need guys like that."


With Evan Turner's departure, the Celtics are thin on the wing behind Crowder. While Terry Rozier -- clearly Boston's most NBA-ready player at summer league -- is ready to vault to a more consistent rotation role, there is an opportunity for someone like Brown to carve out immediate minutes at small forward.

Celtics coach Brad Stevens acknowledges that Brown is still very raw, but likes the potential.

"He’s 19," said Stevens. "The bottom line is I’m watching a lot of the 19 year olds get more comfortable as the games go on, but none of them are knocking people’s socks off right out of the gate. Obviously he’s got a great deal of talent. He’s got a great deal to learn to be effective at this level and we’ll see. Time will tell."

For his part, Brown has repeated that "Rome wasn't built in a day." He's urged patience as he acclimates to the pro level. Celtics brass have maintained that he's a better shooter than what he's shown thus far and, even if that part of his game is slow to develop, he's distinguishing himself with a desire to attack the rim.

Brown will have no choice but to improve at the NBA level. He'll be matched up daily with the likes of Crowder, Bradley and Marcus Smart. They're going to make him work for points in practice. And they'll offer guidance on how to harness his defensive abilities (Brown's four steals in Tuesday's game were encouraging).

"I'm just trying to establish myself, play the game the right way with my teammates, have fun, make the right plays and get adjusted to the pro game," said Brown. "It's different from college. It's a little bit faster, so I'm just trying to get as comfortable as I can on the court."




bob
MY NOTE:  His offense has been, almost exclusively, from the frito line.  Celtics brass (by that I'm taking to mean "Danny") are saying he's a better shooter than we have seen so far.  I have a policy of not believing a word Danny says about players.  I don't believe him when he says they are injured and won't be back for x days and I don't believe him when he says he loves them and would never trade them.  On the other hand, he did reassure us that Avery Bradley was a better shooter than we saw in his rookie year, and he was right.  So, I'm going to take a wait and see approach to Brown.  A little patience is warranted with young players.  Remember, we drafted Joe Johnson and Chauncey Billups and then moved them very early in their careers.  I don't think Johnson was worth his contracts, but he was a quality player we drafted.  Billups, of course, turned into a helluva player.

One thing, though.  If Brown's offensive contributions are going to come from the line, then he needs to shoot a higher percentage on them.  Arambone provided a link that showed the top fta players in the league (Here's one I found.  http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?sort=FTA&dir=1).  The top 15 players or so fall into two categories:  All-Stars (or future All-Stars, like Wiggins) and Hack-a-Players (e.g. Drummond, Jordan, Howard).  Of the All-Stars they all shot over 70% and with only a few exceptions shot over 80%.  So, it's not just ftas but making them pay. Ftas are just opportunities, ftm are payoffs on those opportunities. UNFORTUNATELY, Jaylen Brown only shot 65% from the line at Cal.  If he does nothing else to improve, offensively, this year he needs to up his frito percentage above 75%.



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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:07 pm


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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:12 pm

Jalen has structural issues shooting the ball from the field.  Very awkward shooter.  And he definitely needs to improve from the line.  I think he is shooting 72% from the line so far.

His 3 pt shooting is very poor.

I have been watching him shoot and you can see the flaws including positioning of his feet, stroke and release point.  Maybe those things can be fixed but it does not mean that he will become a good outside shooter.  You either have a shooter's touch or you don't.  If the issues are just mechanics then we should see an improvement.

I am still very much in the prove it to me camp.  

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by arambone on Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:34 pm

Brown didn't shoot 40% from 3 in high school by being a bad shooter.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:47 pm

Bone

Too bad that 40% you mentioned did not transfer to college or thus far into the Summer League.

Of course I could be wrong. maybe i am not really seeing his perfect form. maybe I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. Or maybe what you see is what you get.

By all means I hope i am dead wrong about him. He will get a fair evaluation. At present I do not see a good shooter out there.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:02 pm

High School and college 3s are the same.  NBA is further. So, even if he did shoot 40% in High School (all of TWO years ago!) that doesn't mean he'll shoot that from 3 in the NBA anytime soon.

He was not a good 3pt shooter at Cal.  Maybe the reason why he shot better from 3 in High School was because his defenders were shorter and slower, giving him more open looks (which he will not get in the NBA)?

I'm certainly not ready to close the book on this kid's shooting, not after just a few games of summer league, but he hasn't come out like a house on fire with his shooting.  I think it is fair to say he has not done much to assuage our concerns.


bob


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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by arambone on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:12 pm

Brown shot 34% from 3 in college in conference play. He just got off to a slow start at the beginning of his freshman season. And Brown is the type to think too much at the beginning of his freshman season, or rookie season in the nba.

Jimmy Butler shot 31% from 3 last year, and everybody was dying to get him on the Celtics.

Even if Jaylen Brown only shoots 31% or 33% from NBA 3, so what? As long as he has a decent mid-range jumper, which his high school 3 pt % suggests he will, Brown can be one of the better overall players in the league.

And if he's a career 68% FT shooter rather than 75%, I'm pretty sure the sky won't fall, nor will the universe implode on itself.



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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:14 pm

He will have the summer to work with a shooting coach to tighten some things up.

By pre-season i hope to see some improvement.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by mulcogiseng on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:18 pm

He doesn't have a class load now. His studies will be in the gym getting the reps in. The fact that he can flash brilliance at all right now is great. He doesn't have great form because he hasn't practiced enough with the right coaching. He has the time and the coaching now. If he is hitting 72% of his fta now he will start the season above 75%. That turn around jump shot was a great shot but his form was bad and his choice probably was too but he made it. He runs on confidence right now. Not overly cocky but still full of himself. Rozier talked about it. When the game and his mind slows...Danny went for the home run. Brown is here to replace Pierce on the roster.
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:22 pm

arambone wrote:Brown shot 34% from 3 in college in conference play. He just got off to a slow start at the beginning of his freshman season. And Brown is the type to think too much at the beginning of his freshman season, or rookie season in the nba.

Jimmy Butler shot 31% from 3 last year, and everybody was dying to get him on the Celtics.

Even if Jaylen Brown only shoots 31% or 33% from NBA 3, so what? As long as he has a decent mid-range jumper, which his high school 3 pt % suggests he will, Brown can be one of the better overall players in the league.

And if he's a career 68% FT shooter rather than 75%, I'm pretty sure the sky won't fall, nor will the universe implode on itself.



33% would be the minimum and since he has a skill to get to the line one can only hope for 75% plus in that area.  If he proved to be an unreliable jump shooter teams will sag off of him and that will impact his ability to drive the ball to the hoop.

Everybody but me was dying to get Jimmy and the reason why I did not want to get him is because of his 3 point shooting.  

I hope Brown works out well for the Celtics.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:25 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:He doesn't have a class load now. His studies will be in the gym getting the reps in. The fact that he can flash brilliance at all right now is great. He doesn't have great form because he hasn't practiced enough with the right coaching. He has the time and the coaching now. If he is hitting 72% of his fta now he will start the season above 75%. That turn around jump shot was a great shot but his form was bad and his choice probably was too but he made it. He runs on confidence right now. Not overly cocky but still full of himself. Rozier talked about it. When the game and his mind slows...Danny went for the home run. Brown is here to replace Pierce on the roster.

I think he shot around 64% in college from the line. 72% is not a bad start.
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by arambone on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:31 pm

I've posted this before, but here is how Jaylen's conference play compared to Justise Winslow and Stanley Johnson's conference play as freshmen:

games
Winslow 18
Johnson 18
Brown 18

2pt FGs
Winslow 66-134 53.2%
Johnson 68-142 47.9%
Brown 76-151 50.3%

3pt FGs
Winslow 22-53 41.5%
Johnson 14-48 29.2%
Brown 19-55 34.5%

FTs
Winslow 41-69 59.4%
Johnson 64-79 81.0%
Brown 77-119 65.7%

Points per game
Winslow 13.3
Johnson 13.4
Brown 15.9


You can look at Stanley Johnson's 81% FT shooting and declare his FT shooting was better than Jaylen's, but I'll take 77-119 over 64-79 any day.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by beat on Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:45 pm

bobheckler wrote:High School and college 3s are the same.  NBA is further.  So, even if he did shoot 40% in High School (all of TWO years ago!) that doesn't mean he'll shoot that from 3 in the NBA anytime soon.

He was not a good 3pt shooter at Cal.  Maybe the reason why he shot better from 3 in High School was because his defenders were shorter and slower, giving him more open looks (which he will not get in the NBA)?

I'm certainly not ready to close the book on this kid's shooting, not after just a few games of summer league, but he hasn't come out like a house on fire with his shooting.  I think it is fair to say he has not done much to assuage our concerns.


bob

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HS threes at least in NY are even with the top of the circle.......college treys are about a foot longer (19'9" vs 20'9")

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:10 pm

beat wrote:
bobheckler wrote:High School and college 3s are the same.  NBA is further.  So, even if he did shoot 40% in High School (all of TWO years ago!) that doesn't mean he'll shoot that from 3 in the NBA anytime soon.

He was not a good 3pt shooter at Cal.  Maybe the reason why he shot better from 3 in High School was because his defenders were shorter and slower, giving him more open looks (which he will not get in the NBA)?

I'm certainly not ready to close the book on this kid's shooting, not after just a few games of summer league, but he hasn't come out like a house on fire with his shooting.  I think it is fair to say he has not done much to assuage our concerns.


bob

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HS threes at least in NY are even with the top of the circle.......college treys are about a foot longer (19'9" vs 20'9")

beat



beat,

Good catch.





The 3 Point Line (Arc):
College and High School – the 3 point arc is 19 feet 9 inches, with a straight line extending out 5 feet 3 inches (63 inches) from the baseline.




The 3 Point Line (Arc):
Mens College – the 3 point arc is 20 feet 9 inches.





The 3 Point Line (Arc):
NBA – the 3 point arc is 22 feet to the center of the rim on the sides with a straight line extending out 16 feet 9 inches from the baseline. Past those points the line extends out 23 feet 9 inches from the center of the rim.




bob
MY NOTE:  There appears to be a contradiction here.  It says, under the High School diagram, that High School and College have the same 3pt arc.  Then, on the NCAA Men's graph is says it is different.  ???

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by beat on Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:50 pm

bobheckler wrote:
beat wrote:
bobheckler wrote:High School and college 3s are the same.  NBA is further.  So, even if he did shoot 40% in High School (all of TWO years ago!) that doesn't mean he'll shoot that from 3 in the NBA anytime soon.

He was not a good 3pt shooter at Cal.  Maybe the reason why he shot better from 3 in High School was because his defenders were shorter and slower, giving him more open looks (which he will not get in the NBA)?

I'm certainly not ready to close the book on this kid's shooting, not after just a few games of summer league, but he hasn't come out like a house on fire with his shooting.  I think it is fair to say he has not done much to assuage our concerns.


bob

.

HS threes at least in NY are even with the top of the circle.......college treys are about a foot longer (19'9" vs 20'9")

beat



beat,

Good catch.





The 3 Point Line (Arc):
College and High School – the 3 point arc is 19 feet 9 inches, with a straight line extending out 5 feet 3 inches (63 inches) from the baseline.




The 3 Point Line (Arc):
Mens College – the 3 point arc is 20 feet 9 inches.





The 3 Point Line (Arc):
NBA – the 3 point arc is 22 feet to the center of the rim on the sides with a straight line extending out 16 feet 9 inches from the baseline. Past those points the line extends out 23 feet 9 inches from the center of the rim.




bob
MY NOTE:  There appears to be a contradiction here.  It says, under the High School diagram, that High School and College have the same 3pt arc.  Then, on the NCAA Men's graph is says it is different.  ???

.

Probably the written part was dated a bit cause they use to be the same. Not sure how long ago the college arc was moved out.  just checked.... In 2007, the NCAA lengthened the men's three point distance to 20 feet 9 inches, with the rule coming into effect at the beginning of the 2008–09 season.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by worcester on Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:58 pm

What's great about this site is we are worried about less important things - like Jaylen's ft shooting % - than the effects of the Zika virus, Hillary vs. Trump, or Lyme disease. Such a relief to sweat the small stuff!
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:07 pm

worcester wrote:What's great about this site is we are worried about less important things - like Jaylen's ft shooting % - than the effects of the Zika virus, Hillary vs. Trump, or Lyme disease. Such a relief to sweat the small stuff!


Worcester,

Jaylen Brown's friro shooting isn't important? I might have to reassess our friendship.


bob


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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by worcester on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:40 pm

His friro shooting is unimportant, unlike his frito shooting.
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:53 pm

I like fritos, especially with my homemade clam dip. They have to be scoop fritos, not original.

I thought I should point that out.

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:01 pm

worcester wrote:His friro shooting is unimportant, unlike his frito shooting.


Oh sure, make fun of the mentally handicapped guy. Nice.


bob


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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by jrleftfoot on Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:26 pm

[quote="arambone"]Brown didn't shoot 40% from 3 in high school by being a bad shooter.[/quote         Whichever Barry was commentating tonight said Jaylen has a pretty good stroke, and if there is one thing the Barrys know it is shooting. I want to see him dunk more often , instead of missing layups, but I think he`s going to be a very good player. I`m thinking Dancing Bear and Nader should make the final 15 and may contribute a bit, especially Yabusele. Not a bad rookie class if we keep 3 guys.
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by Rmbone on Fri May 05, 2017 5:07 pm

arambone wrote:Brown didn't shoot 40% from 3 in high school by being a bad shooter.

What's up guys!

My old computer caught a virus from streaming games, and I couldn't remember my password when I got a new computer in Jan-Feb. Finally just made a new account, but I've been keeping tabs on the forum.

You might have seen Jaylen running point guard/forward last night. I found this thread while looking for the thread where I talked about Jaylen's PG ability at 225 lbs.

Anyway, nice to see you guys

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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by mulcogiseng on Fri May 05, 2017 5:16 pm

Welcome back
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by worcester on Fri May 05, 2017 5:43 pm

We missed you. Glad you'll be back for the draft discussions.
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Re: Jaylen Brown finding success at the line, above the rim

Post by bobheckler on Fri May 05, 2017 6:03 pm

Rmbone wrote:
arambone wrote:Brown didn't shoot 40% from 3 in high school by being a bad shooter.

What's up guys!

My old computer caught a virus from streaming games, and I couldn't remember my password when I got a new computer in Jan-Feb. Finally just made a new account, but I've been keeping tabs on the forum.

You might have seen Jaylen running point guard/forward last night. I found this thread while looking for the thread where I talked about Jaylen's PG ability at 225 lbs.

Anyway, nice to see you guys


(a)r(a)mbone,

Welcome back. Was wondering where you disappeared to. Your name came up a few times during Milwaukee games.
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