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Post by 112288 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:46 am


FAST BREAK: CELTICS THREATEN BUT COME UP SHORT AGAINST PISTONS


WEEI

By Logan Mullen

Isaiah Thomas takes it to the basket Wednesday night against Detroit. (Greg M. Cooper/USA Today Sports)

The Celtics pushed and pushed, but couldn’t break through enough to take control, falling to the Pistons at home Wednesday night 121-114.

Defense was lacking throughout the game on both sides, but the Celtics’ defensive woes stood out through the entirety of the game, letting all five of the Pistons’ starters into double figures before the start of the fourth quarter.

“In a game like [Wednesday’s] you’ve got to be even more in their airspace and you’ve got to capitalize even more on the offensive end, otherwise you’re probably in trouble,” said coach Brad Stevens.

Per usual, Isaiah Thomas drove the bus for the Celtics offense, dropping 27 points to go with his four assists. Kelly Olynyk had a solid night of his own, going 3-for-4 from deep and 7-for-9 from the field for 19 points.

Regardless of any Celtics offensive effort, they were lost defensively, getting worked over by whichever member of the Pistons stepped up at a given moment. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope led the charge with 25 points while Tobias Harris put away 21 points. The Pistons shot 55-percent from the field as a team.

All the while, Andre Drummond was a force in the paint, topping off his 20 point performance off with 17 rebounds — eight of which coming on the offensive end.

“They’re a hard team to match up with,” said Stevens. “But again, if you’re playing a team that feels good about themselves, which they do, and is physical, you’ve got to really get in their airspace. And we just didn’t quite do it enough of the time, but I don’t want to take away from their play, their level of play was high tonight”

As has been the story all season, the Celtics could not find a way to grab a rebound, getting outrebounded 51-33. In the early stages of the game, it looked as if rebounding issues would potentially be circumvented, with Amir Johnson grabbing four boards in the first two minutes. But as time went on the Celtics continued to struggle on the glass.

“I think they just wanted it more,” said Avery Bradley. “They played hard the entire game.”

The Celtics never truly went away throughout the game, but never found enough answers on the defensive end to make a series of stops to let them push ahead. They went ahead by one with 7:26 left in the game, but never had the fortitude to push away.
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Post by 112288 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:52 am

When you get out rebounded by 19 rebounds (52/33)  you are going to lose!

NEED A CENTER!

KO > the honeymoon is over, please move him when you can or if you can. He is the oddest player I have come across- Not a center, not a power forward, not a small forward, cannot create his own shot, hesitates before shooting thereby losing an edge on his defender. USELESS!

Oh by the way, we are only 1 game better in the loss column then the NY Knicks!  That is a sobering fact!

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Post by steve3344 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:02 am

When you let your opponent's starters shoot 59% against you, you are gonna lose.

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Post by 112288 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:34 am

Hey Steve,

The team has grown soft. No hard nose defense.

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:54 am

A graphic was put up during the game that said our starting 5 had the 4th best defensive rating in the league.  I think that just got knocked down a few pegs.  As pointed out by Steve their starters shot 59% against us.  Some of that was just unconscious shooting but some of it was just uninspired defense.  We gave up over 30 points in 2 quarters and 28 and 29 in the other two.  That is not good.  Throw in the 42 points that we gave up on Monday in one quarter and that says it wasn't just Detroit with a hot hand.

http://giphy.com/gifs/3o7TKBxTlifcxlxCrS


Worst game by Bradley this year.  He had a couple of late 3s, after the game was already lost, to up his points to 14 but he was 4-14 for the game and 1-8 after 3.  He was 3-6 in the 4th, that's good, but it was too late by then.  His defense?  Kentavious Caldwell-Pope had 25 on 10-17.  He has been one of the best players on our team this year but last night he stunk the place up on both ends.

In fact, ALL 5 DETROIT STARTERS scored over 20 points except for Ish Smith, who had 19.  That means that every other starter's defense sucked except for Isaiah Thomas.  What the Hell does that say?! 

Gary Washburn
@GwashburnGlobe yesterday
Ish Smith had more rebounds tonight than Al Horford. That can't happen. #Celtics #Pistons.

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Jay King
@ByJayKing yesterday
Did Olynyk take a little while to get going this season? "Yeah. I mean, I hadn't played basketball in six months."

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Second high scorer for the Celtics, and the only one who was really helping IT throughout the game on offense, was Kelly.   19 points on 7-9 and 3-4 from 3 in 26 minutes.  If he played like that regularly we'd win a lot of games. He doesn't, of course, but I don't understand the criticism of his game last night.  Overall, yeah, I can see it, but last night he was the only one besides IT that was scoring for us.  Amir had 11 but we all know that's not what his job is.  Most of Bradley's points were unimpactful and the 12 points from Sir Chuck-a-lot were inefficient, to say the least.


Speaking of Marcus Smart, he plays as hard as anybody I've ever seen since Dave Cowens and Dennis Rodman.  I don't think even KG was as reckless with his body as Smart is.  He throws his body around like he could just log onto a phone app and order a brand new one, but he was 4-14 last night.  He just can't wrap his mind around the fact that he cannot shoot.  He hit 2 3s and they went to his head.  He came down the next possession and threw up a heat-check 3 that was a bad miss because he caught the ball while moving and shot.  That's not his game.  He has to be set before he shoots for it to have a chance.  His shooting discipline is NOT good.  He was 2-7 after 3, which I can live with even though it's only 28.5% because of his other contributions, but in the 4th quarter he went 2-7 again.  2-7 after 3 and then 2-8 in just the 4th quarter.  And every single one of his shots, through 3 quarters, were 3s!  Defense?  Fantastic.  Ganas?  By the boatload, but he needs to understand his strengths and weaknesses more clearly and play within them for the good of the team.  




Just keeping stuff like this, Marcus, just keep doing this and leave the scoring to others.  Notice, he started his run from outside the arc.

http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=18176474&endcard=false"


Crowder was 5-15 with Marcus Morris and Tobias Harris taking turns lighting him up.  

Jaylen Brown with 4 minutes.  Not having a #3 pick year, is he?


We took 91 fgas last night.  That's very good.  45, a statistical smidge below 50%, were 3s.  Brad talks about how our game is created from the low blocks and we go inside-out (and Horford is great at that, a real joy to watch his basketball mind work) but that strategy doesn't work well if your perimeter offense is unreliable.  And our perimeter offense is very unreliable.  If Bradley and IT are on, we're fine, but if even one of them is having an off night like Bradley did last night then we've got Sir Chuck-a-lot getting the lion share of the minutes off the bench and that is a recipe for empty possessions if he tries to play the role of scorer instead of floor general (which he is actually getting much better at).  Danny needs to find us a shooter to pair with Smart.  I like Rozier, a lot, but is he a shooter?  Not really, although he can shoot.  We need a cold-blooded shooter.  He doesn't have to be a guard, in fact it would be good if he wasn't so that he wouldn't be sitting Rozier down, but we need someone at the wing position who is an assassin.  Jaylen Brown is not that.  He may be in the future but he isn't now, he is obviously in over his head.  Not surprising, perhaps, he is after all only 1 playing year (plus a couple of handful of pro games) out of High School) but he sure isn't it now and that is our weakness now.  Brown isn't getting minutes, Brad knows why even if we don't, and that's a hole.

I'm afraid this loss will come back to bite us in the ass later this year.  Detroit's a good team but they aren't that good, they aren't 121 points good, especially without Reggie Jackson.



bob


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Post by dboss on Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:57 pm

What may appear as an exercise in not playing any defense can best be understood as follows:

Starting 5 for Detroit scored 20, 21, 20, 25 and 19 points.  They shot a blistering 55% from the field and 45% from behind the arc.  They hit many many contested shots.   Almost all 5 starters with 20 points.  how often does that happen?

The Celtics fought hard all the way through this game but it stayed in the 5-6 point range all night.  

Some key moments included horrible shooting from Crowder and Smart.  4 for 18 from behind the arc is unacceptable.  And in general the Celtics are nothing more and nothing less than a jump shooting tea,.  They took 42 3 point shots last night.  

Although the PF's were pretty even, there were several blatantly bad calls.  Like the missed goal tend on Thomas or the the foul called on Kelly when he is stationary and the guy jumps into him or the double screw up when Drummond is in the post and first pushes Crowder out of bounds and then Rozier gets called for a reach in foul after cleanly swiping the ball out of his hands.

The Celtics also lost the rebounding battle 52 to 33

The Celtics ran into the perfect storm and were subsequently dispatched.

Most teams will not shoot like this against Boston but my main concern remains with the way the offense is running.  Too many jumpers.  

Other observations:

The man bun finnally shot the ball without hesitation.  

Our bench outscored their bench.

The Celtics were outscored in every QTR except for the 4th 30-29

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:21 pm

dboss wrote:What may appear as an exercise in not playing any defense can best be understood as follows:

Starting 5 for Detroit scored 20, 21, 20, 25 and 19 points.  They shot a blistering 55% from the field and 45% from behind the arc.  They hit many many contested shots.   Almost all 5 starters with 20 points.  how often does that happen?

The Celtics fought hard all the way through this game but it stayed in the 5-6 point range all night.  

Some key moments included horrible shooting from Crowder and Smart.  4 for 18 from behind the arc is unacceptable.  And in general the Celtics are nothing more and nothing less than a jump shooting tea,.  They took 42 3 point shots last night.  

Although the PF's were pretty even, there were several blatantly bad calls.  Like the missed goal tend on Thomas or the the foul called on Kelly when he is stationary and the guy jumps into him or the double screw up when Drummond is in the post and first pushes Crowder out of bounds and then Rozier gets called for a reach in foul after cleanly swiping the ball out of his hands.

The Celtics also lost the rebounding battle 52 to 33

The Celtics ran into the perfect storm and were subsequently dispatched.

Most teams will not shoot like this against Boston but my main concern remains with the way the offense is running.  Too many jumpers.  

Other observations:

The man bun finnally shot the ball without hesitation.  

Our bench outscored their bench.

The Celtics were outscored in every QTR except for the 4th 30-29

dboss



dboss,

Not only did Kelly look for his shot, FINALLY!, he was posting people up inside. He might not be strong enough to handle 275# Drummond and others, but he should be able to post up Morris and Harris and Pope, and he did. He also called for the ball low in the game vs the Heat and posted them up well there too (kudos to Smart for some fine entry passes). He pointed out, in last night's post-game presser, that he hasn't played basketball for 6 months. That's a long time away from a game, I don't care what sport you are in.

"The bounce is real", is the marketing slogan for Kelly. The problem with bounces is that what goes up also comes down. We need to see him bounce and stay on the higher level for a few games in a row. If he does, great. If he doesn't, he's gone, especially since he is in his last contract year and they didn't extend him (that might not mean anything, but it does make a difference).


bob


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Post by bobheckler on Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:48 pm

Unfortunately, this didn't count.

Now THIS is what a shooter's touch looks like.  LOL






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Post by 112288 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:35 pm

Bob,

The real reason we gave up large numbers per quarter was that we were out rebounded 53 to 33.

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:16 pm

112288 wrote:Bob,

The real reason we gave up large numbers per quarter was that we were out rebounded 53 to 33.

112288



112288,

We were, but the difference in offensive rebounds was only -4 (13 vs 9). The rest were all defensive boards for them. Defensive boards come from misses by us and good box outs by them. We shot 36% from 3. I know that's a good eFG% but those 27 missed 3s produced rebounds, often long ones that lead to fast breaks. They had 18 fast break points vs 12 for us despite us having 4 more fga. Too much Rondo-ball, walking it up, and too many long rebounds from missed 3s helping them break out.

Just my opinion, of course.


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Post by 112288 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:25 pm

Bob,

True but second chance points are critical as well. We need size!

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:17 pm

112288 wrote:Bob,

True but second chance points are critical as well.  We need size!

112288

112288,

Yes, we do. Size and dead-eye shooting. We have the perimeter defense cold, and we thought we had a go to scorer in Gerald Green, but we need a brute or shot blocker to replace vanilla marshmallow Zeller and someone who lives to score and apparently Green isn't him..


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Post by 112288 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:24 pm

Bob

Agree!

I am starting a new slogan for our complaining................

MAKE THE CELTICS GREAT AGAIN!

LOL

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Post by dboss on Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:28 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:What may appear as an exercise in not playing any defense can best be understood as follows:

Starting 5 for Detroit scored 20, 21, 20, 25 and 19 points.  They shot a blistering 55% from the field and 45% from behind the arc.  They hit many many contested shots.   Almost all 5 starters with 20 points.  how often does that happen?

The Celtics fought hard all the way through this game but it stayed in the 5-6 point range all night.  

Some key moments included horrible shooting from Crowder and Smart.  4 for 18 from behind the arc is unacceptable.  And in general the Celtics are nothing more and nothing less than a jump shooting tea,.  They took 42 3 point shots last night.  

Although the PF's were pretty even, there were several blatantly bad calls.  Like the missed goal tend on Thomas or the the foul called on Kelly when he is stationary and the guy jumps into him or the double screw up when Drummond is in the post and first pushes Crowder out of bounds and then Rozier gets called for a reach in foul after cleanly swiping the ball out of his hands.

The Celtics also lost the rebounding battle 52 to 33

The Celtics ran into the perfect storm and were subsequently dispatched.

Most teams will not shoot like this against Boston but my main concern remains with the way the offense is running.  Too many jumpers.  

Other observations:

The man bun finnally shot the ball without hesitation.  

Our bench outscored their bench.

The Celtics were outscored in every QTR except for the 4th 30-29

dboss



dboss,

Not only did Kelly look for his shot, FINALLY!, he was posting people up inside.  He might not be strong enough to handle 275# Drummond and others, but he should be able to post up Morris and Harris and Pope, and he did.  He also called for the ball low in the game vs the Heat and posted them up well there too (kudos to Smart for some fine entry passes).  He pointed out, in last night's post-game presser, that he hasn't played basketball for 6 months.  That's a long time away from a game, I don't care what sport you are in.

"The bounce is real", is the marketing slogan for Kelly.  The problem with bounces is that what goes up also comes down.  We need to see him bounce and stay on the higher level for a few games in a row.  If he does, great.  If he doesn't, he's gone, especially since he is in his last contract year and they didn't extend him (that might not mean anything, but it does make a difference).


bob


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Yes KO had his best overall game.  There was zero hesitation.  I am beginning to think that KO may be a head case.

This is year 4 and he stills lacks the confidence to go out there and make plays especially on offense.  Until he proves to me that he can play with some level of consistency I cannot honestly say that he is a reliable player on this team.

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Post by swish on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Shades of Jeff Green.

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:32 pm

swish wrote:Shades of Jeff Green.


Dboss and Swish,

Indeed. Jeff Green was a regular starter with starter expectations, though, Kelly is a rotation player except when a starting big is injured. Big difference, no pun intended.


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