Post Game Thread - vs Washington Wizards, Away

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Post by bobheckler Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:36 pm

I missed the first 2 quarters and half of the 3rd, so I can't speak to that game other than the boxscore.

Our defense sucks.  Period.  They shot 57% for the game.  No way that's just because we're missing Bradley, our defensive schemes/rotations aren't working.  The Wizards had 3 30+ point quarters.

Gary Washburn @GwashburnGlobe
about 12 minutes ago
#Celtics were 7-for-17 FG, 1-for-6 in 3pt with 8 TOs in 3Q.
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Mickey, with 6 minutes, played more than Amir.  Amir is showing flashes of his old self but in the games where isn't he just looks like an old self.  I don't know if Danny can trade him with his $12M expiring contract.  Maybe, but I doubt it.

Smart with a very Smart-esque 4-13.  Shall we start to accept that he will never turn into a scorer, and if he will never be a scorer then he will never be a starter, and if he is never going to be a starter then he isn't as valuable as some people think he is?  Defensively, absolutely but if you are getting starter minutes, and he is, then you better deserve them on both sides of the ball.

We just fell apart towards the end.  Our brains shut down.  It was depressing.  Brad is losing this team.  Since he isn't going anywhere, nor should he, Danny has to figure out what to do.


Gary Washburn @GwashburnGlobe
about 9 minutes ago
Smart, Olynyk and Thomas are a combined 3-for-16 from 3pt #Celtics
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Rozier was 1-6.  James Young played 13 minutes and was 1-4.


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900097



bob


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Post by cowens/oldschool Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:44 pm

bob did you see the coaches and Smart shouting at each other on the bench at end of game?

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Post by bobheckler Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:31 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob did you see the coaches and Smart shouting at each other on the bench at end of game?


Cow,

I heard about it from the Wiz announcers but didn't see it myself. I'm sure someone will write about that. People who shoot 4-13 and are the worst shooter in the league shouldn't throw tantrums.


bob

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Post by bobheckler Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:26 pm





bob


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Post by steve3344 Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:26 am

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:bob did you see the coaches and Smart shouting at each other on the bench at end of game?


Cow,

I heard about it from the Wiz announcers but didn't see it myself.  I'm sure someone will write about that.  People who shoot 4-13 and are the worst shooter in the league shouldn't throw tantrums.


bob

.
Smart is 16 for 63 his last six games and 4 for 25 on threes.  Brutal.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:33 am

steve3344 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:bob did you see the coaches and Smart shouting at each other on the bench at end of game?


Cow,

I heard about it from the Wiz announcers but didn't see it myself.  I'm sure someone will write about that.  People who shoot 4-13 and are the worst shooter in the league shouldn't throw tantrums.


bob

.
Smart is 16 for 63 his last six games and 4 for 25 on threes.  Brutal.


he obviously cannot handle the scoring responsibilities of Avery, he was good as a defensive combo guard coming off the bench, now his weaknesses are really being exposed.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:48 am

Anyone see Kelly get dunked on by Wall near the end of game? Hes getting better at positional defense, but can only hide him for so long....hes still KO, one of the softest 7 footers ever.

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Post by steve3344 Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:03 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
steve3344 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:bob did you see the coaches and Smart shouting at each other on the bench at end of game?


Cow,

I heard about it from the Wiz announcers but didn't see it myself.  I'm sure someone will write about that.  People who shoot 4-13 and are the worst shooter in the league shouldn't throw tantrums.


bob

.
Smart is 16 for 63 his last six games and 4 for 25 on threes.  Brutal.


he obviously cannot handle the scoring responsibilities of Avery, he was good as a defensive combo guard coming off the bench, now his weaknesses are really being exposed.
Smart shot 36.7% his rookie season two years ago.  He's shooting 35.8% this year.  And in his first year he was 33.5% on threes and this year he's at 29.2%.  So much for getting better as a shooter.  Ain't happening.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:07 am

so I guess he won't be asking for a max contract

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Post by steve3344 Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:09 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:so I guess he won't be asking for a max contract
He might be asking but he won't get it.

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Post by kdp59 Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:54 am

I couldn't really hear what Smart said in that video, but when the Wizards broadcast replayed the "dustup" it looked pretty severe to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_xc30mmvhA


actually looked like  the Assistant coach  was more the problem to me on a second look.

I believe the coach was Jerome Allen...never heard of him, but I doubt any coach should ever get all Bobby Knight on a pro player
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Post by hawksnestbeach Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:38 am

IMO, our problem is a lack of outstanding available talent at every position. We have a game, but undersized pg, an often-hurt sg, a scrappy but easily distracted sf, no center to speak of, a good but not great pf. I like our coach, but he's trying vainly to force the roster to fit a style. For me, it all comes down to Danny; in recent years he's taken the route of incremental progress so as to avoid the cry of tanking. This contrasts directly with the Philly approach of blowing it up, forgetting the present and thinking 5 years ahead. When I look at the two teams, regardless of record, I have to admit I would trade rosters. The Nets picks may yet prove me wrong and I hope so, but I look at what we have today and wonder who's the cornerstone of the next championship team. (Brown?) I know the argument that by becoming a decent team, by making the playoffs, we're more desirable for FAs, but so far they're not flocking here to play with Kelly, Isaiah, Amir & co. The record so far has not been bad, but only because of Isaiah's heroics - nothing that can be bottled and used later. Hawk

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Post by bobheckler Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:02 am

hawksnestbeach wrote:IMO, our problem is a lack of outstanding available talent at every position. We have a game, but undersized pg, an often-hurt sg, a scrappy but easily distracted sf, no center to speak of, a good but not great pf. I like our coach, but he's trying vainly to force the roster to fit a style. For me, it all comes down to Danny; in recent years he's taken the route of incremental progress so as to avoid the cry of tanking. This contrasts directly with the Philly approach of blowing it up, forgetting the present and thinking 5 years ahead. When I look at the two teams, regardless of record, I have to admit I would trade rosters. The Nets picks may yet prove me  wrong and I hope so, but I look at what we have today and wonder who's the cornerstone of the next championship team. (Brown?) I know the argument that by becoming a decent team, by making the playoffs, we're more desirable for FAs, but so far they're not flocking here to play with Kelly, Isaiah, Amir & co. The record so far has not been bad, but only because of Isaiah's heroics - nothing that can be bottled and used later. Hawk


Hawk,

I think this was a great post. I really do. I think you nailed it. With the exception of IT we are good but not great anywhere. A caveat might be Jaylen Brown. He's only halfway through his rookie year and is only 1 1/2 years out of High School, so his head is exploding. Give him another year or two for the game to slow down and for him to work on his shot in the summer. He may never be a knock-down shooter (although maybe he will, he's already a better shooter from 2 and 3 than Smart. Not that that is saying much).

One of the differences between us and Philly, though, is that a free agent like Al Horford would never go to Philly. That is one of the advantages of NOT tanking, you look like you have something worth going to. We can debate whether Al is worth the money, although he would have gotten that contract from at least one club (Atlanta) and probably others (Houston), but he was considered the #2 free agent last summer after Durant.

The trade deadline is less than 1 month away. We know who Danny wants to trade, he wants to trade expiring contracts like Zeller, Amir and maybe Jerebko (and maybe Kelly) but we shall see.


bob


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Post by hawksnestbeach Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:34 am

Thanks, Bob. I appreciate that we were able to land A.H., and that we've had interesting, often competitive teams to watch the last two years. But I'd gladly give that up for KAT, Embiid, Wiggins, Irving, or Davis, etc. I'll still wear my green jacket even if we go 0-82. Hawk.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:26 am

bobheckler wrote:
hawksnestbeach wrote:IMO, our problem is a lack of outstanding available talent at every position. We have a game, but undersized pg, an often-hurt sg, a scrappy but easily distracted sf, no center to speak of, a good but not great pf. I like our coach, but he's trying vainly to force the roster to fit a style. For me, it all comes down to Danny; in recent years he's taken the route of incremental progress so as to avoid the cry of tanking. This contrasts directly with the Philly approach of blowing it up, forgetting the present and thinking 5 years ahead. When I look at the two teams, regardless of record, I have to admit I would trade rosters. The Nets picks may yet prove me  wrong and I hope so, but I look at what we have today and wonder who's the cornerstone of the next championship team. (Brown?) I know the argument that by becoming a decent team, by making the playoffs, we're more desirable for FAs, but so far they're not flocking here to play with Kelly, Isaiah, Amir & co. The record so far has not been bad, but only because of Isaiah's heroics - nothing that can be bottled and used later. Hawk


Hawk,

I think this was a great post.  I really do.  I think you nailed it.  With the exception of IT we are good but not great anywhere.  A caveat might be Jaylen Brown.  He's only halfway through his rookie year and is only 1 1/2 years out of High School, so his head is exploding.  Give him another year or two for the game to slow down and for him to work on his shot in the summer.  He may never be a knock-down shooter (although maybe he will, he's already a better shooter from 2 and 3 than Smart.  Not that that is saying much).

One of the differences between us and Philly, though, is that a free agent like Al Horford would never go to Philly.  That is one of the advantages of NOT tanking, you look like you have something worth going to.  We can debate whether Al is worth the money, although he would have gotten that contract from at least one club (Atlanta) and probably others (Houston), but he was considered the #2 free agent last summer after Durant.  

The trade deadline is less than 1 month away.  We know who Danny wants to trade, he wants to trade expiring contracts like Zeller, Amir and maybe Jerebko (and maybe Kelly) but we shall see.


bob


.


well its a fact you can build through the draft, 76ers will be fully loaded once Ben Simmons comes back.....if Thunder would have kept Durant, Westbrook and Harden together they would have had a few rings by now.

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Post by bobheckler Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:42 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
hawksnestbeach wrote:IMO, our problem is a lack of outstanding available talent at every position. We have a game, but undersized pg, an often-hurt sg, a scrappy but easily distracted sf, no center to speak of, a good but not great pf. I like our coach, but he's trying vainly to force the roster to fit a style. For me, it all comes down to Danny; in recent years he's taken the route of incremental progress so as to avoid the cry of tanking. This contrasts directly with the Philly approach of blowing it up, forgetting the present and thinking 5 years ahead. When I look at the two teams, regardless of record, I have to admit I would trade rosters. The Nets picks may yet prove me  wrong and I hope so, but I look at what we have today and wonder who's the cornerstone of the next championship team. (Brown?) I know the argument that by becoming a decent team, by making the playoffs, we're more desirable for FAs, but so far they're not flocking here to play with Kelly, Isaiah, Amir & co. The record so far has not been bad, but only because of Isaiah's heroics - nothing that can be bottled and used later. Hawk


Hawk,

I think this was a great post.  I really do.  I think you nailed it.  With the exception of IT we are good but not great anywhere.  A caveat might be Jaylen Brown.  He's only halfway through his rookie year and is only 1 1/2 years out of High School, so his head is exploding.  Give him another year or two for the game to slow down and for him to work on his shot in the summer.  He may never be a knock-down shooter (although maybe he will, he's already a better shooter from 2 and 3 than Smart.  Not that that is saying much).

One of the differences between us and Philly, though, is that a free agent like Al Horford would never go to Philly.  That is one of the advantages of NOT tanking, you look like you have something worth going to.  We can debate whether Al is worth the money, although he would have gotten that contract from at least one club (Atlanta) and probably others (Houston), but he was considered the #2 free agent last summer after Durant.  

The trade deadline is less than 1 month away.  We know who Danny wants to trade, he wants to trade expiring contracts like Zeller, Amir and maybe Jerebko (and maybe Kelly) but we shall see.


bob


.


well its a fact you can build through the draft, 76ers will be fully loaded once Ben Simmons comes back.....if Thunder would have kept Durant, Westbrook and Harden together they would have had a few rings by now.


Cow,

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't have 3 max players on their roster. Maybe that's different now with the salary cap being so high under the new CBA and TV revenues but not back then. Besides, how long do you think it would have been before Harden wanted to be the star of his own team like he is now?

Name one Championship team not named the San Antonio Spurs that built through the draft. The Spurs had TWO #1 picks in Robinson and Duncan and a coach that has been there forever. I suppose Cleveland too, with LeBron and Irving, but you need the #1 pick in a draft where the #1 player is clearly a franchise player. Even then, it took LeBron's emotional need to repair his reputation by going back to Cleveland to make it happen. If LeBron had never left Cleveland they would not have gotten Irving and they would still be stuck somewhere in the middle. I don't think this year is one of those years with a franchise player, although I'm not a college hoop fan.


bob


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Post by mulcogiseng Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:43 am

You make great points Hawk. The one that jumped out for me was your comment on vainly trying to get players to fit into a scheme and stick to that. The problem with focus on combo play is we suffer from combo management. While the NBA is indeed shifting how it plays the game, we suffer because we don't have elite players at all of our positions.

I've been forced to change my opinion of IT because he is so damn good for his size. His play just demands respect and in some cases absolute awe. But he plays hero ball and that can only take a team so far. How would Red have reacted to pointing at the wrist saying its MY time? Even Bird didn't have that kind of ego. Making the transition from a championship team is not easy and I have no problem with how Danny has tried to do that. But he hasn't selected or traded for the best. For years we needed an elite level pass first pg. When he finally made the deal to get Rondo we won a championship. When Rondo got injured and then imploded when handed the keys to the team he did the right thing and got rid of him.
Crowder was considered and afterthought throw in to that trade and surpassed all expectations by being that overachieving kind of player.

At this point I keep AB over Marcus even with the injuries. (After the game I saw that there had been some kind of an issue at the end of the game and Marcus had taken to Twitter to apologise for his unprofessional behavior.) Marcus is a great energy player on the defensive end but how often are the game on threads bemoaning a glaring mistake and his lack of shooting ability?

I was surprised Amir was brought back, Jonas too. But then I was excited about Yabusele and Zizic. I probably valued these Euro rookies too highly but we have to wait until next year to find out because Danny didn't even invite them to training camp to see if they could earn a roster spot.

I'm a little disappointed in Jaylens production. I thought that by now he would be playing 20min a game and averaging 10 and 5 and would be shooting 70% on ftas. But he is only playing 13 min and averaging 5 and 2. He has raised his ft avg to just under 70%. He needs more minutes to develop.

If this team is going to make a better playoff run then in the past two years I say trade Amir to Philly for Noels and whoever else makes the deal work. Get back to playing team defense. Stop relying on a 5'9' pg to play hero ball in the 4th quarter and play a solid 48 minute game of fast paced team basketball. Otherwise its wait till next year.

17goingon18

We are close but no cigars are getting lit this year unless change for the bettere is made.
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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:12 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
hawksnestbeach wrote:IMO, our problem is a lack of outstanding available talent at every position. We have a game, but undersized pg, an often-hurt sg, a scrappy but easily distracted sf, no center to speak of, a good but not great pf. I like our coach, but he's trying vainly to force the roster to fit a style. For me, it all comes down to Danny; in recent years he's taken the route of incremental progress so as to avoid the cry of tanking. This contrasts directly with the Philly approach of blowing it up, forgetting the present and thinking 5 years ahead. When I look at the two teams, regardless of record, I have to admit I would trade rosters. The Nets picks may yet prove me  wrong and I hope so, but I look at what we have today and wonder who's the cornerstone of the next championship team. (Brown?) I know the argument that by becoming a decent team, by making the playoffs, we're more desirable for FAs, but so far they're not flocking here to play with Kelly, Isaiah, Amir & co. The record so far has not been bad, but only because of Isaiah's heroics - nothing that can be bottled and used later. Hawk


Hawk,

I think this was a great post.  I really do.  I think you nailed it.  With the exception of IT we are good but not great anywhere.  A caveat might be Jaylen Brown.  He's only halfway through his rookie year and is only 1 1/2 years out of High School, so his head is exploding.  Give him another year or two for the game to slow down and for him to work on his shot in the summer.  He may never be a knock-down shooter (although maybe he will, he's already a better shooter from 2 and 3 than Smart.  Not that that is saying much).

One of the differences between us and Philly, though, is that a free agent like Al Horford would never go to Philly.  That is one of the advantages of NOT tanking, you look like you have something worth going to.  We can debate whether Al is worth the money, although he would have gotten that contract from at least one club (Atlanta) and probably others (Houston), but he was considered the #2 free agent last summer after Durant.  

The trade deadline is less than 1 month away.  We know who Danny wants to trade, he wants to trade expiring contracts like Zeller, Amir and maybe Jerebko (and maybe Kelly) but we shall see.


bob


.


well its a fact you can build through the draft, 76ers will be fully loaded once Ben Simmons comes back.....if Thunder would have kept Durant, Westbrook and Harden together they would have had a few rings by now.


Cow,

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't have 3 max players on their roster.  Maybe that's different now with the salary cap being so high under the new CBA and TV revenues but not back then.  Besides, how long do you think it would have been before Harden wanted to be the star of his own team like he is now?

Name one Championship team not named the San Antonio Spurs that built through the draft.  The Spurs had TWO #1 picks in Robinson and Duncan and a coach that has been there forever.  I suppose Cleveland too, with LeBron and Irving, but you need the #1 pick in a draft where the #1 player is clearly a franchise player.  Even then, it took LeBron's emotional need to repair his reputation by going back to Cleveland to make it happen.  If LeBron had never left Cleveland they would not have gotten Irving and they would still be stuck somewhere in the middle.  I don't think this year is one of those years with a franchise player, although I'm not a college hoop fan.


bob


.


Golden State, didn't they draft Curry, Thompson and Draymond Green? 76ers and Timberwolves both have very young strong cores going forward.

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