I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

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I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by kdp59 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:08 am

I've wanted him here for about two years now and with all the drama going on with the Bulls now I hope Danny can pounce.

Just saw a video where a Local Chicago sports writer (not a blogger) said Two rotation players and two first including the rights the Nets pick this year would get it done ( In his opinion).

so I think the time to pounce is now. Crowder, Bradley, Amir, Nets pick this draft and our own pick in 2018 for Butler and Gibson.

steep price....yep!!

but it fills all our needs now and Butler is on a good deal for two more full season after this one ( he will opt out of that last year for another max contract).

Gibson is a big time upgrade over Amir even though he is 31 now. he is also an expiring contract and if they both play here as I suspect they would Danny would want to resign him after the season. But only Thomas would be wanting max or near money soon. With Kelly and Smart also needing to be paid as key rotation players.

room for Zizic and Yubusele next year as rookies and we retain the 2018 Nets pick.

I do think that a roster of: ( S or rotation spot)

Horford-S
Zeller-10th?
Kelly-7th
Gibson-S
Jerebko-8th
Mickey
Butler-S
Brown-6th
Green-10th?
Young
Smart-S
Thomas-S
Rozier-9th
Jackson

resign Hunter is we need a 15th spot of wait until March and bring Yabusele over from China.

I think this roster competes with Cleveland in the EC championship

Danny would have about $28M in cap space for next season, so resigning both Gibson and Kelly should be no problem if desired. with Jerebko and Green also FA's that would need to be retained or replaced at fair market deals.

Young and Mickey could be replaced with Zizic and Yabusele.

so we are set up long term here also with our core group.







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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:34 pm

Kdp59

I think Crowder and Bradley and the Nets pick this year and our pick next year and Amir's expiring contract is a boatload for Butler and Gibson.  The Celtics already drafted a player that will be better than Butler and his name is Jalen Brown.  

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by kdp59 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:37 pm

dboss wrote:Kdp59

I think Crowder and Bradley and the Nets pick this year and our pick next year and Amir's expiring contract is a boatload for Butler and Gibson.  The Celtics already drafted a player that will be better than Butler and his name is Jalen Brown.  

Dboss

I agree its a lot.

But I think Butler is worth it myself.

I also believe that Butler, Brown and Smart can all play together for a long time at the 2-3 spots.

Butler and Cousins are the only guys that may be remotely available that truly move the needle for the Celtics and of those two I feel Butler is a better overall option.

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:21 pm

I think the thing that you may be overlooking is that We have Crowder at SF backed up by Brown who can also swing to the 2.  I just don't get the feeling that SG and SF are areas where the Celtics need to upgrade.  Also given the salaries the Celticss are in a  favorable financial position.

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:39 pm

dboss wrote:Kdp59

I think Crowder and Bradley and the Nets pick this year and our pick next year and Amir's expiring contract is a boatload for Butler and Gibson.  The Celtics already drafted a player that will be better than Butler and his name is Jalen Brown.  

Dboss

Totally agree. That trade proposal sounds like Herschel Walker for the world , and , imo, Herschel was way more special than Jimmy Butler.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:43 pm

kdp59 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kdp59

I think Crowder and Bradley and the Nets pick this year and our pick next year and Amir's expiring contract is a boatload for Butler and Gibson.  The Celtics already drafted a player that will be better than Butler and his name is Jalen Brown.  

Dboss

I agree its a lot.

But I think Butler is worth  it myself.

I also believe that Butler, Brown and Smart can all play together for a long time at the 2-3 spots.

Butler and Cousins are the only guys that may be remotely available that truly move the needle for the Celtics and of those two I feel Butler is a better overall option.


I don`t see how Butler, who duplicates 2 or 3 other guys on the Celts roster, although marginally better short term, is a better option than Cousins, a player whose skill set is off the charts compared to our bigs.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:45 pm

Maybe building through the draft, though slower, is a better option.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by 112288 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:51 pm

Jimmy Butler does not solve our problem and is only a small piece in making the Celtics World Champs.

YA NEED A CENTER WHO CAN PROTECT THE RIM AND REBOUND!

You can add as many Jimmy Butlers as you want to the Celtics, ya not going to win a championship without a C.

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:04 pm

112288 wrote:Jimmy Butler does not solve our problem and is only a small piece in making the Celtics  World Champs.

YA NEED A CENTER WHO CAN PROTECT THE RIM AND REBOUND!

You can add as many Jimmy Butlers as you want to the Celtics, ya not going to win a championship without a C.

112288


112288,

The last two World Champion teams did.


bob


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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by wideclyde on Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:41 pm

Butler is a fine player on both ends of the court, but I am not totally sure that he is so much better than Crowder in any ways especially if you compare salaries and the fact that Crowder is great glue guy for our team.

So, trading Crowder alone for him might be a possibility in my eyes, but adding Bradley and a Nets pick is entirely out of the question.

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by kdp59 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:09 pm

I certainly understand why many or most would feel the trade cost too much.

But I disagree that  we have anyone near as good as Butler at the 2-3 right now (though Bradley is closest). Butler being  under contract for a below max deal for two more years is one of the kickers for me.

I feel Butler is one of the top 20 players in the game right now and ay 27YO is right where we need him to be age wise.

I do not think Crowder is near the player Butler is , though I like Crowder a lot.

keeping everyone and both the nets picks may be the best long term move in the end. As long as one of those two picks develop into a player as good  or better than Butler. That is never guaranteed. not to mention it WILL take time.

the problem we have with time, is contracts need to be resigned. IT will want  max or near max money. Bradley will also want high end dollars.

Kelly and Smart will command market deals to stay. All this means that Horfords max deal will come and go with no championship chances, as our young teams develops. That is OK if that what Brad and Danny prefer. I feel they want to be real contenders sooner than 4-5 years from now.

that was my thinking with the original post.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:00 pm

kdp59 wrote:I certainly understand why many or most would feel the trade cost too much.

But I disagree that  we have anyone near as good as Butler at the 2-3 right now (though Bradley is closest). Butler being  under contract for a below max deal for two more years is one of the kickers for me.

I feel Butler is one of the top 20 players in the game right now and ay 27YO is right where we need him to be age wise.

I do not think Crowder is near the player Butler is , though I like Crowder a lot.

keeping everyone and both the nets picks may be the best long term move in the end. As long as one of those two picks develop into a player as good  or better than Butler. That is never guaranteed. not to mention it WILL take time.

the problem we have with time, is contracts need to be resigned. IT will want  max or near max money. Bradley will also want high end dollars.

Kelly and Smart will command market deals to stay. All this means that Horfords max deal will come and go with no championship chances, as our young teams develops. That is OK if that what Brad and Danny prefer. I feel they want to be real contenders sooner than 4-5 years from now.

that was my thinking with the original post.

I see your point of view, but Bradley and Crowder are both slightly younger than Butler. I think the question is not whether a Nets pick develops into a player as good as Butler, but whether Butler contributes more than both those 26 year olds AND a pick who will be under team control into , at least, his mid 20s. I just don`t see it , but maybe my perspective is muddled.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by sinus007 on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:05 am

Hi,
I also think that AB+JC+BKN pick is too much for Butler.
The goal, as far as I understand, to get onto the actual contending level, i.e. be able to beat Lebron & Co. and then compete against Dubs. Subtracting AB and JC by adding JB does not, IMO, get us there. Unless, of course, Smart starts to channel his inner Ray Allen and Brown becomes a second coming of MJ.
The only other thing that'd justify this trade is if Danny has targeted a star FA that would be pulled into Boston by combined gravity of AH+JB during summer, similar to what happened in the summer of 2007.

AK
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:42 am

Since kdp was good enough to start a Jimmy Butler thread I thought I'd just tack this onto it.


https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/01/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_ri.html



Boston Celtics trade rumors: Rival executives believe Jimmy Butler conversations could be reopened with Chicago Bulls




Chicago Bulls forward Jimmy Butler brings the ball up court against the Atlanta Hawks during the first half of an NBA basketball game, Wednesday, Jan. 25, 2017, in Chicago. (AP Photo/Kamil Krzaczynski)


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com


on January 31, 2017 at 5:20 AM



Some rival executives believe the Boston Celtics and Chicago Bulls will reopen discussions about Jimmy Butler prior to next month's trade deadline, the Chicago Tribune's K.C. Johnson reported Monday night.

Late last week, a league source suggested Butler did not appear to be on the trade market --yet. But you can be sure the Celtics are monitoring the situation closely. We're only seven months removed from serious draft-night discussions between the Celtics and Bulls, and Chicago's season is threatening to spin out of control. Given what the Bulls reportedly wanted to target if they had secured a 2016 lottery pick -- point guard Kris Dunn -- they could be excited about all the playmaking talent in the upcoming draft. Courtesy of the Brooklyn Nets, the Celtics will likely end the season with a 25-percent chance of landing the top overall pick.

It would make sense for the Boston and Chicago front offices to talk, but the old caveats still fit. Butler's an All-NBA type player on a bargain contract, and young stars on cheap deals don't change teams very frequently. Even if the Celtics have the type of assets to make a general manager consider bold action, it would take a lot to pry Butler away. As Johnson noted in his story, Boston still has the trade chips Chicago coveted months ago -- but, remember, the two teams never struck a deal then.




bob
MY NOTE:  The Trade Deadline is 2/23, barely over 3 weeks away.  The rumors are going to get hotter and more frequent.  Strap yourselves in, return your tray tables to their fully upright position, etc.  Must suck to be a player on one of Trader Danny's teams that is not untouchable like IT and Horford.

As far as Jimmy Butler is concerned, the situation in Chicago has changed some from last summer.  They thought they might have something there, then.  They had a "small 3", as opposed to a "big 3" with Rondo, DWade and Butler.  That has not worked out well at all.  Rondo will be gone after this year, DWade is on the 15th or 16th hole of his career, so what do they have left to build around the 27 year old Butler?  Unless they sign a veteran free agent everybody will be too old or too young.  Maybe blowing it up for a Nets draft pick might be a good way to hit 'restart' for them.  I would give up the Nets pick this year for Butler.  We don't need Fultz and there are no franchise players that I am aware of in this draft (NYCelt, arambone and kdp would be MUCH better voices on that issue than me).



bob


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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by wideclyde on Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:59 pm

bob,

If you are willing to give Chicago the Nets pick this year, who would you put into the trade to get him?

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by bobheckler on Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:05 pm

wideclyde wrote:bob,

If you are willing to give Chicago the Nets pick this year, who would you put into the trade to get him?


Clyde,

Maybe Avery Bradley and Zeller. I love Bradley but he has injury issues and he only has one year left on his contract and if we have Butler then we can replace Bradley's offense, and then some, and we have Rozier to replace his defense. Zeller and Jerebko would be preferable, but I don't know if they'd go for that.


bob


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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by bobheckler on Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:48 pm

File this under "What you send around, eventually comes around".

This article refers to an article by ESPN writer Ryen Rusillo.

IF this story is true, especially the last sentence, which would be a recent development, then the clock might be ticking on the Chicago Bulls and I'll bet Danny knows it.  




http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244760/Bulls-Threatened-To-Cut-Jimmy-Butlers-Minutes-If-He-Didnt-Sign-Extension-In-2014



Bulls Threatened To Cut Jimmy Butler's Minutes If He Didn't Sign Extension In 2014



FEB 1, 2017 11:28 AM


When Jimmy Butler was eligible for a contract extension in 2014, the Chicago Bulls made him a low offer and threatened to cut his playing time if he didn't accept it.

"Jimmy Butler after his third year, scored about 13 points a game," said Russillo. "He's going to hit, right? Wow. What a great draft pick. This front office has donn a good job here, but he's not a star, so as a restricted free agent we'll offer you an extension. They offered him four years about $44 million, in the forties, pretty good money.

"The way restricted free agency works is you know if you can get there, another team is going to offer you way more than you're probably worth because they don't want the other team to match it.

"So Butler is like, 'look that's a nice offer but I'm not taking it.'

"And then Klay Thompson gets four for $70 million. And if you remember, at the time, people were going 'man, you have to max Klay Thompson?' Because Klay Thompson then, is not who Klay Thompson is today.

"So Butler's like 'I'm going to get my money.'

"And the way I was told the story is that it wasn't the coaching staff, it was someone in the front office went to Jimmy Butler and said 'if you don't sign this extension, we're going to play Tony Snell over you. We are going to give you his minutes and that's going to drop your minutes and numbers down.'

"'And Butler's like, 'are you kidding me? Tony Snell? This dude I killed in practice. That's what you're going to do? You're going to try to depress my market by playing a lesser player more than me?'

Tom Thibodeau refused to follow through with the Bulls' threat and Butler emerged as the Most Improved Player in the NBA. Butler went on to sign a five-year, $95 million contract as a restricted free agent.

"Butler doesn't trust the front office because he feels like they were going to do this to him. And that's why there's always this animosity and that's why his name, even though I could never truly figure out where he's connected other than maybe the Boston rumor or the Minnesota rumor going back to last summer's draft."

Butler shared his mistrust of the Bulls with Dwyane Wade and that has spilled over to Fred Hoiberg as well.



bob


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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by bobheckler on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:04 pm

http://nesn.com/2017/02/nba-rumors-celtics-wont-trade-2017-nets-pick-in-deal-for-jimmy-butler/



NBA Rumors: Celtics Won’t Trade 2017 Nets Pick In Deal For Jimmy Butler



by Ricky Doyle



on Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 1:05PM



The Boston Celtics might not be willing to extend the “Godfather offer” the Chicago Bulls reportedly are looking for in exchange for three-time All-Star Jimmy Butler.

Alex Kennedy ✔ @AlexKennedyNBA Today, a general manager told me he believes the Bulls would accept a "Godfather offer" for Jimmy Butler. But they want a lot (obviously).
2:17 PM - 14 Feb 2017 117
117 Retweets 174
174 likes


Although the Celtics have been linked to Butler in trade rumors for quite a while, and it sounds like the Bulls would consider dealing the 27-year-old if the right deal came along, league sources insisted to the Chicago Tribune that Boston won’t part with this year’s first-round draft pick which the C’s can swap with the Brooklyn Nets.

The Nets have by far the NBA’s worst record, so the pick in question could be the No. 1 overall selection in the 2017 NBA Draft. At the very least, there’s a good chance it’ll be a top-four pick given that No. 4 is the lowest selection the team with the worst record can end up with as part of the NBA draft lottery process.

Now, the Celtics’ apparent unwillingness to trade the 2017 Nets pick doesn’t eliminate them from the Butler sweepstakes, though the Bulls reportedly want a lot in exchange for the talented swingman. The C’s still own the rights to the Nets’ 2018 first-round pick and have several young, talented players on their roster who could be included in a blockbuster deal.

But the 2017 Nets pick figures to be Boston’s most valuable trade chip. While it’s unclear whether the Bulls would trade Butler to the Celtics even if the pick was in play, it’s reasonable to think Chicago would ask for that asset before any of Boston’s other assets, especially since trading away a star player in his prime likely would signify the beginning of a rebuilding process in the Windy City.




bob



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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by 112288 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:36 pm

What Chicago does not realize is with or without Jimmy Butler..............

THEY ARE IN A REBUILDING PROCESS!

Currently they are in no mans land........they have 1 star....1 aging star......the the rest are all middle of the road players.

Let Chicago choke on Jimmy Butler......no one is going to give them a boat load of talent for Jimmy Bultler when there is blood in the water.  Hey who gave us anything for Rondo and the only foolish team to give us a boat load of draft picks was Brooklyn and look where they are now while we feast on their poor judgement.

Don't let the bright lights of maybe going to the finals because of our surge taint our thought process in strengthening our team.....we are still several players including a BIG away.  Next year is the year if any to make strategic moves in the off season via a trade or free agency.  Next year is our year.

On a PS > do not trade Rozier....that kid is going to be great...........you keep him this year which gives you options in the summer draft. You want to draft the #1 point guard or another position.......if a point guard then you can package him in the summer for an upgrade positional player if you chose.

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by dboss on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:08 pm

I like our team and would not make a move for a player that we really do not need. If we were weak at the 2 or 3 I would understand the fascination on getting Butler.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by jrleftfoot on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:33 pm

agree
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by NYCelt on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:48 pm

IMO Chicago has no intention of giving up Butler. I don't recall reading anything that lends any credibility to the rumor.

Also IMO, if it takes our top pick (from the Nets), the price is already too high before you mention any other player. If that pick turns into Fultz, Jackson, Tatum or Ball, we're better off long-term than having Butler. A top four pick this year stands a very good chance of being a better deal for us.

Get one of those four, then take Bradley (sorry Avery) a couple of second rounders, and maybe our first next year and see if we can find that big F/C we need. Bradley's value is probably down, so you might need to throw in someone like Crowder (sorry Jae), just to get any interest. Not certain what big that package might shake loose, but you have to have some kind of decent bait to catch a big fish.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by 112288 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:11 pm

Bring Chandler in for 2 years and let him teach Zizic how to play center while getting some good rebounding and defense from him. In a tight playoff game he could be a stopper that we need.

We can pick him up for next to nothing because of his higher 2 year salary so why spend our player currency foolishly.

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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by dboss on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:38 am

Remember this debate from January 2017 about trading for Butler.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you do not make.

If you recall the Nets pick was at stake and that pick became Jason Tatum and the Sacto pick in 2019.  And Crowder became part of the Kyrie Irving deal.

Here we are around 22 months down the road and Butler is making an ass out of himself.  A horrible self-righteous display at practice.

Thibs is an idiot.  He gave up too much for Butler and now he expects an equal return.

He needs to take the hit and move on.
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:53 am

What a mess!!!
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Re: I still want Jimmy Butler in green.

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