Re: The Ante Zizic Thread

[cowens/oldschool]

bob I don't know how you can state all that without even seeing him play in NBA competition.....looking too much into stats my friend.

[kdp59]

depends on the PLumlee

Mason is a good NBA big man

Miles is a marginal backup

Marshall seems to be end of the bench roster fodder

I hope Zizic can be as good as Mason in time.

[KyleCleric]

If he starts as a rookie, it could be much like what the Bucks did with Maker. 10 to 15 minutes a game, primarily with our best players.

[bobheckler]

Since I've been on the Zizic hype train from the beginning let me just say that Bob, you will be pleasantly surprised. Everything that you think he can do, he can. All those things you have questions about? He will surprise you. As I've said from the beginning, I was hoping he could play behind someone like Amir for a season to learn the NBA game. That might not be the case. He could start but I'd rather see KO come back and start, at least at the beginning of the season. Who really knows what his ceiling is? I just look at his skill set and see how he fits our very real needs. His very real problem will be earning minutes from a coach who does not like to play the young guys and quickly loses patience with rookie mistakes. I'd be very happy to see Ante carve out 20 minutes a game. If Danny clears out all the old deadwood that means we won't have any bigs. If guys aren't brought back and a trade or FA signing doesn't happen, then Zizic and Yabusele are going to have to step up and show that they are ready and force Brad to play them. They are an upgrade over what we had, no two ways about it. But will they make the transition to the NBA and be able to produce? I sure hope so and feel they will not disappoint. They absolutely have to be ready to make their mark by the 2019-20 season when the team should be in place for consistent title runs.

17goingon18

mulcogi,

I certainly hope you are right and I'm just being pessimistic.

I'd be happy with Zizic playing 15mpg this year. Not too much, not throwing him the deep end and making him learn to swim on-the-fly, but enough to learn the right way. Jaylen played 17.1mpg this year and his learning curve was just fine. Some pressure, but not too much, and Jaylen is more talented than Zizic.

If Zizic plays 15mpg, then Al Horford could play 26mpg at center, 6mpg at PF (although it's all the same in Brad's system, a big is a big is a big) and the rest of those few remaining unaccounted for minutes are small-ball. And that's assuming Kelly doesn't come back. If he comes back he could play some minutes at center and that could let Horford play more minutes as PF and he would be very effective there, I believe. Zizic, Horford and Kelly could make for some interesting big lineups. I said that Zizic's ceiling may be the Plumlees. The reason is because I have yet to see Zizic's outside game. In Brad's system, a big that cannot shoot from outside will not get a ton of minutes.


bob


.

[bobheckler]

bob I don't know how you can state all that without even seeing him play in NBA competition.....looking too much into stats my friend.

Cow,

True, but as I said I watched every Zizic highlight there was on youtube all year. They don't put the weak sauce in highlight films, so you have to watch for the dog that doesn't bark. If you don't see any film of him taking outside shots, that tells me he either doesn't take many and/or he doesn't make many. You see him getting fouled and hitting fritos, but his season stats say that he takes 2.8 ftas/game and hits only 64.3% of them. Obviously, they aren't showing the ones he missed and he misses 1 out of 3. Not that good, and the frito line in Europe is 15' away, just like in the NBA. They don't show you how many times he was beat down the court, or blew the pnr defense, only the times he ran the floor and did defend the pnr well.


bob


.

[bobheckler]

depends on the PLumlee

Mason is a good NBA big man

Miles is a marginal backup

Marshall seems to be end of the bench roster fodder

I hope Zizic can be as good as Mason in time.

kdp,

True that, but none of them are on an All-Star appearance trajectory.


bob


.

[mulcogiseng]

bob, what I look for in those videos is what did he do well. what is he consistent at. same thing with Yabusele. With Ante, he is just plain good and aggressive around the rim. He gets rebounds. He gets his own rebound and makes the shot. He intimidates players into changing their shot or pass the ball, often resulting in a to, ( they are highlights afterall lol) He's quick and agile for a big. Not a Dancing Bear, but very serviceable. I think that both he and Guerschon had more developed offensive games than Jaylen, who is much more athletic. With the way Brown progressed at the end of the year and in the playoffs, that might not be true now but we have two accomplished bigs coming in each with pro experience.

With Yabusele, he gets his shot at the arc or he can dribble and shoot or go to the rim. For a big he is really amazing and he has so much upside because of how varied his game is. Once he gets established in the post he won't be moved and he has those quick feet. Horford is going to be a big influence on both of these kids.

Jaylen's learning curve was fine but he should have played more. His average is what it is because of those games that he started. He really maintained a good attitude during the time when he wasn't getting on the floor much. He was ready when his number got called but he still has so far to go His peak is higher than Y or Z but when I think of all these young guys learning to play the right way together, what was that about drool factor? lol We are in the clear second tier right now. We will move up next year.

Don't be so pessimistic, only some times. lol

[bobheckler]

bob, what I look for in those videos is what did he do well. what is he consistent at. same thing with Yabusele. With Ante, he is just plain good and aggressive around the rim. He gets rebounds. He gets his own rebound and makes the shot. He intimidates players into changing their shot or pass the ball, often resulting in a to, ( they are highlights afterall lol) He's quick and agile for a big. Not a Dancing Bear, but very serviceable. I think that both he and Guerschon had more developed offensive games than Jaylen, who is much more athletic. With the way Brown progressed at the end of the year and in the playoffs, that might not be true now but we have two accomplished bigs coming in each with pro experience.

With Yabusele, he gets his shot at the arc or he can dribble and shoot or go to the rim. For a big he is really amazing and he has so much upside because of how varied his game is. Once he gets established in the post he won't be moved and he has those quick feet. Horford is going to be a big influence on both of these kids.

Jaylen's learning curve was fine but he should have played more. His average is what it is because of those games that he started. He really maintained a good attitude during the time when he wasn't getting on the floor much. He was ready when his number got called but he still has so far to go His peak is higher than Y or Z but when I think of all these young guys learning to play the right way together, what was that about drool factor? lol We are in the clear second tier right now. We will move up next year.

Don't be so pessimistic, only some times. lol

mulcogi,

If his peak is higher than Y or Z does that make him the X factor?


bob


.

[mulcogiseng]

[bobheckler]

bob


.

[bobheckler]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/nba_notes_big_strides_by_ante_zizic_in_euroleague_should_whet_appetite_of



NBA notes: Big strides by Ante Zizic in EuroLeague should whet appetite of Celtics fans



Mark Murphy


Sunday, July 02, 2017



Credit: Jim Michaud
AN ANSWER ON THE GLASS? Ante Zizic towels off during Celtics minicamp yesterday in Waltham. Staff photo by Jim Michaud



Ante Zizic made more than a geographical leap when, in midseason he left Cibona of the Adriatic League for the up-and-coming Darussafaka Dogus, an Istanbul-based team in the Turkish League and, of particular value, the EuroLeague.

The learning curve was cliff-like, and the talent tough enough to knock the young Celtics prospect around mercilessly in his first practices and games. His new coach was a man of not only prime EuroLeague accomplishments but also a short, lively run in the NBA with Cleveland and LeBron James — David Blatt.

Blatt in turn had seen Zizic for the first time at the age of 16 in one of his camps as then-head coach of Maccabi Tel Aviv. The kid was tall, raw-boned, and kept picking himself off the floor after each hard knock.

That’s the reaction Blatt saw again last winter from the now-20-year-old center.

“That’s why I wanted to get him this year,” Blatt said of Zizic’s growing reputation as one of the best rebounding big men in Europe. “Despite getting taken to the floor, he kicked around and kept coming at you.”

The longer Zizic played on the accelerated EuroLeague schedule, the more secure he became in the paint, at one stage grabbing 10 rebounds and scoring nine points in a Feb. 24 loss to Real Madrid.

Is this the work of one of the better rebounders in Europe? Blatt won’t sign on just yet.

“I wouldn’t say better, but he more than held his own,” Blatt said. “That bodes well because that’s how he’s going to have to impact the game once he makes the NBA.

“He’s a good athlete, not a great athlete, but he has a nose for the ball and absolutely no fear. He’ll physically battle with anyone.”

Zizic is scheduled to make his Celtics debut tomorrow against an interesting Philadelphia team in the first game of the Salt Lake City NBA Summer League, though a truly good potential test — center Joel Embiid — isn’t on the roster.

Over the course of the next three weeks in Salt Lake City then in Las Vegas, Zizic’s rabidly curious Celtics public will get its first prolonged look at the 7-footer’s renowned competitive energy. Right now that’s probably his readiest ability.

“He has a terrific motor,” Blatt said. “He’s a great runner for a big man. What you get from him is all-out effort. He’s not going to fail from a lack of effort.”

But Blatt again demurs when asked if Zizic is NBA-ready.

“He still has a ways to go,” Blatt said. “This was really his only season of high-level experience. He has a lot of growing and developing to do. He has to work on his post game, and he has to become a lot more accustomed to NBA terminology.

“But if I had to bet on a kid who has this kind of willingness to learn and be patient and work, I would bet on him.”

Don’t expect a typical European big man, for example. Zizic is here for his rebounding and active game, not his shooting.

“He didn’t get to shoot it a lot this year,” Blatt said. “But he has a good shot and he has touch on his shot. That’s something that will be developed.”

Blatt, his travels considered, runs perhaps the most NBA-friendly system in Europe, and he believes that this, too, will help Zizic with his transition.

“I would say yes, but I would say I’m betting more right now on his intangibles — will, courage and desire,” Blatt said.

Those three qualities certainly helped Zizic when it was time to forget about his dominance of the Adriatic League, and throw himself into the best basketball league short of the NBA.

“He adapted nicely, and really right away,” Blatt said. “That showed a lot of character in Ante. He’s a very bright and mature 20-year-old.

“He was used to European basketball, so stepping up to a higher level was not a shock for him. He had no problem stepping up to the size and speed of the (EuroLeague) game, and it helps that he’s very coachable.”

Blatt foresees more business stateside

Coach David Blatt (right) was able to take players such as Zizic, former Celtics draftee Luke Harangody and Brad Wanamaker and lead Darussafaka Dogus to its first EuroLeague playoff appearance since the team was founded in 2000. His team lost to Real Madrid, 3-1, in the EuroLeague quarterfinals, and was swept, 3-0, by a Gigi Datome-led Fenerbahce in the Turkish Basketball Super League semifinals.

As he showed everywhere from the Russian national team to Maccabi Tel Aviv, Blatt can improve a team in a hurry. But something else is tugging at him, and maybe the sight of one of his young stars heading off for the NBA simply exacerbates the feeling.

Blatt wants back in. “I hope to get back to the NBA next year,” he said referring the 2018-19 season.

There are no coaching vacancies in the NBA now.

Pickin's should be good in 2018

For those wondering about the value of those Nets and Lakers first-round picks next summer, keep in mind the Celtics already have graded the potential 2018 draft class as at least an above average big-man crop. The chance of landing two picks in the top five — and finally saying adieu to that Nets treasure trove — will give Danny Ainge a chance at one or two of the following three high school stars: Missouri-bound 6-10 forward Michael Porter of Columbia, Mo., who already is doomed with a Kevin Durant comparison; 7-footer DeAndre Ayton of the Bahamas and headed to Arizona; and Texas-bound 6-11 forward Mohamed Bamba of Harlem, N.Y.



bob
MY NOTE:  David Blatt is saying that he's not quite ready for the NBA.  That's another way of saying he's a project, so don't expect much from Zizic this year.  Anybody who thinks that Zizic is the difference-maker in our front court this year might want to re-calibrate their expectations because we're being told, about as straight out as one can say it without being insulting, that he's not quite ripe.  On the other hand everybody has to start somewhere and you have to love this "“He’s a good athlete, not a great athlete, but he has a nose for the ball and absolutely no fear. He’ll physically battle with anyone.”"  That should have been Zeller, who is not one of the new stretch 5s, but wasn't.  I am really, really looking forward to seeing the look on Zizic's face the first time he battles in the paint with Tristan Thompson.  Welcome to the NBA, kid.  Now kick their asses.


.

[international]

Mark Murphy


Sunday, July 02, 2017



Credit: Jim Michaud
AN ANSWER ON THE GLASS? Ante Zizic towels off during Celtics minicamp yesterday in Waltham. Staff photo by Jim Michaud



Ante Zizic made more than a geographical leap when, in midseason he left Cibona of the Adriatic League for the up-and-coming Darussafaka Dogus, an Istanbul-based team in the Turkish League and, of particular value, the EuroLeague.

The learning curve was cliff-like, and the talent tough enough to knock the young Celtics prospect around mercilessly in his first practices and games. His new coach was a man of not only prime EuroLeague accomplishments but also a short, lively run in the NBA with Cleveland and LeBron James — David Blatt.

Blatt in turn had seen Zizic for the first time at the age of 16 in one of his camps as then-head coach of Maccabi Tel Aviv. The kid was tall, raw-boned, and kept picking himself off the floor after each hard knock.

That’s the reaction Blatt saw again last winter from the now-20-year-old center.

“That’s why I wanted to get him this year,” Blatt said of Zizic’s growing reputation as one of the best rebounding big men in Europe. “Despite getting taken to the floor, he kicked around and kept coming at you.”

The longer Zizic played on the accelerated EuroLeague schedule, the more secure he became in the paint, at one stage grabbing 10 rebounds and scoring nine points in a Feb. 24 loss to Real Madrid.

Is this the work of one of the better rebounders in Europe? Blatt won’t sign on just yet.

“I wouldn’t say better, but he more than held his own,” Blatt said. “That bodes well because that’s how he’s going to have to impact the game once he makes the NBA.

“He’s a good athlete, not a great athlete, but he has a nose for the ball and absolutely no fear. He’ll physically battle with anyone.”

Zizic is scheduled to make his Celtics debut tomorrow against an interesting Philadelphia team in the first game of the Salt Lake City NBA Summer League, though a truly good potential test — center Joel Embiid — isn’t on the roster.

Over the course of the next three weeks in Salt Lake City then in Las Vegas, Zizic’s rabidly curious Celtics public will get its first prolonged look at the 7-footer’s renowned competitive energy. Right now that’s probably his readiest ability.

“He has a terrific motor,” Blatt said. “He’s a great runner for a big man. What you get from him is all-out effort. He’s not going to fail from a lack of effort.”

But Blatt again demurs when asked if Zizic is NBA-ready.

“He still has a ways to go,” Blatt said. “This was really his only season of high-level experience. He has a lot of growing and developing to do. He has to work on his post game, and he has to become a lot more accustomed to NBA terminology.

“But if I had to bet on a kid who has this kind of willingness to learn and be patient and work, I would bet on him.”

Don’t expect a typical European big man, for example. Zizic is here for his rebounding and active game, not his shooting.

“He didn’t get to shoot it a lot this year,” Blatt said. “But he has a good shot and he has touch on his shot. That’s something that will be developed.”

Blatt, his travels considered, runs perhaps the most NBA-friendly system in Europe, and he believes that this, too, will help Zizic with his transition.

“I would say yes, but I would say I’m betting more right now on his intangibles — will, courage and desire,” Blatt said.

Those three qualities certainly helped Zizic when it was time to forget about his dominance of the Adriatic League, and throw himself into the best basketball league short of the NBA.

“He adapted nicely, and really right away,” Blatt said. “That showed a lot of character in Ante. He’s a very bright and mature 20-year-old.

“He was used to European basketball, so stepping up to a higher level was not a shock for him. He had no problem stepping up to the size and speed of the (EuroLeague) game, and it helps that he’s very coachable.”

Blatt foresees more business stateside

Coach David Blatt (right) was able to take players such as Zizic, former Celtics draftee Luke Harangody and Brad Wanamaker and lead Darussafaka Dogus to its first EuroLeague playoff appearance since the team was founded in 2000. His team lost to Real Madrid, 3-1, in the EuroLeague quarterfinals, and was swept, 3-0, by a Gigi Datome-led Fenerbahce in the Turkish Basketball Super League semifinals.

As he showed everywhere from the Russian national team to Maccabi Tel Aviv, Blatt can improve a team in a hurry. But something else is tugging at him, and maybe the sight of one of his young stars heading off for the NBA simply exacerbates the feeling.

Blatt wants back in. “I hope to get back to the NBA next year,” he said referring the 2018-19 season.

There are no coaching vacancies in the NBA now.

Pickin's should be good in 2018

For those wondering about the value of those Nets and Lakers first-round picks next summer, keep in mind the Celtics already have graded the potential 2018 draft class as at least an above average big-man crop. The chance of landing two picks in the top five — and finally saying adieu to that Nets treasure trove — will give Danny Ainge a chance at one or two of the following three high school stars: Missouri-bound 6-10 forward Michael Porter of Columbia, Mo., who already is doomed with a Kevin Durant comparison; 7-footer DeAndre Ayton of the Bahamas and headed to Arizona; and Texas-bound 6-11 forward Mohamed Bamba of Harlem, N.Y.



bob
MY NOTE:  David Blatt is saying that he's not quite ready for the NBA.  That's another way of saying he's a project, so don't expect much from Zizic this year.  Anybody who thinks that Zizic is the difference-maker in our front court this year might want to re-calibrate their expectations because we're being told, about as straight out as one can say it without being insulting, that he's not quite ripe.  On the other hand everybody has to start somewhere and you have to love this "“He’s a good athlete, not a great athlete, but he has a nose for the ball and absolutely no fear. He’ll physically battle with anyone.”"  That should have been Zeller, who is not one of the new stretch 5s, but wasn't.  I am really, really looking forward to seeing the look on Zizic's face the first time he battles in the paint with Tristan Thompson.  Welcome to the NBA, kid.  Now kick their asses.


.[/quote]

[mulcogiseng]

Zizic may not be the difference maker in the team this year but he will make a difference in the front court. We finally have someone who knows that it is his responsibility to grab rebounds and he enjoys doing it. That's a big difference right there. I expect him to make the rotation and play solid minutes. If he does, he will produce. If he produces at all like he has, we win a couple more games this year.

On a side note, I just did something that I have been wanting to do for many many years. I finally got my #14 NBA jersey in the mail. Like the original, there is no name on the back, just BOSTON on the front and my old number 14. Nostalgia is such a trip! lol

[Rmbone]

He’ll physically battle with anyone.”" That should have been Zeller, who is not one of the new stretch 5s, but wasn't.

That was never Zeller, not in college and not in Cleveland. Zeller was never a physical player, nor was he ever strong physically, nor did he ever play with an intense motor. Huge difference.

And even Zeller was apparently worth 12 million a year, not in my mind but in Danny's. And some team is about to pay Olynyk 12-17 million a year. If Zizic is "only" that good, I guess he'll just be another under-appreciated gem like Olynyk.

Just look at Tristan Thompson and his value. Zizic's REAL value won't appear until the playoffs, but he'll bring plenty value before then as well.

[bobheckler]

He’ll physically battle with anyone.”"  That should have been Zeller, who is not one of the new stretch 5s, but wasn't.

That was never Zeller, not in college and not in Cleveland. Zeller was never a physical player, nor was he ever strong physically, nor did he ever play with an intense motor. Huge difference.

And even Zeller was apparently worth 12 million a year, not in my mind but in Danny's. And some team is about to pay Olynyk 12-17 million a year. If Zizic is "only" that good, I guess he'll just be another under-appreciated gem like Olynyk.

Just look at Tristan Thompson and his value. Zizic's REAL value won't appear until the playoffs, but he'll bring plenty value before then as well.

Rmbone,

$8M. Zeller made $8M/year for 2 years. It was Amir who made $12M.


bob


.

[ginoc]

Zizic is our "ic". If your name ends with an "ic" for some reason it turns out okay in the NBA.

[Rmbone]

Zizic is our "ic". If your name ends with an "ic" for some reason it turns out okay in the NBA.

As long as you're tall, and won the Adriatic League Rising Star award, absolutely. Nurkic, Jokic, Saric, Zizic

[bobheckler]

David Blatt said, this summer, that Zizic wasn't ready for the NBA yet.

"Experts" (aka NON-coaches who think they know better than the coaches) said that if Zizic came out this year he'd be a Top 10 pick instead of the 23rd pick that he was.

He's in Cleveland now as part of the Irving trade.  Cleveland has played 11 games, Zizic has played in only 5 of them despite Cleveland being without Tristan Thompson.

Ante Zizic has played a grand total of 21 minutes this season.

Well whaddya know, Brad and Danny are smarter than all of us combined...



bob


.

[kdp59]

he's a BUM

[bobheckler]

he's a BUM

kdp,

Who?  Blatt, Danny, Brad or Zizic?



bob


.

[kdp59]

Zizic...LOL

just being a butt head here....like he;s not a Celtic, so he's a bum now.

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