Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

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Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by bobheckler on Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:40 pm

One team showed up and the other didn't. They played OT last night and we have been off since Sunday and we played like we haven't looked at any film, had no practices and didn't even think about basketball since then.

When Brad cleaned out the bench with a little less than 5 left the bench scored 14 points total. Kelly had 12 on 5-8 in just 16 minutes and Brown had 2 on a backdoor flush and that's it. Take Kelly out of it and the rest of the bench was 1-17. Jaylen was 1-7 and Marcus Smart was 1-8.

Bradley was 1-8.

It all worked for them. Part of the reason is that our defensive rotations were AWFUL. Simple screens were getting shooters open.

Our transition defense wasn't good neither. 19 fast break points for them.

They also had 58 points in the paint.

We looked like we did 2 years ago when we got obliterated by these same Cleveland Cavaliers in 4 playoff games. If we play like this we'll get obliterated by the #7 seed. Yeah, we can forget about the #1 seed. They have a 1 game lead and own the tiebreaker with just 4 games left.

Awful. I'm not happy with anybody right now except IT and Kelly. Nobody else stepped up. Unreal, that Kelly Olynyk is tied for the #3 Celtic scorer, tied with Horford and just one point behind Crowder, and he did that in almost half the minutes. That's how bad everybody was.

One small, tiny sliver of light here is that the Lakers actually beat San Antonio in San Antonio.


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900547



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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by 112288 on Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:05 pm

This was not a good effort and clearly demonstrates we need help at center as Horford is a much better PF thenn center. We also need a stronger bench.

Hey, it is what it is and we are moving in the right direction. With free agency and the draft coming, we will be in great position to make some things happen including a BIG multi player trade.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by steve3344 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:35 am

bobheckler wrote:One team showed up and the other didn't.  They played OT last night and we have been off since Sunday and we played like we haven't looked at any film, had no practices and didn't even think about basketball since then.

When Brad cleaned out the bench with a little less than 5 left the bench scored 14 points total.  Kelly had 12 on 5-8 in just 16 minutes and Brown had 2 on a backdoor flush and that's it.  Take Kelly out of it and the rest of the bench was 1-17.  Jaylen was 1-7 and Marcus Smart was 1-8.

Bradley was 1-8.

It all worked for them.  Part of the reason is that our defensive rotations were AWFUL.  Simple screens were getting shooters open.

Our transition defense wasn't good neither.  19 fast break points for them.

They also had 58 points in the paint.

We looked like we did 2 years ago when we got obliterated by these same Cleveland Cavaliers in 4 playoff games.  If we play like this we'll get obliterated by the #7 seed.  Yeah, we can forget about the #1 seed.  They have a 1 game lead and own the tiebreaker with just 4 games left.

Awful.  I'm not happy with anybody right now except IT and Kelly.  Nobody else stepped up.  Unreal, that Kelly Olynyk is tied for the #3 Celtic scorer, tied with Horford and just one point behind Crowder, and he did that in almost half the minutes.  That's how bad everybody was.

One small, tiny sliver of light here is that the Lakers actually beat San Antonio in San Antonio.


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900547



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"One small, tiny sliver of light here is that the Lakers actually beat San Antonio in San Antonio."

Since about a week ago I've been more concerned about Phoenix than LA.  Tonight changes nothing about that.  We can pin our hopes on our home game with the Nets and their home and away games with the Bulls who should have Wade for those.  One of those wins by Chi should do it.  I don't think Phoenix will win another game.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by steve3344 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:50 am

Marcus is 40 for 141 (28.4%) his last 14 games.  And on threes in his last 21 games he is 17 for 91 (18.7%). I've never seen shooting this bad from anyone.  Hard to stomach even with how good his defense is.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by kdp59 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:49 am

Horford is a center, has been a center his entire NBA career. can we stop the "we need Horford at PF" stuff please?

Horford needs to step up in beg games, he didn't last night, back to the Horford is overpaid droning from me, until he steps it back up.


I would think most Celtics fans would gladly trade Bradley , Smart and one of those Nets picks for George or Butler after last nights debacle.

we have no one who can create their shots in the playoffs, as IT will be swallowed and beaten up come playoff basketball.

Oh well, maybe Danny can correct his mistakes (Horford max, no trade for true All-star) in the off-season.

I fear that Brads coaching has hidden the real problems we have with this team right now and even fooled Danny perhaps.

oh yeah...Horford is OVERPAID!!


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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by dboss on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:11 am

Since it was a blowout things look worse than they are.

Besides I never thought we were the equal of Cleveland. We are NOT slated to win the championship this year. winnig one playoff series is an improvement and having a real good chance to finish with the #2 seed is an improvement. And that #1 pick should ease the pain a bit.

Celts had too many days off and lost their edge. Who is up next?

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by bobheckler on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:04 am

dboss wrote:Since it was a blowout things look worse than they are.

Besides I never thought  we were the equal of Cleveland.  We are NOT slated to win the championship this year.  winnig one playoff series is an improvement and having a real good chance to finish with the #2 seed is an improvement.  And that #1 pick should ease the pain a bit.

Celts had too many days off and lost their edge.  Who is up next?

dboss


dboss,

I concur. I have said that winning enough games this year to secure a homecourt advantage in the playoffs, which we have done, and winning a playoff series would be a successful season. We looked TERRIBLE last night but we are on the upswing, in general. We cannot play like that in the playoffs, though, and expect to do well. Playoff experience, BIG game experience, is a learned thing and the only way to learn it is by going through it. LeBron went to Miami. He had DWade and Bosh and a host of ring-chasing wraiths around him, and they still lost to Dallas. It wasn't until the next year they won. He went back to Cleveland and was loaded up again and lost. Yeah, I know he was down two All-Stars but the players around him didn't know how to step up. Look at OKC last year with Durant and Westbrook and, in the years before, with Harden. They couldn't win either and that was when GSW was a 50 win team. Playoffs are different.

The sky isn't falling, but it hasn't clear up yet either. There are clouds, and yesterday it rained, but we can see the blue sky from where we are.

Good post, dboss.


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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by worcester on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:02 am

Agreed Dboss, and I also agree with Steve that Marcus' horrific shooting is simply unacceptable, no matter how well he plays otherwise.
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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by gyso on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:05 am

Maybe thinking about the #1 seed set some of us up with pie in the sky expectations. Perhaps we should reset our sights on the #2 seed, which is where many of us were quite happy with in the first place.

If we end up with either the #2 or #3 seed, we will be in the bottom playoff bracket, postponing a series with the Cavs until the Eastern Conference Finals, if we survive that long.

I can live with that.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by hawksnestbeach on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:09 am

I agree, dboss, bob h., that was just one game, but confirms for me that we are not an elite team despite our regular season record. Lebron set the tone early by driving easily past Crowder and Smart. Irving is listed at 6'3'', but looks taller than Smart, and much taller than Bradley, let alone Thomas. In general, the Cavs seem bigger than the Celts, so much so that I don't know if one monster in the middle will be an equalizer for us. When you rely on 3-pointers but have no one who can drive other than your smallest player, you're not going to beat a top tier team IMO. Hawk

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by mulcogiseng on Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:19 pm

The Celtics were not exposed last night. Deep in our hearts, anyone who truly has any understanding of the game of basketball, knows that these have been our issues all year long. This is NOT the defensive juggernaut from last year. Defense has been an issue all season long. Rebounding has been an issue all season long as has rim protection. We are as good as, or better than, almost all teams in the NBA. Except the good teams. It is good that this is so but it won't get us into the NBA finals.

The same offensive liabilities that we entered this season with are still there. Of course they are! Danny didn't make any moves to address these issues as he made no moves to shore up the D. He handed the keys to IT and basically made it clear that if IT wanted a Brinks truck backed up, he could control his own destiny.

Most of the rest of what I want to say I've said many times before, from the beginning of the season. We are not a complete team. Two of the players that we really need right now, a rim protecting, fierce rebounding, shot intimidating center, who can finish at the rim and a shot producing, 3 point making PF were drafted but are not on the team this season. Our "King in the Fourth, is a pretender once he is targeted by team defense. This has always been clear to some.

The bad news is that this teams problems, that have always been there, are clear to see after last night and they aren't going away in the upcoming playoffs, they will be exacerbated.

The good news is that those issues will be mitigated next season when Yabusele and Zizic are on the team.

The real question is will Danny do anything to address the two glaring liabilities on this team? We have a PG who is unbelievable at what he is able to accomplish but who is a defensive liability on a DEFENSE oriented team and who is so short that he can be stopped and forced into a turn over. His anointed back up is not even a pg but a combo guard who can't shoot and who continues to make bad plays that tarnish his otherwise stellar D. Yet these are considered to be the two glue guys for the team. Indispensable! Untradeable! Must Keep!

Since this is more than I really wanted to say at this point in the season I will stop here but I will be ready and willing to continue at the end of the playoffs. This is a flawed team, with flawed coaching and flawed management. Fortunately, this is also a very good team, with a very good coach, and a very good GM. We are close but not there yet. We are in the final stages of the rebuild but not quite finished yet.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by kdp59 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 pm

you know I'm 100% with you until I read this line:

The good news is that those issues will be mitigated next season when Yabusele and Zizic are on the team.

REALLY?

why?

when has the 16th and 22 pick in a draft become a star form day one in the NBA?

how often to they become stars ANYTIME?

how often to they even become NBA starters?

now if you replace that line with somethings like:

Danny has a chance to fix some of our problems on draft night with another likely top 3 pick to join Jaylen in our continued youth movement.

then I'm with you.

Zizic and Yabuele being the saviors is fools gold, IMO
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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:33 pm

Simple reality check. Cavs are the champs and are not quite ready to step aside and cede the conference title. Celtics are a group on the up, but still have a way to go. Lebron was great last night, but kind of reminded me of Bird and McHale in some of those later years, knowing the window is closing and holding on with both hands. The Cavs have one or two more runs in them max.

This thread shows why this is a great board full of knowledgeable Celtics fans. They sky isnt falling, but we aren't as good as the media told people we were. Any one of us who was promised 2nd place at this point, would have taken it.

The Celtics are in as good a position for long term successes as any team in the league. Its about to get good around here - a bit more patience is needed.
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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by dboss on Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:01 pm

There are balls.. lot of balls in the air!

I think it will take a combination of several resources blended together to bring about a measure of improvement in this team with the ultimate goal to secure #18+.

Long term growth can be painful but as long as progress has been achieved and continued progress appears on the horizon, there is quite a bit to be excited about.

We have the playoffs coming up for the 3rd year in a row.  Not bad for a team on the rebuild.

We have a chance to do something never before done in Celtics History ... make the first pick in an NBA draft.

We have a chance to see see our 1st round stashes from last year challenge for a roster spot.

We have free agency options to secure another quality player.

We have depth in terms of players and a basket full of draft picks to make a significant trade.

These are the tools available.  Danny has to navigate the way to the top of the mountain.  He's done it before with significantly fewer assets  and options.

Getting your arse handed to you on National Television cannot and will not change the positive narrative of what we really have in this team.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:38 pm

I have been worried about a game like this for over two weeks. No matter who they are playing, the first quarter has been a nightmare. Shooting is all on IT's shoulders, which is unfair. Time for the excuses to stop. This is not an elite backcourt with elite backups. Frankly, I see Rozier and possibly Smart gone next year. For every good game Rozier has, there is a gap, where he can't score, throws terrible passes, and does not run the team professionally.
And that is just the beginning. The whole offense is too inconsistent. Bradley went on a run for about a month and then he was out again. Last night, he had no lift, no arc in his shot when it counted, he just wasn't "there". Tommy said during the game that being as sick as he was had definite bearing on his night.

We can dwell on this game, or move on to tonight and hope they blow the doors off the Hawks arena.

As my wonderful Mother would say day after day: IT
IS WHAT IT IS!!! Let's enjoy what we have left of this season and hope that the draft and free agency will push us to another level next year.

Boy I hated watching LeBron do what he did to us last night. but, as much as it kills me to say it, he is an awesome player.
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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by mulcogiseng on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:34 pm

Doesn't surprise me too much that we would disagree on this. We probably disagree on a lot of things. Sure, the 16th and 23 picks aren't often superstars but players like Ron Artest, John Stockton, and Tayshaun Prince are what the goal should be for those picks. I don't know if Zizic and Yabusele will actually be better than Zeller, Mickey, or Johnson, but I think they will be and wish they had had the chance to prove it one way or the other this season. If I felt that this year's pick would do more to help this team than the addition of Zizic and Yabusele and this years pick I would have said so. I know I like to think I do a fair job of expressing myself and what I think about any given issue. And I really don't have too much of a problem with being wrong about things. (not that I ever am, just sayin lol) Opinion is, after all, just that. I'm not looking for Zizic, Yabusele, and/or this years first pick to start next season. I do expect them to fill a role and do it well while experiencing the NBA rookie learning curve. I firmly believe that both players will contribute from the get go. Not start, not star, but play and contribute. That contribution will improve our chances of #18 next season There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Celtics will be a better team next season because of their addition. There is also no doubt that the Celtics will be much better next year if I am right then if you are right. tempus docet et tempus fugit
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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by bobheckler on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:43 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:Doesn't surprise me too much that we would disagree on this. We probably disagree on a lot of things. Sure, the 16th and 23 picks aren't often superstars but players like Ron Artest, John Stockton, and Tayshaun Prince are what the goal should be for those picks. I don't know if Zizic and Yabusele will actually be better than Zeller, Mickey, or Johnson, but I think they will be and wish they had had the chance to prove it one way or the other this season. If I felt that this year's pick would do more to help this team than the addition of Zizic and Yabusele and this years pick I would have said so. I know I like to think I do a fair job of expressing myself and what I think about any given issue. And I really don't have too much of a problem with being wrong about things. (not that I ever am, just sayin lol) Opinion is, after all, just that. I'm not looking for Zizic, Yabusele, and/or this years first pick to start next season. I do expect them to fill a role and do it well while experiencing the NBA rookie learning curve. I firmly believe that both players will contribute from the get go. Not start, not star, but play and contribute. That contribution will improve our chances of #18 next season There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Celtics will be a better team next season because of their addition. There is also no doubt that the Celtics will be much better next year if I am right then if you are right. tempus docet et tempus fugit





Fructus autem sicut sagitta volat hora fugit velut sagittas. Time flies like arrows but fruit flies like bananas.


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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by worcester on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:24 pm

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

First Paragraph of Tale of Two Cities
by Charles Dickens

Dickens was obviously a Celtics fan.



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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by worcester on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:24 pm

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

First Paragraph of Tale of Two Cities
by Charles Dickens

Dickens was obviously a Celtics fan.



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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by dboss on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:25 pm

Yume ni wa machigai ga nai

There is no right or wrong in the dream
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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by worcester on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:25 pm

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

First Paragraph of Tale of Two Cities
by Charles Dickens

Dickens was obviously a Celtics fan.



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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by beat on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:30 pm

Crimey, one bad game the friggin sky is falling. Who expected us to be 1st in the east anyway?

Think we need to take some chill pills.

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Re: Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Home

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:50 pm

Touche my friend. How many people expected a 50 game plus winning season this year? Not the experts. As I said, on to the next game
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