Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by worcester on Tue May 02, 2017 8:58 am

Markannen is 230, not 225. At 20. Olynyk is 238 at 26. Lauri has a much higher 3 point % than Kelly ever did. FT % too.
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by fierce on Tue May 02, 2017 10:40 am

worcester wrote:Markannen is 230, not 225. At 20. Olynyk is 238 at 26. Lauri has a much higher 3 point % than Kelly ever did. FT % too.

Reason for the low 3-point % is Oly was not known as a 3-point shooter in college.

Oly only started taking a lot of 3s under Brad Stevens.

Reason why we say Lauri is similar to Oly is because they're both 7-foot shooters who are bad defensively.


Last edited by fierce on Tue May 02, 2017 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by worcester on Tue May 02, 2017 10:45 am

Bad defensively, ok, but Lauri is a much better 3 point shooter than Kelly ever was or is now. I get it, and Kelly has been improving, but Lauri is one helluva shooter. In college, which does not necessarily translate to the NBA.
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by NYCelt on Tue May 02, 2017 12:03 pm

kdp59 wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Bob and W,

Save time..respond to two at once...

I didn't exclude Ball for any special reason.  My comment that Fultz was a must #1 was followed by my own preferences, if available and we don't draft 1st. I'd be happy enough with Ball if that's who they take, but I'd rather see us take a SF.  Can't see us trading down either, not with 4 or 5 potential game changers at the top of the draft.

After watching Marrkanen all season, I'm sure he's Kelly Olynyk.  There may be slight weight variances, and there may be a difference in cost, but he's Kelly O alright.  Pay Kelly now or Lauri in a year or two, same guy.  Think I even saw Lauri go into a phone booth and come out Kelly.  Like Kelly he's a big who shoots the 3 very well, and then gets owned on defense.  Lauri still needs to learn how to work in the high post and in the mid-post.  Like Kelly.  No way I'd take him top 5.  In a game against Cal, Ivan Rabb did a good enough job in their matchup, I thought I'd rather have Rabb.  I might even consider Jarett Allen of Texas over Lauri if going for a big before a shooter.  Allen has been developing into quite the rim protector.

My $.02 as I wait for the thunderstorm to pass so I can dash to my car.

Regards

Edit:  I like the strategy of selecting Fultz, Tatum, Jackson, or Ball, in that order, depending on our position.  Now we've got our shooter who can also defend. Then, with #36, I look for our big among Adebayo or Bryant, maybe Motley or Swanigan, depending on who is available.  At #56, I don't know, maybe go for an international type on a gamble.  Maybe Tim Tebow; they've picked him in every other pro league.


I like your thinking here as usual, since you watch all these guys play it carries a lot of weight  for me.

As I pre look at the draft (because we ARE still playing the games after all), my mind wonders a bit......and suddenly I wonder what if Danny makes the big deal before the draft?

perhaps the Bulls finally blow it all up and we send Bradley and the Nets pick to them for Butler and the 16th pick?

who would you pick out of Collins, Patten, Adebayo or Rabb?

I think John Collins might fit nicely in a couple years myself.

Tony Bradley or Anigbogu in the early second could round out that draft for me.

thoughts?

kdp,

So if you ever wonder what I do instead of eating lunch, this is it again today!  After two breakfast meetings, I really should be going over to the gym...

Remember, asking me to play GM is like putting Donald Duck at the helm of The Titanic.

In your scenario, above, I'm assuming we're now going for that big, and I'm agnostic as to the label of PF or C.  This is purely someone to play next to Horford.  My earlier choice was Adebayo or Bryant, figuring we were talking round 2.  Collins and Patten, then, are round 1 after your trade.

Collins is a nice prospect, as you say, in a year or two.  My concern with him is he looked way better in the tourney than he did all season long.  I think he benefited from playing next to Karnowski, and I'm not sure how he would fair beside the much less physical Horford.  I do think Collins can defend, and he has an inside game on offense.  You mentioned four really good prospects, any of whom could be our answer, but if I may, I vote we take Jarrett Allen.

Like Collins and Patten, Allen probably goes between 10 and 15, and is a mixed bag at this time while still developing.  I think Allen's up and down season came from the fact that Texas flat out stunk the joint out most of the year, and gave him little front court help.  He does need to get stronger and work on his free-throws.  He's a target to get hacked.  Allen plays more like a traditional center; you're not going to see him out on the perimeter.  He's also got a fairly effective jump-hook he uses and he has been building well as a shot-blocker.  I'd go with Collins in your scenario, if Allen decides to return to school.

I think Anigbogu goes round 1.  If we traded and took a big later in round 1, I'd look for a SF who can shoot/score in round two.  Around 36 I'd look at someone like Dillon Brooks from Oregon.

Longest most rambling answer I could give; sorry!

Regards
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by kdp59 on Tue May 02, 2017 12:36 pm

all good man, love the input.

I figured Allen goes in the top 10 to be honest in this draft and for him to fall to#16 would be asking a lot. That's why I left him off.

as I've said before I think any upgrades we get up front wil come form a trade or FA signing , not fro this draft. I just don't see any bigs that would be upgrades over Amir and Kelly for at least two years.


Most would want to run Danny out of town if he made that trade anyway< I suppose.

I look forward to our coming draft threads here after we surprise the world and beat GS in the 7th game after being down by 20 in their house!!


Very Happy





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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 02, 2017 12:48 pm

NYCelt wrote:
kdp59 wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Bob and W,

Save time..respond to two at once...

I didn't exclude Ball for any special reason.  My comment that Fultz was a must #1 was followed by my own preferences, if available and we don't draft 1st. I'd be happy enough with Ball if that's who they take, but I'd rather see us take a SF.  Can't see us trading down either, not with 4 or 5 potential game changers at the top of the draft.

After watching Marrkanen all season, I'm sure he's Kelly Olynyk.  There may be slight weight variances, and there may be a difference in cost, but he's Kelly O alright.  Pay Kelly now or Lauri in a year or two, same guy.  Think I even saw Lauri go into a phone booth and come out Kelly.  Like Kelly he's a big who shoots the 3 very well, and then gets owned on defense.  Lauri still needs to learn how to work in the high post and in the mid-post.  Like Kelly.  No way I'd take him top 5.  In a game against Cal, Ivan Rabb did a good enough job in their matchup, I thought I'd rather have Rabb.  I might even consider Jarett Allen of Texas over Lauri if going for a big before a shooter.  Allen has been developing into quite the rim protector.

My $.02 as I wait for the thunderstorm to pass so I can dash to my car.

Regards

Edit:  I like the strategy of selecting Fultz, Tatum, Jackson, or Ball, in that order, depending on our position.  Now we've got our shooter who can also defend. Then, with #36, I look for our big among Adebayo or Bryant, maybe Motley or Swanigan, depending on who is available.  At #56, I don't know, maybe go for an international type on a gamble.  Maybe Tim Tebow; they've picked him in every other pro league.


I like your thinking here as usual, since you watch all these guys play it carries a lot of weight  for me.

As I pre look at the draft (because we ARE still playing the games after all), my mind wonders a bit......and suddenly I wonder what if Danny makes the big deal before the draft?

perhaps the Bulls finally blow it all up and we send Bradley and the Nets pick to them for Butler and the 16th pick?

who would you pick out of Collins, Patten, Adebayo or Rabb?

I think John Collins might fit nicely in a couple years myself.

Tony Bradley or Anigbogu in the early second could round out that draft for me.

thoughts?

kdp,

So if you ever wonder what I do instead of eating lunch, this is it again today!  After two breakfast meetings, I really should be going over to the gym...

Remember, asking me to play GM is like putting Donald Duck at the helm of The Titanic.

In your scenario, above, I'm assuming we're now going for that big, and I'm agnostic as to the label of PF or C.  This is purely someone to play next to Horford.  My earlier choice was Adebayo or Bryant, figuring we were talking round 2.  Collins and Patten, then, are round 1 after your trade.

Collins is a nice prospect, as you say, in a year or two.  My concern with him is he looked way better in the tourney than he did all season long.  I think he benefited from playing next to Karnowski, and I'm not sure how he would fair beside the much less physical Horford.  I do think Collins can defend, and he has an inside game on offense.  You mentioned four really good prospects, any of whom could be our answer, but if I may, I vote we take Jarrett Allen.

Like Collins and Patten, Allen probably goes between 10 and 15, and is a mixed bag at this time while still developing.  I think Allen's up and down season came from the fact that Texas flat out stunk the joint out most of the year, and gave him little front court help.  He does need to get stronger and work on his free-throws.  He's a target to get hacked.  Allen plays more like a traditional center; you're not going to see him out on the perimeter.  He's also got a fairly effective jump-hook he uses and he has been building well as a shot-blocker.  I'd go with Collins in your scenario, if Allen decides to return to school.

I think Anigbogu goes round 1.  If we traded and took a big later in round 1, I'd look for a SF who can shoot/score in round two.  Around 36 I'd look at someone like Dillon Brooks from Oregon.

Longest most rambling answer I could give; sorry!

Regards



NYCelts,

"Remember, asking me to play GM is like putting Donald Duck at the helm of The Titanic."

Like water off a duck's ass, easy-peasy...


bob


.
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by fierce on Tue May 02, 2017 1:40 pm

According to one PAC-12 analyst, Fultz is the #1 pick and Lonzo Ball is like Kendall Marshall.

Fraschilla doesn’t see a scenario in which Fultz doesn’t go first. At the same time, a Division I college coach, who talked on condition of anonymity, ranks Fultz behind both Ball and Fox. Then there’s Don MacLean, a Pac-12 and NBA television analyst. He agrees with Fraschilla on Fultz but doesn’t buy into what he calls the “Ball hype machine.” “My order of point guards in the draft is Fultz, Fox, Dennis Smith and Ball,” said MacLean, who coincidentally played at UCLA, where he finished as the conference’s career scoring leader. – via Arizona Republic
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by fierce on Tue May 02, 2017 1:41 pm

For such reasons, MacLean compares Ball to Kendall Marshall. Like Ball, the former North Carolina point guard was an elite distributor, but his game didn’t translate to the NBA. The Suns chose Marshall with the 13th pick of the 2012 draft. Five years later, he was out of the league. “If you’re starting a college team, you want Lonzo Ball to be your point guard,” said MacLean, who also helps players train for the draft. “If you’re starting an NBA team, you want Fultz or De’Aaron Fox. Here’s why: His game as a pro, to me, doesn’t translate as well because he’s never run the screen-roll game. He doesn’t shoot any shots between the rim and the 3-point line, and that’s a problem.” – via Arizona Republic
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Re: Terry Rozier is forcing his way into our vision.

Post by Shamrock1000 on Tue May 02, 2017 4:28 pm

fierce wrote:For such reasons, MacLean compares Ball to Kendall Marshall. Like Ball, the former North Carolina point guard was an elite distributor, but his game didn’t translate to the NBA. The Suns chose Marshall with the 13th pick of the 2012 draft. Five years later, he was out of the league. “If you’re starting a college team, you want Lonzo Ball to be your point guard,” said MacLean, who also helps players train for the draft. “If you’re starting an NBA team, you want Fultz or De’Aaron Fox. Here’s why: His game as a pro, to me, doesn’t translate as well because he’s never run the screen-roll game. He doesn’t shoot any shots between the rim and the 3-point line, and that’s a problem.” – via Arizona Republic

My gut tells me to stay away from Ball. In addition to concerns about whether his game will translate to the pros, I suspect his father will never be satisfied with his son's minutes or usage, and this will create a distraction. Unfortunately, this talentless, egotistical, domineering father is seriously limiting his son's growth and potential. Its hard for sons to break away from the influence of these guys, and when they do, there is usually a cost. I wish Lonzo the best - he seems like a much cooler guy than his old man, and I like that he's true floor general/creator - but I'm just afraid his old man is too much baggage....

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