Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

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Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 02, 2017 1:43 pm

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245821/Dwight-Howard-Likely-To-Only-Fetch-Cap-Relief-2nd-Rounder-On-Trade-Market



Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market


MAY 2, 2017 12:32 PM


The Atlanta Hawks signed Dwight Howard last offseason to a three-year, $70.5 million deal and his season ended with him complaining about his role on the team.

According to an informal poll of eight front office executives, the best offer the Hawks can expect to get for Howard would be a second rounder and cap relief.

Howard averaged just 26.2 minutes per game in the playoffs as he was relegated to a lesser role.

For the season, Howard averaged 13.5 points and 12.7 rebounds in 29.7 minutes per game with a PER of 20.8.

The Hawks' top offseason priority is the free agency of Paul Millsap.

KEVIN ARNOVITZ/ESPN



bob
MY NOTE:  Maybe the NY Museum of Natural History will make an offer for him.  They have a great collection of dinosaurs on display already.  Perhaps they would like to add to it...

The real pain here is that the Hawks lost Al Horford because they prioritized landing Howard and Al didn't take kindly to that, for whatever reason. If the Dwightmare is gone for a 2nd rounder, boy, will that sting...



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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by wideclyde on Tue May 02, 2017 2:31 pm

Bob,

The mention of trading for guys like Howard who obviously have bloated contracts always confuses me.

I am under the opinion that unless Atlanta just plain cuts him and he passes through waivers that he will
still cost a new team all of the salary that the Hawks signed him to in year #2 (and 3rd years) of his three year contract.  If waived he can sign with anyone for whatever a new team will pay him.

HOWEVER, also more importantly to me as a Cs fan, is that if a team wants him that they have to match his salary in the players that the Hawks would receive.  Doesn't the salary money have to match up for all such trades?  Trade-checker? No way I would give up even Bradley, Johnson and Jerebko for Howard to 'match' salaries.

Help me to understand.  Certainly as only a very amateur NBA GM I am not privy to all of the NBA code and rule books on such issues.  I currently have zero real NBA GMs on my speed dial either even if one was willing to assist me.

Another different thought on Howard......In the end, he may not even be worth a #2 pick (and a salary far less than $20-23 M) unless he is willingly going to accept a second string role type of position that could bring him 15-18 minutes per game.  His complaining in Atlanta would indicate that he is not about to start thinking as a backup in any way and probably not for any team.

If he did actually say that he wants to play for winning team and would accept a very much lesser second string position type salary, I doubt that I would think too long on bringing him aboard although the dinosaur center is not totally dead in the NBA as a second stringer guy. Zeller is a good kid and a very professional guy, but for the same salary and the same good attitude Howard would be able to help win more games.

Teams like the Cs, who seemingly have a great team attitude, a great coaching staff, and now a winning tradition again may even have a very difficult time getting Howard to change his ways (leave his ego in his past).

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by Shamrock1000 on Tue May 02, 2017 2:46 pm

14 and 13 with a PER of 21 is still quite valuable. Plenty of less effective players are making or are going to make similar money. In the right situation, he could be a useful player. Not exactly sure what that situation is.....

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by swish on Wed May 03, 2017 2:13 pm

For a 2nd rounder only - I'd make that deal real pronto. He would be one helluva up-grade at center.

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by bobheckler on Wed May 03, 2017 2:31 pm

swish wrote:  For a 2nd rounder only - I'd make that deal real pronto. He would be one helluva up-grade at center.

  swish


swish,

Horford would be shaking his head and wonder why he ran away from Atlanta when they offered him the same deal we did. LOL.


bob


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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by kdp59 on Wed May 03, 2017 4:53 pm

wideclyde wrote:Bob,

The mention of trading for guys like Howard who obviously have bloated contracts always confuses me.

I am under the opinion that unless Atlanta just plain cuts him and he passes through waivers that he will
still cost a new team all of the salary that the Hawks signed him to in year #2 (and 3rd years) of his three year contract.  If waived he can sign with anyone for whatever a new team will pay him.

HOWEVER, also more importantly to me as a Cs fan, is that if a team wants him that they have to match his salary in the players that the Hawks would receive.  Doesn't the salary money have to match up for all such trades?  Trade-checker?  No way I would give up even Bradley, Johnson and Jerebko for Howard to 'match' salaries.

Help me to understand.  Certainly as only a very amateur NBA GM I am not privy to all of the NBA code and rule books on such issues.  I currently have zero real NBA GMs on my speed dial either even if one was willing to assist me.

Another different thought on Howard......In the end, he may not even be worth a #2 pick (and a salary far less than $20-23 M) unless he is willingly going to accept a second string role type of position that could bring him 15-18 minutes per game.  His complaining in Atlanta would indicate that he is not about to start thinking as a backup in any way and probably not for any team.

If he did actually say that he wants to play for winning team and would accept a very much lesser second string position type salary, I doubt that I would think too long on bringing him aboard although the dinosaur center is not totally dead in the NBA as a second stringer guy.  Zeller is a good kid and a very professional guy, but for the same salary and the same good attitude Howard would be able to help win more games.

Teams like the Cs, who seemingly have a great team attitude, a great coaching staff, and now a winning tradition again may even have a very difficult time getting Howard to change his ways (leave his ego in his past).


a team under the cap can take on additional salary (up to the cap) in a trade. Plenty of teams will be under the cap once the new league years starts. For instance not counting FA and draft pick holds, the Celtics are about $25M under the projected $102M cap for next year.

Not sure how many would be willing to take on Howard for two years at over $20M per though.

but I bet for that price someone will.



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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by worcester on Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm

Danny will figure it out. I still feel there's room for a dinosaur on the team at center to be effective in certain match ups. It's all about the match ups and having diverse tools to throw into the mix at appropriate times and for appropriate salaries.
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by swish on Wed May 03, 2017 6:59 pm

kdp59 wrote:
wideclyde wrote:Bob,

The mention of trading for guys like Howard who obviously have bloated contracts always confuses me.

I am under the opinion that unless Atlanta just plain cuts him and he passes through waivers that he will
still cost a new team all of the salary that the Hawks signed him to in year #2 (and 3rd years) of his three year contract.  If waived he can sign with anyone for whatever a new team will pay him.

HOWEVER, also more importantly to me as a Cs fan, is that if a team wants him that they have to match his salary in the players that the Hawks would receive.  Doesn't the salary money have to match up for all such trades?  Trade-checker?  No way I would give up even Bradley, Johnson and Jerebko for Howard to 'match' salaries.

Help me to understand.  Certainly as only a very amateur NBA GM I am not privy to all of the NBA code and rule books on such issues.  I currently have zero real NBA GMs on my speed dial either even if one was willing to assist me.

Another different thought on Howard......In the end, he may not even be worth a #2 pick (and a salary far less than $20-23 M) unless he is willingly going to accept a second string role type of position that could bring him 15-18 minutes per game.  His complaining in Atlanta would indicate that he is not about to start thinking as a backup in any way and probably not for any team.

If he did actually say that he wants to play for winning team and would accept a very much lesser second string position type salary, I doubt that I would think too long on bringing him aboard although the dinosaur center is not totally dead in the NBA as a second stringer guy.  Zeller is a good kid and a very professional guy, but for the same salary and the same good attitude Howard would be able to help win more games.

Teams like the Cs, who seemingly have a great team attitude, a great coaching staff, and now a winning tradition again may even have a very difficult time getting Howard to change his ways (leave his ego in his past).


a team under the cap can take on additional salary (up to the cap) in a trade. Plenty of teams will be under the cap once the new league years starts.  For instance not counting FA and draft pick holds, the Celtics are about $25M under the projected $102M cap for next year.

Not sure how many  would be willing to take on Howard for two years at over $20M per though.

but I bet for that price someone will.




 Kdp59


He's due about 23 mil per year over the next 2 years - and if he pans out - that's great   If not - waive him using the Stretch Rule at the end of the 1st year, and reduce the cap hit to about 7.6 mil per year over a 3 year period.

 swish


Last edited by swish on Thu May 04, 2017 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by wideclyde on Wed May 03, 2017 10:55 pm

Guys,

Thanks for the help relating to how a guy with $20M plus per year could be traded for only a second round pick.

It is well known that I have a lot of brushing up on NBA protocol before applying for a GM position.

With that said, I think that if Atlanta really wants to rid themselves of Mr. Howard, they will have to either place him on waivers or use the stretch provision on him. His comments about not "being on the floor"
enough when in fact he played about 25 minutes in said game may have been enough for no teams to want to touch him for his salaried price next year and the year after.

No team can build around a guy making that much money and is likely to become a chronic complainer.

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by fierce on Wed May 03, 2017 11:42 pm

wideclyde wrote:Guys,

Thanks for the help relating to how a guy with $20M plus per year could be traded for only a second round pick.

It is well known that I have a lot of brushing up on NBA protocol before applying for a GM position.

With that said, I think that if Atlanta really wants to rid themselves of Mr. Howard, they will have to either place him on waivers or use the stretch provision on him.  His comments about not "being on the floor"
enough when in fact he played about 25 minutes in said game may have been enough for no teams to want to touch him for his salaried price next year and the year after.

No team can  build around a guy making that much money and is likely to become a chronic complainer.

I'm not saying Ainge should really pursue Dwight.
But I think it's worth looking at if it will only cost the Celtics Zeller and a 2nd round pick.
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by fierce on Wed May 03, 2017 11:48 pm

I didn't know Howard only signed a 3-year contract for 70.5m.

If it's true the Hawks are just asking for a 2nd round pick, Ainge should really consider this option.

Celts would just have Dwight for 2 years, 2017-2019.

It would be a medium risk-high reward gamble.
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 04, 2017 12:12 am

fierce do you really want to take on that contract? or did I miss something, can't believe Hawks would still be responsible for his salary? For 10 mill maybe...??? what happens if Zizic is all hes supposed to be?
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by swish on Thu May 04, 2017 12:44 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:fierce do you really want to take on that contract? or did I miss something, can't believe Hawks would still be responsible for his salary? For 10 mill maybe...??? what happens if Zizic is all hes supposed to be?


oldschool

It has been suggested that the Hawks could only hope to get a 2nd round pick for Howard. Whoever made the trade with the Hawks would inherit Howards contract - and the Hawks payroll would be reduced over the next 2 years by about 46 million dollars - which of course would be absorbed by his new team.

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 04, 2017 12:55 am

swish got it thanks, if that's the case no way would I give this aging center 46 mill for 2 years, hes just not worth near that and had an ineffectual year and playoff. Since he left Orlando for Lakers, every situation he has not been happy and has worn out his welcome.
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by kdp59 on Thu May 04, 2017 7:50 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:swish got it thanks, if that's the case no way would I give this aging center 46 mill for 2 years, hes just not worth near that and had an ineffectual year and playoff. Since he left Orlando for Lakers, every situation he has not been happy and has worn out his welcome.


He has been a malcontent  it seems. though at Houston I think he was fine, they just didn't want to pay him the deal the Hawks gave him this year.

Howard is still one the best inside big men and rebounders in the NBA, even with his bad back. His attitude and salary are problematic.

and while we COULD have the space to take on his contract, we would have to renounce, Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Young and Green's rights (as FA holds) to get that amount of space. Kellys hold would be lower than Zellers' $8M I believe.

now, with the Nets pick, Zizic, Yabusle and Nader, we could still fill out the roster nicely.

Horford
Howard
Kelly
Zizic
Yabusele
Mickey
Crowder
Jaylen
Josh Jackson- draft pick?
Bradley
IT
Marcus
Rozier
D. Jackson
Nader

So it COULD be done cap wise and roster wise. Should it?

to be clear, this would assume Zeller an a second round pick would be the trade cost.
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by fierce on Thu May 04, 2017 8:41 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:fierce do you really want to take on that contract? or did I miss something, can't believe Hawks would still be responsible for his salary? For 10 mill maybe...??? what happens if Zizic is all hes supposed to be?

kdp59 is right, Zeller and a 2nd rounder for Dwight.

Celts will have 4 bigs, Horford, Olynyk, Dwight, and Zizic.

I think it's worth the risk if it's only for 2 years.

This summer the Celts will have 29m in cap space.
So they can definitely take on Howard's contract.

Zizic will need to learn the NBA game.
I think Zizic will be a contributor in 2 years.
So having Dwight does not hurt Zizic's development.

Only scenario where I think Celts should go after Dwight is if the Celts fail to get a big name free-agent this summer.

Think of it as replacing Amir with Dwight.


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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by swish on Thu May 04, 2017 9:22 am

A note on Zeller - As of this date his 2017-18 contract is not guaranteed.

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by beat on Thu May 04, 2017 9:37 am

Personally even on the cheap not sure if i'd do it.
certainly not for much.

Not concerned about the chemistry am concerned he has developed no offensive moves in how many years and is NO threat outside of 15 feet.

I can see the lane turning into an LA freeway with no where to go.

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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 04, 2017 9:57 am

wideclyde wrote:Bob,

The mention of trading for guys like Howard who obviously have bloated contracts always confuses me.

I am under the opinion that unless Atlanta just plain cuts him and he passes through waivers that he will
still cost a new team all of the salary that the Hawks signed him to in year #2 (and 3rd years) of his three year contract.  If waived he can sign with anyone for whatever a new team will pay him.

HOWEVER, also more importantly to me as a Cs fan, is that if a team wants him that they have to match his salary in the players that the Hawks would receive.  Doesn't the salary money have to match up for all such trades?  Trade-checker?  No way I would give up even Bradley, Johnson and Jerebko for Howard to 'match' salaries.

Help me to understand.  Certainly as only a very amateur NBA GM I am not privy to all of the NBA code and rule books on such issues.  I currently have zero real NBA GMs on my speed dial either even if one was willing to assist me.

Another different thought on Howard......In the end, he may not even be worth a #2 pick (and a salary far less than $20-23 M) unless he is willingly going to accept a second string role type of position that could bring him 15-18 minutes per game.  His complaining in Atlanta would indicate that he is not about to start thinking as a backup in any way and probably not for any team.

If he did actually say that he wants to play for winning team and would accept a very much lesser second string position type salary, I doubt that I would think too long on bringing him aboard although the dinosaur center is not totally dead in the NBA as a second stringer guy.  Zeller is a good kid and a very professional guy, but for the same salary and the same good attitude Howard would be able to help win more games.

Teams like the Cs, who seemingly have a great team attitude, a great coaching staff, and now a winning tradition again may even have a very difficult time getting Howard to change his ways (leave his ego in his past).


Clyde,

Sorry for the delay, I just noticed this post.

Our resident capologist here is GYSO, not me but as I understand it if Atlanta does not waive him then his new team will pick up his entire remainder of his contract.

No way I would give up any of those players either.  James Young I'd give up.  Amir I'd give up in a sign-and-trade because he's gone anyway.  Sign Amir to $12M on a one-year deal (or a one-and-one with the 2nd year unguaranteed, which is the same he has been on for the past two years) and that cuts the cost of Howard in half.  Howard for $11M/year is less painful if you like him, I guess.

I also sympathize with your question about whether he's even worth a 2nd rounder.  How does he fit into Brad's space-and-pace?  Not at all, that's how.  Would he be useful for when we play teams like Detroit, with Drummond, or LA Clippers with Jordan?  Sure, but how many times will we play teams with centers like that and do we need to spend $20M for such a player unless we are anticipating meeting those teams in the EC Finals or the Championship?  If Drummond was on Cleveland or GSW then that might make sense.

If he started for us space-and-pace is gone.  One of our strengths, now, is that Horford and play inside and outside.  Forget about him playing inside when Howard is on the floor because Howard cannot go outside and open the floor up for Horford.  Horford very rarely plays with Zeller but if he did Zeller can hit the mid-range shot and help spacing some.  Howard cannot do a pnp.  His offense is so rudimentary he cannot pop.  If IT (or Rozier or Smart or Bradley) use Howard for a screen everybody will collapse on them because there will be no fear of leaving Howard alone at the frito line.  Our offense depends upon touching the paint.  Drawing the defense in so that we can kick.  We have an excellent catch-and-shoot team, that is actually our strength, but we need people touching the paint to move the defense to give those catch-and-shooters some space so they have an open shot to knock down.  Howard won't help that at all. Therefore, a bench role might be better for him. Would he do that? My gut says no. He has always been "da man", even in LA when he wasn't. Playing 2nd fiddle to 20 year old Zizic, or whomever, would be a bitter pill for him to swallow.


bob


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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 04, 2017 10:15 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:swish got it thanks, if that's the case no way would I give this aging center 46 mill for 2 years, hes just not worth near that and had an ineffectual year and playoff. Since he left Orlando for Lakers, every situation he has not been happy and has worn out his welcome.


Cowens,

First, let me say that I agree with your position on Howard.  I am not, nor have ever been, a fan of his game and I have become even less of a fan of his as I've seen and accepted the NBA move to the perimeter.  The Atlanta Hawks were not a better team this year with him instead of Horford.

Having said all that, brother, let me ask you a question:  If you had to choose between having Howard for $47M ($23.5M/year over 2 years) or re-signing Kelly for $52M ($13M/year for 4 years) or maybe even $65M ($13M/year for 5 years), who would you rather have?  Suppose the price tag for Kelly creeps up closer to $75M ($15M/year for 5 years).  It is not inconceivable that because of the combination of Kelly's age (turned 26 in April), skill sets (a good passing and shooting 7'er) and the mark he's leaving on the playoffs-to-date (his /minute numbers in most categories are up, over his regular season averages) someone might offer him $15M.  The chit-chat with NBA GMs around the league is that he will get $13M/year at least for sure, so $14-$15M isn't that much of a jump and locking him up for more years has benefits too.

If anybody else wants to chime in on this, feel free, but I'd like to hear Cowen's opinion too.


bob


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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu May 04, 2017 10:48 am

bob I'm not crazy about either Howard is a dinosaur that can't run a high post offense or on defense get out to help out on the perimeter, Kelly is soft for all the points he may score how many does he give up on other end? Seeing him get dunked on by Gortat and not even jumping or raising his hands then flinching makes me sick to have such a softie wearing green.
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Re: Dwight Howard Likely To Only Fetch Cap Relief, 2nd Rounder On Trade Market

Post by fierce on Thu May 04, 2017 10:56 am

bob

There's no need for the Celts to sign and trade Amir because the Celts will have cap room this summer.

Right now the Celts are projected to have 29m in cap space this summer.

Celts can include Zeller in a package for Dwight or just trade a 2nd round pick for Dwight and not guarantee Zeller's contract for next season.

The Celts have until July 2 to decide to guarantee or not Zeller's contract for next season.
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