What makes Isaiah great?

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What makes Isaiah great?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed May 03, 2017 3:41 pm

In light of Isaiah's historic performance in game 2 against the Wizards, I thought I'd ask the board why you think IT is so great. Obviously, he is quick, he is confident, and he has ice in his veins. Bur another thing I have only recently begun to truly appreciate is how incredibly smart he is. Watching his highlights, its almost like he convinces (sells) his defender that a certain play is going to occur, both players begin that sequence, then IT changes the script half way through. Its more than just a good fake or deadly cross-over. Obviously, this ability depends on his phyiscal gifts, like the ability to stop on a dime, change direction, and incredible body control, but it also depends on brains. He seems to know exactly when a defender is committed to a course of action/movement, and thats exactly when he changes it up, making him essentially unstopable. I feel like there is a brilliance to his game that is only beginning to be recognized. What do you think makes IT great?

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by worcester on Wed May 03, 2017 5:52 pm

You really have your finger on something there Shamrock. He is very quick at assessing situations and opponents. Then he picks the move in a split second to initiate. In The Physics Factbook, David Parizh writes the following:

"Some kinds of signals, like the ones for muscle position travel on extra-fast nerve impulses at speeds of up to 390 feet per second (119 meter/second). Close your eyes and wave your arms around: you can tell where they are at every moment because the muscle-position nerves are very fast …. But other messages, like some kinds of pain signals travel much more slowly. If you stub your toe, you feel the pressure right away because touch signals travel at 250 feet per second. But you won't feel the pain for another two or three seconds, because pain signals generally travel an only two feet per second."

That got me thinking about Isaiah. If his speed of nerve impulses tops out at 390 feet per second and he is a foot shorter or 20% or so smaller than bigger NBA players, his nerve impulses for muscles may reach their target 20% faster than for bigs. Since Isaiah is 5.75' tall, his muscle impulses would arrive in 0.015 seconds. A player 6.75' tall would have muscle nerve impulses arrive in .0171 seconds. If Isaiah's muscle nerve impulses were a bit faster than normal, that would be an added advantage. Slight, but perhaps significant. Something is obviously going on with the man.

Cats have muscle nerve speeds much faster than humans and are much smaller, thus than can usually out zig and zag a man with ease. If anyone wants to get really wonky about this, consider:

http://www.jbc.org/content/3/5/359.full.pdf
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed May 03, 2017 6:03 pm

worcester wrote:You really have your finger on something there Shamrock. He is very quick at assessing situations and opponents. Then he picks the move in a split second to initiate. In The Physics Factbook, David Parizh writes the following:

"Some kinds of signals, like the ones for muscle position travel on extra-fast nerve impulses at speeds of up to 390 feet per second (119 meter/second). Close your eyes and wave your arms around: you can tell where they are at every moment because the muscle-position nerves are very fast …. But other messages, like some kinds of pain signals travel much more slowly. If you stub your toe, you feel the pressure right away because touch signals travel at 250 feet per second. But you won't feel the pain for another two or three seconds, because pain signals generally travel an only two feet per second."

That got me thinking about Isaiah. If his speed of nerve impulses tops out at 390 feet per second and he is a foot shorter or 20% or so smaller than bigger NBA players, his nerve impulses for muscles may reach their target 20% faster than for bigs. Since Isaiah is 5.75 tall, his muscle impulses would arrive in 0.15 seconds. A player 6.75' tall would have muscle nerve impulses arrive in .0171 seconds. If Isaiah's muscle nerve impulses were a bit faster than normal, that would be an added advantage. Slight, but perhaps significant. Something is obviously going on with the man.

Cats have muscle nerve speeds much faster than humans and are much smaller, thus than can usually out zig and zag a man with ease. If anyone wants to get really wonky about this, consider:

http://www.jbc.org/content/3/5/359.full.pdf

Interesting stuff Worcester - physics definitely supports the notion that small people are quicker. No doubt IT has extraordinary reflexes. However, I also think his brain makes decisions about where to go at an extra-ordinary rate. Somehow, he senses when his defenders momentum is large enough that he can't stop or switch direction, and at that exact moment, IT stops, or changes direction/speed as his opponent continues barrelling along in the previous direction. This is something akin to seeing how a play will unfold. Because skills like this reside in the brain, IT might continue being effective into his 30s, which goes against saying quick guards deteriorate rapidly with age as they lose quickness. IT is super quick, but he also has game vision, like Pierce did, like Tom Brady does.

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by bobheckler on Wed May 03, 2017 8:00 pm

worcester wrote:You really have your finger on something there Shamrock. He is very quick at assessing situations and opponents. Then he picks the move in a split second to initiate. In The Physics Factbook, David Parizh writes the following:

"Some kinds of signals, like the ones for muscle position travel on extra-fast nerve impulses at speeds of up to 390 feet per second (119 meter/second). Close your eyes and wave your arms around: you can tell where they are at every moment because the muscle-position nerves are very fast …. But other messages, like some kinds of pain signals travel much more slowly. If you stub your toe, you feel the pressure right away because touch signals travel at 250 feet per second. But you won't feel the pain for another two or three seconds, because pain signals generally travel an only two feet per second."

That got me thinking about Isaiah. If his speed of nerve impulses tops out at 390 feet per second and he is a foot shorter or 20% or so smaller than bigger NBA players, his nerve impulses for muscles may reach their target 20% faster than for bigs. Since Isaiah is 5.75' tall, his muscle impulses would arrive in 0.015 seconds. A player 6.75' tall would have muscle nerve impulses arrive in .0171 seconds. If Isaiah's muscle nerve impulses were a bit faster than normal, that would be an added advantage. Slight, but perhaps significant. Something is obviously going on with the man.

Cats have muscle nerve speeds much faster than humans and are much smaller, thus than can usually out zig and zag a man with ease. If anyone wants to get really wonky about this, consider:

http://www.jbc.org/content/3/5/359.full.pdf


I don't believe I'm going very far out on a limb when I say stuff like this is what separates this board from every other one.  It doesn't matter if you get off on science, you know it isn't just testosterone-driven spouting, there is intelligence behind it thoughtfully delivered.


bob


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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by swish on Wed May 03, 2017 8:31 pm

worcester wrote:You really have your finger on something there Shamrock. He is very quick at assessing situations and opponents. Then he picks the move in a split second to initiate. In The Physics Factbook, David Parizh writes the following:

"Some kinds of signals, like the ones for muscle position travel on extra-fast nerve impulses at speeds of up to 390 feet per second (119 meter/second). Close your eyes and wave your arms around: you can tell where they are at every moment because the muscle-position nerves are very fast …. But other messages, like some kinds of pain signals travel much more slowly. If you stub your toe, you feel the pressure right away because touch signals travel at 250 feet per second. But you won't feel the pain for another two or three seconds, because pain signals generally travel an only two feet per second."

That got me thinking about Isaiah. If his speed of nerve impulses tops out at 390 feet per second and he is a foot shorter or 20% or so smaller than bigger NBA players, his nerve impulses for muscles may reach their target 20% faster than for bigs. Since Isaiah is 5.75' tall, his muscle impulses would arrive in 0.015 seconds. A player 6.75' tall would have muscle nerve impulses arrive in .0171 seconds. If Isaiah's muscle nerve impulses were a bit faster than normal, that would be an added advantage. Slight, but perhaps significant. Something is obviously going on with the man.

Cats have muscle nerve speeds much faster than humans and are much smaller, thus than can usually out zig and zag a man with ease. If anyone wants to get really wonky about this, consider:

http://www.jbc.org/content/3/5/359.full.pdf

worcester

I took your advice and got a little wonky about this subject - the result was that I declared myself brain dead after just a few paragraphs. On a serious note my lengthy research into black domination in sports, where speed and quickness are of extreme importance, led me to articles by Jon Entine about fast and slow twitch muscle fiber. Are the articles by Entine legit ? - and if they are do they tie in with this article about muscle nerve impulses ?

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by worcester on Wed May 03, 2017 10:01 pm

About my previous post, there was a typo. I wrote:
"his muscle impulses would arrive in 0.15 seconds. " That should have been .015 seconds.

Swish, I haven't read Entine's work, but I will check it out.

Here's an interesting study from the NIH Library - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741

J Natl Cancer Inst. 1986 Jan;76(1):45-8.
Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men.

Ross R, Bernstein L, Judd H, Hanisch R, Pike M, Henderson B.
Abstract
Blacks in the United States have the highest prostate cancer rate in the world and nearly twice that of whites in the United States. The 2:1 black-to-white ratio in prostate cancer rates is already apparent at age 45 years, the age at which the earliest prostate cancer cases occur. This finding suggests that the factor(s) responsible for the difference in rates occurs, or first occurs, early in life. Testosterone has been hypothesized to play a role in the etiology of prostate cancer, because testosterone and its metabolite, dihydrotestosterone, are the principal trophic hormones that regulate growth and function of epithelial prostate tissue. This report gives the results of assays of circulating steroid hormone levels in white and black college students in Los Angeles, CA. Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant. Adjustment by analysis of covariance for time of sampling, age, weight, alcohol use, cigarette smoking, and use of prescription drugs somewhat reduced the differences. After these adjustments were made, blacks had a 15% higher testosterone level and a 13% higher free testosterone level. A 15% difference in circulating testosterone levels could readily explain a twofold difference in prostate cancer risk.
PMID: 3455741

From this and other research I've read I've concluded that African American boys in general have higher levels of testosterone than whites. This might account in part for their dominance in certain sports, but I don't want this to be taken in any way as an excuse to disrespect their accomplishments in sports which primarily come from long hours of dedicated hard work and practice, practice, practice.
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu May 04, 2017 12:03 pm

I am not scientific, not as extremely well read as Worcester of even you Swish, but my thinking on this subject is simple.

IT is one of the smartest "small" ballplayers I have ever watched He also has a heart as big as his body. His determination to show everyone how wrong they were at picking him last is unbelievable. He works hard on his game all year long and it has shown. He also has the right coach coaching him daily. Brad has given him the room to grow and is not afraid of letting him "go" when he feels it is necessary.

Sometimes it is just simple. He is good, damn good and takes help from wherever he can get it. That is one smart basketball player. Look, he even is letting Kobe help him, he is not too proud to take the help. God gave him special talents and he is trying to use them to make himself a better player and man.

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 04, 2017 12:18 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I am not scientific, not as extremely well read as Worcester of even you Swish, but my thinking on this subject is simple.

IT is one of the smartest "small" ballplayers I have ever watched He also has a heart as big as his body. His determination to show everyone how wrong they were at picking him last is unbelievable. He works hard on his game all year long and it has shown.  He also has the right coach coaching him daily. Brad has given him the room to grow and is not afraid of letting him "go" when he feels it is necessary.  

Sometimes it is just simple.  He is good, damn good and takes help from wherever he can get it.  That is one smart basketball player.  Look, he even is letting Kobe help him, he is not too proud to take the help.  God gave him special talents and he is trying to use them to make himself a better player and man.



Rosalie,

The reason why IT wears his heart on his sleeve is because it's too big for his body.


bob


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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu May 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Bob

No question there. He is a hell of a kid. I can only hope for his sake it all continues and he shows all those non believers just what kind of a player he is
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by worcester on Thu May 04, 2017 12:31 pm

Rosalie, you have the best answer to what makes Isaiah so great. I also bet he's tuned in to God as well.
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by sinus007 on Thu May 04, 2017 12:53 pm

Hi,
I don't know much about human physiology and why and how IT does what he does, but for today's game:
May 4th be with the King of the 4th, IT4!
Basketball Basketball Basketball Basketball
queen queen queen queen

AK
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by swish on Thu May 04, 2017 1:57 pm

Much has been said about the physical abuse that Thomas has to deal with because of his SIZE(5'9") - While he is short, he is far from being a puny light weight guard. At 185 lbs he fits very well with several other small guards of distinction ( 6'3" or shorter that averaged 16 points or better this past year )

 See below link.
  http://bkref.com/tiny/Oq0fW

   
     Note the weight of the players

  swish

 Oops - neglected to list their weights.

#1 - 200
#2 - 185
#3 - 195
#4 - 190
#5 - 193
#6 - 172
#7 - 205
#8 - 190
#9 - 175
#10 - 190
#11 - 175
#12 - 190
#13 - 172
#14 - 180

  swish


Last edited by swish on Thu May 04, 2017 8:33 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : add weights)

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by NYCelt on Thu May 04, 2017 2:04 pm

Great topic and, as BobH mentioned, intelligent, thought provoking posts.

I'm going with something Rosalie said; determination.

Back in July, I had posted some thoughts and pictures when my son attended IT's basketball camp.  A clip quoting myself from that thread.  Especially note the underlined passage...

"My wife and I stuck around to listen to IT's message to the players about personal responsibility, academic achievement, the value of discipline, dedicated practice and respect and were quite impressed.  He's very well spoken and delivers his message in a calm, self assured way.  He repeatedly hit home on the theme that you shouldn't let anyone tell you that you cannot do something; that you can be whatever you want if you want it badly enough and constantly work hard toward your goals.

My son talked with him a little one-on-one and asked him what it felt like to be one of the shortest players in the NBA.  Part of Thomas' response was that every time he takes the floor he feels like he's one of the tallest."

He couldn't emphasize it enough '...you shouldn't let anyone tell you that you cannot do something; that you can be whatever you want if you want it badly enough and constantly work hard toward your goals.'  He practically seemed to be coming out of his skin as he repeated this, the only time he betrayed his even demeanor.  He seemed to have a real need to convince every kid in that gym that this was his secret, and more so, that it was the secret.

There's that often discussed chip on his shoulder.

And that leads to one inescapable factor.  Determination.

Watch closely, because you've probably noticed that well outside of our little green world, this story has grown larger by the day.  We're watching one of the biggest sports stories in recent memory unfold, and it's being driven by a 5'9" giant of a basketball player.

What makes IT so great?  I think Rosalie got it right.  Determination.

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Thu May 04, 2017 2:42 pm

NY Celt...when i was in rehab in Cambridge for six weeks there was a physician's assistant who helped me on weekends. We talked at great length about our kids, although the ages were far apart. Her little boy was 9 years old and a real small 9 years old. He loved basketball though. So she signed him up to one of IT's camps. He had a great time, and one day when others had left the court he stayed to shoot all by himself. IT walked over and started to talk to him. He asked him how he could EVER get to be a good shooter because he was so small, much smaller than his friends. IT proceeded to give the kid almost the same talk he gave your son. The kid was thrilled, carried that with him all summer long and he went to other camps feeling better about himself and trying to live up to IT's words.

This guy is a prize for the Boston Celtics. He goes all over town, finding kids in playgrounds, and shooting with them. In the meantime he talks to them about his determination to be the best he can be. I am so grateful to see a guy like this representing the Celtics, with all that is going on in this city.

So I will agree that his determination is unmatched. And I think we have not seen the best yet.
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu May 04, 2017 4:29 pm

NYCelt wrote:

Watch closely, because you've probably noticed that well outside of our little green world, this story has grown larger by the day.  We're watching one of the biggest sports stories in recent memory unfold, and it's being driven by a 5'9" giant of a basketball player.


You nailed. The rest of the country is finally seeing what we have been seeing all year long. Its tough for people to realize just how good this guy is. People are so engrained to think 5'9" is just too small, they watch IT do his thing, but always qualify it, and try and and say he is "B" level star (e.g. "no other scorer on the Celtics", "yeah, but he's a liability on defense"). I am guilty of this myself. But, the guy has done it night in and night out for 90 games this season, and he just keeps getting better. We are witnessing a special player coming into his prime.

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu May 04, 2017 4:36 pm

bobheckler wrote:

The reason why IT wears his heart on his sleeve is because it's too big for his body.


bob


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Well said...

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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 04, 2017 7:14 pm

Here's Brad Stevens' thought on this:





bob


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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by NYCelt on Thu May 04, 2017 9:01 pm

bobheckler wrote:Here's Brad Stevens' thought on this:





bob


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Bob,

Sounds like Brad is on the same page with Rosalie too.

I'd say he even ups it from "determination" to "driven."

Regards
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Re: What makes Isaiah great?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri May 05, 2017 1:30 am

I would equate discipline with determination, they both go hand in hand and as your building all this, if you do it correctly and with discipline you should also develop durability. Without durability you can't play this game all out at this level and stay on the floor. You have to get into a routine, get it fully, mastered to an extent and then go on to the next drill, sequence to develop all the counters. Hes worked with trainers, coaches and knows how to work, how well one can discipline himself and work to transform his abilities to their highest levels is what all the greatest athletes and fighters have had. Paul Pierce obviously also had it and hoping Jaylen Brown has this rare ability to put the necessary work in day in and day out to transform to that special level.
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