POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by 112288 on Mon May 08, 2017 12:57 pm

bobheckler wrote:
112288 wrote:Bob,

KO missed 2 KEY 3 pt shots in the second quarter that could have stopped their come back of 12 points.   He got soft buckets.

Crowder could not hit a barn when he needed to.  Outside of IT - Green is the only guy on the team that can light it up..........but they never run plays through him!   I just do not understand.

112288



112288,

We didn't lose by 19 points because Kelly didn't stop their comeback from 12 points down.  The numbers don't work.

At 7:28 in the 2nd we had a 40-28 lead.  Morris missed a 5' shot (Kelly's man?).  Al got the rebound and turned it over.

At 6:47 Kelly blocked John Wall's layup.  Gortat scored off the offensive rebound.  Someone should have rotated and picked up Kelly's man while he was trying to protect the rim vs Wall.  But Kelly stopped the ball on the initial penetration.  Lead down to 10 on the Gortat score.

At 6:22 Smart turned the ball over, fouled Wall, who made both fritos.  Lead down to 8 on the Wall fritos.

At 6:05 Smart missed a 3pt fga.  Was that a key 3pt miss that cost us the 12 point lead too?  

At 5:50 Wall hits a 3pt fga.  Lead down to 5.

At 4:39 Bradley made driving dunk.  Lead up to 7 on Bradley score.

At 4:05 Smart is fouled by Morris.  He misses BOTH fritos.

At 4:05 Kelly Olynyk is replaced by Amir.  The score is 42-35, a 7 point lead.

At 3:12 Kelly comes back in for Amir.  The score is 42-39, a 3pt lead, down from the 7 point lead when Kelly left.  4 points off the lead in just :53 seconds with Kelly on the bench, replaced by the better defender, but the Celtics do not score a single point as they give up those points.


At 3:00, in the Celtic's first possession after Kelly came back in, Kelly hits a 2' shot.  Lead up to 5.

At 2:25 Kelly misses a 3.  Lead still at 5.

At 1:49 Kelly misses another 3.  Lead still at 5.

At 1:36 Gortat gets a layup off Wall assist.  Lead 3.

At 1:19 IT misses a layup.  A key miss?

At 1:14 Crowder fouls Porter and Porter hits 2 fta.  Lead down to 1.

At :58 Crowder misses 3pt fga.  Key miss?  Any less key than any other?

At :54 Wall hits a 2.  Washington leads by 1.

At :43 Horford gets a tip-in.  Celtics by 1.

At :36 Wall hits a 3.  Wiz by 2

At :18 Horford gets 2.  Tie score at the half.

You see Kelly miss a few shots, you see the lead go down and, because you don't like Kelly, you attribute his missed shots to the result but Kelly wasn't the reason why John Wall scored 5 points, he's the reason why Wall didn't score 7 points by blocking his layup and the type of misses you are pointing to didn't happen during that stretch of the game.  Also, the lead dropped from 7 down to 3 while Kelly was on the bench and Amir was in for him.  We lost 3 points off that lead, to have a tie at halftime, but Wall was going off and that's not Kelly's man.  We scored 6 points in the final 3:12 and Kelly had 2 of them.  4 points off the 7 point lead, down to a 3 point lead, in the :53 Kelly was on the bench and then another 3 points off that to tie it up in the remaining 3:12 seconds with Kelly in.  It took 3:12 to give up 3 points with Kelly in and <1 minute to give up 3 points with Amir in. That's why Brad rushed Kelly back in.

The reason why we lost this game is because of that AWFUL 42-20 3rd quarter.  How many key shots did Kelly miss in that quarter?  Answer:  Zero.  Kelly took zero fgas in the 3rd quarter.  He had 8 points at the half on 3-7 shooting (0-4 from 3) in 13 minutes and 10 points after 3 on 3-7 shooting in 19 minutes.  His two points came from ftm.  If you want to blame Kelly for not shooting more in the 3rd you might have a point, but you can't blame his poor shooting in the 3rd for the debacle because he only shot fritos.  He ended the game with 14 points on 5-9 shooting (still 0-3 from 3) in 23 minutes.  So, he played 4 minutes in the 4th and was 2-2.  He ended up with 2 blocks.  No other Celtic player had 2 blocks.

This is why I copy-and-paste the boxscore after each quarter, when I can (and would appreciate someone else doing it for the games where I am not active on the Game On thread).  It is to back up, or refute, confirmation bias.

Do "soft points" count for less than "hard points"?



Cowens,

After a couple of games where scoring has been a problem Kelly scored over his average points, on over his average fg% and had over his average blocks and he did it while getting booed every time he touched the ball.  Yes, I absolutely, positively, unquestionably call that 'showing heart'.

Let's boil our offensive problems down.  We shot 44% for the game.  If you shot under 44% you are part of our offensive problem and if you shot over 44% you are part of our offensive solution.  This is simplistic, it doesn't take into account assists and turnovers, but it's a start.

Part of the Solution:

Kelly - 5-9, 55.5%, 23 minutes
Rozier - 5-10, 50%, 22 minutes
IT - 7-14, 50%, 31 minutes
Horford - 5-10, 50%, 32 minutes
Amir - 2-3, 66.7%, 12 minutes
Green - 2-3, 66.7%, 10 minutes
Zeller - 2-3, 66.7%, 5 minutes
Brown - 1-2, 50%, 7 minutes

Total - 29-53, 54.7%, 142 minutes.  82.8% of fgm, 67% of fga, 59% of total player minutes

Green, Zeller and Brown were garbage time minutes.  The real load-bearers were the heavier-minute, prime-time players Kelly, Rozier, Horford and IT and they shot a combined 22-43, 51.1% in 108 minutes.  60 points in 108 minutes is .555 points/minute.  That includes ftm.


Part of the Problem:

Crowder - 2-9, 22.2%, 31 minutes
Bradley - 2-9, 22.2%, 33 minutes
Smart - 2-7, 28.6%, 27 minutes

Total - 6-25, 24%, 91 minutes.  17% of fgm, 31.6% of fga, 38% of total player minutes.  20 points total, including ftm, in 91 minutes is .22 points/minute.  A large chunk of the total shots taken, a large chunk of total player minutes but an almost insignificant amount of scoring.

Who is the problem here?  Not Kelly.  Nope, sorry, but I give you an 'A' for effort.  Not Rozier.  IT scored 2 points in the entire 2nd half and took 0 ftas all game.  Bradley can't play through a hip pointer?!  Hip pointers are annoying but they are hardly a debilitating injury.  He took 0 fgas in the 3rd quarter, where we were getting obliterated.  Zero.  Crowder is shooting 41.7% in the playoffs after, 33% from 3 after shooting 38% during the season (0-3 last night).  Jae was 0-2 in the 3rd.  I'm not sure which is worse, the measly 2 fgas or that he didn't hit anything.  Smart played 8 minutes out of 12 in that horrendous 3rd quarter.  In fact, the entire team was 5-16 in the 3rd quarter.  The Wizards were 13-20 in the 3rd quarter.  They had almost as many fgm as we had fgas.  Who is to blame for that?  Who is the problem?  I'd point the finger at the starters who started the 3rd and played most of those minutes instead of picking on a player who was the #3 Celtic scorer last night after IT (who did 90% of his scoring in the 1st half and pulled a David Blaine disappearing act in the 2nd) and Rozier.

Kelly and Rozier were probably the only glimmers in the whole freaking game that wasn't garbage time and the entire 4th quarter was garbage time because of Bradley, Crowder and Smart and the disappearance of IT.  Yeah, I call that 'heart' and 'Pride' by Kelly and Rozier.


It is starting to become clear to me that we are not going to win this series by shutting their offense down.  I have seen zero evidence of us being able to stop their pnrs.  I have seen zero evidence of us stopping Wall and, when he is going he gets Beal and Gortat and Porter involved.  We are going to have to win it by outscoring them and to do that you need offensive players on the court.


bob


.

Bob,

If Kelly hits those shots and Crowder hits his the Celtics would be up 15 - 18 points and they would be the team under pressure. Please, I saw him miss wide open shots with my own eyes and as about to throw my sneaker at my wide screen TV. KO stats are soft stats......plain and simple he is either hot or cold with no in be tween..

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobheckler on Mon May 08, 2017 12:59 pm

112288 wrote:
Rmbone wrote:
112288 wrote:Bob,

KO missed 2 KEY 3 pt shots in the second quarter that could have stopped their come back of 12 points.   He got soft buckets.

Crowder could not hit a barn when he needed to.  Outside of IT - Green is the only guy on the team that can light it up..........but they never run plays through him!   I just do not understand.

112288

Confirmation bias at its worst. You don't like KO, so you place extreme importance on his few small mistakes. KO was the least of our problems. He played a great game and he's been great the whole playoffs.

As if the second quarter had anything to do with the loss. It was the blowout 3rd quarter, and Brad's refusal to put guys like KO and Rozier and Jaylen in earlier that f#cked us.

Rabone,

The game was decided in the 2nd period.  I turned on with the Celtics up 12 and possession.  KO missed 2 wide open 3's, Crowder a few 3's, Bradley a few missed shots and before you knew it we ended tied.   If we came out up 10 - 12 pts, the third period would not have turned out as it did.

Scal made a great observation.  The Celtics look to their offense first to begin their defense instead of looking to get stops when their offense begins to suck.  They are not playing playoff basketball and we have been exposed in a big way to all our short comings.  

Further Steven's finally said he should have used all their timeouts in the third.  DAAAAAAAA!  What a revelation.  I posted that he allowed the game to get out of reach in game #3 when Stevens failed to slow the pace and the onslaught of Washington.  In a way Stevens is being exposed for his coaching flaws as well by  Scott who sucks as a coach.

112288


112288,

We lost the 3rd quarter 42-20 and you're saying that the game was lost in the 2nd quarter, a quarter we lost by only 4 points and came out of tied 48-48?  How can a game be lost if you're tied and have 24 minutes of game ahead of you against a team missing their 1st player off the bench?  Are you saying our defense would have been better in the 3rd quarter if we started it up 10-12 points?  I do NOT understand this.  Why would our defense be better when we have a double-digit lead than when we're tied and in a dogfight?  


bob

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by wideclyde on Mon May 08, 2017 2:02 pm

Ouch! Yes, a very poor game (3rd quarter) and even a bad two games in Washington.

But, I am not throwing our guys under any bulldozer for lack of character and guts. These guys have not played really well, but I am going to stand right with them by saying that they are certainly not not trying to play their best. They have proven to all of us that they do care and that they play hard for Coach Stevens and their teammates ALL the time.

Each year the guys who are the core of our team have earned more and more wins. No team does this with guys who don't care or do not play hard. Hey, perhaps earning the first seed this year was somewhat tainted by Cleveland resting their big guys a few times during the latter part of the season, but that does not change what the Cs have been doing since Stevens arrived. His team consistently gets better each year mostly by his players getting better and better each season. No such progress comes from not caring or not playing hard.

Right now, Washington is a bad match up, but that does not mean that this series is over. How many of us actually thought that any series in the playoffs this year would be a cakewalk?

Win on Wednesday and we are back in the driver's seat. It will be a tough game to win, but I do not expect any more than that from my seat on the couch.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by 112288 on Mon May 08, 2017 4:06 pm

Bob,

Let me make it simple, we lost a 12 point lead that could have been up to a 18 pt or 20 pt lead. I do not look at quarters as that is misleading. If we hit our shots, we are up 18 - 20 pts and Washington is playing panic mode basketball.

KO is expected to hit those type of shots, that is why he is getting those minutes. He is not getting minutes at 7' to rebound and be a rim protector. He cannot box out and smaller guys are out rebounding/jumping him. He is a joke at center.

Despite the fact that Ray Allan could not play defense, he was there to score and score he did when counted on. HE HIT THE BIG SHOT WHEN NEEDED TO DEFLAT ANY COME BACK ATTEMPT BY OPPOSING TEAMS. HE WAS YOUR ASSASSIN OR DO WE ALL FORGET!

We lost by 19 pts............add 12 from their comeback and that is 32 pts they out scored us. At times the it was over 40 points!


It would have been a different second half if we went into the locker room up 12 - 15 points!

112288


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by swish on Mon May 08, 2017 4:15 pm

A losers lament - if,if,,if

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Mon May 08, 2017 4:57 pm

The problem is clear or at least it should be to everyone.

KO is probably the 2nd best big on the team behind AH.

Kelly is an average basketball player and I think he has already hit his ceiling. Most improved aspect of his game this year is setting up in the post and shielding the defender from being able to steal the ball.

Confounding aspect..he misses the front end of most free throw attempts... he has NO rhythm and looks particularly clumsy and awkward handling the ball..cannot defend out to the perimeter, stands around too much and is slow o react to help defense needs. Is a good percentage shooter but cannot be counted on to make the big wide open shot. Averaging 8.8 PPG and only 3 rebounds. The Celtics will never be a serious contender until they get rid of KO and upgrade their frontline.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by gyso on Mon May 08, 2017 5:53 pm

We suck because of Kelly Olynyk. Okay, I got it.

Oh yeah, before I forget, Brad sucks too. Effing loser.

Oy vey!

Rolling Eyes

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Mon May 08, 2017 6:03 pm

gyso wrote:We suck because of Kelly Olynyk.  Okay, I got it.  

Oh yeah, before I forget, Brad sucks too.  Effing loser.

Oy vey!

Rolling Eyes

No not because of KO. We need to upgrade our frontline. Outside of AH you could get rid of the lot and I would not be upset.

We need a reliable scorer/shooter off the bench which i have been saying for long time.

There is nothing new here. I always thought KO was an average basketball player but I thought that he would show more during the playoffs and maybe earn a new contract. For me that is still up in the air.

I still expect us to win this series.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by 112288 on Mon May 08, 2017 8:46 pm

dboss wrote:
gyso wrote:We suck because of Kelly Olynyk.  Okay, I got it.  

Oh yeah, before I forget, Brad sucks too.  Effing loser.

Oy vey!

Rolling Eyes

No not because of KO.   We need to upgrade our frontline.  Outside of AH you could get rid of the lot and I would not be upset.

We need a reliable scorer/shooter off the bench which i have been saying for long time.

There is nothing new here.  I always thought KO was an average basketball player but I thought that he would show more during the playoffs and maybe earn a new contract.  For me that is still up in the air.

I still expect us to win this series.  

dboss

I agree 100% with your assessment!

GYSO when did you become such a big defender of KO - if he was on the 2008-2012 team he would be 10th man or perhaps wind up like Scal.  What dBoss, Cowen and I are saying is this team as a whole needs a revamping. KO is just average and nothing more.  If you are content on this type of hoops.........keep KO and the rest of the team but don't set your horizon on banner #18!

Crowder can be replaced or become a 6th man off the bench but he is not quite there as a starter.....and again not consistent shooter.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by NYCelt on Mon May 08, 2017 9:50 pm

I'm glad no-one here is overreacting.


Last edited by NYCelt on Mon May 08, 2017 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Mon May 08, 2017 9:53 pm

Speaking of lite weight production, AB has not been good enough on offense   Now we hear that the other hip gotta pointer too.

Too many nickel and dime injuries.  I really like AB but I think it may be time to move him if you can get a star!  

We could pretty much go down the list and find a reasonable exception to the quality of their play.

But this time now the team must pull together and win this series.  

Look for a win in game 5.  

dboss


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Mon May 08, 2017 9:59 pm

112288

I thought DA addressed upgrade at the 3 by drafting Brown.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon May 08, 2017 10:36 pm

dboss wrote:The problem is clear or at least it should be to everyone.

KO is probably the 2nd best big on the team behind AH.

Kelly is an average basketball player and I think he has already hit his ceiling.  Most improved aspect of his game this year is setting up in the post and shielding the defender from being able to steal the ball.

Confounding aspect..he misses the front end of most free throw attempts... he has NO rhythm and looks particularly clumsy and awkward handling the ball..cannot defend out to the perimeter, stands around too much and is slow o react to help defense needs.  Is a good percentage shooter but cannot be counted on to make the big wide open shot.  Averaging 8.8 PPG and only 3 rebounds.  The Celtics will never be a serious contender until they get rid of KO and upgrade their frontline.  

dboss





if Kelly is your second best big your in deep shit.....damn did we overachieve just to get here. I understand every now and then he blocks a shot, but I see far too many instances he shies away from contact and too many times opposing players shoot it right in his face like butter.
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Mon May 08, 2017 10:51 pm

We just need him to play like our #2 big...because that is all we have.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 08, 2017 11:07 pm

Funny how nobody else in the league is expected to shoot 100% from 3 in the playoffs except Kelly freaking Olynyk.

Give me F%#$%$ break.

Larry Bird was a career 32% 3 point shooter in the playoffs. Olynyk shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs, not bad for a 7 footer.

People see what they want to see, no matter what. They'll jump to the most ridiculous conclusions to justify and confirm their pre-existing bias.

Oh yeah, the game was over at halftime, with a tied score. The 26-0 Wizards run to start the 3rd was Kelly Olynyk's fault, for not shooting 100% from 3 like his biggest haters "expect" him to. Rolling Eyes

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 08, 2017 11:11 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:There are no keepers on this flawed team. There are players who will be here next year but it will be because they weren't able to be upgraded. I miss Sam the most when there is no check to the heartless posts by board members.

There are no keepers on the #1 seed in the East? Let me guess, you thought last season was a fluke and the Celtics would be lucky to win 48 games again this year.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by NYCelt on Mon May 08, 2017 11:23 pm

rambone,

I think you're misinterpreting mulcogi's post.

I can't speak for him, but I think that was supposed to be a sarcastic remark.

It looks like he was making a sarcastic comment about all the whining and over-reaction going on in this thread.  If so, I think you and he are more or less on the same page.

If so, I also agree with him.

Regards
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 08, 2017 11:43 pm

NYCelt wrote:rambone,

I think you're misinterpreting mulcogi's post.

I can't speak for him, but I think that was supposed to be a sarcastic remark.

It looks like he was making a sarcastic comment about all the whining and over-reaction going on in this thread.  If so, I think you and he are more or less on the same page.

If so, I also agree with him.

Regards

Thanks, NY Celt. Glad to hear it was sarcastic. Sorry mulcogi!

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 09, 2017 12:46 am

Rmbone wrote:Funny how nobody else in the league is expected to shoot 100% from 3 in the playoffs except Kelly freaking Olynyk.

Give me F%#$%$ break.

Larry Bird was a career 32% 3 point shooter in the playoffs. Olynyk shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs, not bad for a 7 footer.

People see what they want to see, no matter what. They'll jump to the most ridiculous conclusions to justify and confirm their pre-existing bias.

Oh yeah, the game was over at halftime, with a tied score. The 26-0 Wizards run to start the 3rd was Kelly Olynyk's fault, for not shooting 100% from 3 like his biggest haters "expect" him to. Rolling Eyes


putting Bird, a top 5 player of all time and Kelly in the same sentence is as ridiculous as KO's game. Bird made so many other big plays during the course of a game that the missed 3 or hitting the dagger 3 was great, but he always made enough other plays to always lead/carry his team. Kelly is so terrible in most phases for a 7 ft dare I say PF that the one thing he can or is supposed to do is hit his shot and that's the 3 as hes a soft stretch 4, that's his role. Where did anyone say we expect KO to hit 100% from 3? am I missing something? FYI Bird came into the league with a broken/dislocated finger on his shooting hand, his earlier years he wasn't hitting the 3 ball as good as the middle and later years, as twice he led the league in 3's in a completely different era, where teams gave you the 3 and packed the paint. I'll take Birds ability to make big plays and hit big shots and big 3's over some spazz who might have a better %, but sucks so bad all over the floor.
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 am

Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by 112288 on Tue May 09, 2017 8:20 am

dBoss,

Yes but Brown is still learning the game and Stevens controls his minutes. I would like to see Brown start just to spice it up. He brings a lot of energy. He and Rozier could change the tempo of the game.

Perhaps George or Butler to replace Crowder.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Ktronic1 on Tue May 09, 2017 9:33 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
112288 wrote:Bob,

KO missed 2 KEY 3 pt shots in the second quarter that could have stopped their come back of 12 points.   He got soft buckets.

Crowder could not hit a barn when he needed to.  Outside of IT - Green is the only guy on the team that can light it up..........but they never run plays through him!   I just do not understand.

112288


couldn't agree with you more, I thought key bad stretch of the game was in 2nd with 12 point lead we got great looks, but AB, Kelly, Crowder all missed wide wide open 3's with no one near them....next thing you know it was tied and then we really got exposed. KO has heart, really....???? see all the numerous times he gets shoved around paint like a fockin ragdoll!!!

Agree Kelly missed too many open 3s. Isn't that supposed to be his specialty? Smart is having a bad series but he has more heart sitting on this bench then kelly will Ever have. You cant push around a guy who has heart,
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 09, 2017 9:42 am

Rmbone wrote:Funny how nobody else in the league is expected to shoot 100% from 3 in the playoffs except Kelly freaking Olynyk.

Give me F%#$%$ break.

Larry Bird was a career 32% 3 point shooter in the playoffs. Olynyk shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs, not bad for a 7 footer.

People see what they want to see, no matter what. They'll jump to the most ridiculous conclusions to justify and confirm their pre-existing bias.

Oh yeah, the game was over at halftime, with a tied score. The 26-0 Wizards run to start the 3rd was Kelly Olynyk's fault, for not shooting 100% from 3 like his biggest haters "expect" him to. Rolling Eyes


Rambone,

We keep getting dragged into this whirlpool whenever the names Olynyk and Bird are mentioned in the same post.  I understand what you are trying to say, that Kelly is a better 3pt shooter than Bird, but the game is more than just that.  I suggest you find another player, one who is more of a role player like Kelly, to compare him to.  How about Channing Frye, of Portland/Phoenix and now Cleveland fame?  How about journeyman Spencer Hawes?  I would take Kelly in a NY second over either of those players.  Frye has taken 39.7% of all his fgas from 3, career, and has hit 38.9% on them.  Kelly has taken 36.8% of his fgas from 3 and has hit 36.8%.  Somewhat close, right?  The difference between the two, however, is what they do when they aren't shooting 3s.  Kelly took 36.6% of his shots this year from 0-3', at the rim, and hit 75% of them.  Frye career average is 13.3% of his shots from 0-3' and hit 60.8% of them.  So Kelly scores MUCH more at the rim than Channing Frye, is more effective when he does and is comparable from 3.  Frye is not as good a passer as Kelly, not as good a rebounder as Kelly and, no, he is not as good a defender as Kelly.  And yet Channing Frye has been in the league 12 years, vs 4 years for Kelly, and is currently playing rotation minutes for the Cavaliers.  How much do you want to bet Cavalier fans don't blame him if Cleveland loses? How much do you want to bet they focus on the big-minute players, the starters, and would dismiss any attempt to blame it on a bench role player?

Everybody was quick to judge Billups and Johnson and point out their shortcomings too.  Kelly is only 25 years old.  


I still say the idea that Kelly's 3 missed 3pt fgas in the 2nd quarter being the reason why we lost is a stretch-and-a-half.  Suppose he hit all 3 of them?  That would have made him an impressive 3-4 from 3 on the night instead of 0-4, given him 23 points (a BIG night for Kelly!), we would have been up by 9 at the half instead of tied, and we still would have lost by 10.  Being down 9 at the half to Washington in Washington, instead of tied, is not a game changing score.  Scott Brooks and John Wall are not going to go into panic mode being down only 3-4 possessions with 40+ possessions yet to play in the second 24-minute half.  That's a two mini-runs. Being down 10 after 3 is still doable, especially for a team that scores as well as them, 10 points at the half isn't panic time, it's motivation and execution time.  

Put another way, suppose we were down 9 at the half at home, would we panic?  N.O.


bob


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 09, 2017 9:51 am

I wasn't even trying to argue that KO is a better 3 point shooter than Bird, just that it's absurd for KO's biggest detractors pretending that KO should be expected to hit every single 3 point shot he takes. Even Warriors fans don't expect Curry or Klay to make any given 3 point shot. Probably because Warriors fans don't hate Curry and Klay.

And if Kelly had scored 23 points rather than the still-impressive 14 points, KO's detractors would still dismiss it as irrelevant, because he didn't rebound the ball.

KO's been playing better than 80-90% of the roster these playoffs, but the hate runs deep.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by worcester on Tue May 09, 2017 10:00 am

What is it with the Kelly hate, really? He's playing ok, not great, but ok, while there are others on this team clearly playing sub-par. Plus Brad is making tactical and strategic errors that will be the subject of study in some NBA coaching school someday. Let's hope this all gets sorted out Wednesday night. Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan.
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

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