POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 09, 2017 11:06 am

Rmbone wrote:Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?


he had a moment to do his job, he failed miserably
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 09, 2017 11:11 am

Rmbone wrote:I wasn't even trying to argue that KO is a better 3 point shooter than Bird, just that it's absurd for KO's biggest detractors pretending that KO should be expected to hit every single 3 point shot he takes. Even Warriors fans don't expect Curry or Klay to make any given 3 point shot. Probably because Warriors fans don't hate Curry and Klay.

And if Kelly had scored 23 points rather than the still-impressive 14 points, KO's detractors would still dismiss it as irrelevant, because he didn't rebound the ball.

KO's been playing better than 80-90% of the roster these playoffs, but the hate runs deep.


nobody hates him, we don't know him personally, we hate that hes a 7 footer that is soo soft and we have to watch him play.
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 09, 2017 11:13 am

he got zero rebounds last game, how does a 7 foot big do that, are you nuts.....?????

rebounding doesn't matter in your vision
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 09, 2017 11:28 am

I'm here to shoot 3's, let the little guys rebound !! that philosophy is the new NBA, 3's 3's 3's
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Tue May 09, 2017 11:39 am

KO cannot be blamed for the Celtics losing 2 games on the road. However we got killed on the glass and no rebounds by KO really hurt the team. Good players find a way to give the team what it needs most.

But again there is plenty of issues to spread around. Collectively the team was horrid.

There are 2 players on this team that have performed well, Al Horford and Terry Rozier. The rest of the bunch have played inconsistent. IT gets a pass because of l the personal tragedy that he has faced combined with the very serious oral health issue.

Coach gets an "f" because he cannot devise a defense to defend the P n R.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 09, 2017 11:47 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?


he had a moment to do his job, he failed miserably


He shot 5-9.  The team shot 44%.  He averaged 9ppg in 20.5mpg during the season and is averaging 8.8ppg in 19mpg in the playoffs (.439 points/minute season and .463 points/minute playoffs) and scored 14 points in 23 minutes on Sunday (.608 points/minute).  How is that "failing miserably"?!  If every other player failed that miserably we would have won the game.  He had 2 blocks.  That's more than any other Celtic, that pathetically soft loser. The players he was mostly matched up against was Jason Smith (7 minutes) and Ian Mahinmi (13 minutes). In their combined 20 minutes they scored 7 points on 3-4, vs Kelly's 14 in 23 on 5-9. Mahinmi scored 1 point, courtesy of a DUMB Marcus Smart foul as the shot clock running down and Mahinmi 12' out and moving that put him on the frito line. Kelly sucks.

Marcus Smart was 2-7 and stopped NOBODY.  He committed several really dumb fouls that broke our momentum and gave them some.  Was Smart a "miserable failure"?

Avery Bradley was 2-9, 1-5 from 3, for 5 points.  His average in the playoffs is 14ppg.  Wall scored 27 and had 13 points.  Is Avery Bradley a "miserable failure" too?

Jae Crowder was 2-9 and 0-3 from 3.  0-3, from 3, is not much worse than Kelly's 0-4 and Jae is a better 3pt shooter this year than Kelly.  Kelly's 3pt fg% is UP in the playoffs, as is his 3pt fgas/minute. So, Kelly is taking more and hitting a higher percentage of them. Crowder's 3pt fg% and 3pt fgas are both DOWN in the playoffs. Is Jae Crowder a "miserable failure" too?  Morris, playing with a bad ankle, scored 16 points on 5-12 and grabbed 10 rebounds.

Every one of those 3 players played more minutes than Kelly.  Every one of those 3 players are more key, more important, than Kelly.  How come you aren't calling them "miserable failures"?  It's amazing you are calling Kelly a failure when he played better than his average, despite being booed every time he touched the ball, but aren't describing players you like the same way despite the obvious fact that their play was far, far inferior.

Being macho is good.  Exhibiting a strong desire to win is great, I believe I am the one who coined the term "ganas" to define the competitive "fire in the belly" drive to win, but if you do not back it up with performance then it's just feel-good posturing.  Jae can flex his muscles and Smart can howl at the moon and Bradley can do whatever, but if they shoot like this tomorrow we will be in deep shit and it will not matter even one tiny, insignificant amount what Kelly does or does not do.

Washington scored 121 points on 52.4%. That speaks more to our defense, translate that to Smart/Bradley/Jae, than anything. Or should I say lack of defense.

And, of course, that's Kelly's fault too since his job is to be the defensive linchpin of this team...

Is it possible some people are getting down on Kelly because they don't want to talk the same way about players they like, players for whom defensive failure goes directly to their specific reason for being on the team, so you go after the player you don't like instead?


bob


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 09, 2017 11:48 am

dboss wrote:KO cannot be blamed for the Celtics losing 2 games on the road.  However we got killed on the glass and no rebounds by KO really hurt the team.   Good players find a way to give the team what it needs most.

But again there is plenty of issues to spread around.  Collectively the team was horrid.

There are 2 players on this team that have performed well, Al Horford and Terry Rozier.  The rest of the bunch have played inconsistent.   IT gets a pass because of l the personal tragedy that he has faced combined with the very serious oral health issue.

Coach gets an "f"  because he cannot devise a defense to defend the P n R.

dboss



dboss,

Coach gets an "f"  because he cannot devise a defense to defend the P n R.

+1


bob


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by NYCelt on Tue May 09, 2017 12:29 pm

worcester wrote:What is it with the Kelly hate, really? He's playing ok, not great, but ok, while there are others on this team clearly playing sub-par. Plus Brad is making tactical and strategic errors that will be the subject of study in some NBA coaching school someday. Let's hope this all gets sorted out Wednesday night. Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan.

W -

I don't think anyone could have said it any better.

Part of me wants to move your post to the end of this thread and then lock it.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow night's game so that, hopefully, we can get beyond the sense of doom and the ongoing premature autopsy.

Regards
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by wideclyde on Tue May 09, 2017 12:38 pm

OK! i have changed my mind. Put all of the Cs players on waivers immediately, cancel the rest of the games in this series and start to find some new players for the 2017-18 right now.

Come on, two bad games brings on all this negativity on our board? I hate to say this but we have sounded like the old boston.com boards.

Sure these games were bad, also sure that our team needs to do some more upgrading, but the re-build post Pierce and Garnett has gone better than we all expected (at least faster) to date. With a high draft pick and the ability to trade or sign another quality player we will be even better next year.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by dboss on Tue May 09, 2017 12:45 pm

I can tell you one thing for sure...Cow does not like KO and nothing Rambone or anyone else can say will change that.

Personally I have never liked KO since the day he was drafted however I have been willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong.  I am still waiting.  The kid is too goddamn soft.

But it would be unfair to place a team loss on one player.  

The Celtics should bounce back on Wednesday but let's not fool ourselves.  The Celtics are having a really hard time matching up with Washington.  Combine that with poor defense, turnovers, shooting woes and rotations that are all over the place and you have a real gogfight!

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 09, 2017 1:22 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?


he had a moment to do his job, he failed miserably


He shot 5-9.  The team shot 44%.  He averaged 9ppg in 20.5mpg during the season and is averaging 8.8ppg in 19mpg in the playoffs (.439 points/minute season and .463 points/minute playoffs) and scored 14 points in 23 minutes on Sunday (.608 points/minute).  How is that "failing miserably"?!  If every other player failed that miserably we would have won the game.  He had 2 blocks.  That's more than any other Celtic, that pathetically soft loser.  The players he was mostly matched up against was Jason Smith (7 minutes) and Ian Mahinmi (13 minutes).  In their combined 20 minutes they scored 7 points on 3-4, vs Kelly's 14 in 23 on 5-9.  Mahinmi scored 1 point, courtesy of a DUMB Marcus Smart foul as the shot clock running down and Mahinmi 12' out and moving that put him on the frito line.  Kelly sucks.  

Marcus Smart was 2-7 and stopped NOBODY.  He committed several really dumb fouls that broke our momentum and gave them some.  Was Smart a "miserable failure"?

Avery Bradley was 2-9, 1-5 from 3, for 5 points.  His average in the playoffs is 14ppg.  Wall scored 27 and had 13 points.  Is Avery Bradley a "miserable failure" too?

Jae Crowder was 2-9 and 0-3 from 3.  0-3, from 3, is not much worse than Kelly's 0-4 and Jae is a better 3pt shooter this year than Kelly.  Kelly's 3pt fg% is UP in the playoffs, as is his 3pt fgas/minute.  So, Kelly is taking more and hitting a higher percentage of them.  Crowder's 3pt fg% and 3pt fgas are both DOWN in the playoffs.  Is Jae Crowder a "miserable failure" too?  Morris, playing with a bad ankle, scored 16 points on 5-12 and grabbed 10 rebounds.

Every one of those 3 players played more minutes than Kelly.  Every one of those 3 players are more key, more important, than Kelly.  How come you aren't calling them "miserable failures"?  It's amazing you are calling Kelly a failure when he played better than his average, despite being booed every time he touched the ball, but aren't describing players you like the same way despite the obvious fact that their play was far, far inferior.

Being macho is good.  Exhibiting a strong desire to win is great, I believe I am the one who coined the term "ganas" to define the competitive "fire in the belly" drive to win, but if you do not back it up with performance then it's just feel-good posturing.  Jae can flex his muscles and Smart can howl at the moon and Bradley can do whatever, but if they shoot like this tomorrow we will be in deep shit and it will not matter even one tiny, insignificant amount what Kelly does or does not do.

Washington scored 121 points on 52.4%.  That speaks more to our defense, translate that to Smart/Bradley/Jae, than anything.  Or should I say lack of defense.  

And, of course, that's Kelly's fault too since his job is to be the defensive linchpin of this team...

Is it possible some people are getting down on Kelly because they don't want to talk the same way about players they like, players for whom defensive failure goes directly to their specific reason for being on the team, so you go after the player you don't like instead?


bob


.

People would rather miss the playoffs with Andre Drummond averaging 14 rebounds for the Celtics than be the #1 seed in the East with two point centers like Horford and Olynyk.

These guys never expected the Celtics to win 50 games this year.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 09, 2017 1:26 pm

NYCelt wrote:
worcester wrote:What is it with the Kelly hate, really? He's playing ok, not great, but ok, while there are others on this team clearly playing sub-par. Plus Brad is making tactical and strategic errors that will be the subject of study in some NBA coaching school someday. Let's hope this all gets sorted out Wednesday night. Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan.

W -

I don't think anyone could have said it any better.

Part of me wants to move your post to the end of this thread and then lock it.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow night's game so that, hopefully, we can get beyond the sense of doom and the ongoing premature autopsy.

Regards


I agree. All this doom-and-gloom and we're tied up 2-2 with 2 of the next 3 games in Boston. If we lose tomorrow we have serious problems and are facing an elimination game. If we win then the heat is firmly, squarely on a team that wasn't a good road team during the year and hadn't won in Boston this year even once.


bob


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by swish on Tue May 09, 2017 4:23 pm

I don't see the logic behind making Olynyk the whipping boy on this club - unless your of the opinion that he is vastly underachieving - in which case, be reminded that as a mid 1st round pick mediocrity is a constant possibility.
  Check out the below link to view the list of the other bigs that shared much in common with kelly this past year - such as height, weight,minutes played per game and games started. In essence, they are all a group of off the bench reserves. Especially note that among his peers Olynyk does quite well, thank you, in all the major categories with the exception of blocked shots - is tied for 1st in total rebounds per game, 1st in defensive rebounds per game, 1st in assists per game, 3rd in points per game, 3rd in 3 point attempts per game, 3rd in 2 point field goal percentage, 3rd in 3 point field goal percentage and 3rd in free throw attempts.  He's an off the bench player now and has been his entire career - nothing more - nothing less
Sure he's got short comings - if he didn't he would be getting starter minutes.  He is what he is, and all the bashing in the world isn't going to change him into a dominating rim protector. By the way - of the 8 players listed only 3 weigh in at 250 lbs plus - 5 at under 250 lbs with Kelly the lightest at 238 lbs. Certainly not a group of heavy weight centers, based on present day standards.

 swish

http://bkref.com/tiny/xLzrJ


Last edited by swish on Tue May 09, 2017 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add on material)

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue May 09, 2017 9:50 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?


he had a moment to do his job, he failed miserably


He shot 5-9.  The team shot 44%.  He averaged 9ppg in 20.5mpg during the season and is averaging 8.8ppg in 19mpg in the playoffs (.439 points/minute season and .463 points/minute playoffs) and scored 14 points in 23 minutes on Sunday (.608 points/minute).  How is that "failing miserably"?!  If every other player failed that miserably we would have won the game.  He had 2 blocks.  That's more than any other Celtic, that pathetically soft loser.  The players he was mostly matched up against was Jason Smith (7 minutes) and Ian Mahinmi (13 minutes).  In their combined 20 minutes they scored 7 points on 3-4, vs Kelly's 14 in 23 on 5-9.  Mahinmi scored 1 point, courtesy of a DUMB Marcus Smart foul as the shot clock running down and Mahinmi 12' out and moving that put him on the frito line.  Kelly sucks.  

Marcus Smart was 2-7 and stopped NOBODY.  He committed several really dumb fouls that broke our momentum and gave them some.  Was Smart a "miserable failure"?

Avery Bradley was 2-9, 1-5 from 3, for 5 points.  His average in the playoffs is 14ppg.  Wall scored 27 and had 13 points.  Is Avery Bradley a "miserable failure" too?

Jae Crowder was 2-9 and 0-3 from 3.  0-3, from 3, is not much worse than Kelly's 0-4 and Jae is a better 3pt shooter this year than Kelly.  Kelly's 3pt fg% is UP in the playoffs, as is his 3pt fgas/minute.  So, Kelly is taking more and hitting a higher percentage of them.  Crowder's 3pt fg% and 3pt fgas are both DOWN in the playoffs.  Is Jae Crowder a "miserable failure" too?  Morris, playing with a bad ankle, scored 16 points on 5-12 and grabbed 10 rebounds.

Every one of those 3 players played more minutes than Kelly.  Every one of those 3 players are more key, more important, than Kelly.  How come you aren't calling them "miserable failures"?  It's amazing you are calling Kelly a failure when he played better than his average, despite being booed every time he touched the ball, but aren't describing players you like the same way despite the obvious fact that their play was far, far inferior.

Being macho is good.  Exhibiting a strong desire to win is great, I believe I am the one who coined the term "ganas" to define the competitive "fire in the belly" drive to win, but if you do not back it up with performance then it's just feel-good posturing.  Jae can flex his muscles and Smart can howl at the moon and Bradley can do whatever, but if they shoot like this tomorrow we will be in deep shit and it will not matter even one tiny, insignificant amount what Kelly does or does not do.

Washington scored 121 points on 52.4%.  That speaks more to our defense, translate that to Smart/Bradley/Jae, than anything.  Or should I say lack of defense.  

And, of course, that's Kelly's fault too since his job is to be the defensive linchpin of this team...

Is it possible some people are getting down on Kelly because they don't want to talk the same way about players they like, players for whom defensive failure goes directly to their specific reason for being on the team, so you go after the player you don't like instead?


bob


.


bob your doing a good job handpicking stats that you like to prove your point.....he got zero rebounds, hes 7 ft tall, if hes your second best big on your team, your team is in BIG TROUBLE
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 09, 2017 10:09 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?


he had a moment to do his job, he failed miserably


He shot 5-9.  The team shot 44%.  He averaged 9ppg in 20.5mpg during the season and is averaging 8.8ppg in 19mpg in the playoffs (.439 points/minute season and .463 points/minute playoffs) and scored 14 points in 23 minutes on Sunday (.608 points/minute).  How is that "failing miserably"?!  If every other player failed that miserably we would have won the game.  He had 2 blocks.  That's more than any other Celtic, that pathetically soft loser.  The players he was mostly matched up against was Jason Smith (7 minutes) and Ian Mahinmi (13 minutes).  In their combined 20 minutes they scored 7 points on 3-4, vs Kelly's 14 in 23 on 5-9.  Mahinmi scored 1 point, courtesy of a DUMB Marcus Smart foul as the shot clock running down and Mahinmi 12' out and moving that put him on the frito line.  Kelly sucks.  

Marcus Smart was 2-7 and stopped NOBODY.  He committed several really dumb fouls that broke our momentum and gave them some.  Was Smart a "miserable failure"?

Avery Bradley was 2-9, 1-5 from 3, for 5 points.  His average in the playoffs is 14ppg.  Wall scored 27 and had 13 points.  Is Avery Bradley a "miserable failure" too?

Jae Crowder was 2-9 and 0-3 from 3.  0-3, from 3, is not much worse than Kelly's 0-4 and Jae is a better 3pt shooter this year than Kelly.  Kelly's 3pt fg% is UP in the playoffs, as is his 3pt fgas/minute.  So, Kelly is taking more and hitting a higher percentage of them.  Crowder's 3pt fg% and 3pt fgas are both DOWN in the playoffs.  Is Jae Crowder a "miserable failure" too?  Morris, playing with a bad ankle, scored 16 points on 5-12 and grabbed 10 rebounds.

Every one of those 3 players played more minutes than Kelly.  Every one of those 3 players are more key, more important, than Kelly.  How come you aren't calling them "miserable failures"?  It's amazing you are calling Kelly a failure when he played better than his average, despite being booed every time he touched the ball, but aren't describing players you like the same way despite the obvious fact that their play was far, far inferior.

Being macho is good.  Exhibiting a strong desire to win is great, I believe I am the one who coined the term "ganas" to define the competitive "fire in the belly" drive to win, but if you do not back it up with performance then it's just feel-good posturing.  Jae can flex his muscles and Smart can howl at the moon and Bradley can do whatever, but if they shoot like this tomorrow we will be in deep shit and it will not matter even one tiny, insignificant amount what Kelly does or does not do.

Washington scored 121 points on 52.4%.  That speaks more to our defense, translate that to Smart/Bradley/Jae, than anything.  Or should I say lack of defense.  

And, of course, that's Kelly's fault too since his job is to be the defensive linchpin of this team...

Is it possible some people are getting down on Kelly because they don't want to talk the same way about players they like, players for whom defensive failure goes directly to their specific reason for being on the team, so you go after the player you don't like instead?


bob


.


bob your doing a good job handpicking stats that you like to prove your point.....he got zero rebounds, hes 7 ft tall, if hes your second best big on your team, your team is in BIG TROUBLE


Cow,

And you're good at it too, like talking about rebounds because that makes him look bad and not talking about points, fg% and blocks because they make him look good.


bob


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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by 112288 on Tue May 09, 2017 10:12 pm

Worcester, it is not HATE as defined in Webster's it is just a plain observation as to why KO was partially responsible for the loss. As pointed out he is an average - middle of the road player but he was given key minutes and a lot of playing time by Brad. He was to shoot the 3 ball and set picks. KO is streaky and when he is hot he scores a lot of 3's but when he is not, he is like a Siberian Winter- YES A RUSSIAN CONNECTION AT LAST! LOL.

Perhaps Brad gets some blame for playing him too much when he is off his shooting touch, but who else does he have? Perhaps Danny gets some blame by not getting a more consistent shooter.

I do blame Brad for not calling key time outs and not getting IT under control. When the rout started It was at times way out of control, taking circus shots that had no chance of seeing the bottom of the basket, getting blocked numerous times, turning the ball over.

In playoff basketball you need to instill patient controlled basketball and getting defensive stops. The Celtics look to score first then worry about defense as per Brian Scal in his post game report.....I happen to agree.

Brad is on a learning curve as it comes to NBA playoff basketball and not regular season games.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by worcester on Tue May 09, 2017 10:16 pm

Yes, Scal has the good sense that offense comes off good defense.
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 09, 2017 10:34 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Kelly supposedly cost the Celtics the game by not making 2 3pointers in the second quarter. If not for Kelly missing shots we expect him to make every single time, the starters wouldn't have been blown out 26-0 to start the third quarter.

If we don't expect Kelly to shoot 100% from 3, then what are we doing expecting him to make every single 3 pointer he shoots? Because clearly Kelly shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs is a huge disappointment, right?


he had a moment to do his job, he failed miserably


He shot 5-9.  The team shot 44%.  He averaged 9ppg in 20.5mpg during the season and is averaging 8.8ppg in 19mpg in the playoffs (.439 points/minute season and .463 points/minute playoffs) and scored 14 points in 23 minutes on Sunday (.608 points/minute).  How is that "failing miserably"?!  If every other player failed that miserably we would have won the game.  He had 2 blocks.  That's more than any other Celtic, that pathetically soft loser.  The players he was mostly matched up against was Jason Smith (7 minutes) and Ian Mahinmi (13 minutes).  In their combined 20 minutes they scored 7 points on 3-4, vs Kelly's 14 in 23 on 5-9.  Mahinmi scored 1 point, courtesy of a DUMB Marcus Smart foul as the shot clock running down and Mahinmi 12' out and moving that put him on the frito line.  Kelly sucks.  

Marcus Smart was 2-7 and stopped NOBODY.  He committed several really dumb fouls that broke our momentum and gave them some.  Was Smart a "miserable failure"?

Avery Bradley was 2-9, 1-5 from 3, for 5 points.  His average in the playoffs is 14ppg.  Wall scored 27 and had 13 points.  Is Avery Bradley a "miserable failure" too?

Jae Crowder was 2-9 and 0-3 from 3.  0-3, from 3, is not much worse than Kelly's 0-4 and Jae is a better 3pt shooter this year than Kelly.  Kelly's 3pt fg% is UP in the playoffs, as is his 3pt fgas/minute.  So, Kelly is taking more and hitting a higher percentage of them.  Crowder's 3pt fg% and 3pt fgas are both DOWN in the playoffs.  Is Jae Crowder a "miserable failure" too?  Morris, playing with a bad ankle, scored 16 points on 5-12 and grabbed 10 rebounds.

Every one of those 3 players played more minutes than Kelly.  Every one of those 3 players are more key, more important, than Kelly.  How come you aren't calling them "miserable failures"?  It's amazing you are calling Kelly a failure when he played better than his average, despite being booed every time he touched the ball, but aren't describing players you like the same way despite the obvious fact that their play was far, far inferior.

Being macho is good.  Exhibiting a strong desire to win is great, I believe I am the one who coined the term "ganas" to define the competitive "fire in the belly" drive to win, but if you do not back it up with performance then it's just feel-good posturing.  Jae can flex his muscles and Smart can howl at the moon and Bradley can do whatever, but if they shoot like this tomorrow we will be in deep shit and it will not matter even one tiny, insignificant amount what Kelly does or does not do.

Washington scored 121 points on 52.4%.  That speaks more to our defense, translate that to Smart/Bradley/Jae, than anything.  Or should I say lack of defense.  

And, of course, that's Kelly's fault too since his job is to be the defensive linchpin of this team...

Is it possible some people are getting down on Kelly because they don't want to talk the same way about players they like, players for whom defensive failure goes directly to their specific reason for being on the team, so you go after the player you don't like instead?


bob


.


bob your doing a good job handpicking stats that you like to prove your point.....he got zero rebounds, hes 7 ft tall, if hes your second best big on your team, your team is in BIG TROUBLE


Cow,

And you're good at it too, like talking about rebounds because that makes him look bad and not talking about points, fg% and blocks because they make him look good.


bob


.

Don't forget +/-. KO #3 on team in +/- per game thought 10 playoff games. Even if you want to give his teammates the credit for that for some obvious reason, KO's play hasn't had even close to a negative effect on the score while he's been on the court.

Stretch point center super-sub.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 09, 2017 10:35 pm

Amazing how Olynyk is both expected to make every single 3 point shot, and simultaneously be a monster rebounder from the 3 point line.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by 112288 on Wed May 10, 2017 12:17 am

Rmbone, he failed being a rebounder years ago so they tried to use his shooting skills as an outside threat.

Also, stop suggesting that people used the phase -------make every single 3 point shot...........how absurd ......................your creating fake news!

What KO is required in his role is to make key shots when called on, and he did not ........why.............he is just an average player with limited skill set. There was 4-5 instances he failed to get a rebound due to his inability to ether putting a hip on his guy and get position or failed to box out (Basketball rebounding 101- go see Red on Roundball on Youtube - Bill Russell) and allowed someone to come flying in to out leap him at 7'.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Wed May 10, 2017 12:45 am

112288 wrote:Rmbone,  he failed being a rebounder years ago so they tried to use his shooting skills as an outside threat.

Also, stop suggesting that people used the phase -------make every single 3 point shot...........how absurd ......................your creating fake news!

What KO is required in his role is to make key shots when called on, and he did not ........why.............he is just an average player with limited skill set.  There was 4-5 instances he failed to get a rebound due to his inability to ether putting a hip on his guy and get position or failed to box out (Basketball rebounding 101- go see Red on Roundball on Youtube - Bill Russell) and allowed someone to come flying in to out leap him at 7'.

112288

Oh, so Olynyk is only expected to shoot 100% from 3 in certain situations, aka "when called upon". Got it. Any other player in the league you condemn for not hitting "crucial" second quarter 3 pointers that they are expected to make every single time, "when called upon?"

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by worcester on Wed May 10, 2017 1:00 am

We are now focusing on Kelly Olynyk why? Because even though he performed better than most other Celtics during the two recent blowout losses to Washington he is still somehow primarily culpable? How does this discussion lead to a balanced discussion and understanding of the Celtics' woes?

Sadly, this whole brouhaha reminds me of a scene from Hamlet:

Player Queen:
Both here and hence pursue me lasting strife,
If once I be a widow, ever I be a wife!

Player King:
'Tis deeply sworn. Sweet, leave me here a while,
My spirits grow dull, and fain I would beguile
The tedious day with sleep.

Player Queen:
Sleep rock thy brain,
And never come mischance between us twain!

Hamlet:
Madam, how like you this play?

Queen:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230
One of the more interesting quotes by Shakespeare: it's almost always misquoted as "Methinks the lady doth protest too much," Queen Gertrude's line is both drier than the misquotation (thanks to the delayed "methinks") and much more ironic. Prince Hamlet's question is intended to smoke out his mother, to whom, as he intended, this Player Queen bears some striking resemblances [see THE PLAY'S THE THING]. The queen in the play, like Gertrude, seems too deeply attached to her first husband to ever even consider remarrying; Gertrude, however, after the death of Hamlet's father, has remarried. We don't know whether Gertrude ever made the same sorts of promises to Hamlet's father that the Player Queen makes to the Player King (who will soon be murdered)—but the irony of her response should be clear.

By "protest," Gertrude doesn't mean "object" or "deny"—these meanings postdate Hamlet. The principal meaning of "protest" in Shakespeare's day was "vow" or "declare solemnly," a meaning preserved in our use of "protestation." When we smugly declare that "the lady doth protest too much," we almost always mean that the lady objects so much as to lose credibility. Gertrude says that Player Queen affirms so much as to lose credibility. Her vows are too elaborate, too artful, too insistent. More cynically, the queen may also imply that such vows are silly in the first place, and thus may indirectly defend her own remarriage.
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by swish on Wed May 10, 2017 1:04 am

Are we talking about the 2nd quarter of the last game vs Washington?

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by Rmbone on Wed May 10, 2017 1:24 am

swish wrote:Are we talking about the 2nd quarter of the last game vs Washington?

 swish

Otherwise known as the big picture.

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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

Post by bobc33 on Wed May 10, 2017 4:12 am

Worcester that is simply a fascinating analysis. The talent we have on this forum is amazing!
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Re: POST GAME WASHINGTON - AWAY - PLAYOFF - 2ND ROUND - GAME 4

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