What/Who Would You Trade For Kristaps Porzingis?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ianbegley/status/853039574855016448



Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley

Kristaps Porzingis skipped exit meetings due to frustration over dysfunction, drama surrounding NYK, team sources told ESPN. Story coming.
5:17 PM · Apr 14, 2017


http://thebiglead.com/2017/04/14/the-knicks-have-a-major-kristaps-porzingis-problem-and-the-solution-is-to-fire-phil-jackson/




By: Jason McIntyre | 7 minutes ago
 

Yes, the Knicks just made a mind-numbingly bad decision to extend Phil Jackson’s contract by two years. The Zen Master has accomplished nothing in his first three years in New York, and why he got an extension is a mystery to all. But it gets worse!


Yikes. This will strike fear into the heart of any long-suffering Knicks fan. The forlorn franchise has had one playoff series win since Patrick Ewing departed nearly two decades ago. And Porzingis – the best (only!) thing Jackson has done right in New York – who is the future of the franchise, is suddenly ticked off at the drama.

VIDEOSports Illustrated's legal analyst Mic…
The Knicks are an embarrassment. And right now, that starts with the 71-year old Jackson, who is President of Basketball Operations for the Knicks. Here’s what he said today about their veteran, Carmelo Anthony:

“We’ve not been able to win with (Anthony) on the court at this time. And I think the direction with our team is that he’s a player that would be better off somewhere else and using his talent somewhere where he can win or chase that championship.”

He’s not totally wrong, but that’s a terrible thing to say to the media the day after the season ends. You’d think a guy with a bunch of rings would understand decorum. The comments prompted Melo to respond like any millennial would – he took it to Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BS4OGuFDBpM/


Porzingis liked the instagram post. Then, he bailed on the team’s exit interview. This is bad. Very bad.

Talk about a debacle. It’s not too late, James Dolan – do something right and fire Phil Jackson! Quickly!




bob

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Dear James dolan,
 Don't listen to Jason McIntyre, your team is on the verge of huge things. Most other owners would give their firstborn to have Phil on board with them. Stay the course sir, stay the course.

good one Bob.

Dolan seems to be an idiot and all, but come on. Why dump your best player and future (Current?) face of the franchise while he's under his rookie deal?

The NY press is full of WTF articles about Dolan and Jackson.

They are all wrong, I agree with Matty, please stay the course!!

Bob, I really like KP a lot and I think he would be unstoppable in Brad's system, the prototypical big. I'd start with the '18 pick, JB, Bradley or Rozier, Yabu and filler. My thought process being that at worse Fultz, Jackson or Tatum will be available in the draft and any 1 of the 3 could fill the role of AB/JB. For a talent like Porzingis I'd CONSIDER parting with all assets we've accumulated.

Porzingas is not worth half the Celtic team. Jaylen Brown, Bradley , Yabu a # 1 and  " filler", whatever that means, for Porzingas? Jeebus , mary and joseph.

will no way I'd do that

when will people get it thru their heads that Danny is NOT going to part with Jaylen Brown? Too much potential there, young, athletic, with a whole world ahead of him. I like KP but I would not give up half our team for him, What good is he if he is not surrounded by talented players?

Kristaps Porzingis Taking Extended Trip To Latvia As Frustrations Grow


APR 16, 2017 1:25 AM


Kristaps Porzingis skipped Friday's exit interview with the New York Knicks, taking a stand against the way the organization has operated over the first two seasons of his career.

Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis has educated himself on how successful NBA organizations are run and the Knicks don't resemble any of those at the moment. Porzingis' "growing disillusionment" is further complicating the Knicks' plans to rebuild around him, beginning with a trade of Carmelo Anthony.

Other players have privately said they're not interested in working through the Knicks' triangle sessions in the summer.

Phil Jackson continues to preach the triangle and is insisting upon it being fully functional for the 17-18 season.

Porzingis could meet with Jackson before he returns to Latvia but he is currently in no rush to do so.

ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI/THE VERTICAL



bob
MY NOTE:  We often refer to Brooklyn as "a dumpster fire", but it isn't completely their fault.  Yeah, we all love Billy King on Celtics Planet but, from his perspective, he rolled the dice for a team that, on paper, looked truly awesome (Lopez, KG, Pierce, Joe Johnson, Deron, AK47, JET).  He struck when he thought the iron was hot and he thought he'd have a shot at a title with them.  It didn't work out, of course, but if you look at the roster he had after that trade it looked like a winner.  Now they are trying to dig themselves out of the hole that Danny put them in and, because Danny owns their soul for another 2 years, it is slow going for them at best since they don't have the assets to make sparks fly.  Phil Jackson wasn't in that hole.  He didn't put together an awesome team that underperformed and now he's cleaning up the ashes.  This dumpster fire is a dumpster fire of his making and, unlike Billy King, has never had a roster that has had much a chance of even making the playoffs much less to the 2nd round.  Other than Pau Gasol and TAFKARA name me any players in the NBA that are familiar with the Triangle.  He's trying to ram a system that nobody knows down players' throats.  Can he get young draftees to go along?  Sure, but quality veterans?  What quality veteran free agent will sign up with Phil when he is insisting on a system they have never played? Who thinks a high quality free agent in their mid-to-late 20s, with a good 6-8 years ahead of them, wants to spend the first few of those 6-8 on a team that sucks, learning a system that nobody else on the team understands, including him? My prediction, as of today and subject to change, is that The Zinger will not resign with NY at the end of his rookie contract (in 2019-2020 he is a restricted free agent). Melo is cancerous (not purposefully, it's The Zen Master playing mind-games, trying to drive him out, waiving his no-trade clause that causing the grief), DRose isn't what he used to be and isn't under contract next year. If they don't re-sign him then there's another reason for Zinger to be unhappy. Brandon Jennings is also a free agent this year. So, with the exception of Zinger all the quality vets are either UFAs or in Phil's doghouse.


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So, if he doesn't resign, he is just like Al Horford, free and clear?? Nothing will have to be given to NY to sign him? You have to wonder what a guy like that would do. Can you imagine the $ that would be thrown at him from every team that has some to throw around?

New York had to be crazy to resign Jackson to another two years. What are the chances that he finishes that contract. It makes me sick when these writers name Jackson and Riley as the greatest coaches, with no mention of Red at all.
Jackson has done nothing except draft Porzingas. His success is from Chicago and LA, but he will never be as great as Red, in my honest Celtic opinion.

By the way, TJ, do not even begin to argue with me about this, you will talk your head off but never win in my eyes.

Rosalie

bobheckler wrote:Kristaps Porzingis Taking Extended Trip To Latvia As Frustrations Grow


APR 16, 2017 1:25 AM


Kristaps Porzingis skipped Friday's exit interview with the New York Knicks, taking a stand against the way the organization has operated over the first two seasons of his career.

Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis has educated himself on how successful NBA organizations are run and the Knicks don't resemble any of those at the moment. Porzingis' "growing disillusionment" is further complicating the Knicks' plans to rebuild around him, beginning with a trade of Carmelo Anthony.

Other players have privately said they're not interested in working through the Knicks' triangle sessions in the summer.

Phil Jackson continues to preach the triangle and is insisting upon it being fully functional for the 17-18 season.

Porzingis could meet with Jackson before he returns to Latvia but he is currently in no rush to do so.

ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI/THE VERTICAL



bob
MY NOTE:  We often refer to Brooklyn as "a dumpster fire", but it isn't completely their fault.  Yeah, we all love Billy King on Celtics Planet but, from his perspective, he rolled the dice for a team that, on paper, looked truly awesome (Lopez, KG, Pierce, Joe Johnson, Deron, AK47, JET).  He struck when he thought the iron was hot and he thought he'd have a shot at a title with them.  It didn't work out, of course, but if you look at the roster he had after that trade it looked like a winner.  Now they are trying to dig themselves out of the hole that Danny put them in and, because Danny owns their soul for another 2 years, it is slow going for them at best since they don't have the assets to make sparks fly.  Phil Jackson wasn't in that hole.  He didn't put together an awesome team that underperformed and now he's cleaning up the ashes.  This dumpster fire is a dumpster fire of his making and, unlike Billy King, has never had a roster that has had much a chance of even making the playoffs much less to the 2nd round.  Other than Pau Gasol and TAFKARA name me any players in the NBA that are familiar with the Triangle.  He's trying to ram a system that nobody knows down players' throats.  Can he get young draftees to go along?  Sure, but quality veterans?  What quality veteran free agent will sign up with Phil when he is insisting on a system they have never played?  Who thinks a high quality free agent in their mid-to-late 20s, with a good 6-8 years ahead of them, wants to spend the first few of those 6-8 on a team that sucks, learning a system that nobody else on the team understands, including him?  My prediction, as of today and subject to change, is that The Zinger will not resign with NY at the end of his rookie contract (in 2019-2020 he is a restricted free agent).  Melo is cancerous (not purposefully, it's The Zen Master playing mind-games, trying to drive him out, waiving his no-trade clause that causing the grief), DRose isn't what he used to be and isn't under contract next year.  If they don't re-sign him then there's another reason for Zinger to be unhappy.  Brandon Jennings is also a free agent this year.  So, with the exception of Zinger all the quality vets are either UFAs or in Phil's doghouse.


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Bob,

I agree with you that Phil might be out of touch with the triangle.
But, I want to make some clarifications.
Phil signed on with the Knicks knowing he would not have their 2014 and 2016 1st round picks.
He inherited a terrible team with few upcoming draft picks.

Also, Brandon Jennings is long gone.
He plays with Washington now.

look, the ONLY way anyone at NY would even consider moving Por-ZING-us

would start with that first pick in this upcoming draft as the first piece.

now.....since most here would NOT part with that pick (if we get it)for ANYONE, that kinda ends the conversation for many here.

But for those still reading.....IMO, I think a deal that NY would at least think about would be first pick over all in this coming years draft, Bradley or Smart and Jaylen Brown.

deal probably couldn't be done until after the new NBA year (which is after the draft I think). Unless you include someone like C. Lee in the deal. Then a deal like Porzingus and Lee for Jaylen, Bradley and the draft pick would work cap wise, anytime.


would it be worth it?

if I knew, I'd be an NBA GM I suppose. It certainly would make us a different team.

we'd start with a roster of:

Horford
Zeller
Zizic
Porzingus
Yabusle
Jerebko or Kelly ( pick one)?
Crowder
Green- Resigned?
Nader?
Smart
IT
Lee
Rozier
Jackson

cap room for an additional mid level player as well.

could be interesting, but I think the chances of it happening are zero.

Porzingus is on his rookie contract so isn't worth too much. For instance Mickey and Rozier for him works on the trade checker. It would take getting someone like him to even consider giving up Brown. What a shame a kid with that kind of talent and heart has to put up with the Jackson clown show. It sure wasn't a Buddhist who gave him the name zen master, what an offensive appropriation. Triangle this! LOL

Sure , then jaylen brown becomes what Danny has said he would be...............I am not willing to give him up. this is a pipe dream, do you honestly think Jackson will let the Celtics get their hands on him??? No way.

I don't want to appear to my fellow board members as some kind of star struck fan with unrealistic deals spinning in my head, thus I'll explain my reasoning on dealing for KP. First and foremost I think he is a soon to be transcendent player. If I, and I believe real GM's, were asked what big would you start a team with I'd say A. Davis 1, KAT, Porzingis 2-3. That said, I'll break down each component of what I'd be willing to part with. First, the 2018 (note I didn't say 2017). The top 3 projected players are Michael Porter, a 6'10" fwd who is compared to Ben Simmons, and 2 7 ft'ers DeAndre Ayton and Mohammed Bamba. They are both long and agile and PROJECTED to become rim protectors. They are also very skinny. KP is 7-3 and is ALREADY a good rebounder and rim protector, as well as a proven NBA player. Having KP, mitigates the "need" for one of the 2018 youngsters. Second, JB. This is why I didn't include the 2017 pick. While I love JB I'm of the opinion that Fultz, Jackson, and Tatum will ultimately be just as good or better then him. We add KP but because of our draft we replace a wing with one who IMO will be just as good and I think will have a higher ceiling. On to AB, who I'm sure the Knicks would want over Rozier. The GM in me does not see AB as a max player, not even a 20 million a year guy. Just my view. That said, do I include him in a trade for a transcendent player or lose him in a year because I'm not maxing or near maxing him. If I'm maxing out its not going to be for a 6-2 good guard when it can be for a 7-3 great big. Next, Yabu. His highlights are great but they are Chinese and D league. While as a Celtic fan I'd love for him to be a mixture of the Mailman and Dr.J, the reality is he's 6-8, 260. Will he be to short to handle pf's and to slow for sf's. Jordan Mickey is 6-9, a better leaper and seems more athletic than Yabu and we see how effective he is at this level. Notice also that i DID NOT include Zizic, who I am much more confident in when it comes to being a solid at worst player. There is no way would I consider Yabu an untouchable in a deal to acquire KP. Lastly, I used the term "filler". That basically met future draft picks, expiring contracts, the ancillary things that are needed to facilitate a deal. I think that if the chance comes to acquire a player like KP, you do it. I think he will be an ALL NBA player for many years. Some of you may not agree with that assessment of him but if you don't, then which player or players going out in this hypothetical do you think will be perennially all league and/or have a better career than KP? There is a well worn adage that many GM's in all 4 major sports have spouted (including Red) "the team that wins a trade is the one that gets the BEST PLAYER"! In this scenario KP is the best player, and its not even close.

First, Jackson is not parting with a talented big, second Jackson is not parting with a talented big, third, Jackson is not parting with a talented big.

He is an upgrade from Kelly O but does not solve our rebounding problems. 16.1 ppg and 7.3 rebounds. At 7'3" he should be getting more rebounds.

I am concerned about his height and potential leg/feet problems moving forward. Players above 7' tend to have more problems with their lower bodies.

Buyer be ware!

112288

Once again, the question you pose is, in my opinion, based om a false premise. Assuming that Porzingis is the best player among those options doesn`t mean that one would necessarily be sanguine with giving all those players and  assets for him, so it isn`t really necessary for anybody to pick someone from the group and assert that he will have a better career than the beanpole. Personally, I think Jaylen Brown could easily turn out to be as  good or better , and given their body types , is a good bet to last longer.  I don`t see Porzingis as the transcendent player you , do ,either, willjr., but I`m not denigrating your opinion.I`m just not buying it.Presuming that Fultz, Tatum or Jackson will be as good or better than JB is,well, presumptuous.

It is all based on a false premise, Phil is not  trading KP under any circumstances! I respect your opinion as well. I responded to the question Bob posed per the title of the thread. As is my habit in life, I try to give reason for my position. Not to sway others but to be clear as to why I may have taken such a position. While I take no offense at all towards your post, there is one part that bothers me a bit. You said that it is presumptuous to think the 3 draftees will be better than JB. That is not being presumptuous, that is projecting, which is what all GM's and scouts do. For the purpose of this particular exercise that is what I was doing. In the fantasy world of this forum that may lead me to being Danny Ainge or Billy King, so be it. In no way am I trying to be a smartass or attack you but I ask, would it have been presumptuous of a fan or a gm, on the eve of the '84 draft, to say that this Jordan kid would be better than Drexler, reason that could not be is because Clyde was drafted a year earlier and played for the fan's or gm's favorite team? I like JB a lot, in hindsight I'm glad we dropped to 3rd in the lottery because I think he is going to be better than Brandon Ingram. Just my opinion, I'm sure TJ for one would beg to differ. But I also think that the 3 I mentioned will be better than both of them, and I also think that KP is now and will continue to be a much more effective and impactful NBA player than JB.

Phil wants to move Melo and derive assets to help rebuild the team around Kristaps. Phil is stupid because he has already undermined Melo. He is not trading Kristaps.

It was presumptuous of me to say that willjr`s projection was presumptuous. There, I feel so much better. Porzingis is a more experienced player than Brown and , in my opinion, is far closer to his ceiling.Maybe Fultz , Jackson and Tatum will be as good or better than Brown and maybe one of the 2018 bigs will be as good or better than Porzingis once they have reached his level of  maturity and experience. He`s a good player , but I don`t see him as the stud you do , willjr. My initial reaction to your post was a bit over the top, so mea culpa for that.

Either of our upcoming #1 picks ( only if they turn out to be the 2nd, 3rd or 4th picks) plus any one other roster player not named Thomas or Horford - fully expecting that they would reject the offer - and then ???????.  Perhaps add a future draft pick or 2 (other than our other # one pick)

 swish

dboss wrote:Phil wants to move Melo and derive assets to help rebuild the team around Kristaps.  Phil is stupid because he has already undermined Melo.  He is not trading Kristaps.

agreed!!

and depending on how the rest of the playoffs go for us....I can see the Melo to Boston trade rumors to swirl again. In fact if we can't find a reliable second player to get his own shot thee playoffs (not likely at this stage) I could see Danny making a deal for Melo (Buying low of course).

as much as it pains me to say it, I could see a Crowder and Rozier for Melo being made the off-season. I doubt NY would get any better offers to be honest and for all Melos' faults he CAN get his own shot anytime in the NBA.


what could our roster look like then:

Horford
Zizic
Amir- Resigned $12m
Kelly- resigned $12M
Yabusele
Mickey
Melo
Jaylen
Nader
Bradley
Thomas
Smart
first round draft pick
Jackson
Vet minimum player (Green?)


we'd only be around $4M under the cap before re-signing Amir and Kelly so Danny would likely end up over the cap by about $20M next year under this approach. Taking Zellers $8M off the books buts us around $12M over however.

Like I said I am not a fan of Melo, but lets be honest he is more likely to be moved than Porzingus.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245868/Knicks-Received-Mulitple-Trade-Calls-On-Kristaps-Porzingis



Knicks Received Mulitple Trade Calls On Kristaps Porzingis




MAY 5, 2017 7:54 PM


The New York Knicks received trade calls from multiple teams about the availability of Kristaps Porzingis after he skipped his exit meetings with management.

Whether or not those calls led to serious discussions is unclear.

Porzingis did not appear to meet with management at the end of the Knicks' regular season to show his frustration with the direction of the franchise.

Porzingis has played for three separate coaches over his first two seasons while losing 101 games.

IAN BEGLEY/ESPN



bob
MY NOTE:  Pick up the phone, Danny. I don't expect these calls to go anywhere, but throw your hat into the ring just in case Phil is feeling more frustrated and impatient than usual.


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the way Jackson keeps throwing Melo under the bus is amazing. some of his other comments are just as puzzling. Why Dolan resigned him is a puzzle we will never solve, but it appears to me that Jackson is looking for them to fire him at some point and collect his money still. Then move on. Where? Who
the hell knows, as far as I am concerned, he is a dinosaur now. The game has passed him by. It is time for retirement, I don't care how much of genius they say he is, the game is not the same. Some adapt, he has not. So, that being said, will he make a stupid trade to really screw up the Knicks or will he find a way of getting rid of Melo without too much fanfare.

I will still say once and for all, I WANT NO PART OF MELO!!! That is a player dump as far as I am concerned. He is on his way down, why would we give up good young talent for a guy who is a ball hog and will change our offense completely. KEEP HIM OUT OF BOSTON

RosalieTCeltics wrote:the way Jackson keeps throwing Melo under the bus is amazing. some of his other comments are just as puzzling. Why Dolan resigned him is a puzzle we will never solve, but it appears to me that Jackson is looking for them to fire him at some point and collect his money still. Then move on.  Where? Who
the hell  knows, as far as I am concerned, he is a dinosaur now. The game has passed him by. It is time for retirement, I don't care how much of genius they say he is, the game is not the same. Some adapt, he has not. So, that being said, will he make a stupid trade to really screw up the Knicks or will he find a way of getting rid of Melo without too much fanfare.

I will still say once and for all, I WANT NO PART OF MELO!!!  That is a player dump as far as I am concerned. He is on his way down, why would we give up good young talent for a guy who is a ball hog and will change our offense completely.  KEEP HIM OUT OF BOSTON

Rosalie,

Melo?  NO.  Zinger?  YES.  

Here's an intriguing question, I think, that I'd like to hear people chime in on:

When Danny made The Trade with Brooklyn he got this bounty of draft picks, and a decent player on short-term rentals (e.g Hump), a throwaway in Marshon Brooks and he ate a 3-year $30M contract on Gerald Wallace who was clearly, even back then, on the decline.  In the end, we got limited play out of Wallace but are now starting to reap the rewards of the rest of the trade.

If Danny could get Porzingis should he be willing to take Melo off of Phil's hands as part of the deal, like the way he took Wallace off of Billy King's hands?  Would landing a possibly transcendental player like Kristaps Porzingis be worth the 2 years of pain of Melo (assuming he picks up his player option.  If he doesn't, because he's a 10+ year veteran and can get a bigger max contract now (his ego may tell him he could get that) then Danny gets out from under it a year earlier but assuming that Melo stays in his contract it's two more years.  And, as much as I don't like Melo's game he is still an effective player who might be better in Brad's system.  Certainly better than Wallace was.  And what's to stop Danny from trading Melo for a lost dog and then finding that dog a good home?  Maybe the reason why Phil's having trouble with moving Melo is because of Melo's no-trade clause, which would still be a problem, but also because he's asking for too much in return?  Suppose we traded Melo to Minny for Pekovic, who might not ever play again, or some deal like that?  A Gerald Wallace for David Lee type of thing?  

Danny wants max flexibility to sign a high quality free agent this summer.  If he can get Zinger that's probably as good, or better, a player as he would be able to sign as a free agent and he's on a cheap contract for 2 more years (plus another as an RFA, which we could match).

What do you think?  Would you be willing to hold your nose and take Melo, and give up the 2017 and maybe 2018 Nets picks and Jae Crowder and maybe  AB and a Kelly sign-and-trade for $13M for Zinger?  I used the ESPN Trade Machine.  Melo + Zinger for Jae, AB and Amir works.  I doubt Phil would want Amir, but Amir's $12M contract is close enough to the money Kelly will make next year so I plugged his contract in to make the numbers fit.  That makes the deal Melo + Porzingis = Crowder + Bradley + Kelly + 2017 Nets pick.  Bradley only has one more year on his contract and he'll get a BIG raise.  Porzingis would most certainly fix our PF, rebounding and rim protection problems and he would fix them for years.  He isn't even 23 yet.



bob



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