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Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobheckler on Mon May 15, 2017 3:40 pm

Lottery starts 8:30 EDT.  Pre-lottery show starts at 7:30 EDT.  I have no idea how they are going to fill up an hour of airtime on the lottery.  I guess they will scout every likely lottery pick.  If so and, like me do not know much about college players, you want a primer that might be worth watching.  As we all know from Jaylen Brown Danny doesn't always do the obvious so just learning about Fultz and Ball might not be enough.


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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 3:49 pm

It's absurd that Lonzo has successfully been marketed as a consensus top 2 talent. He needs an entire team built around him to compensate for his weaknesses like Tim Tebow did.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Shamrock1000 on Mon May 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Rmbone wrote:It's absurd that Lonzo has successfully been marketed as a consensus top 2 talent. He needs an entire team built around him to compensate for his weaknesses like Tim Tebow did.

Thank God somebody pointed this out. There is also no one way that his old man won't create problems and/or limit his kid's potential. Stay clear...

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 4:42 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
Rmbone wrote:It's absurd that Lonzo has successfully been marketed as a consensus top 2 talent. He needs an entire team built around him to compensate for his weaknesses like Tim Tebow did.

Thank God somebody pointed this out. There is also no one way that his old man won't create problems and/or limit his kid's potential. Stay clear...

Give me Frank Mason any day, even without the father's toxic influence.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 4:43 pm

This is my big board at the moment:

Big Board 3.4
1 Josh Jackson
2 Markelle Fultz
3 Dennis Smith Jr
4 Frank Mason III
5 Jayson Tatum
6 Jonah Bolden
7 Isaiah Hartenstein
8 Malik Monk
9 De’Aaron Fox
10 Johnathan Isaac
11 dillon brooks
12 Antonio Blakeney
13 Caleb Swanigan
14 Hamidou Diallo
15 John Collins
16 Semi Ojeleye
17 Zach Collins
18 TJ Leaf
19 Lauri Markkanen
20 Justin Jackson (UNC)
21 Donovan Mitchell
22 Terrance Ferguson
23 Lonzo?
24 Jawun Evans
25 Dwayne Bacon

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Shamrock1000 on Mon May 15, 2017 4:57 pm

Rmbone wrote:This is my big board at the moment:

Big Board 3.4
1 Josh Jackson
2 Markelle Fultz
3 Dennis Smith Jr
4 Frank Mason III
5 Jayson Tatum
6 Jonah Bolden
7 Isaiah Hartenstein
8 Malik Monk
9 De’Aaron Fox
10 Johnathan Isaac
11 dillon brooks
12 Antonio Blakeney
13 Caleb Swanigan
14 Hamidou Diallo
15 John Collins
16 Semi Ojeleye
17 Zach Collins
18 TJ Leaf
19 Lauri Markkanen
20 Justin Jackson (UNC)
21 Donovan Mitchell
22 Terrance Ferguson
23 Lonzo?
24 Jawun Evans
25 Dwayne Bacon

Interesting. Curious to hear your reasoning for putting Jackson above Fultz. I don't really follow college ball enough evaluate these kids. My gut tells me Fultz might be too mellow/laid back. Would drafting Jackson affect how we handle/develop JB since they are both natural small forwards?

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 5:08 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
Rmbone wrote:This is my big board at the moment:

Big Board 3.4
1 Josh Jackson
2 Markelle Fultz
3 Dennis Smith Jr
4 Frank Mason III
5 Jayson Tatum
6 Jonah Bolden
7 Isaiah Hartenstein
8 Malik Monk
9 De’Aaron Fox
10 Johnathan Isaac
11 dillon brooks
12 Antonio Blakeney
13 Caleb Swanigan
14 Hamidou Diallo
15 John Collins
16 Semi Ojeleye
17 Zach Collins
18 TJ Leaf
19 Lauri Markkanen
20 Justin Jackson (UNC)
21 Donovan Mitchell
22 Terrance Ferguson
23 Lonzo?
24 Jawun Evans
25 Dwayne Bacon

Interesting. Curious to hear your reasoning for putting Jackson above Fultz. I don't really follow college ball enough evaluate these kids. My gut tells me Fultz might be too mellow/laid back. Would drafting Jackson affect how we handle/develop JB since they are both natural small forwards?

Yeah, Fultz seems too laid back, and not a natural leader. Never shows emotion in games, and reluctant being vocal with teammates. He grew up as the short kid, never a big star until recently. Never developed leadership. It's key for a point guard, as is emotion. Jackson just plays with a much higher motor, takes pride in defense, and went to Kansas because the coach wouldn't let him take any plays off on defense.

Being the consensus #1 pick generally also has a negative effect on a prospect's motivation. They often get a big head and don't have much to prove to themselves. Towns and Wiggins don't play a lick of defense, and Ben Simmons cramped up 5 minutes into his first summer league game because he was so out of shape. Then he goes down with a season ending injury before pre-season even started.

As far as Jackson and Jaylen, they both look like future superstar shooting guards in addition to being able to play SF. And Jaylen can play some PF. Jackson and Jaylen are both quick enough to defend PGs, especially Jackson. And Jackson has enough point guard skills that he could play point guard next to Jaylen at 2, Crowder at 3, and KO and Horford as the great passing bigs that make it easier for a non-PG like Jackson to play that role.

Inside out basketball. Imagine 6'8 Jackson posting up point guards, with Horford and KO spacing the floor.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Shamrock1000 on Mon May 15, 2017 5:16 pm

[quote="Rmbone"][quote="Shamrock1000"]
Rmbone wrote: And Jackson has enough point guard skills that he could play point guard next to Jaylen at 2, Crowder at 3, and KO and Horford as the great passing bigs that make it easier for a non-PG like Jackson to play that role.

Inside out basketball. Imagine 6'8 Jackson posting up point guards, with Horford and KO spacing the floor.

You think he could play point? My impression that Jackson has a high motor (as you said), but is not super skilled, with a bad handle being of concern? Again, I don't watch much college ball, so I'm pretty much repeating what I've read.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 5:35 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
Rmbone wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
Rmbone wrote: And Jackson has enough point guard skills that he could play point guard next to Jaylen at 2, Crowder at 3, and KO and Horford as the great passing bigs that make it easier for a non-PG like Jackson to play that role.

Inside out basketball. Imagine 6'8 Jackson posting up point guards, with Horford and KO spacing the floor.

You think he could play point? My impression that Jackson has a high motor (as you said), but is not super skilled, with a bad handle being of concern? Again, I don't watch much college ball, so I'm pretty much repeating what I've read.

He's a great ball handler and passer for a 6'8 guy. I don't envision him as a real prototype point guard, but a guy who can bring the ball up the court. Horford and Olynyk would be like assistant point guards, and Jaylen's ball handling will be better next year too. Lonzo's daddy compares him to Penny Hardaway, but Jackson has a lot more in common with Penny than Lonzo does. Jackson just doesn't play point guard.

You've seen how the Wizards have had some relative success with 6'7 Kelly Oubre defending Isaiah. Jackson is a better defender than Oubre, and can contain NBA PGs defensively. He only weighs 205 lbs, and I think he should stay around that weight rather than try to beef up.

I'm not saying Jackson will definitely see minutes at PG, but he's a lot more capable of doing so than people realize. But any athletic wing who is 6'7-6'8, everybody automatically labels as a tweener forward. That's what they labeled Jaylen as, but in 20+ starts at SG the Celtics played better than they did with Avery starting at SG.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by dboss on Mon May 15, 2017 7:08 pm

Everything I have read suggests that Boston will draft Fultz if given the oportunity.

My big board only has 4 picks on it.

By the way if Boston had a chance to draft Wiggins KAT or simmons they would have done so in a NY minute. Wiggins is a much better defender than the chump.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 7:38 pm

dboss wrote:Everything I have read suggests that Boston will draft Fultz if given the oportunity.

My big board only has 4 picks on it.

By the way if Boston had a chance to draft Wiggins KAT or simmons they would have done so in a NY minute.  Wiggins is a much better defender than the chump.

dboss

Who's the chump?

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by willjr on Mon May 15, 2017 7:50 pm

Dboss said "my big board only had 4 picks on it", I agree totally. For me its Fultz, Jackson, Tatum, Smith in that order. Obviously, the 4th pick would be a huge disappointment. IMO neither Monk, Ball, Fox or Isaac adds anything short or long term that we couldn't get elsewhere or don't already have.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by NYCelt on Mon May 15, 2017 11:41 pm

Depending on who gets the top pick, it looks like a lock to be either Fultz, Ball or Jackson.  Still some talk about Ball at #1, but I'd take Fultz easy. Fultz is a no brainer and may be the best all-around guard to come out in a very long time.  He's an NBA point or 2, and will probably be able to defend 3 positions.  Fultz has very few weaknesses for such a young kid, was able to provide leadership for a bunch of upper-classmen, and shows good signs he will grow into a similar leadership role over a few short years with the pro ranks.

Jackson is an NBA 3, and would fit very nicely in Boston.

Ball goes top 4, probably top 2 (depending on those bouncing ping-pong balls and team needs, he may go 2 ahead of Jackson and Tatum, or just after at the worst), and will make a great consolation prize for a team looking for an NBA combo guard, but missing out on Fultz.

Tatum probably rounds out the top 4, and also would be a great pick for Boston.  Fans at the TD Garden would love him because of his highly Paul Pierce-like game.

Smith might be a prize at number 5.

De'Aaron Fox's stock has been moving up, too, as has Malik Monk's.  If anyone falls it's Tatum, who, If Phoenix, LA, Boston the 6ers and Orlando make up the top five, could conceivably fall as far as six.   Although he may go further back, like 12 or so, Jarrett Allen could rapidly become a force at the ever-so-thinly stocked center position.

Until we know the draft order, I make the best odds on top 10 selections in order as;

Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Tatum
Smith
Fox
Monk
Ntilikina
Isaac
Collins
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Mon May 15, 2017 11:49 pm

I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Mon May 15, 2017 11:56 pm

fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Jackson shot 38% from 3 and 44% from 3 the second half of the year. Ignore the cold start to his freshman year, and ignore the confirmation bias idiots who cling to the false notion that he can't shoot. Those guys suck at evaluating shooting ability.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by NYCelt on Mon May 15, 2017 11:57 pm

fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Fierce,

I agree Fultz likely goes #1.

I think if Boston has a shot at Jackson or Tatum, and Fultz is gone, they take one of them. Brown can also go at guard, and probably will never develop into the player that Jackson or Tatum will. Also, selecting Jackson or Tatum may give you the ability in the near future to use either Crowder or Brown to strengthen your bench, or package in a trade.

Regards
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 12:03 am

Rmbone wrote:
fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Jackson shot 38% from 3 and 44% from 3 the second half of the year. Ignore the cold start to his freshman year, and ignore the confirmation bias idiots who cling to the false notion that he can't shoot. Those guys suck at evaluating shooting ability.

Maybe if the Celts didn't have Jaylen Brown, but even right now Jaylen is better than Josh Jackson.

Celts really need a bigger SG.
Fultz and IT together has the potential to be better than Lilliard and McCollum.

It really doesn't make sense to draft another SF when the Celts have Jaylen and are going after Hayward.

Celts are on the verge of becoming contenders, I'm sure Ainge would prefer Jimmy Butler or Paul George over Josh Jackson.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 am

NYCelt wrote:
fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Fierce,

I agree Fultz likely goes #1.

I think if Boston has a shot at Jackson or Tatum, and Fultz is gone, they take one of them.  Brown can also go at guard, and probably will never develop into the player that Jackson or Tatum will.  Also, selecting Jackson or Tatum may give you the ability in the near future to use either Crowder or Brown to strengthen your bench, or package in a trade.

Regards

I think the Celts will trade the pick if it's not #1.

Reason is Celts are getting older because of Horford's age.
If the Celts are stuck with Tatum or Jackson then it's better to trade that for Jimmy Butler or Paul George.

Celts need to make a move now because they're so close to being a contender.

Thomas is 28 years old.

Horford is going to be 31 after the season.

If it were up to me, Fultz or trade the pick.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 12:11 am

fierce wrote:
Rmbone wrote:
fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Jackson shot 38% from 3 and 44% from 3 the second half of the year. Ignore the cold start to his freshman year, and ignore the confirmation bias idiots who cling to the false notion that he can't shoot. Those guys suck at evaluating shooting ability.

Maybe if the Celts didn't have Jaylen Brown, but even right now Jaylen is better than Josh Jackson.

Celts really need a bigger SG.
Fultz and IT together has the potential to be better than Lilliard and McCollum.

It really doesn't make sense to draft another SF when the Celts have Jaylen and are going after Hayward.

Celts are on the verge of becoming contenders, I'm sure Ainge would prefer Jimmy Butler or Paul George over Josh Jackson.

Jesus, the Celtics just made the ECF as the #1 seed, with homecourt advantage, and a top 4 pick. Jackson is way better value than Hayward, Butler, or George. And Jae Crowder had a better season than Hayward and George, as measured in the advanced stats rather than the simple stats.

And if you think a Lillard/McCollum backcourt is something to aspire to, you don't pay close enough attention to defense. IT is THE worst defender in the NBA, so bad that IT/AB was actually the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA, even worse than Lillard/McCollum. IT/Fultz would obviously be even worse than IT/AB.




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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 12:12 am

fierce wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Fierce,

I agree Fultz likely goes #1.

I think if Boston has a shot at Jackson or Tatum, and Fultz is gone, they take one of them.  Brown can also go at guard, and probably will never develop into the player that Jackson or Tatum will.  Also, selecting Jackson or Tatum may give you the ability in the near future to use either Crowder or Brown to strengthen your bench, or package in a trade.

Regards

I think the Celts will trade the pick if it's not #1.

Reason is Celts are getting older because of Horford's age.
If the Celts are stuck with Tatum or Jackson then it's better to trade that for Jimmy Butler or Paul George.

Celts need to make a move now because they're so close to being a contender.

Thomas is 28 years old.

Horford is going to be 31 after the season.

If it were up to me, Fultz or trade the pick.

Mad

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 12:16 am

The journalists cheering for the Celtics to throw money at Hayward/George/Butler are the same clowns who predicted the Celtics would win 40-something games. Then they said the C's were a weak #1 seed. Then they said we'd lose to the Bulls. Then they said we'd lose to the Wizards. Now they predict the Cavs to steamroll the Celtics, and dismiss the Cs as being "close to contenders".

These clowns would have traded Olynyk, Jaylen, Crowder, and the Nets pick for a 1.5 year rental of Paul George, just to watch George sign with the Lakers. Then these same journalists would be encouraging the Celtics to tank, because that's the only way you end up with a Paul George level player.


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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 12:20 am

Rmbone wrote:
fierce wrote:
Rmbone wrote:
fierce wrote:I watched Fultz this season.

There is no way Fultz is not going #1.

Sure Josh Jackson has a high motor, but so did Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
Not saying that Jackson is the next MKG, but right now Jackson is more potential than finished product.

Markelle Fultz has a very low chance of ending up a bust.

If it was up to me, if the Celts can't get Fultz then trade the pick for a proven star like Butler or George.

Celts already have Jaylen Brown at the 3 spot.
No need for another 3 especially if the Celts are going after Gordon Hayward.

Jackson shot 38% from 3 and 44% from 3 the second half of the year. Ignore the cold start to his freshman year, and ignore the confirmation bias idiots who cling to the false notion that he can't shoot. Those guys suck at evaluating shooting ability.

Maybe if the Celts didn't have Jaylen Brown, but even right now Jaylen is better than Josh Jackson.

Celts really need a bigger SG.
Fultz and IT together has the potential to be better than Lilliard and McCollum.

It really doesn't make sense to draft another SF when the Celts have Jaylen and are going after Hayward.

Celts are on the verge of becoming contenders, I'm sure Ainge would prefer Jimmy Butler or Paul George over Josh Jackson.

Jesus, the Celtics just made the ECF as the #1 seed, with homecourt advantage, and a top 4 pick. Jackson is way better value than Hayward, Butler, or George. And Jae Crowder had a better season than Hayward and George, as measured in the advanced stats rather than the simple stats.

And if you think a Lillard/McCollum backcourt is something to aspire to, you don't pay close enough attention to defense. IT is THE worst defender in the NBA, so bad that IT/AB was actually the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA, even worse than Lillard/McCollum. IT/Fultz would obviously be even worse than IT/AB.




According to reports, Celtics are all in for Hayward.

And you can't be serious about Jae Crowder.

Jae Crowder is not starter material.

I totally disagree that Celts are better off with Jae Crowder than Hayward, Paul George, or Jimmy Butler.

Come on, we have to be realistic here.

There's no way the Celts will win a championship with Crowder as the starting SF.

There's a reason why Hayward, Butler, and George are getting lots of money.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 12:21 am

Rmbone wrote:The journalists cheering for the Celtics to throw money at Hayward/George/Butler are the same clowns who predicted the Celtics would win 40-something games. Then they said the C's were a weak #1 seed. Then they said we'd lose to the Bulls. Then they said we'd lose to the Wizards. Now they predict the Cavs to steamroll the Celtics, and dismiss the Cs as being "close to contenders".

These clowns would have traded Olynyk, Jaylen, Crowder, and the Nets pick for a 1.5 year rental of Paul George, just to watch George sign with the Lakers. Then these same journalists would be encouraging the Celtics to tank, because that's the only way you end up with a Paul George level player.


It's not the journalists, the owner himself, Wyc Grousbeck, said they will be all in for Hayward.


Last edited by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 12:27 am

There's really nothing wrong with Josh Jackson.
It's just that the timing is not right.

Celts are in a win now mode.

If the Celts are an up and coming team like the Sixers, picking Jackson is a good idea.

But right now the Celts need proven star players so that the Celts will be able to beat teams like the Cavs and Warriors.

Celts just don't have time to wait for Josh Jackson to develop.

Horford will be 31 in a few weeks.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 1:00 am

fierce wrote:There's really nothing wrong with Josh Jackson.
It's just that the timing is not right.

Celts are in a win now mode.

If the Celts are an up and coming team like the Sixers, picking Jackson is a good idea.

But right now the Celts need proven star players so that the Celts will be able to beat teams like the Cavs and Warriors.

Celts just don't have time to wait for Josh Jackson to develop.

Horford will be 31 in a few weeks.


Hayward puts up empty points dominating the ball like Isaiah. We already have one of those. There's only one ball to go around, and they both suck on defense. Jae Crowder is a clear positive on both sides of the ball. He's not an offensive star, and he's not flashy, but he makes a star-level impact, and actually a bigger impact than Hayward, George, or Carmelo made this year.

Only Jimmy Butler would be a clear upgrade over Crowder, but it would cost a fortune in assets to get him. Crowder had by far the best +/- per game for the Celtics all year. Despite all of IT's 4th quarter theatrics, the fact is the Celtics were barely + in the 4th quarter with IT on the court. Jae Crowder's quiet two-way impact and 40% 3 point shooting was HUGE for us all year.

There's a reason IT was available for a late first round pick. He doesn't co-exist well with other ball dominant players. He wouldn't co-exist well with Butler, George, or Hayward. But he co-exists great with Crowder, Olynyk, and our other guys.

We wouldn't be in the ECF without Olynyk dominating game 7, and we wouldn't be able to re-sign Olynyk and other important guys if the C's throw money at some flashy empty points scorer.


Danny sees the big picture, Belichick-style, and that's why he didn't throw half our roster at the Pacers or Bulls at the trade deadline, the way you and most other Celtics fans wanted. But then again, most Celtics fans didn't see the #1 seed coming, or the ECF coming, just like you now still don't consider the Celtics to be contenders.

Josh Jackson would be under Celtics' control for 7-12 years, and if you had a more realistic understanding of how good this team is, under this leadership, you wouldn't be so eager to throw a bunch of assets at a 1 year rental like Paul George.

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