Draft Lottery Thread

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 1:17 am

fierce wrote:There's really nothing wrong with Josh Jackson.
It's just that the timing is not right.

Celts are in a win now mode.

If the Celts are an up and coming team like the Sixers, picking Jackson is a good idea.

But right now the Celts need proven star players so that the Celts will be able to beat teams like the Cavs and Warriors.

Celts just don't have time to wait for Josh Jackson to develop.

Horford will be 31 in a few weeks.


Fierce, please ignore my comments tonight. I'm all fired up. Time to crash.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 1:37 am

Rmbone wrote:
fierce wrote:There's really nothing wrong with Josh Jackson.
It's just that the timing is not right.

Celts are in a win now mode.

If the Celts are an up and coming team like the Sixers, picking Jackson is a good idea.

But right now the Celts need proven star players so that the Celts will be able to beat teams like the Cavs and Warriors.

Celts just don't have time to wait for Josh Jackson to develop.

Horford will be 31 in a few weeks.


Hayward puts up empty points dominating the ball like Isaiah. We already have one of those. There's only one ball to go around, and they both suck on defense. Jae Crowder is a clear positive on both sides of the ball. He's not an offensive star, and he's not flashy, but he makes a star-level impact, and actually a bigger impact than Hayward, George, or Carmelo made this year.

Only Jimmy Butler would be a clear upgrade over Crowder, but it would cost a fortune in assets to get him. Crowder had by far the best +/- per game for the Celtics all year. Despite all of IT's 4th quarter theatrics, the fact is the Celtics were barely + in the 4th quarter with IT on the court. Jae Crowder's quiet two-way impact and 40% 3 point shooting was HUGE for us all year.

There's a reason IT was available for a late first round pick. He doesn't co-exist well with other ball dominant players. He wouldn't co-exist well with Butler, George, or Hayward. But he co-exists great with Crowder, Olynyk, and our other guys.

We wouldn't be in the ECF without Olynyk dominating game 7, and we wouldn't be able to re-sign Olynyk and other important guys if the C's throw money at some flashy empty points scorer.


Danny sees the big picture, Belichick-style, and that's why he didn't throw half our roster at the Pacers or Bulls at the trade deadline, the way you and most other Celtics fans wanted. But then again, most Celtics fans didn't see the #1 seed coming, or the ECF coming, just like you now still don't consider the Celtics to be contenders.

Josh Jackson would be under Celtics' control for 7-12 years, and if you had a more realistic understanding of how good this team is, under this leadership, you wouldn't be so eager to throw a bunch of assets at a 1 year rental like Paul George.

I wasn't posting here at the trade deadline.

How could you possibly know if I wanted to trade half the roster when I didn't have an account here at that time?


Last edited by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by fierce on Tue May 16, 2017 1:43 am

I do agree that Paul George must first agree to stay in Boston long term if the Celts are going to trade for him.

Again, there's nothing we can do if most of the NBA experts and Celtic team owner thinks the Celts are better off with Gordon Hayward.

I myself don't think Hayward would leave Utah.
But if Hayward does leave Utah, the Celtics will must go after Hayward.
It's a no-brainer.

At his best, Jae Crowder is just an above average NBA player who should be coming off the bench.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by kdp59 on Tue May 16, 2017 7:13 am

Frank Mason?

really?

he;s already 23 YO, that means at BEST a second round pick into todays NBA draft.

he's also what 5-10?

that means UDFA most likely.

come on rambone, don't get stuck in those past Upshaw arguments here now....LOL.

but I do like your thoughts on Jackson being the best pick for us. I can see Jackson and Jaylen BOTH being starters for us in two years to be honest.

Jackson can be that bigger defensive stopper at the two spot that many think we need. ( But isn't Smart already that?).

Imagine the possibilities in Stevens "position less" Lineup, with both.



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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by jrleftfoot on Tue May 16, 2017 8:23 am

Rmbone wrote:The journalists cheering for the Celtics to throw money at Hayward/George/Butler are the same clowns who predicted the Celtics would win 40-something games. Then they said the C's were a weak #1 seed. Then they said we'd lose to the Bulls. Then they said we'd lose to the Wizards. Now they predict the Cavs to steamroll the Celtics, and dismiss the Cs as being "close to contenders".

These clowns would have traded Olynyk, Jaylen, Crowder, and the Nets pick for a 1.5 year rental of Paul George, just to watch George sign with the Lakers. Then these same journalists would be encouraging the Celtics to tank, because that's the only way you end up with a Paul George levH
Hear,Hear.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 8:40 am

kdp59 wrote:Frank Mason?

really?

he;s already 23 YO, that means at BEST a second round pick into todays NBA draft.

he's also what 5-10?

that means UDFA most likely.

come on rambone, don't get stuck in those past Upshaw arguments here now....LOL.

but I do like your thoughts on Jackson being the best pick for us. I can see Jackson and Jaylen BOTH being starters for us in two years to  be honest.

Jackson can be that bigger defensive stopper at the two spot that many think we need. ( But isn't Smart already that?).

Imagine the possibilities in Stevens "position less"  Lineup, with both.




Malcolm Brogdon was a 23 year old second round rookie this year, and he had a more productive year than DeMar DeRozan when you factor in defense: http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS/position/2

Damian Lillard was a 22-23 year old rookie and he turned out okay. Mason measured out the same height without shoes as Chris Paul, and Chris Paul turned out okay.

CP3, Lowry, Kemba Walker and IT4 are all among the top 10 most productive PGs this year: http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS/position/1

Go ahead and laugh at me, like when I was calling Thon Maker a top 10 talent last year. These draft "experts" you follow like a sheep absolutely suck at evaluating PG talent. They're telling you Lonzo Ball is a great prospect, just like Kris Dunn last year, and Emmanuel Mudiay and D'Lo Russell the year before, and Trey Burke before that, and Austin Rivers, and Dante Exum.


Go ahead and hold Robert Upshaw against me, as if RJ Hunter and Jordan Mickey were so much better. Upshaw failed because of his intangibles and addiction, something we were all well aware of when discussing him. Frank Mason has elite intangibles, work ethic, and defensive intensity.

Frank Mason was a late bloomer. He wasn't supposed to develop this much. And the 5'4" draft "experts" you follow like a sheep can't stand shorter PGs because they remind the "experts" of themselves. So any tall PG that shows up with some hip hop flavor, they hype to the moon, and never learn anything from their annual mistakes.

You'd do well to start learning from their mistakes, and respect my credibility on draft issues.

You won't find a better 2016 pre-draft Big Board than my own:


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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by worcester on Tue May 16, 2017 8:40 am

Rmbone, ditto to all that.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 8:55 am

worcester wrote:Rmbone, ditto to all that.


I also just finished literally writing the book on basketball scouting, the first of its kind and the gold standard for any future attempts. I broke down the psychology behind a whole bunch of scouting mistakes we see every single year, and a lot of other types of scouting mistakes related to player psychology and physiology.

https://scoutshonorbasketball.com/products/the-basketball-scout-handbook

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by kdp59 on Tue May 16, 2017 3:48 pm

Rambone I wasn't laughing at you about Mason, just pointing out reasons why I feel he won't be a first round pick and perhaps may go undrafted.

I said I agree with you on Jackson and a quality pick for us also in my post.

You were correct that Maker would go higher than most thought in the draft, and you were wrong in your assessment on Upshaw the year before. no one gets everything right.

we can all have different opinions without getting ourselves all wrapped up in them. Fact is none of us posting here are REAL NBA scouts (as far as I know).

I enjoy reading your opinions, but try not to take other's differing opinions as attacks on you. I doubt anyone here intends that.




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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by dboss on Tue May 16, 2017 3:57 pm

We are heading to the ECF and all we can talk about is haywood, Butler or George.  

We have Jaylen Brown who will one day be the starting 3 and we have Crowder signed long term.  SF may not be a position of need.  But if we missed on getting Fultz the point forward Josh Jackson would be the logical choice.

I would also suggest that posters consider the CAP issues associated with signing or trading for any high profile players.  Consider who has to go. Consider that IT, AB, KO and MS will be due new contracts.

If we had added any of the players mentioned by the trade deadline there is no guarantee that we would win the title.  The most important element to winning is called Chemistry.  

The Celtics are not in a win now mode but they are winning anyways.  Danny and the brass have stated even recently that they do not think the Celtics are built to win the title just yet.

But I like the direction we are going in.  Capitalize on high end picks because that is how you build a LONG term contender.

George, Butler and Haywood are on summer vacation.  George is the best of the 3 (Haywood is not a strong defender and Butler plays a half-court game)  George will be going to LAL so why trade for him.  

Golden state will be in a pickle soon because they are going to loose the core of their rotation and after locking up Curry and Durant they will be hog-tied for years to come.  The Cavs also have cap space issues and I expect to see declining play from them.  In other words the Celtics are poised to fill the void and ascend to elite status next season.  Whether the Celtics draft Fultz or Jackson they are going to get better.

Next year the draft is loaded with quality bigs and the Celtics will be in the mix again.

We will very likely move some picks but probably retain the Nets picks throughout this process.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by Rmbone on Tue May 16, 2017 4:26 pm

kdp59 wrote:Frank Mason?

come on rambone, don't get stuck in those past Upshaw arguments here now....LOL.



Rambone I wasn't laughing at you about Mason, just pointing out reasons why I feel he won't be a first round pick and perhaps may go undrafted.

Sorry, I mis-interpreted your all caps Laughing Out Loud abbreviation. Must be my lousy logic acting up, like when I advocated for the NBA bust with actual NBA talent two years ago, rather than the two NBA busts without NBA talent (Hunter and Mickey). I should have advocated for the 6'7 rim protector or the shooting specialist who can't shoot.

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by dboss on Tue May 16, 2017 5:24 pm

In a few hours the real debate will begin on who we should draft!

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 16, 2017 6:32 pm

Jay King @ByJayKing
about 1 hour ago
The toughest part about winning the lottery for the Celtics would be convincing Markelle Fultz he's been an underdog his whole life.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by 112288 on Tue May 16, 2017 8:07 pm

SAM....................WHEREVER YOU ARE IN THE UNIVERSE................SEND US #1

GOD SPEED!



112288 & SAM'S CELTIC FORUM MEMBERS!
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobc33 on Tue May 16, 2017 8:17 pm

112288 wrote:SAM....................WHEREVER YOU ARE IN THE UNIVERSE................SEND US #1

GOD SPEED!



112288 & SAM'S CELTIC FORUM MEMBERS!

Yes! Nice thought 112288.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by 112288 on Tue May 16, 2017 8:18 pm

THANKS BOB.............WE ALL OWE WHAT WE HAVE AND ENJOY HERE AT SAM'S CELTIC FORUM EACH DAY TO SAM!

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobc33 on Tue May 16, 2017 8:23 pm

Who is televising the lottery? It's 8:23 and I can't find it.......
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by tjmakz on Tue May 16, 2017 8:27 pm

bobc33 wrote:Who is televising the lottery?  It's 8:23 and I can't find it.......

ESPN
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobc33 on Tue May 16, 2017 8:31 pm

tjmakz wrote:
bobc33 wrote:Who is televising the lottery?  It's 8:23 and I can't find it.......

ESPN

OK, I got it thanks!
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobc33 on Tue May 16, 2017 8:33 pm

TJ a huge night for you as well tonight!

I'm on the edge of my seat..... let's get this going!
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 16, 2017 8:33 pm

bobc33 wrote:Who is televising the lottery?  It's 8:23 and I can't find it.......


ESPN
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Scott Souza @Scott_Souza
4 minutes ago
No matter what happens in #NBADraftLottery tonight #Celtics are still hosting G1 EC Finals. C's not getting screwed in Lottery, #Nets are.
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Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 12 minutes ago
Brady should have been the Cs' rep
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by tjmakz on Tue May 16, 2017 8:36 pm

bobc33 wrote:TJ a huge night for you as well tonight!

I'm on the edge of my seat.....  let's get this going!

A huge night.
My son helps run a group called Lakers Pulse.
I'm sitting next to him as they are live on Facebook and YouTube.
It's a disappointment if the Lakers lose the pick, but I won't be crushed.
I don't think there's a potential superstar in this draft.
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 22 minutes ago
Celtics fans should probably root for the Lakers to keep their pick so the 76ers don't continue to load up.
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bob
MY NOTE: I wholeheartedly agree!!

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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

Post by bobheckler on Tue May 16, 2017 8:41 pm

Clyde 'styling and profiling'
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Re: Draft Lottery Thread

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