End of the road for this season

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End of the road for this season

Post by NYCelt on Thu May 25, 2017 10:49 pm

End of the road for this season.

Do I/should we feel bad about the ending? No. And here's why... July 12, 2013. That's the day we announced the big deal with The Nets. Doc had left just a short time before.

4 years this July, and we're already in the conference final round.

We ran into Cleveland, that's all there is to it. No Celtic players to blame for their performance, the Cavs are just a great team. And we're just 4 years into a total tear it down rebuild. 4 years. Yet we finished first in the conference and played for the conference title. With a roster of mostly bit players that you would never expect to go this far.

Sounds promising to me. And, oh yeah, we've got high draft picks this year and next as well as cash to spend on a free agent or two.

No room to criticize anything here. I've got no problem with any Celtic player's performance, and no problem with officials calls or announcers observations. Not tonight, and not at all. I've got no room for that nonsense, because the team has done great.

Great season. I'm proud to be a Celtics fan.
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by Matty on Thu May 25, 2017 10:55 pm

Let the fireworks begin..
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by bobheckler on Fri May 26, 2017 9:49 am

I agree.  Rather than critique individual performances on the Post-Game thread like I usually do I'm going to take a different perspective here.

1.  The Boston Celtics exceeded every reasonable expectation set for them by every pundit, every sportswriter, every member of this board (except for Matty and Rosalie, who both predicted they'd go all the way and win 16 playoff games).

2.  The only thing that has been consistent about our rebounding all season, including the playoffs, has been that it has been consistently inadequate.  Will Zizic and/or Yabby fix that?  Only if they play defense that justifies putting them on the floor in the first place.  Zizic?  Maybe.  I don't watch enough games in the Turkish league to know how good their pnr defense is but his last coach, David Blatt, no doubt stressed it.  Yabby, on the other hand, has maybe never played pnr defense.  He wasn't getting a lot of minutes in France, nor was that an elite team, and nobody plays any defense in China.  That is why Jimmer is an all-star and 40 year old Starbury is a god.

3.  In this perimeter driven, "don't touch me" league individual offense trumps individual defense.  Utah had one of, if not the, #1 team defenses in the league and they got obliterated by the #1 offense.  Houston's high powered offense lost to the Spurs but the Spurs are a machine, Kawhi is a machine, and Harden's offense failed him in the end.  In other words, the elite offensive player (singular) on Houston didn't perform and the team couldn't compensate, similar to IT going down for us.  To succeed, in this league, you need multiple elite scorers.  Good defense, even great defense, and only one elite scorer (e.g. Utah with Gobert etal but only Hayward speaking for the offense) isn't going to get it done.  Last night the Cavaliers rained 135 points on us.  Some of that was absolutely incredible shooting, them hitting contested shots anyway, but the bottom line wouldn't have changed much even if they were human.  They would have scored 120 instead instead of 135.  You are still going to win most games if you score 120.  We need elite shooters, elite scorers.  We have elite defenders and we had trouble containing elite scorers in the playoffs.  The Cleveland series had 20 quarters (5 games, no OT).  Cleveland had three 40+ point quarters and nine 30+ point quarters.  That's more than half.  Think it's just the World Champion Cleveland Cavaliers doing that?  Washington had two 40+ point quarters and 12 30+ point quarters in 29 quarters (7 games, 1 OT).  Nobody is going to score 30 points in a 5 minute OT, so that's really 14 high scoring quarters our defense gave up in 28 quarters.  That's still half.

4.  Cleveland's "center" is 6'9" Tristan Thompson.  GSW's center is Zaza, who is peripheral at best with 14mpg during the playoffs.  Houston's center was 6'9" Clint Capela.  GSW has Javale McGee but he has ADD and is only playing 10mpg in the playoffs.  The teams who depended upon the beanstalks like The Freak and Maker, or the hulking monsters like Jordan, all exited in the first round.  Optimal ly, I'd like a brute like Zizic (our Zaza) and a beanstalk (would Milwaukee be willing to give up Maker for Crowder plus a non-Net pick?).

The season is over.  A no-doubt excellent series between GSW and Cleveland is upcoming.  Draft workouts will be scheduled over the next few weeks and we'll cover those here on the board and in less than 4 weeks (5/22) is the draft.  Thank you, Boston Celtics, for making the time between the end of the regular season and summer league so short.


bob


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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by beat on Fri May 26, 2017 10:55 am

Bob H wrote

Draft workouts will be scheduled over the next few weeks

well not for everyone, and not everywhere

beat
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by mulcogiseng on Fri May 26, 2017 12:06 pm

Sad to see the season end but there is a lot of positive to take from this past season. We have learned a lot about the roster and what it is capable of. These guys were good enough to exceed the win total, have the best record in the EC, and take the defending NBA champs to 5 games. Not to shabby.

I watched the past two games with an eye for how I would think Guerschon and Ante would do, given the situations that developed during the game.

We all know that one of our most pressing needs is for rebounding and rim protection. Can there really be any doubt at this point that Zizic would be an upgrade over Mickey, Zeller, Jerebko and Johnson? His skill set is exactly what this team needs. He has performed well and above expectations at every level he has played at. It is not a common occurrence for a player in the Adriatic league to be signed to a Euro League team mid season. Yet that is what happened and it is because Blat wanted Zizic, knew that he would improve their team. And that is what he did. He didn't just go to a team in the Turkish league, but to premier level EuroLeague as well. My general expectations for guys like Zizic, Yabusele and Brown is to figure it out and average 10/5 a game. Zizic would probably have averaged at least 10/10 in backup minutes this playoff season. I expect more next year because he will be such a nice fit with who we already have. I really wanted him on the team this year. I feel that new players who are still so young need a veteran to play behind as they learn the game. I felt that Amir was exactly that kind of role model for Ante. With the way things look, he could be our starting center next year. That is the only thing that gives me pause about Ante being on the team next year. He will get boards and defend the rim and he is just a kid with nothing but upside.

Yabusele is a similar story. He has played well at every level he has played at. He is another player that I would expect 10/5 from. Again, his skill set is exactly what this team needs. We need an alternative scorer to IT and AB. This edition of the Celtics play best when they run the motion offense that goes into good passing bigs like Al and KO. Give the ball to Guerschon and he will hit the 3 or take it to the rim. One of the things that make Queenie so great is how strong he is and his ability to dominate other players physically. Yabusele has some of that ability to truly punish a defender. No doubt in my mind that his offensive skill set is exactly what was missing all season and especially in the playoffs. Not much question about Ante's ability to play NBA Defense, Yabusele is another story. It doesn't mean that he can't, he is after all is said and done still The Dancing Bear.

Brad has a system the players need to learn and master for the team to do well. These guys did a great job this year. Or at least they did the best they could. That is why we need to upgrade. When the Celtics play fast paced, make the extra pass and hit the open man, they can be unbeatable and absolutely competitive with the Cavs and Warriors. The problem is consistency. And trusting the system enough to keep playing the way you should rather than rely on hero ball.

spoiler alert: neither Zizic nor Yabusele have ever played in the NBA. We can't know for sure how they will make the adjustment. OK? LOL

We have two bigs joining the team who have the skills needed to improve the C's. Yabusele will blossom playing behind Horford. Can Zizic start as an NBA rookie? These two players alone will dramatically change the nature of the team and how they play. They are both an upgrade over what we had this season. It remains to be seen just how much impact they will have. But I am very hopeful.

Yabusele's injury: I am often puzzled, like many others here, how a player can have an injury that might require surgery and yet the procedure is often delayed so that it can impact the start of the NBA season. Questions like "When did this happen" Was this in any way a part of the announced ankle injury that they talked about when he came over from China? Too bad about missing summer league and getting the jump on learning the C's system but he did have that time in Maine.

We have to trust the process.

17goingon18
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by kdp59 on Fri May 26, 2017 12:17 pm

I like to think i am a realist and not a pessimist. But I would not bet my roster next year or two guys who will be rookies in the NBA next year who were NOT high lottery picks.

maybe just me.

Can/should Zizic replace Zeller...... well yes for one thing he will cost about $1.5M instead of $8M. Should we expect him to do much more than replace Zelelrs minutes as a rookie.....I wouldn't bet on it.

Yabusele...my lord, who knows what we have with him, But I wuld not be counting on 10pt and 5 reb a game as a rook. replace Mickey on the roster at about the same cost...sure thing.


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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by NYCelt on Fri May 26, 2017 12:36 pm

kdp59 wrote:I like to think i am a realist and not a pessimist. But I would not bet my roster next year or two guys who will be rookies in the NBA next year who were NOT high lottery picks.

maybe just me.

Can/should Zizic replace Zeller...... well yes for one thing he will cost about $1.5M instead of $8M. Should we expect him to do much more than replace Zelelrs minutes as a rookie.....I wouldn't bet on it.

Yabusele...my lord, who knows what we have with him, But I wuld not be counting on 10pt and 5 reb a game as a rook. replace Mickey on the roster at about the same cost...sure thing.



kdp,

Good observations on Zizic and Yabusele.

My own take on those two was that they were total flyers taken by Ainge & Co. (crap shoots on purpose for those of you that think of the draft that way).

There wasn't thought to be any real immediate roster room for anyone available in the range of those picks, so I think Boston went with a possible Draymond Green clone and a big who might be able to fill a traditional role.  I think both were what I would describe as all-or-nothing shots.  If neither ever played in the NBA, I wouldn't be at all surprised.  Both were a reach, selected higher than one would expect.  I believe the sheer number of picks we accumulated, and what looked like a strong 3rd pick last year, allowed Boston to take a gamble on coming up empty and not be hurt in the long run.  There also could be potential for a surprise of some meaningful contribution between the two.  That would be a nice payoff for the risk of shooting blanks that was taken.

Regards
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by kdp59 on Fri May 26, 2017 12:39 pm

I should have noted that both players could BECOME rotational NBA players. I have no idea at this point.

I was only talking what I was expecting as Rookies next year
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by mulcogiseng on Fri May 26, 2017 12:42 pm

I'll bet both of you $100.00 that both make the roster and play rotation minutes next season. Barring injury or trade. Remember this is the Boston Celtics, the team of overachievers. lol
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by bobheckler on Fri May 26, 2017 1:38 pm




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bob


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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by Rmbone on Fri May 26, 2017 1:50 pm

bobheckler wrote:I agree.  Rather than critique individual performances on the Post-Game thread like I usually do I'm going to take a different perspective here.

1.  The Boston Celtics exceeded every reasonable expectation set for them by every pundit, every sportswriter, every member of this board (except for Matty and Rosalie, who both predicted they'd go all the way and win 16 playoff games).

2.  The only thing that has been consistent about our rebounding all season, including the playoffs, has been that it has been consistently inadequate.  Will Zizic and/or Yabby fix that?  Only if they play defense that justifies putting them on the floor in the first place.  Zizic?  Maybe.  I don't watch enough games in the Turkish league to know how good their pnr defense is but his last coach, David Blatt, no doubt stressed it.  Yabby, on the other hand, has maybe never played pnr defense.  He wasn't getting a lot of minutes in France, nor was that an elite team, and nobody plays any defense in China.  That is why Jimmer is an all-star and 40 year old Starbury is a god.

3.  In this perimeter driven, "don't touch me" league individual offense trumps individual defense.  Utah had one of, if not the, #1 team defenses in the league and they got obliterated by the #1 offense.  Houston's high powered offense lost to the Spurs but the Spurs are a machine, Kawhi is a machine, and Harden's offense failed him in the end.  In other words, the elite offensive player (singular) on Houston didn't perform and the team couldn't compensate, similar to IT going down for us.  To succeed, in this league, you need multiple elite scorers.  Good defense, even great defense, and only one elite scorer (e.g. Utah with Gobert etal but only Hayward speaking for the offense) isn't going to get it done.  Last night the Cavaliers rained 135 points on us.  Some of that was absolutely incredible shooting, them hitting contested shots anyway, but the bottom line wouldn't have changed much even if they were human.  They would have scored 120 instead instead of 135.  You are still going to win most games if you score 120.  We need elite shooters, elite scorers.  We have elite defenders and we had trouble containing elite scorers in the playoffs.  The Cleveland series had 20 quarters (5 games, no OT).  Cleveland had three 40+ point quarters and nine 30+ point quarters.  That's more than half.  Think it's just the World Champion Cleveland Cavaliers doing that?  Washington had two 40+ point quarters and 12 30+ point quarters in 29 quarters (7 games, 1 OT).  Nobody is going to score 30 points in a 5 minute OT, so that's really 14 high scoring quarters our defense gave up in 28 quarters.  That's still half.

4.  Cleveland's "center" is 6'9" Tristan Thompson.  GSW's center is Zaza, who is peripheral at best with 14mpg during the playoffs.  Houston's center was 6'9" Clint Capela.  GSW has Javale McGee but he has ADD and is only playing 10mpg in the playoffs.  The teams who depended upon the beanstalks like The Freak and Maker, or the hulking monsters like Jordan, all exited in the first round.  Optimal ly, I'd like a brute like Zizic (our Zaza) and a beanstalk (would Milwaukee be willing to give up Maker for Crowder plus a non-Net pick?).

The season is over.  A no-doubt excellent series between GSW and Cleveland is upcoming.  Draft workouts will be scheduled over the next few weeks and we'll cover those here on the board and in less than 4 weeks (5/22) is the draft.  Thank you, Boston Celtics, for making the time between the end of the regular season and summer league so short.


bob


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I'd trade the #1 pick for Thon Maker, but MIL wouldn't do it. If Thon had gone to college last year, he'd be the #1 pick by a mile.

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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by gyso on Fri May 26, 2017 2:02 pm

Don't we have a Zizic thread kicking around the board somewhere? I remember reading somewhere that Zizic would be considered to be a lottery pick this year, due to his good showing over across the big pond this past season.

Maybe we should look at him in that light instead of holding his draft position from last year against him. We should not limit our expectations that way.

Time will tell, perhaps Danny hit one over the fence with that pick.

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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by wideclyde on Fri May 26, 2017 3:05 pm

My thoughts on Zizic and Yabusele are that if they can add to the rotation of the Cs next year they will be at least somewhat overachieving. Of course, I hope that they do better and can add some new athleticism to our team.

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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by Rmbone on Fri May 26, 2017 3:29 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:I'll bet both of you $100.00 that both make the roster and play rotation minutes next season. Barring injury or trade. Remember this is the Boston Celtics, the team of overachievers. lol

Speaking of bets, I'll bet somebody $500 in Monopoly money that Zizic will have a better career than Dragan Bender.

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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by dboss on Sat May 27, 2017 9:32 am

Watching the Celtics get blasted during the Cavs series was somewhat painful even though I had no expectation that they could win.

In the end this team gave us hope and a genuine belief that the Celtics are well on their way to greater things.

Next up the draft and THE #1 pick. Still is hard to believe.

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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat May 27, 2017 12:35 pm

Were way ahead of schedule
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by bobheckler on Sat May 27, 2017 1:11 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Were way ahead of schedule


Cow,

I agree.  4 years into a minimum 3-5 year rebuild (it probably could have been changed to a 4-7 year rebuild after Danny traded our only All-Star, Rajon Rondo) and we're in the Conference Finals.  Only won one but we were down IT and banged up (Amir/shoulder, AB/hip pointers, JB/hip pointer, JC/groin pull).  If Cleveland had lost Kyrie (like we lost IT) and Thompson (Amir) and JR Smith had hip pointers and Korver had hip pointers...well, I think you can see where I'm going with this.  We still might not have won but it would have been far, far more competitive.  That tells me a healthy Celtic squad isn't too far off from opening a lot of eyes around the league (especially among free agents).  And it's only going to get better...

Another year for Jaylen Brown and Rozier, the #1 pick and Zizic, Yabby and Nader (Oh My!) and we've got our cheapy cheap youth movement in full swing.  What Danny needs to do then is get some more talent so we can continue to compete, continue to get deep into the playoffs and gain the invaluable experience that comes with that and 2-3 years from now our kiddies will be grown up and with 2-3 years of quality playoff experience, our veterans won't be too old (or Danny swaps one or two of them out while they still have value) and LeBron is 34-35 years old.  At that time our worries won't be Cleveland so much as Philly and Minny.  The difference with them and us is that in order for them to catch us they will have to trade some of that youth in exchange for veterans because getting our kind of playoff experience for their kids, without veterans leading the way for them, is going to be tough, but if they do improve enough to make the playoffs then they won't be getting the high quality draft picks we are going to have this year and probably next too.  In other words, their success will also act like a drag chute on their climb.  And 2-3 years from now KAT and Embiid and Simmons will be getting close to contract extensions/renewals and their GMs will have to start making tough decisions about who to keep, and for how much.  Right now life is easy for them.  Everybody they need is young, everybody they need is on rookie contracts, so there is no need to decide who they should trade.  


bob


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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat May 27, 2017 8:44 pm

Bob I think even if we were at full strength it ends in 5 this year, they are just peaking with their Big 3 all playing at superstar level....by 19 we could be ready to make it to Finals with a young deep team ready for a reign of terror. By the way love seeing those you tube clips of Zizic, kid loves playing thru contact and has a motor and length. As much as you need shooters you still need bangers and Zizic sure can fill that need for us.
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Re: End of the road for this season

Post by mulcogiseng on Sun May 28, 2017 9:44 am

The C's will be much more competitive next year and will come closer to the 60 wins it should take to take top seed in the EC. We were only 2 1/2 games away from the Finals this year. A LeBron led team can always be had by a Celtics team. The Process is on track. The "Oh My" group is waiting in the wings to come in and have a chance to contribute. The core is intact. With IT leading the way, willing to forego an extension to improve the team, the attitude is Green Pride. Next year is going to be amazing but that process is non stop from NOW! The Draft, FA season, summer league, WoW!
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Re: End of the road for this season

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