The Markelle Fultz Thread

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by Matty on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:51 am

KyleCleric wrote:
swish wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:Fultz has tremendous defensive upside with his athleticism, length, size, and quickness. That part of his game will be far more important to his value to the Celtics than it was for Washington and he will need to be coached up.

He'll be a heck of a Celtic. Unless we can get one of the top valued players in the NBA (Davis, Towns, Leonard, Durant, Lebron, Giannis, Harden, Westbrook, Curry), we need to just make the pick. He's the best NBA prospect in years and would be the best player in next years draft when we're again hopefully looking at a top pick. It would be great to have upside that Brown, Fultz, and Ayton (or Bamba or Doncic or Porter) represent with the core group of Isaiah, Horford, and hopefully Hayward.

 You don't win championships on "upside" - you win championships with super elite players.

 swish

Those are the quickest route with the longest window to super elite players that will have us competing for championships.
 !##$&// you kyle!!

 Where ya been hiding g bro?
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 pm

I agree with both Bob and Cowens. Might I add that all this one and done stuff actually makes the job of the GM harder. When Ewing came out of Georgetown, he was the clear #1. When it's a big guy, Shaq, Towns, Davis....it's a lot easier, because they sometimes take longer to develop anyway. LeBron and Durant I would say would be the exceptions to forwards/guards. Even Leonard wasn't "good" until year 2. He was pretty good as a rookie. Kyrie, Wall, Rose......they were all pretty good. It's more of a crap shoot with guards.

But, I'll take my chances on Fultz. If he turns out to be a bust, I won't blame Danny. I don't think he will, but there is no consensus anyway... not this year. So take the kid and don't look back. Brown, Fultz and next years pick, and we're good to go
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:09 pm

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/06/07/heres-what-markelle-fultz-said-about-his-visit-to-boston



Here’s what Markelle Fultz said — and saw –during his visit to Boston
"I gotta earn everything."



This Feb. 26, 2017 photo shows Washington guard Markelle Fultz. This Feb. 26, 2017 photo shows Washington guard Markelle Fultz. –AP



By Gary Dzen  10:09 AM



It’s possible Markelle Fultz never saw the sun during his rainy, two-day visit to Boston this week.

The former University of Washington guard was here meeting with officials from the team which holds the No. 1 pick in the upcoming NBA Draft.  Fultz worked out for Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens, took a physical, and even grabbed a burger with the Celtics president of basketball operations at the local b.good chain.



Jeremy Rubin @JeremyRubin10
@stoolpresidente @FelgerAndMazz @StoolGreenie caught @MarkelleF lookin at the next 10 banners. Put my life on Fultz at the 1.
6:08 PM - 5 Jun 2017
 149 149 Retweets   287 287 likes

“Everything went well,” Ainge told the Boston Globe following the visit. “He’s very talented. … “Every time I sit down and talk to him, I just get to know him a little better. He’s a great kid.”

Fultz spoke to two news outlets — ESPN and CSNNE — while in Boston. He told CSNNE that meeting with the Celtics was “a good experience”, and that he was able to navigate the city without being noticed too much.

“People didn’t really recognize me,” said Fultz. “I wear hats and hoodies so it’s kind of hard to see me. I stay low-key. That’s the way I am.”
The only news of sorts to come out of Fultz’s chat with CSNNE is that Fultz hasn’t committed to working out for any other teams, but he hasn’t ruled it out, either.

Fultz may have remained fairly inconspicuous during the trip, but he did give Celtics fans a glimpse of what he looks like in a Celtics uniform.




In addition, he checked out the banners at TD Garden and the mural in front of the locker room.

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Markelle Fultz checks out the banners at TD Garden during a tour with ESPN. Says it kinda feels like he belongs here.



Chris Forsberg‏Verified account @ESPNForsberg  21h21 hours ago
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Markelle Fultz outside Celtics locker room. It's also Boston's war room and where they will phone in the No. 1 pick.


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Fultz told ESPN that he would like to wear the No. 20, last worn in Boston by Ray Allen.

“I would want to wear No. 20, just because a lot of history behind that number, through high school and college,” Fultz said. “[But] it doesn’t really matter about the number; it matters about what I do.”

But Fultz also isn’t counting his chickens, and says he has no promises from the Celtics that he’ll be the pick, adding, “I gotta earn everything.”


The Celtics may visit with Fultz again, and Ainge said the Celtics are working on setting up visits with other players. Fultz made it clear during his visit that he’d be happy to end up here.

“It’s crazy. I think it’s a great organization,” Fultz told ESPN. “They really care about you, on and off the court. They really just want the best for young men and people like me. They told me stuff I need to work on, they told me stuff that was good. I think that’s the biggest thing, just helping me grow on and off the court, it’s always what I’ve been about and I think that’s special.”


bob


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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:15 pm

NICE!!
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:48 pm

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4726199/markelle-fultzs-final-boston-stop-a-brad-stevens-film-session



Markelle Fultz's final Boston stop? A Brad Stevens film session



10:08 AM PT


Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19563580


BOSTON -- Markelle Fultz's two-day visit with the Boston Celtics culminated with a lengthy film session with head coach Brad Stevens, in which the 19-year-old's game was critiqued and Stevens offered a brief glimpse into Boston's offensive and defensive philosophies.

The Celtics own the No. 1 pick in this month's draft, and Fultz is widely considered the top available prospect. Fultz performed a solo workout for Boston on Tuesday and, later during a tour of TD Garden with ESPN, said, "It almost feels like I belong here."

For Stevens, these private film sessions are an opportunity to get to know a potential pick in one of the coach's favorite environments. They also offer a small glimpse of just how coachable that player might be.

For his part, Fultz embraced the opportunity and enjoyed hearing Stevens critique his play.

"It’s good to hear [criticism]. That's what I've always wanted to hear, ever since I was younger," Fultz said. "I don't really like to hear the good stuff; I try to hear what can make me better because that's something I can work on."

Fultz said Stevens pointed out both positive and negative plays, but he said the message overall was finding ways to improve at the NBA level.

"[Stevens noted] little stuff about playing defense, better ways to help me," Fultz said. "[He highlighted] offensive stuff he liked that I did, the way I come off screen and rolls and different stuff like that. Also, stuff I can improve on on both ends, stuff I did good on the defensive end, too. It was both good and bad."

Stevens, 40, now has four NBA seasons under his belt, but remember that Fultz wasn't even a teenager yet when Butler made consecutive trips to the Final Four with Butler in 2010 and 2011. Still, Fultz is well aware of Stevens' coaching abilities.


Markelle Fultz was impressed with Boston and Celtics head coach Brad Stevens. Jennifer Pottheiser/Getty Images


"I always thought he was a good coach; just X's and O's and the way he cares about his players," Fultz said. "You ask any of the players that played under him, they're always going to say he did what was best for them. He's a players' coach."

So what kind of player can Stevens and the Celtics expect if Boston selects Fultz with the No. 1 pick on draft night?

"If the Celtics happen to draft me, they're going to get a young player who's going to give it their all every night," Fultz said. "Whether that's scoring the ball, whether that's going to get a block, whether that's rebounding, whether that's sitting on the bench encouraging the players to play better, I'm always going to give it my all."

Added Fultz: "I would say [in] my game, I don't think there's one thing I can't do. I can score all three levels, I can go and get a rebound at any point of the game, I can go block a shot. That's pretty much what I would say: I'm versatile. I can guard the 1, 2, 3. I can do anything you need me to do to win a game."

Fultz said the Celtics did not discuss whether they would take him with the No. 1 pick, noting that he prefers not to know in advance of draft night.

"I don't want to know. I'd rather wait to that day to hear my name called, wherever I go," Fultz said. "That's just the way I am. I don't want anything to be given to me, I want to earn everything. So just wait until that last moment, just sitting in that chair, being anxious to see if I'm going to be No. 1 or wherever I go. I think that's going to be better than already knowing going in. ... I'd rather wait to that big day."




bob



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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:23 pm

Matty wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:
swish wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:Fultz has tremendous defensive upside with his athleticism, length, size, and quickness. That part of his game will be far more important to his value to the Celtics than it was for Washington and he will need to be coached up.

He'll be a heck of a Celtic. Unless we can get one of the top valued players in the NBA (Davis, Towns, Leonard, Durant, Lebron, Giannis, Harden, Westbrook, Curry), we need to just make the pick. He's the best NBA prospect in years and would be the best player in next years draft when we're again hopefully looking at a top pick. It would be great to have upside that Brown, Fultz, and Ayton (or Bamba or Doncic or Porter) represent with the core group of Isaiah, Horford, and hopefully Hayward.

 You don't win championships on "upside" - you win championships with super elite players.

 swish

Those are the quickest route with the longest window to super elite players that will have us competing for championships.
 !##$&// you kyle!!

 Where ya been hiding g bro?


Hi Matty. Glad to see you! Celts are an exciting team, 50+ win, young, cap space, #1 pick, and hopefully another top pick next year. Can they open themselves to be a true contender next season? Can they do that and have a long championship window? It's a unique situation.

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:33 pm

Well it certainly sounds like things went well.

Thus far everything is working out the way that we would want it to. This was a very important meeting for the Celtics. They need to be 100% certain that Fultz is their guy.

dboss

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:56 pm

Hey Kyle

Since I am online I wuld like to share my thoughts

"Can they open themselves to be a true contender next season? Can they do that and have a long championship window?"

The bar to win a championship was raised when Lebron went back to Cleveland where they assembled their Big three.

Then that bar was raised again by GS when Durant chose them over us.

I simply cannot recall any team ever that is that good on offense.  They have 4 legit ballers and a very impressive rotation.

However as good as their ballers are, you cannot win a championship unless you have a solid bench and given the upcoming contracts for their two MVP level players it will be very difficult to retain a quality rotation.  

That opens the door for a team like Boston.  But before that can happen there is still work to be done.  We need to stock this team with half a dozen reliable shooters and find a guy who can knock someone on their ass and grab a rebound.

If Boston drafts Fultz AND if Jaylen Brown makes a big 2nd year jump we will have 5 of the 6 in place.  (It, AB, AH, MF and JB)  We will need another one and preferably a big to help balance off this team.

The Celtics are a team that is quick enough to play with anybody but not good enough to shoot with anybody.

Given all the assets still in he bank the team is well set up to become a great team stocked with young talent which translates into a long term championship run!

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:30 pm

Hi dboss,

Looking at that roster setup, the perfect player in FA could be Milsap as he can balance out the rotation. He can knock down an outside shot as well as score. He's a good rebounder and an excellent defensive player. Unlike Hayward and Griffin, we probably wouldn't need to clear cap (likely Bradley or Crowder) as we likely won't need to give him a max contract. He could then be a mentor for Yabusele who should model his style of play on him. Depending on the contract, it could set up the Celtics to also be able to re-sign Olynyk.

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by Rmbone on Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:25 am

Some interesting comments about Markelle Fultz (Vs D'Angelo Russell)

76ersTheDuckyNinja 1 point 3 hours ago
So, let's do the stat take and then the scout take.
Stat take: Both of these guys played on bad teams. Fultz's numbers should be taken with a grain of salt - he was significantly better against non-conference competition, and he missed 6 games against conference opponents. By the combined metrics, Russell was significantly better in both WS/48 and BPM. Russell had a higher TS% and eFG%. Fultz got to the line more and had more blocks. But again, Russell played 10 more games than Fultz - 6 more conference games + 4 postseason games. The stat edge goes to Russell, and I'm not entirely sure it's close.
Scout take: Now, let me say right off the bat that I am not a pro scout by any means, and while I watched a lot of Russell, I did not watch nearly as much Fultz. That being said, they are different types of players. Fultz is undoubtedly more athletic, and is more of a slasher and scorer, while Russell is more reliant on his vision, passing, and smarts. On defense, neither did anything in college to inspire much confidence. If I had to give a guess, I'd say Russell was more likely to be at least a decent starter (which at 20 is already pretty close to where he's at), whereas Fultz has a little more risk (slightly less convinced of his shooting stroke, smarts, and is a little too reliant on his athletic ability right now) and a little more upside. I would guess that Fultz takes a little longer to develop than Russell has.
Overall: Fultz is a good prospect, but I think he's a half-step below recent #1 picks (Bennett not withstanding). I think he's going to take awhile to develop, but he certainly has elite upside if a team is patient with him. Compared to PG prospects since 2010, he's not in the same league as Wall or Kyrie, but there have been shockingly few elite PG prospects since then. As in...Russell, and that's it. So saying he's one of the best PG prospects this decade isn't wrong, it's just that there's not a whole lot of other guys in that discussion. It's Wall and Kyrie, and then Russell, Fultz, and Ball (depending on how you feel about him - I have made the argument on this sub that Ball is at least Fultz's equal). While apparently people don't like /u/ivanalexander23, I don't think his take is too far off here - Fultz a top-end talent with high upside, but he has risk, and I wouldn't fault you for liking Ball/DSJ/Tatum/Jackson/Fox more. Fultz simply is not in the same tier as true elite prospects like Simmons, Davis, and Wall, and should not be treated as such.
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[–]ivanalexander23 2 points 2 hours ago
100% agree. One caveat. Fultz is physically capable of more. It's his motor and too cool for school approach that has me worried. I watched about 12 games of Fultz. In pretty much every game against good teams he was a major reason why they fell behind in the 1st half. He would brick and play bad D. Then when the game was well in hand and the other team was letting their foot off the gas being up 20, Fultz would play his 38 minutes to make sure the stats made it look like he had a good game. Against the poorer teams he was obviously more skilled but even then he often needed circus shots to get off. He's very talented. I think the defensive lapses are mostly mental but it's mental for all bad defenders and it mostly never changes so legit concern of mine. DR has a clutch gene I appreciate. He is going to eat as a SG. That's another thing I don't see from Fultz. But Fultz has an athleticism advantage. It's a fair comparison. But to hear Fultz fanboys you'd think he was the best PG since Wall and I don't see it. As a Celtic fan I hope I'm wrong. And what is with people feeling the need to withhold props to the other point guards. How can this be an amazing draft class yet none of these really good point guards are in the same league as Fultz? WTF?! Each of them, in their own unique way is a damned good PG prospect. Ntilikina with 2nd best size, best D and 2nd best PnR. Fultz with best PnR, good shooter, best body control, DSJ with elite first step and all around combo of scorer and facilitator, Fox with elite speed, good D, Ball with best size, elite passing, elite BBIQ and deep range. These kids are all excellent in their own right and any one of them might end up being the best of the group when all is said and done. But not according to Fultz fanboys. Nope! He's gotta be generational and head and shoulders above everyone. Too funny. Never change fanboys!

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by fierce on Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:43 am

Gary Washburn: Hearing the Markelle Fultz workout with the #Celtics went very well — as expected. #NBAdraft2017 43 mins ago – via Twitter GwashburnGlobe
Draft, Markelle Fultz, Boston Celtics
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by KyleCleric on Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:56 am

Jon Givony of Draftexpress, when asked if Fultz was in last year's draft where would he be slotted. Givony replied, "Number 1 easily, and I would honestly have Lonzo Ball ahead of Ben Simmons too."

https://sports.yahoo.com/video/woj-report-draft-lottery-order-120000042.html

...at about the 1:40 mark

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by KyleCleric on Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:00 am

Keith Smith on twitter

@KeithSmithNBA

Asked NBA folks about where Luka Doncic & Michael Porter Jr. would be in this draft. Consensus was just behind Markelle Fultz at 2 & 3.

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:47 am

So, a non-professional scout says that Fultz isn't as good as D'Angelo Russell.  Russell sucks.  We'll see.  Almost everybody else seems to disagree.

Doesn't say much about Ben Simmons that he's falling further and further out of 1st place with each successive draft.  Him missing an entire season and summer league this year too has got to be worrisome.  The Philly drafting philosophy was "get the talent, be patient through their injuries".  That's what they did/are doing with Embiid, that's what they did with Noel (and then traded him), that's what they are doing with Okafor (50 and 53 games in his first 2 seasons).

Danny Ainge was asked how Markelle Fultz's workout went and Danny deadpanned "he did great against a chair".  Apparently there weren't any games vs live players included.


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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:07 am

Here's another non-professional scout's opinion.


http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/5/15736110/why-markelle-fultz-isnt-a-defensive-liability-boston-celtics-nba-draft



Why Markelle Fultz isn’t a defensive liability


The James Harden comparisons only work on one side of the floor


by Alex Kungu@Kungu_NBA  


Jun 5, 2017, 12:00pm EDT



Jennifer Buchanan-USA TODAY Sports



The Markelle Fultz hype train is rolling high as ever and it won’t be stopping anytime soon. The number one prospect has quickly been gaining widespread praise for his elite offensive game that has drawn comparisons to players such as James Harden, Brandon Roy, and even Dwyane Wade. With that praise, however, has come one specific criticism of the 19-year old prospect, his defense.

Whether it’s Draft Express, amateur scouts, or even casual observers, the consensus seems to be that Fultz is a sieve on defense who most likely can’t share the floor with Isaiah Thomas for long periods of time.

I’m not here to tell you that Fultz will come into the league and become the next Kwahi Leonard, but after reviewing Washington’s season one thing became pretty clear; he’s not the bad defender that he has been made out to be. In fact, I’d even go as far to say that he’s actually a good defender and could be an even better one with the Boston Celtics.

To breakdown Fultz defensive potential there needs to a nexus of things to consider. First, who the Washington Huskies were as a defensive team, what were the causes of Fultz’s struggles defensively, and then where Fultz’s strengths can translate to an NBA team.


Washington Huskies Defense

It sticks out like a sore thumb and you don’t have to be expert to see it. The Huskies defense was dreadful. Per teamrankings.com, the Huskies ranked 319th out of the 351 Division 1 teams. That’s behind schools like Delaware, Drexel, and the Incarnate Word Cardinals (me either). Former Coach Lorenzo Romar played zone a majority of the season. Primarily it was either a 2-3 or a 3-2.

The problem with zone defense is instead of staying at the hip of a particular man, you’re defending a certain area. Against a bad team it has its advantages. The primary focus is to get teams out of the paint and shooting jumpers. But there are drawbacks. Any average college team knows that if you swing the ball consistently and get the defense moving from side to side you can get into the teeth of the defense. Those repercussions are even more serious for a team like Washington because their frontcourt consists of, 6’8 Noah Dickerson, 6’9 Malik Dime, 6’9 Samuel Timmins, and 6’3 Carlos Johnson who was frequently used as a frontcourt player. Needless to say, teams had the zone figured out, and the results for Washington turned out horribly.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BraveEdibleFlycatcher-mobile.mp4

David Crisp was one of the main culprits for the defensive breakdowns. The 6’0 guard constantly was either getting himself out of position in zone or unable to keep up with his man.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MarriedVainAustraliancattledog-mobile.mp4

Defenses move as strings, specifically zones where if one player gets out of wack and other guys get into new zones to recover, the defense is toast. This happened a lot for the Huskies defense and a lot of those errors came in Crisp’s area.

Furthermore, when the team did play man defense, it actually wasn’t as bad, though a lot of that had to do with the fact that they usually only played that defense against lesser teams that they were confident they could keep up with. However, even then, the lack of size really hampered the team. The Huskies ranked 222nd in defensive rebounding percentage, and if already having a struggling defense wasn’t enough, giving up extra possessions only added fuel to the fire.

The next question is what was Markelle Fultz’s roles in all this turmoil?


Markelle Fultz Defensive Struggles

Though Fultz wasn’t the defenses main problem, he also wasn’t without blame.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScholarlyUltimateCoqui-mobile.mp4

As we’ll get to later, Fultz was a victim of some of his teammates defensive lapses, but it is worth noting that he did make a few mental mistakes of his own. At times he could step a too far from his zone and get messed up on the contest. Other times it seemed like he gave up position on defense in order to pursue blocks.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BitterBleakBelugawhale-mobile.mp4

Here, this looks like a great play by Fultz, but at the next-level if he gave up position like that he would either get scored on, be called for a foul, or both.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TalkativeForkedIvorybilledwoodpecker-mobile.mp4

Fultz makes mistakes. He’s not perfect. But a majority of his mistakes have a lot less to do with inability, and a lot more with mental lapses and some bad decision making.


Markelle Fultz as a defensive factor

The other side of this argument is that despite some of his flaws, Fultz is a positive on the defensive end.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OrderlyLightAmericansaddlebred-mobile.mp4

Fultz gets a lot of credit for his ability to make big-time highlight blocks, but that same timing and anticipation is what also makes him an overall solid defender. Regardless of the competition, Fultz seems to know four things; where he is, where the ball is, where his man is, and how to move on a string. As the year progressed, Fultz became more vocal and by January he was already pointing out to his teammates where they were supposed to be on defense. Unlike his reputation, which paints him as a lackluster defender who didn’t want to play defense, Fultz was more than willing to back up his teammates and took more than his fair share of charges.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlippantInexperiencedBeardeddragon-mobile.mp4

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BigSentimentalJumpingbean-mobile.mp4


That last play raises another important point as well. Look at the time of the game. College has 20 minutes halves, 40 minute games, and Fultz averaged 35.7mpg. A majority of his break time comes in the first half which means it’s all too common to see Fultz playing the last 17 miuntes of the game straight. Despite this, he still regularly made great defenses plays near the end of the game.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LateAdvancedFishingcat-mobile.mp4

When you’re playing that many minutes every night and accounting for almost half of your teams total offense, the sporadic mental lapses make more sense. It’s also possible that with more controlled minutes, Fultz would actually have less of those lapses. However, Fultz has shown an ability to defend at a high-level.


What should we expect from Fultz on the defensive end?

Markelle Fultz is not an elite defensive prospect, and this wasn’t written to tell you otherwise. However, that doesn’t mean he’s a pushover, and he shouldn’t be considered a net negative.

Defense is about team harmony, especially in the NBA. Guys moves are based on rotations that are based on where either the defense dictates the offense or where the defense has to recover after the offense throws them off. All five guys have to move on a string in order to make it work. The three most important attributes to be an effective part of the string are; a good physical profile, IQ/anticipation, and effort. Throughout the season Fultz has shown all of those traits and the ability to put himself on the line defensively while still leading an offense desperate for his production.

With that being said, making the transition to the NBA is hard for any rookie regardless of their defensive potential. Fultz is going to have his bad days like Jaylen Brown where a confident veteran knows how to get to his spots and has his way with an inexperienced player. However, similar to Brown, Fultz has shown enough to make one believe that he’ll be able to improve as the year progresses and should begin to show the ability to hold his own.

It’s easy to hear the James Harden comparisons and instantly attach the woeful defensive reputation, but the urge should be denied. Fultz was a star in a barrel of crabs that skewed how many people have interpret his game on the defensive end of the floor. When the team is bad defensively, it’s easy to put your hands up and just stop trying, and honestly, Fultz had every reason to do just that. However, he instead decided to continue to work on that end, continued to make plays, and showed that at his peak, he could even be a guy we consider a two-way star.

But as for now all you really need to remember is this; Fultz brings it on both ends of the court, and anyone who tells you different isn’t paying attention.



bob
MY NOTE:  Was Steph Curry drafted because he was projected to become an elite defender?  Klay Thompson is a 6'7" guard, but was he drafted for his size on defense?  This author makes an excellent point, defenses are like players on a string.  They should move together, rotate quickly.  This is a big difference from the '80s and before.  Then, offensive players were funneled towards the rim protector, who awaited them.  Now that everybody can hit 3s, and zone defense violations are still called by refs so you can't just fall off your man and cheat heavily towards the middle, the way defenses work together is very different.  Swiftness of foot and of rotation is more valuable than swatting.  The top teams in the league do not have elite rim protectors today.  It doesn't hurt to have one that is highly mobile and can rotate to the point of penetration quickly, to throw a wrinkle at the other team (Mickey?) but as a defensive anchor? Did one team with an elite rim protector get past the 1st round this year?


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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by NYCelt on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:14 am

bobheckler wrote:So, a non-professional scout says that Fultz isn't as good as D'Angelo Russell.  Russell sucks.  We'll see.  Almost everybody else seems to disagree.

Doesn't say much about Ben Simmons that he's falling further and further out of 1st place with each successive draft.  Him missing an entire season and summer league this year too has got to be worrisome.  The Philly drafting philosophy was "get the talent, be patient through their injuries".  That's what they did/are doing with Embiid, that's what they did with Noel (and then traded him), that's what they are doing with Okafor (50 and 53 games in his first 2 seasons).

Danny Ainge was asked how Markelle Fultz's workout went and Danny deadpanned "he did great against a chair".  Apparently there weren't any games vs live players included.


bob


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Bob,

Yeah, that's the trend now.  Top draft prospects like to have solo workouts.  Those expected to be early lottery picks usually don't have a workout against another competitive human.  Maybe an assistant coach plays some matador D, maybe just air, and that's it.  Kind of like a job interview where you don't want to talk about how you might do the job.  I guess they figure these kids are so highly scouted it doesn't matter.  Still, if I'm an owner, for the few million it's going to cost me, I would at least like to see a contested layup or something.

Regards
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by tjmakz on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:24 am

Why do we put so much emphasis on peoples feelings about players?
Why are anybody's tweets, internet postings or personal thoughts relevant?
It all comes down to what feelings we derive from watching a player in real games.
To me, it's all about the eye test.
Some players wow me and I can see them being successful players, others I'm not impressed with.
I put a lot of emphasis on energy, fire and determination.
Shooting and ball handling can get better over time, especially for 19 year olds.

There are some who feel Fultz will be a highly skilled combo guard who could score 20ppg in the NBA.
Others feel he lacks fire and drive and scored a lot when his dreadful team fell behind in games.
None of the internet comments from so called experts or non experts matters.
Boston will make the right decision for their team.
I do think Fultz will go #1 but it's no lock as the #1 pick has been many times in the past.
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:27 am

NYCelt wrote:
bobheckler wrote:So, a non-professional scout says that Fultz isn't as good as D'Angelo Russell.  Russell sucks.  We'll see.  Almost everybody else seems to disagree.

Doesn't say much about Ben Simmons that he's falling further and further out of 1st place with each successive draft.  Him missing an entire season and summer league this year too has got to be worrisome.  The Philly drafting philosophy was "get the talent, be patient through their injuries".  That's what they did/are doing with Embiid, that's what they did with Noel (and then traded him), that's what they are doing with Okafor (50 and 53 games in his first 2 seasons).

Danny Ainge was asked how Markelle Fultz's workout went and Danny deadpanned "he did great against a chair".  Apparently there weren't any games vs live players included.


bob


.

Bob,

Yeah, that's the trend now.  Top draft prospects like to have solo workouts.  Those expected to be early lottery picks usually don't have a workout against another competitive human.  Maybe an assistant coach plays some matador D, maybe just air, and that's it.  Kind of like a job interview where you don't want to talk about how you might do the job.  I guess they figure these kids are so highly scouted it doesn't matter.  Still, if I'm an owner, for the few million it's going to cost me, I would at least like to see a contested layup or something.

Regards


NYCelt,

It's not like they're asking them to prove they can finish through contact or anything.


bob


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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by mulcogiseng on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:31 am

IMO, the secret for future NBA success is that you have to have the personnel to be able to play all types of game, depending on the matchups. With the direction the NBA is going, it didn't make too much sense for Danny to draft Zizic. He is not the modern big, he is the throwback. But Danny knows that Ante will punish people down low, get those elusive boards, and score at a good rate. The elite teams of the future will be able to play any way they want and must to win. Versatility is the key in the modern NBA. That is the kind of roster Danny is building.
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:08 am

mulcogiseng wrote:IMO, the secret for future NBA success is that you have to have the personnel to be able to play all types of game, depending on the matchups. With the direction the NBA is going, it didn't make too much sense for Danny to draft Zizic. He is not the modern big, he is the throwback. But Danny knows that Ante will punish people down low, get those elusive boards, and score at a good rate. The elite teams of the future will be able to play any way they want and must to win. Versatility is the key in the modern NBA. That is the kind of roster Danny is building.


mulcogi,

Versatility is a trait that Brad values highly. In that you are absolutely correct about Zizic, he is a one-position player. He appears, at the tender age of only 20, to be a high-end Zaza Pachulia, with better offensive moves in the paint, and cheaper (not than this year, where became a Ring Wraith and went to GSW for the veteran's minimum, but usually he would be more expensive than Zizic).


bob


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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:54 pm

bob,
Did you see the latest rumor about Fultz?

BOS makes two trades - trades #1 to PHI for Saric, Holmes, next years lakers pick and a future pick.

THEN, he trades the #3 pick to SAC for #5 and #10. He takes Jackson at 5 and Smith at 10.


WOW.
Just take Fultz and be done with it.
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by gyso on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:02 pm

red16russ11 wrote:bob,
Did you see the latest rumor about Fultz?

BOS makes two trades - trades #1 to PHI for Saric, Holmes, next years lakers pick and a future pick.

THEN, he trades the #3 pick to SAC for #5 and #10.  He takes Jackson at 5 and Smith at 10.


WOW.
Just take Fultz and be done with it.

Where does the #3 pick come from?

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by Rmbone on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:05 pm

bobheckler wrote:So, a non-professional scout says that Fultz isn't as good as D'Angelo Russell.  Russell sucks.  We'll see.  Almost everybody else seems to disagree.

Doesn't say much about Ben Simmons that he's falling further and further out of 1st place with each successive draft.  Him missing an entire season and summer league this year too has got to be worrisome.  The Philly drafting philosophy was "get the talent, be patient through their injuries".  That's what they did/are doing with Embiid, that's what they did with Noel (and then traded him), that's what they are doing with Okafor (50 and 53 games in his first 2 seasons).

Danny Ainge was asked how Markelle Fultz's workout went and Danny deadpanned "he did great against a chair".  Apparently there weren't any games vs live players included.


bob


.

Any notion that Fultz is a clutch scorer is pure speculation. Fultz rarely ever got hot shooting the ball until his team was already down 20 points.

People see that Fultz is ranked #1 and just assume that he's an amazing prospect, even convincing themselves that he'll be a good/great defender. The fact is that Fultz isn't a leader, and he doesn't appear to be a killer either. Much easier to put up points when the game is a blowout loss, and the other team takes their foot off the gas.

This time of year everybody loses their mind. Just like last year with Buddy Hield, who never would have earned big minutes last year or next year on this Celtics team. Same goes for Fultz. He's a lateral move from Avery Bradley at best, and he's way too big to defend starting NBA PGs at a less than terrible level.

And Jaylen Brown is another Celtics who is and always will be a better shooting guard than Fultz, even if Fultz shoots a couple % points better than Jaylen from 3.

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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:09 pm

gyso wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:bob,
Did you see the latest rumor about Fultz?

BOS makes two trades - trades #1 to PHI for Saric, Holmes, next years lakers pick and a future pick.

THEN, he trades the #3 pick to SAC for #5 and #10.  He takes Jackson at 5 and Smith at 10.


WOW.
Just take Fultz and be done with it.

Where does the #3 pick come from?

PHI gives us #3, Saric, Holmes and lakers pick next year. He then trades #3 to SAC (which is already a rumor) for 5 and 10.
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Re: The Markelle Fultz Thread

Post by Rmbone on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:13 pm

red16russ11 wrote:bob,
Did you see the latest rumor about Fultz?

BOS makes two trades - trades #1 to PHI for Saric, Holmes, next years lakers pick and a future pick.

THEN, he trades the #3 pick to SAC for #5 and #10.  He takes Jackson at 5 and Smith at 10.


WOW.
Just take Fultz and be done with it.

Those trades would be much much much better than just drafting Fultz, but Jackson won't be there at 5 and Smith won't be there at 10. We'd probably get Smith at 5 and somebody else at 10. Getting Saric and his dirt cheap contract would mean saying good bye to Olynyk, and having room to sign Hayward.

Dennis Smith is in the exact same tier as Markelle Fultz as a point guard prospect, as far as I'm concerned. More explosive, more tough, better first step, more fearless, and better scoring around the rim. Also a better free throw shooter and not much worse as a 3 point shooter.

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