The Josh Jackson Thread

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by Rmbone on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:39 pm

This is speculation, but makes some sense. Paul George informed Pacers he's leaving next summer and signing with the Lakers.

Jake Fischer‏Verified account @JakeLFischer 1h1 hour ago

Paul George declaring his intentions all but guarantees the Lakers will select Lonzo Ball over Josh Jackson at No. 2.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by Rmbone on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:39 pm

Keith Smith‏Verified account @KeithSmithNBA 18h18 hours ago

Sources: Joshua Jackson & Celtics working to set up meeting. Boston would like to meet with Lonzo Ball, but no indications Ball has interest

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by Rmbone on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:40 pm

Legion Hoops‏ @LegionHoops Jun 16
More
Rumor: Suns are looking to acquire the No. 2 pick from Lakers, trying "extremely hard" to draft Lonzo Ball.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by steve3344 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:44 pm

fierce wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Celtics have one guy who can attack the basket off the dribble, in IT, and one in training, in Jaylen.

People say we need 3 point shooting, but we really need scoring off the dribble at the rim. We have plenty of solid 3 point shooters.

Josh Jackson is better at scoring off the dribble at the rim than Fultz, by a large margin. Jackson is the most talented shooting guard prospect in a long long time, better than Wiggins, and better than Fultz at shooting guard.

But of course, anybody who is 6'8 is not just automatically, mindlessly labeled a small forward, but they're actually always labeled a combo-forward. Shooting guard never crosses peoples' minds when thinking about a 6'8 player, unless they're a lights out 3 point shooter.

People think shooting guard and they think 3 point sniper, but many, if not most of the best shooting guards in NBA history were below average 3 point shooters.

TOP 10 SHOOTING GUARDS http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankSGs/ranking-top-10-shooting-guards-ever

1. Michael Jordan 32.7% career 3 point shooting %
2. Kobe Bryant  32.9% career 3 point shooting %
3. Jerry West
4. Dwyane Wade 28.7% career 3 point shooting %
5. Clyde Drexler 31.8% career 3 point shooting %
6. Allen Iverson  31.3% career 3 point shooting %
7. George Gervin
8. Ray Allen
9. Reggie Miller
10. Earl Monroe


Josh Jackson is very much in the mold of Jordan, Kobe, and Clyde Drexler, but he's already a much better 3 point shooter and passer than any of those guys were at the same age. And Jordan was drafted 3rd, Kobe drafted 13th, and Clyde drafted 14th.

Likewise, Paul George was drafted 10th, Giannis was drafted 15th, Jimmy Butler was drafted 30th, and Kawhi Leonard was drafted 15th.

Does anybody see a pattern? And remember, the Blazers passed on Jordan because they didn't see how he would fit with Clyde Drexler. Just like people now are wondering how Josh would fit with Jaylen and Jae.

That's not a fair statement.
Hindsight is always 20-20.

Sure it would've been better if the Blazers got Jordan instead of Sam Bowie, but the Blazers were still in the finals in 1990 and 1992.

Both Jordan and Drexler met in the finals in 1992.
So passing on Jordan didn't prevent the Blazers from going to the top.
It's just unfortunate that the Blazers couldn't win it all.
But they got there.

The mistake of the Blazers was not doing due diligence on the health of Sam Bowie.

Clyde Drexler is a future hall of famer.

Only reason why the Blazers look so stupid for passing on Jordan is because Jordan ended up being GOAT.

Unless you're going to tell me that Josh Jackson will end up being GOAT, Fultz is still the best pick for a number reasons.

We're not even sure if Josh Jackson will end up being better than Jaylen Brown.
Clyde Drexler is not a "future" Hall of Famer.  He got inducted in 2004.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by Rmbone on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:55 pm

steve3344 wrote:
fierce wrote:
Rmbone wrote:Celtics have one guy who can attack the basket off the dribble, in IT, and one in training, in Jaylen.

People say we need 3 point shooting, but we really need scoring off the dribble at the rim. We have plenty of solid 3 point shooters.

Josh Jackson is better at scoring off the dribble at the rim than Fultz, by a large margin. Jackson is the most talented shooting guard prospect in a long long time, better than Wiggins, and better than Fultz at shooting guard.

But of course, anybody who is 6'8 is not just automatically, mindlessly labeled a small forward, but they're actually always labeled a combo-forward. Shooting guard never crosses peoples' minds when thinking about a 6'8 player, unless they're a lights out 3 point shooter.

People think shooting guard and they think 3 point sniper, but many, if not most of the best shooting guards in NBA history were below average 3 point shooters.

TOP 10 SHOOTING GUARDS http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankSGs/ranking-top-10-shooting-guards-ever

1. Michael Jordan 32.7% career 3 point shooting %
2. Kobe Bryant  32.9% career 3 point shooting %
3. Jerry West
4. Dwyane Wade 28.7% career 3 point shooting %
5. Clyde Drexler 31.8% career 3 point shooting %
6. Allen Iverson  31.3% career 3 point shooting %
7. George Gervin
8. Ray Allen
9. Reggie Miller
10. Earl Monroe


Josh Jackson is very much in the mold of Jordan, Kobe, and Clyde Drexler, but he's already a much better 3 point shooter and passer than any of those guys were at the same age. And Jordan was drafted 3rd, Kobe drafted 13th, and Clyde drafted 14th.

Likewise, Paul George was drafted 10th, Giannis was drafted 15th, Jimmy Butler was drafted 30th, and Kawhi Leonard was drafted 15th.

Does anybody see a pattern? And remember, the Blazers passed on Jordan because they didn't see how he would fit with Clyde Drexler. Just like people now are wondering how Josh would fit with Jaylen and Jae.

That's not a fair statement.
Hindsight is always 20-20.

Sure it would've been better if the Blazers got Jordan instead of Sam Bowie, but the Blazers were still in the finals in 1990 and 1992.

Both Jordan and Drexler met in the finals in 1992.
So passing on Jordan didn't prevent the Blazers from going to the top.
It's just unfortunate that the Blazers couldn't win it all.
But they got there.

The mistake of the Blazers was not doing due diligence on the health of Sam Bowie.

Clyde Drexler is a future hall of famer.

Only reason why the Blazers look so stupid for passing on Jordan is because Jordan ended up being GOAT.

Unless you're going to tell me that Josh Jackson will end up being GOAT, Fultz is still the best pick for a number reasons.

We're not even sure if Josh Jackson will end up being better than Jaylen Brown.
Clyde Drexler is not a "future" Hall of Famer.  He got inducted in 2004.

Josh Jackson being Clyde Drexler (not literally, I know they're two different people) is a future hall of famer.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by worcester on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:35 am

I don't like the prospect of trading our #3, next year's Philly pick, Avery and Jae for Butler. Not at all. Not one bit. If we get Josh Jackson, keep him and next year's 2-5 pick. Have some patience. Sign a big FA this year at PF. Don't sell off the future to be very good. Have patience and become great.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:47 am

There's no picking Josh Jackson.

Ainge didn't downgrade and pass up on the best player of the draft just to settle for Josh Jackson.

I think if the Cavs and Pacers will do a Paul George trade, Celts will be involved.

Celtics get Kevin Love

Pacers get the #3 pick

Cavs get Paul George

Other pieces would be involved but that's basically the focal point of the trade proposal.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:49 am

Right now and until Thursday night's draft, Ainge has lots of options.
From Paul George to Jimmy Butler to Kevin Love to others we don't know about, right now anything's possible.

Ainge is not stupid enough to to have 4 SFs who are starters or who can start for the Celts next season.

Doesn't make sense to draft Jackson and give Hayward 30m per year when the Celts already have Crowder and Jaylen Brown.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by worcester on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:51 am

Underwhelming. So we strengthen our biggest EC rival for a good, not a great player in return who is on a short term contract at that?
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by worcester on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:54 am


"Doesn't make sense to draft Jackson and give Hayward 30m per year when the Celts already have Crowder and Jaylen Brown."

But who says we get Hayward and keep Jae long term? Who's to say Jalen and Josh don't play some 2 this year? Who's to say we don't get Blake?

Danny is to say. That's who.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:56 am

worcester wrote:Underwhelming. So we strengthen our biggest EC rival for a good, not a great player in return who is on a short term contract at that?

It may strengthen the Cavs for 1 year, but down the road the Celts will be better.

So what if the Celts don't make it to the finals next year?

Right now what's important is the Celts dominating the east for the next 10-15 years.

What happens to the Cavs if the Cavs still lose to the Warriors in the finals next year and Paul George signs with the Lakers.

The bigger picture here is the Celts need a star player.

Kevin Love is not only a star player, he's also a great rebounder.
Rebounding is something the Celts desperately need.
Acquiring Love is like hitting 2 birds with 1 stone.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:00 am

worcester wrote:
"Doesn't make sense to draft Jackson and give Hayward 30m per year when the Celts already have Crowder and Jaylen Brown."

But who says we get Hayward and keep Jae long term? Who's to say Jalen and Josh don't play some 2 this year? Who's to say we don't get Blake?

Danny is to say. That's who.

The problem with that is nobody's sure if Jaylen and Josh can play SG full-time.

Let's say the Celts draft Josh Jackson then sign Blake Griffin, is that better than having Love and Hayward?

Right now Hayward and Love are proven All-Stars.

Why would you gamble on a guy like Josh Jackson?

IT and Horford and not getting any younger.

Trading Fultz means Ainge is in a "win now" mode.

Celts were fine if they just held on to the pick and drafted Fultz #1.
The moment Ainge traded that pick, it signaled that the Celts are not going to wait 2-3 years to become contenders.

Adding Love and Hayward with IT and Horford means the Celts have 4 star players.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:30 am

Ainge can now go after 2 star players this off-season.

Here:
Brian Robb: Math now can work for a C’s George trade and Hayward signing. Can’t overlook how big of a luxury tax bill would be in 2018+ w/ IT + Horford. 3 hours ago – via Twitter CelticsHub
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by steve3344 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:37 am

fierce wrote:There's no picking Josh Jackson.

Ainge didn't downgrade and pass up on the best player of the draft just to settle for Josh Jackson.

I think if the Cavs and Pacers will do a Paul George trade, Celts will be involved.

Celtics get Kevin Love

Pacers get the #3 pick

Cavs get Paul George

Other pieces would be involved but that's basically the focal point of the trade proposal.
Cavs get Paul George?  Lebron is a small forward.  Paul George is a small forward.  Which one changes positions and what position does that player play?

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:43 am

steve3344 wrote:
fierce wrote:There's no picking Josh Jackson.

Ainge didn't downgrade and pass up on the best player of the draft just to settle for Josh Jackson.

I think if the Cavs and Pacers will do a Paul George trade, Celts will be involved.

Celtics get Kevin Love

Pacers get the #3 pick

Cavs get Paul George

Other pieces would be involved but that's basically the focal point of the trade proposal.
Cavs get Paul George?  Lebron is a small forward.  Paul George is a small forward.  Which one changes positions and what position does that player play?

Lebron becomes the 4 and George the 3.

Not a big deal since both players are versatile.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by steve3344 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:20 am

fierce wrote:
steve3344 wrote:
fierce wrote:There's no picking Josh Jackson.

Ainge didn't downgrade and pass up on the best player of the draft just to settle for Josh Jackson.

I think if the Cavs and Pacers will do a Paul George trade, Celts will be involved.

Celtics get Kevin Love

Pacers get the #3 pick

Cavs get Paul George

Other pieces would be involved but that's basically the focal point of the trade proposal.
Cavs get Paul George?  Lebron is a small forward.  Paul George is a small forward.  Which one changes positions and what position does that player play?

Lebron becomes the 4 and George the 3.

Not a big deal since both players are versatile.
This late in his career I wouldn't think Lebron would be too thrilled to switch to power forward.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by fierce on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:36 am

Steve Kyler ✔ @stevekylerNBA
No, unless they meet with him and clear his medical. I don't think Jackson is the guy for either. I think its Tatum for Boston.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by gyso on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:37 am

steve3344 wrote:
fierce wrote:
steve3344 wrote:
fierce wrote:There's no picking Josh Jackson.

Ainge didn't downgrade and pass up on the best player of the draft just to settle for Josh Jackson.

I think if the Cavs and Pacers will do a Paul George trade, Celts will be involved.

Celtics get Kevin Love

Pacers get the #3 pick

Cavs get Paul George

Other pieces would be involved but that's basically the focal point of the trade proposal.
Cavs get Paul George?  Lebron is a small forward.  Paul George is a small forward.  Which one changes positions and what position does that player play?

Lebron becomes the 4 and George the 3.

Not a big deal since both players are versatile.
This late in his career I wouldn't think Lebron would be too thrilled to switch to power forward.

I agree.  On defense, the continual pounding and "incidental" contact over a 100+ game season will wear on him.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by kdp59 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:43 am

I think George ends up in Cleveland with Love going to Indiana.

I doubt the Celtics get invlolved in that deal, but I think Fierce's idea could work cap wize. Danny would have to renounce Jerebko, Amir and probably Kelly to get enough salary room to add Love.

I have never been sold on Love as an elite star myself though.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by gyso on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:44 am

fierce wrote:Steve Kyler ✔ @stevekylerNBA
No, unless they meet with him and clear his medical. I don't think Jackson is the guy for either. I think its Tatum for Boston.

Yes, no matter who the Lakers take, Ball or Jackson, Tatum will be there if Danny's plan is just to take the pick. If the plan is just to trade the pick, it no longer matters who is available at pick #3.

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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by worcester on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:11 am

Love has 3 years left on his contract. Blake would have 4 if we signed him. Blake would get more $$. Kevin gets $22M a year. Kevin is a better player. I'm starting to see the sense of a Love, Hayward, Brown/Bradley, IT, Horford starting lineup, but is it good enough to win #18+?
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by NYCelt on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:14 am

fierce wrote:Steve Kyler ✔ @stevekylerNBA
No, unless they meet with him and clear his medical. I don't think Jackson is the guy for either. I think its Tatum for Boston.

Yes, absolutely; Tatum should be the guy. Especially since there is a good chance Hayward is back in Utah.

As always in this surprise-of-the-day time of year with Ainge & Co., we'll see.
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:19 am

ESPN LA, who hates the Celtics, btw, said today that Mrs. Hayward does not like living in Salt Lake City.............

Not that that means anything...............
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:20 am

They (ESPN LA) are also VERY worried that Anthony Davis, "can be had" with the right offer...............and BOS could trade "all their assets" to get this guy...............
That would be nice
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Re: The Josh Jackson Thread

Post by NYCelt on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:40 am

red,

The proper amount of money can make any city prettier!

I haven't read anything recent about Hayward's thoughts, but last I remember I think he wanted to stay there.  Can't say for sure.  I have seen various reports expecting him to stay, but you know how that goes.  Still, I think you have to draft as if he's not coming.

Regards
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