The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

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The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:07 am

http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/6/15745388/boston-celtics-roster-review-the-curious-case-of-jae-crowder




Is Jae Crowder part of the Celtics long-term plans or could he be on the move this summer?


by Tim MacLean  


Jun 6, 2017, 9:00am EDT




Ken Blaze-USA TODAY Sports




With so much uncertainty surrounding the Celtics roster entering the offseason it’s hard to say exactly what Jae Crowder’s future with the team might be. As of right now the 26-year-old has three years remaining on the five-year, $35 million deal he signed in July of 2015, so losing him to the free agent market isn’t the issue. But Boston will have no shortage of trade options this summer and its entirely possible Crowder could be a key piece going out in any potential deals.

That being said, Crowder has sort of been a non-starter in trade talks in the past. David Aldridge of NBA.com reported in February that Danny Ainge did “not want to give up Jae Crowder” in any package that would bring Jimmy Butler to Boston.

“I think it really comes down to Crowder,” Aldridge said. “In terms of real, tangible players, I think Danny would like to go into the playoffs with (Marcus) Smart, (Avery) Bradley (and) Crowder defensively along with Butler, (Al) Horford (and Isaiah) Thomas offensively. I think he feels like that’s the only way they’re going to compete, or be able to compete, with a team like Cleveland. And Chicago, I think rightly, is saying, ‘Look, if you want our best player we’re not going to just do it for picks. We’re not going to just take guys that you’re not going to keep on your roster. We want a guy that’s going to be able to grow with us along with one of those high picks.’”

Hanging on to Crowder would seem to go against the Celtics’ vision of acquiring stars. Butler has slowly developed into a perennial All-Star over the last three years and is clearly the better player between himself and his former Marquette teammate.

Boston has eyes for Gordon Hayward on the free agent market this summer, though, and it’ll have just as good a chance as any to lure him away from the Utah Jazz. While it would be nice to have both Hayward and Butler, hanging on to Crowder prevents the Celtics from having to do cap gymnastics in order to make that happen, not to mention the fact it would most likely force the team to gut their bench, sacrificing depth all the while.

Signing Hayward and keeping Crowder would give the Celtics a wide range of options. The two could co-exist in the starting lineup, with Hayward at the 3 and Crowder at either the 2 or 4 depending on what happens with Avery Bradley and Amir Johnson. Brad Stevens could also decide to move Crowder to the bench in favor of Hayward, using the former in a sixth or seventh man role a la James Posey on the 2008 title team.

Posey provided the Celtics with lockdown defense on the perimeter and shot an above-average clip from beyond the arc during both the regular season and the playoffs that year—38 and 39.8%, respectively. His versatility allowed him to guard anyone from Josh Smith to LeBron James, and Rip Hamilton to Kobe Bryant during that postseason run, and Crowder has shown he’s capable of proving some of the same.

What’s unique about Crowder’s situation is his trade value isn’t going anywhere over the next couple of months. If the Celtics aren’t able to get Hayward they’ll still be able to revisit talks for Butler and maybe even the Indiana Pacers’ Paul George, depending on whether or not he commits to the Celtics long-term. And they can still do all that while making the No. 1 overall pick come June, considering they have a war chest of other picks they can attach in a Crowder trade.

Either way, it’ll be interesting to see what Boston does with Crowder. It’s clear they value him immensely and he’s been an important part of what the Celtics have been building over the past couple of years. The later summer months can’t come soon enough.




bob


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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:47 am

Trade Crowder for a better player.

Or, start Brown and have Crowder come off the bench.

If I see him shoot one more transition 3 while the other team is on an 8-0 run, I'm going to need a new TV.

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:29 am

I am not sure what long term means. Crowder is under a cap friendly contract until the end of the 2019-2020 season. ($6.8, $7.3 and $7.8 million per year)

Danny Ainge used the 3rd pick in the draft last year to draft Jaylen Brown. Jaylen is the heir apparent to the starting small forward position.

The inference presented continues the Trade for Butler, sign Hayward idea. There is no need to consider either one of them given what we already have at SF and what it would cost to go in a different direction.

I do expect that at some point Crowder could be traded but it is unlikely to be for a SF. Jaylen is coming off his rookie year. He has a significant upside and due to his maturity and basketball IQ he may be ready to start beginning his 3rd year.

It would be ill advised for Danny to move Crowder or go after another SF this year.

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:01 am

dboss wrote:I am not sure what long term means. Crowder is under a cap friendly contract until the end of the 2019-2020 season. ($6.8, $7.3 and $7.8 million per year)

Danny Ainge used the 3rd pick in the draft last year to draft Jaylen Brown. Jaylen is the heir apparent to the starting small forward position.

The inference presented continues the Trade for Butler, sign Hayward idea. There is no need to consider either one of them given what we already have at SF and what it would cost to go in a different direction.

I do expect that at some point Crowder could be traded but it is unlikely to be for a SF. Jaylen is coming off his rookie year. He has a significant upside and due to his maturity and basketball IQ he may be ready to start beginning his 3rd year.

It would be ill advised for Danny to move Crowder or go after another SF this year.

dboss

Not really sure how you're building our team for next year. You want to let Kelly walk for nothing, and offer no ideas for replacements, then you say you'd rather have Crowder than Butler or Hayward??
Bulter is a SG, IMO.
We are going nowhere with Crowder as our starting SF
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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:36 am

red16russ11 wrote:
dboss wrote:I am not sure what long term means.  Crowder is under a cap friendly contract until the end of the 2019-2020 season.  ($6.8, $7.3 and $7.8 million per year)

Danny Ainge used the 3rd pick in the draft last year to draft Jaylen Brown.  Jaylen is the heir apparent to the starting small forward position.  

The inference presented continues the Trade for Butler, sign Hayward idea.  There is no need to consider either one of them given what we already have at SF and what it would cost to go in a different direction.

I do expect that at some point Crowder could be traded but it is unlikely to be for a SF.  Jaylen is coming off his rookie year.  He has a significant upside and due to his maturity and basketball IQ he may be ready to start beginning his 3rd year.

It would be ill advised for Danny to move Crowder or go after another SF this year.  

dboss



Not really sure how you're building our team for next year.  You want to let Kelly walk for nothing, and offer no ideas for replacements, then you say you'd rather have Crowder than Butler or Hayward??
Bulter is a SG, IMO.
We are going nowhere with Crowder as our starting SF

That is not what I said.  Hayward and Butler are upgrades over Crowder.  The sticking point for me is that we used #3 pick for Jaylen Brown, a SF
Therefore any discussions about Hayward or Butler are moot.  If free agent money is going to be spent or if we are going to make a trade it would not involve a need at SF.  Last year we went to the ECF with Crowder as our starting SF who by the way also swings up to PF.  I think Jaylen is a hit not a miss and is our future at SF that is coming along fast.

I thought I made it clear that being able to keep Kelly for another year would be good but not if it cost too much $$$$.  My view is that the Celtics should not match a generous offer.  The reason why I do not think they should match a generous offer is because I do not think KO is that good and I do not see where he has earned a big time raise.  His numbers over the past 4 years speak for themselves.  He is still stuck on less than half a tank.

If that means that he walks then I wish him all the best.  

As far as building the team, I would draft Fultz who is an elite level two position player.  I would bring both Zizic and Yabu in.  I would use pick #37 to draft a big like Swanigan, Motley, Bryant or Cameron Oliver.  I would make a run at Serge Ibaka,  who would be an excellent fit at PF/C.  Then I would use the 2018 Nets pick to trade for a big or use it next year to draft one given the projected talent at the 4/5.

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:43 am

dboss wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:
dboss wrote:I am not sure what long term means.  Crowder is under a cap friendly contract until the end of the 2019-2020 season.  ($6.8, $7.3 and $7.8 million per year)

Danny Ainge used the 3rd pick in the draft last year to draft Jaylen Brown.  Jaylen is the heir apparent to the starting small forward position.  

The inference presented continues the Trade for Butler, sign Hayward idea.  There is no need to consider either one of them given what we already have at SF and what it would cost to go in a different direction.

I do expect that at some point Crowder could be traded but it is unlikely to be for a SF.  Jaylen is coming off his rookie year.  He has a significant upside and due to his maturity and basketball IQ he may be ready to start beginning his 3rd year.

It would be ill advised for Danny to move Crowder or go after another SF this year.  

dboss



Not really sure how you're building our team for next year.  You want to let Kelly walk for nothing, and offer no ideas for replacements, then you say you'd rather have Crowder than Butler or Hayward??
Bulter is a SG, IMO.
We are going nowhere with Crowder as our starting SF

That is not what I said.  Hayward and Butler are upgrades over Crowder.  The sticking point for me is that we used #3 pick for Jaylen Brown, a SF
Therefore any discussions about Hayward or Butler are moot.  If free agent money is going to be spent or if we are going to make a trade it would not involve a need at SF.  Last year we went to the ECF with Crowder as our starting SF who by the way also swings up to PF.  I think Jaylen is a hit not a miss and is our future at SF that is coming along fast.

I thought I made it clear that being able to keep Kelly for another year would be good but not if it cost too much $$$$.  My view is that the Celtics should not match a generous offer.  The reason why I do not think they should match a generous offer is because I do not think KO is that good and I do not see where he has earned a big time raise.  His numbers over the past 4 years speak for themselves.  He is still stuck on less than half a tank.

If that means that he walks then I wish him all the best.  

As far as building the team, I would draft Fultz who is an elite level two position player.  I would bring both Zizic and Yabu in.  I would use pick #37 to draft a big like Swanigan, Motley, Bryant or Cameron Oliver.  I would make a run at Serge Ibaka,  who would be an excellent fit at PF/C.  Then I would use the 2018 Nets pick to trade for a big or use it next year to draft one given the projected talent at the 4/5.

dboss

Got it
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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by mulcogiseng on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:52 am

Anybody else wondering why all the talk involves FA or trades for a wing? It's all Butler or Hayward or George. Is this another misdirection campaign from Danny to disguise his real intentions? Upgrades are nice but the team has real needs that haven't been addressed. I know Bob thinks Danny never tells the truth, reveals his hand, but the media is going bonkers and I doubt if there is any real truth in any of it. We are going to have a very good team next year, a team that will win more games and advance further in the playoffs then this edition. Can't wait for the first glimpse of Zizic, Nader and Fultz this summer.
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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:57 am

mulcogiseng wrote:Anybody else wondering why all the talk involves FA or trades for a wing? It's all Butler or Hayward or George. Is this another misdirection campaign from Danny to disguise his real intentions? Upgrades are nice but the team has real needs that haven't been addressed. I know Bob thinks Danny never tells the truth, reveals his hand, but the media is going bonkers and I doubt if there is any real truth in any of it. We are going to have a very good team next year, a team that will win more games and advance further in the playoffs then this edition. Can't wait for the first glimpse of Zizic, Nader and Fultz this summer.

It's not his job to tell the truth, and it's not our business to know.

At an FSU game, with a bunch of NBA scouts in attendance one year, watching David W. Cowens, Red Auerbach got up after about 10 minutes and announced, "I don't know what you guys are all doing here, there's no talent out there.........."

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by dboss on Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:15 am

mulcogiseng wrote:Anybody else wondering why all the talk involves FA or trades for a wing? It's all Butler or Hayward or George. Is this another misdirection campaign from Danny to disguise his real intentions? Upgrades are nice but the team has real needs that haven't been addressed. I know Bob thinks Danny never tells the truth, reveals his hand, but the media is going bonkers and I doubt if there is any real truth in any of it. We are going to have a very good team next year, a team that will win more games and advance further in the playoffs then this edition. Can't wait for the first glimpse of Zizic, Nader and Fultz this summer.

mulcogiseng

The media is fueling trade speculation. But I have not seen a single trade scenario that that I like.

I'm with you on this 100%.

53 wins and an appearance in the ECF and about to draft at the top.

I really do not think a lot of fans fully appreciate the level of talent that Fultz brings to the table. I cannot wait to see Zizic and Yabu get in the mix and it is highly likely that Nadir will be on the active roster as well.

Then next year we get a chance to potentially have a shot at an elite big.

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:30 am

dboss wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:Anybody else wondering why all the talk involves FA or trades for a wing? It's all Butler or Hayward or George. Is this another misdirection campaign from Danny to disguise his real intentions? Upgrades are nice but the team has real needs that haven't been addressed. I know Bob thinks Danny never tells the truth, reveals his hand, but the media is going bonkers and I doubt if there is any real truth in any of it. We are going to have a very good team next year, a team that will win more games and advance further in the playoffs then this edition. Can't wait for the first glimpse of Zizic, Nader and Fultz this summer.

mulcogiseng

The media is fueling trade speculation. But I have not seen a single trade scenario that that I like.

I'm with you on this 100%.

53 wins and an appearance in the ECF and about to draft at the top.

I really do not think a lot of fans fully appreciate the level of talent that Fultz brings to the table. I cannot wait to see Zizic and Yabu get in the mix and it is highly likely that Nadir will be on the active roster as well.

Then next year we get a chance to potentially have a shot at an elite big.

dboss

I appreciate all the talent that Fultz can bring. He does not solve our rebounding and rim protection issues, however. Losing Amir, Jerebko, KO (according to you), Mickey, Green and Zeller (most likely) and adding Fultz, Yabba, Zizic and Nader does not make us appreciably better, IMO.
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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by mulcogiseng on Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:56 am

That's the big question at the moment. Will all of these new additions make us "appreciably better" . I think they will. I think they are a clear upgrade over who will be leaving. We need a rim protecting big: Zizic. We need someone who can rebound and get their own shot in a multiple of ways: Yabusele and Nader. We need more athleticism: Fultz fills multiple needs including this one. Yes, they are young but Zizic and Yabusele have been playing pro ball for a few years so the transition won't be as hard on them. On paper, they are much better talent wise and better suited for the style of play as well. But they still might not make that big a contribution the first year. but again, they may very well...beats the alternative.
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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:26 am

Jae's contract, along with AB's and IT's, is one of the best values in the NBA. Unless something pretty special comes back, I say keep him until JB matures. Could JB have a better mentor?

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:14 pm

I would expect that Bradley would be the more likely player to be moved but that's with the idea of creating enough space for a max contract for Hayward or Griffin. Crowder is valuable as a rotation player whether he's a starter or reserve. If another team is willing to overpay or he can be the centerpiece of a trade for a better player then I could see him moving instead.

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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by fierce on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:20 pm

Only way Celts keep Crowder is if Ainge fails to get one of the 3, George, Hayward, or Gallinari.

If Ainge strikes out on all 3, having Crowder is a must.
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Re: The Curious Case of Jae Crowder

Post by worcester on Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:16 am

In which universe is Crowder playing as a 2?
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