Don't Forget The 2nd Round

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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by kdp59 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:52 pm

dboss wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:How in the name of conviviality do I express my shock and incredulity at the notion that last year's 16th and 23rd pick may not be good enough to make the roster and certainly not the rotation this year, but that this years 37th pick will?

mmm mebbe there is no way. never mind bounce

I for one believe that both Zizic and Yabu will be on the roster.  Consider that 3 of our bigs may very well not return next year (Amir, Tyler and Jonas)

The 37th pick is a long shot but given the depth in the 2nd round there is probably  a 1st rounder in waiting.  Boston has 3 first rounders and could move up to the top of the 2nd round or maybe even flip those picks for a future # 1.  

dboss

exactly......Amir, Zeller and Jerebko's holds/salary's will be needed IF Danny signs a high dollar FA.

Don't forget Mickey, his salary is non guaranteed and we may be able to upgrade with #37 pick.

also IF Dannys signs a new big man, there is a chance Kelly is gone as well, IMO.

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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by bobheckler on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:00 pm

dboss wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:How in the name of conviviality do I express my shock and incredulity at the notion that last year's 16th and 23rd pick may not be good enough to make the roster and certainly not the rotation this year, but that this years 37th pick will?

mmm mebbe there is no way. never mind bounce

I for one believe that both Zizic and Yabu will be on the roster.  Consider that 3 of our bigs may very well not return next year (Amir, Tyler and Jonas)

The 37th pick is a long shot but given the depth in the 2nd round there is probably  a 1st rounder in waiting.  Boston has 3 first rounders and could move up to the top of the 2nd round or maybe even flip those picks for a future # 1.  

dboss


dboss,

I agree with most of this, I am not quite as sanguine as you inre Yabby making the roster.  It boils down to his defense.  He didn't have to play any last year.  Why any GM who wants an offensive player to work on their defense would send them to play in the Chinese League is beyond me.  It's an entire season of NBA All-Star game quality defense. I would think the exact opposite way. If they are a good defender but you'd like them to work on their offense, then send them to China where the defensive resistance will be ephemeral at best. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Defense.


bob


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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by mulcogiseng on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:04 pm

bob, u know I'm not a stats kind of guy but...Guerschon averaged 1.4 steals a game and 1.1 blocks to go along with his 20.9 points and 9.4 boards a game. He shot 52.7% on 2s and 36.4 from 3. Please don't say he didn't play "any" defense. He did, and those aren't bad numbers for any league. Remember, if you cut back on some of the pessimism, your surprise and happiness will be all the greater. Smile OTOH, if you are more right, at least we can take solace in good offense beats good defense in today's NBA. Smile
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by red16russ11 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:27 pm

I don't think Yabba making the team will have anything to do with his defense. It will have to do with a roster spot. If there is one available, then he will play. Let's also not forget that we have two way contracts available now, and I believe we can keep 17 (?), which would mean he could spend time in ME and with the main team as well
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by bobheckler on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:35 pm

red16russ11 wrote:I don't think Yabba making the team will have anything to do with his defense.  It will have to do with a roster spot.  If there is one available, then he will play.  Let's also not forget that we have two way contracts available now, and I believe we can keep 17 (?), which would mean he could spend time in ME and with the main team as well


Red,

What do you mean by "two way contracts"?



bob


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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by red16russ11 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:42 pm

bobheckler wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:I don't think Yabba making the team will have anything to do with his defense.  It will have to do with a roster spot.  If there is one available, then he will play.  Let's also not forget that we have two way contracts available now, and I believe we can keep 17 (?), which would mean he could spend time in ME and with the main team as well


Red,

What do you mean by "two way contracts"?



bob


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bob - I think this year we can expand the roster to 17. I also "think" that we can have players who are eligible to play in both the D-League and the NBA, depending upon need. I will look further to try to explain it better. Not 100% sure
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by red16russ11 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:45 pm

Found this:
The introduction of two-way contracts will help the D-League grow
Teams will be able to develop two players in the D-League on two-way contracts, a big step forward in the road towards setting up a true minor league, per the Vertical’s Adrian Wojnarowski. This change will increase the maximum roster size to 17.

The new rule will allow franchises to keep control of prospects they intend to develop while making sure the players get a bump in salary when they contribute to the parent team. In addition, their D-League salaries are getting a boost.

Currently, top-rated Development League players make $26,000, with the lower-tiered guys netting $19,000. But D-League salaries for players on two-way contracts are expected to more than double into the $50,000-to-$75,000 range, per ESPN’s Marc Stein, making the league more competitive with overseas salaries.
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by dboss on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:51 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:How in the name of conviviality do I express my shock and incredulity at the notion that last year's 16th and 23rd pick may not be good enough to make the roster and certainly not the rotation this year, but that this years 37th pick will?

mmm mebbe there is no way. never mind bounce

I for one believe that both Zizic and Yabu will be on the roster.  Consider that 3 of our bigs may very well not return next year (Amir, Tyler and Jonas)

The 37th pick is a long shot but given the depth in the 2nd round there is probably  a 1st rounder in waiting.  Boston has 3 first rounders and could move up to the top of the 2nd round or maybe even flip those picks for a future # 1.  

dboss


dboss,

I agree with most of this, I am not quite as sanguine as you inre Yabby making the roster.  It boils down to his defense.  He didn't have to play any last year.  Why any GM who wants an offensive player to work on their defense would send them to play in the Chinese League is beyond me.  It's an entire season of NBA All-Star game quality defense.  I would think the exact opposite way.  If they are a good defender but you'd like them to work on their offense, then send them to China where the defensive resistance will be ephemeral at best.  Crouching Tiger, Hidden Defense.


bob


.

Yabu appears to have more offensive savvy than Zizic.  If Jonas is gone we will need someone to shoot the 3 ball and also take it off the dribble to the basket.  Zizic looks more to me like a traditional low post center.  Therefore I would venture to say that Yabu is a lock,  Remember he was #16.

dboss

Correction. They are both Locks to make the team this year. Zizic knows how to execute the pick and role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwGD0yA89m4
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by NYCelt on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:27 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:How in the name of conviviality do I express my shock and incredulity at the notion that last year's 16th and 23rd pick may not be good enough to make the roster and certainly not the rotation this year, but that this years 37th pick will?

mmm mebbe there is no way. never mind bounce

Mulcogi,

Sorry to send you into shock (and incredulity!) Smile

Call it the "eye test," call it limited viewing of Yaba...however you spell it, Zizic and Nader, call it a belief that this year's draft is a high multiple of times better quality than last year.  I don't think Nader will ever make any NBA roster, I'm doubtful about the French guy I think we way, way overreached for, and I'm hopeful about Zizic, although I think a better skilled forward can be found well into this year's second round.

I've been on record here in the past saying that, after Brown, I think last year's draft was the result of legalization of pot reaching the Celtic front office (or an interesting gamble, depending on whom I'm trying to shock).

If I'm wrong, I will be wrong happily, and convivially accept any "I told you so" coming my way!

Regards
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by red16russ11 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:39 pm

NYCelt wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:How in the name of conviviality do I express my shock and incredulity at the notion that last year's 16th and 23rd pick may not be good enough to make the roster and certainly not the rotation this year, but that this years 37th pick will?

mmm mebbe there is no way. never mind bounce

Mulcogi,

Sorry to send you into shock (and incredulity!) Smile

Call it the "eye test," call it limited viewing of Yaba...however you spell it, Zizic and Nader, call it a belief that this year's draft is a high multiple of times better quality than last year.  I don't think Nader will ever make any NBA roster, I'm doubtful about the French guy I think we way, way overreached for, and I'm hopeful about Zizic, although I think a better skilled forward can be found well into this year's second round.

I've been on record here in the past saying that, after Brown, I think last year's draft was the result of legalization of pot reaching the Celtic front office (or an interesting gamble, depending on whom I'm trying to shock).

If I'm wrong, I will be wrong happily, and convivially accept any "I told you so" coming my way!

Regards

I thought this was hysterical, but let me add one more "reason".
Roster spots. I think Danny tried to combine picks, I think he tried to trade picks (he did trade one, I believe, which ended up being Deyonta Davis). We had 7 picks last year, three in the first round, and no room for them. So, he decided to draft and stash two players, at least one of whom, would be projected to be a top 10 pick this year. It's a nice spot to be in, to have that luxury, and certainly a great time to be a Celtics fan!!
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by mulcogiseng on Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:44 pm

You know, I've heard the roster spot argument before. But for me, when you have guys who can't make it on the court, they are just taking up that roster spot and not producing anything in return except for practice. I think that both Yabusele and Zizic were better last year than Mickey, Zeller, and could produce more than Amir and Jonas given what their production ended up being. Now, admittedly, that is just the way I saw it last year. I was very disappointed that two players with the skill sets we needed were not even given an opportunity to try out. So it wasn't about roster spots as it was Danny being wrong they weren't an improvement. The spots were there, Danny decided to resign other people.

You get absolutely nowhere with me, NYCelt, disparaging the noble weed! lol I've saved your post in the "I told you so" tab. lol Funny about eye tests, like beauty, they are in the eye of the beholder. When I watch the highlights of Guerschon I see a player with a skill set that we absolutely need, if it can come from someone else who is better, fine. But I don't see that person coming. The thing about gambling, the greater risk, the greater reward. If one of the three don't make the team it will be Nader. Like Bob, you and the others will be pleasantly surprised by how well Yabusele will do or perhaps I will be listening to all the I told you so's. lol

dboss: that's the way I see it. Guerschon had a better developed offense than Brown or Zizic. We need all three of them. With Fultz, they are the core of the future.
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:00 pm

I would not be the least bit surprised if we saw Danny do another Euro draft-and-stash with our 2nd rounders this year.

Between Mickey, Yabby, Demetrius Jackson and Abdel Nader we have end-of-bench candidates in every position except center. Unless we take Isaac or one of the few other quality lottery picks we're looking at the 2nd round for bigs and we don't need more wings and swings. Doing another "Ante Zizic draft-and-stash" makes a lot of sense for a team with no roster slots wide-open except for bigs and all the quality bigs in Europe being a year or two away from maturation.


bob



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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by kdp59 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:26 am

some guys here who may be there with Dannys' #37 pick.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/six-nba-draft-sleepers/

Six NBA Draft SleepersBy Dennis Chambers
onJune 16, 2017SHARE TWEET SHARE SHARE

Every year the NBA Draft signifies an opportunity for franchises around the league to bring in the next player to help shape their team.

The teams at the top of the draft are usually down on their luck — excluding the Boston Celtics this season who, performed trade wizardry in 2013 and wound up with the top pick in this June’s draft. Clubs with top-end draft picks have the chance to bring in a player that they hope turns into an eventual franchise cornerstone.

As the draft unfolds throughout the night, however, teams will often be on the search for an under the radar talent who can come in and make an impact sooner rather than later. Usually, these players will have a few years of collegiate seasoning under their belts — an attribute that, for better or for worse, keeps productive amateur players from being selected higher — and as a result can operate with more poise and effective impact for a team looking to contend past the regular season.

Last June the Milwaukee Bucks selected Malcolm Brogdon with the No. 36 pick. Despite being an accomplished player at the University of Virginia, at 23-years-old Brogdon wasn’t considered an elite draft prospect due to his age.

Regardless of concerns, Brogdon ripped off a successful rookie campaign and averaged 10.2 points and 4.2 assists through 26 minutes a game, all while shooting 40 percent from downtown.

As a result, Brogdon became an integral part of Milwaukee’s playoff run that saw them take the Toronto Raptors to a six-game series. Along with postseason success, Brogdon was also named a finalist for the Rookie of the Year award. All in all, the Bucks’ second-round selection proved to buck trends and become a diamond in the rough.

With this year’s installment of the draft quickly approaching, let’s take a look at some players who are candidates to become next season’s Brogdon.

Sindarius Thornwell

After playing four seasons at South Carolina, Thornwell established himself as a legitimate two-way player, culminating with a Final Four run during this past NCAA tournament.

During his senior campaign, Thornwell was named SEC Player of the Year and averaged 21.4 points and 7.2 rebounds per game. But the defensive end of the ball is truly where he began to stake his claim as a legitimate pro prospect. Turning in an 89.3 defensive rating and being a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of guards like Duke’s Grayson Allen and Luke Kennard in the second round of the NCAA tournament elevated Thornwell’s draft stock for this year.

Currently projected on DraftExpress to be taken 57th overall, Thornwell can be a candidate to step in right away and provide viable wing defense for a ball club. He also shot 39 percent from three-point land last season, so his shot certainly has the chance to develop into a reliable stroke from NBA-range and make him potentially one of the coveted “3-and-D” players that draw attention in today’s league.

Josh Hart

ADVERTISING

When it comes to accomplished players in college basketball, few fit the bill better than Josh Hart.

Throughout his career at Villanova, Hart racked up numerous accolades. From Sixth Man of the Year to Big East Player of the Year, to Big East Champion, to National Champion, Hart nearly did it all at the college ranks.

Next up, he’ll be looking to take his championship pedigree and poise to the next level in hopes of using his savvy play to become effective.

At 6-foot-6 with a 6-foot-8 wingspan, Hart is a legitimate off-ball guard and possesses the defensive skill to disrupt opposing wing players. Hart also demonstrated superb efficiency at the collegiate level, partly as a result of learning under one the nation’s premier coaches in Jay Wright, shooting over 50 percent for his career. His decision making should translate well to the next level.

Mocked at No. 54 on DraftExpress, Hart could be a player that is viewed in a few years as one of the draft’s best value picks if he can translate his defensive capabilities and experienced decision making to the professional level.

Jordan Bell

Jordan Bell really helped his case during this past season’s NCAA tournament, just like Thornwell.

During Oregon’s run to the Final Four, Bell averaged a double-double of 12.6 points and 13.2 rebounds per game as well as tallying three blocks per contest. The low-post prospect really displayed his motor going for rebounds and defending at a high level when the lights were shining their brightest.

A knock on Bell, however, is his size and shooting. At 6-foot-9 Bell isn’t small by any means, but his lack of outside shooting (just 3-of-16 from downtown over the course of three seasons) really pigeonholes him into a low-post role in a league that is asking their forwards to develop more of a shooting stroke at an increasing rate.

But a motor like Bell’s is a good attribute to have for a player that feeds down low. At the same rate, Bell looks to translate as the type of player who will hustle down the loose ball and fight for second chance opportunities as they arise, and those qualities usually have a place in the NBA.

ADVERTISING

Currently projected as the No. 35 pick by DraftExpress, Bell could develop himself into an impact player for a club in the second round should he extend his shooting range just a bit outside the paint.

Harry Giles

Harry Giles’ talent is hard to keep under the radar, and barring a couple of knee injuries in high school, the former top player in the 2016 recruiting class would probably be projected as a top-5 pick in this June’s draft.

But that isn’t the reality Giles will face on draft night. Instead, the freakishly athletic forward will be hoping a team in the second half of the first round takes a flier on a kid who didn’t look like his high school phenom self during his lone season at Duke.

However, should Giles’ bill of health stay clean and his game that had scouts buzzing during his high school AAU circuits return, he could wind up being the steal of the draft.

While the numbers for Giles’ freshman season are wildly underwhelming at just 3.9 points and 3.8 rebounds per game, he wasn’t given a very heavy workload as he was still mending his knee back to full strength as the season went on.

Recently, Giles proclaimed his health was “100 percent” and that he would be ready to go for next season.

Should Giles take a tumble in the first round and is snatched up by a team who isn’t looking to apply the pressure of him being a lottery selection, Giles may have the best chance to succeed in the league out of any of this year’s elite talents.

Derrick White

Derrick White finds himself in a peculiar position for an NBA draft prospect. Once a Division II player at the University of Colorado-Colorado Springs, White eventually moved on to the big leagues to play in Boulder after two standout seasons.

At 6-foot-5 White possesses the skills and size to be a combo-guard at the next level. He averaged 18.1 points per game while shooting nearly 40 percent from deep during his lone year at the University of Colorado. Along with scoring in bunches, White also dished out a team-leading 4.4 assists per game.

He checks in at 22-years-old on draft night and will turn 23 in early July. Along with his advanced age for a draft prospect, White only has one season of production at a Division I level. Despite his clear production in the PAC-12, it still is a relatively small sample size for a player that doesn’t have the benefit of being just 19 years old.

Projected as a fringe first-round pick, currently No. 33 on DraftExpress, White will look to bring some solid backcourt skills to whichever team drafts him. Should that team be at the end of round one, White should have the chance to sit on an experienced club that won’t be asking the world of him while his skills develop.

From Division II basketball all the way to the NBA, White looks poised to be a productive player at the world’s highest level of competition.

Frank Jackson

The second Duke product on the list, Frank Jackson cemented his draft status after a stellar showing at the NBA Draft Combine in Chicago back in May.

After displaying an array of scoring and decision-making skills in the five-on-five scrimmage portion of the camp, Jackson blew NBA personnel away with his 42-inch vertical leap.

Just 19-years-old, Jackson endured an up and down year at Duke that saw him average just 10.9 points per game on a roster that had a few other guards with more experience. However, he did manage to shoot 39 percent from beyond the arc. That shooting stroke coupled with his athleticism should have teams chomping at the bit to bring Jackson on board.

After a solid combine, Jackson suffered an injury to his foot that required surgery, and he isn’t expected to be back in action until July. That timeline would make Jackson questionable to participate in Summer League, a valuable learning experience for rookies.

That development, along with his lack of earth-shattering production at Duke, could cause Jackson to slip a bit in this month’s draft. DraftExpress currently has Jackson as the No. 39 pick. But, once heralded as a premier prospect in his freshman class, Jackson seems to have all the tools necessary to succeed in a league that thrives off shooting and athleticism.

With father time on Jackson’s side and the absence of pressure a 19-year-old athletic freak usually faces from the NBA Draft, the guard should have every opportunity to become a valuable player at the next level.

Make sure to follow Basketball Insiders on Twitter at @BBallInsiders.
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:04 am

I think Bell will be gone. I like Thornwell, as well as Swanigan, Bryant, Rabb and Ojeleye
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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

Post by kdp59 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:27 pm

red16russ11 wrote:I think Bell will be gone.  I like Thornwell, as well as Swanigan, Bryant, Rabb and Ojeleye

Yeah Bell and Swanigan could both go late first, as I think Rabb will.

Didn't Rabb play with Jaylen? Maybe if Danny ends up lower in the draft he could be in play, who knows at this point.

Bryant seems to be getting no buzz.... too much of an old school center?

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Re: Don't Forget The 2nd Round

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