Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

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Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:18 pm

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/chris-broussard-why-blake-griffin-could-be-the-answer-for-the-celtics-061417



Chris Broussard: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics



Nick Schwartz  @nick_schwartz  



Jun 14, 2017 at 6:38p ET

Celtics biggest threat to land Blake Griffin? | THE HERD



The Golden State Warriors rampaged through the NBA playoffs and are staggering favorites in Vegas to win back-to-back titles, but LeBron James said after Game 5 that teams will be spending the summer trying to assemble a superteam capable of challenging the champs.

While the Cavs likely will be the prohibitive favorites in the East as long as LeBron James is around, the Celtics finished the season with the best record in the conference, and are in the enviable position of having the No. 1 overall draft pick and some cap flexibility. The Celtics have long been linked to Jazz star Gordon Hayward, but Boston is also reportedly considering Blake Griffin, who can opt out of his deal with the Clippers.

On Wednesday's episode of "The Herd", Chris Broussard said we could see some big moves over the summer from Celtics boss Danny Ainge.


The Celtics may be more in win-now mode than people thought The Celtics may be more in win-now mode than people thought


Doug Gottlieb: “Markelle Fultz is working out for the Lakers tomorrow. So that means he hasn’t been guaranteed by the Celtics they’re going to take him first overall. So is this a ‘Hey, they’re wheeling and dealing’? Is it ‘Let’s go get Blake [Griffin], and let’s go get Gordon Hayward?’ Or ‘Let’s trade the 1 for more pieces?’

"It feels like they could make a huge series of moves combining free agency and the draft to go for it now."

Chris Broussard: “Look at Danny Ainge’s history. What’s he best known for? Getting Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in the same summer, and building a championship team.

"You can’t put anything past Danny Ainge. I think what we are seeing now is that they may be more in win-now mode than people thought. And again, I think they may think they’re closer to Cleveland than a lot of others do.”

Winslow Townson USA TODAY Sports
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CHRIS BROUSSARD


Boston will have to make a tough decision about Isaiah Thomas' future Boston will have to make a tough decision about Isaiah Thomas' future


“There are those that think, at some point, they need to trade Isaiah Thomas -- because next year, next summer, he’s going to want max money. And rightly so, but do you give him max money?

"Or if you can get a Blake Griffin for a year, I’d like to see how those two play together.

"Isaiah, as good as he is, if he’s your best player, there’s a ceiling on how far you’re going. You’re not winning a championship. You can go far, but you’re not winning a championship.

"If Blake Griffin or a big is your best player, I think you’ve got a shot at winning it.”



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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by gyso on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:25 pm

No thank you.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by Ktronic1 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:16 pm

bobheckler wrote:http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/chris-broussard-why-blake-griffin-could-be-the-answer-for-the-celtics-061417



Chris Broussard: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics



Nick Schwartz  @nick_schwartz  



Jun 14, 2017 at 6:38p ET

Celtics biggest threat to land Blake Griffin? | THE HERD



The Golden State Warriors rampaged through the NBA playoffs and are staggering favorites in Vegas to win back-to-back titles, but LeBron James said after Game 5 that teams will be spending the summer trying to assemble a superteam capable of challenging the champs.

While the Cavs likely will be the prohibitive favorites in the East as long as LeBron James is around, the Celtics finished the season with the best record in the conference, and are in the enviable position of having the No. 1 overall draft pick and some cap flexibility. The Celtics have long been linked to Jazz star Gordon Hayward, but Boston is also reportedly considering Blake Griffin, who can opt out of his deal with the Clippers.

On Wednesday's episode of "The Herd", Chris Broussard said we could see some big moves over the summer from Celtics boss Danny Ainge.


The Celtics may be more in win-now mode than people thought The Celtics may be more in win-now mode than people thought


Doug Gottlieb: “Markelle Fultz is working out for the Lakers tomorrow. So that means he hasn’t been guaranteed by the Celtics they’re going to take him first overall. So is this a ‘Hey, they’re wheeling and dealing’? Is it ‘Let’s go get Blake [Griffin], and let’s go get Gordon Hayward?’ Or ‘Let’s trade the 1 for more pieces?’

"It feels like they could make a huge series of moves combining free agency and the draft to go for it now."

Chris Broussard: “Look at Danny Ainge’s history. What’s he best known for? Getting Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in the same summer, and building a championship team.

"You can’t put anything past Danny Ainge. I think what we are seeing now is that they may be more in win-now mode than people thought. And again, I think they may think they’re closer to Cleveland than a lot of others do.”

Winslow Townson USA TODAY Sports
headshot
CHRIS BROUSSARD


Boston will have to make a tough decision about Isaiah Thomas' future Boston will have to make a tough decision about Isaiah Thomas' future


“There are those that think, at some point, they need to trade Isaiah Thomas -- because next year, next summer, he’s going to want max money. And rightly so, but do you give him max money?

"Or if you can get a Blake Griffin for a year, I’d like to see how those two play together.

"Isaiah, as good as he is, if he’s your best player, there’s a ceiling on how far you’re going. You’re not winning a championship. You can go far, but you’re not winning a championship.

"If Blake Griffin or a big is your best player, I think you’ve got a shot at winning it.”



bob

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So do you think IT's days are numbered in Boston? I strongly feel they need to do everything they possibly can to keep him in Green. Agree? No?
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:47 am

If CP3 leaves LAC Blake may leave as well

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by sinus007 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:07 am

Hi,
My question is if Danny gets Blake and Hayward will it be enough to compete against GSW?

AK
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by NYCelt on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:18 am

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
My question is if Danny gets Blake and Hayward will it be enough to compete against GSW?

AK

AK,

Just my $.02...

IF there was any real substance to the rumors and we were to land not one but both, I think we're still a little short of GSW and probably Cleveland too. To get to that level we also need to address the bench. We need a couple of youngsters to get another season under their belt and we need better overall depth. Key would be a bona fide shooter and rebounder off the bench, in addition to what we have plus Blake and Hayward. It's just as much about the bench.

I do think we can get there within a couple of years either way. Current rumors holding truth or not. The relatively weak bench must be addressed too, however.

Regards
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by kdp59 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:36 am

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
My question is if Danny gets Blake and Hayward will it be enough to compete against GSW?

AK

I don't think there is any way to get TWO max or near FA's this off-season, unless some type of trade is involved.

we simply do not have anything close to the room needed to do it.

Now, Blake still has an early termination year coming up, which everyone assumes he will opt out of to become a UFA. But there could be deal made with him and the Clippers that would move him here and then Danny signs him to an extension (ala what happened with KG). Of Course the Clippers would have to be in rebuild mode to be interested, but you can make an argument that they would be a better team in the long run with say Bradley, Crowder and perhaps even the #1 pick instead of the current slim roster they have.

my point is any idea of bringing in TWO star players, will cost us that #1 draft pick along with quality players, IMO.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:45 am

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
My question is if Danny gets Blake and Hayward will it be enough to compete against GSW?

AK

The answer is no.  The Celtics cannot get both of them unless at least one sign and trade is worked out.  We would lose two front line players and probably one of the Nets picks.  

However since our need is for a big I would use the CAP space to sign Blake since we do not need a SF.

If you try to get both of them we will lose both IT and AB. In order to compete with GS you need multiple shooters/scorers.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:47 am

kdp59 wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Hi,
My question is if Danny gets Blake and Hayward will it be enough to compete against GSW?

AK

I don't think there is any way to get TWO max or near FA's this off-season, unless some type of trade is involved.

we simply do not have anything close to the room needed to do it.

Now, Blake still has an early termination year coming up, which everyone assumes  he will opt out of to become a UFA. But there could be deal made with him and the Clippers that would move him here and then Danny signs him to an extension (ala what happened with KG). Of Course the Clippers would have to be in rebuild mode to be interested, but you can make an argument that they would be a better team in the long run with say Bradley, Crowder and perhaps even the #1 pick instead of the current slim roster they have.

my point is any idea of bringing in TWO star players, will cost us that #1 draft pick along with quality players, IMO.


You are right in the money.
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by sinus007 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:56 am

Kdp,
I omitted the $$ part on the following premise.
First we have to determine what players can get us onto GSW level and then worry about money. If player A or player A + player B can't do that why bother.
That if Danny wants to go "all in" this summer. There could be a "gradual" approach: get player A this summer and get player B the next off-season (Lebron may be available...affraid affraid affraid )

AK
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:15 am

kdp59 wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Hi,
My question is if Danny gets Blake and Hayward will it be enough to compete against GSW?

AK

I don't think there is any way to get TWO max or near FA's this off-season, unless some type of trade is involved.

we simply do not have anything close to the room needed to do it.

Now, Blake still has an early termination year coming up, which everyone assumes  he will opt out of to become a UFA. But there could be deal made with him and the Clippers that would move him here and then Danny signs him to an extension (ala what happened with KG). Of Course the Clippers would have to be in rebuild mode to be interested, but you can make an argument that they would be a better team in the long run with say Bradley, Crowder and perhaps even the #1 pick instead of the current slim roster they have.

my point is any idea of bringing in TWO star players, will cost us that #1 draft pick along with quality players, IMO.



kdp,

At the risk of beating a dead horse (never quite understood that saying, to be honest.  Sure, it's not doing any good anymore, if beating a live horse did any good in the first place, but it's not doing any more harm either.  Maybe even tenderizing the meat a bit) I don't see any way there isn't a trade this summer no matter what.

We trade the #1 pick and players for salary purposes to get a high quality player.  I doubt spare parts like Zeller would do it, they would have to be players we have come to like.  Maybe a player some of us like and some of us don't, like Kelly, could help make that happen but I don't see Fultz and a bag of donuts getting us a "needle-mover"

We keep the #1 pick but then we are overloaded on guards (if we take Fultz, Ball, Fox or Smith; even in a trade-down) and need to address our serious short-comings in bigs.

Unless Jonathon Isaac or Lauri Markkanen really, really wow Danny and Brad then there are no quality, needle-moving bigs in this draft that are even worth trading down for, much less using the #1 on.

Which brings us back to a trade.  We need to re-sign Kelly AND another big and NO, I do not think Zizic and Yabby can offset the loss of Amir and Kelly.  You cannot plug a couple of 20 and 21 year old rookies into an NBA team and think they will replace a player who has started on several NBA teams and a player with 4 years experience, inconsistencies and all.  If we do not re-sign Kelly then we need TWO bigs, VETERAN bigs, at least one of which needs to be high quality because he will be starting.  Zizic will replace Zeller, maybe get a few more minutes than Zeller this year (Zeller got 525 minutes this year, that's 10.3mpg over 51 games, let's say Zizic doubles that and gets 1050 minutes) but that is just not enough to offset the loss of Zeller and Kelly.  The other big needs to be able to replace Amir and, hopefully, more than replace him.  We need another veteran big to play back up to whomever starts so that Zizic has that year or two to flatten out his NBA learning curve.  We're not in "rebuild mode" anymore.  We made it to the EC Finals.  We need to stay there, at the minimum, and not drop back because we've regressed and have become a kindergarten again.  


bob


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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by kdp59 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:23 am

BOb,

see my "super team" thread..

just one way to get something like that done, IF Danny is looking at that direction.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:30 am

kdp59 wrote:BOb,

see my "super team" thread..

just one way to get something like that done, IF Danny is looking at that direction.



kdp,

On that thread you posit trading Bradley, Crowder and the #1 to Chicago for Butler.  That's a pretty significant trade, two of our starters and a #1 pick for a single player.  Like I said, I don't see how there is not a trade this off season.  

I'm not sure how happy I am with Smart being the full-time starting SG, like you picture the roster after your trades/signings but that's what we have if Danny does your idea (which he very well might).


bob


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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by wideclyde on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:35 am

sinus007,

I think with so many of our current guard corps coming into free agency next summer that your suggestion of the "gradual" approach may be Ainge's second type of direction this summer. Getting
another big piece in the summer of 2018 may something that he just will not be able to do unless he decides to not worry about the tax penalties, and this is something that the Cs have been seriously avoiding for a while now.

Sign and trade for perhaps both Hayward and Griffin could work to the benefit of both the Cs and also for both players. Sign and trade for both may get them on two or three year contracts which puts them right in line to fit in well with Horford's contract. For the two players, signing for three years will allow them both to sign another big contract before their careers end and probably when the salary cap is higher than it will be this summer.

The questions then are: 1) are both of these guys sending us past Cleveland? And, 2) what is the cost to the team's core.

A potentially different road to take might be to get both Porzingis and Anthony from the Knicks for a bunch of picks so as to not so much shake up the core players that Stevens has molded into what he wants. Porzingis is a young star who plays a position of our largest need while Anthony is not my favorite NBA player, can still score.

I see both the Cloppers and the Jazz demanding NBA ready players than just the promise of draft picks. The Knicks are much closer to realizing that they are in rebuilding mode even if they have not come right out and said so yet.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by kdp59 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:50 am

bobheckler wrote:
kdp59 wrote:BOb,

see my "super team" thread..

just one way to get something like that done, IF Danny is looking at that direction.



kdp,

On that thread you posit trading Bradley, Crowder and the #1 to Chicago for Butler.  That's a pretty significant trade, two of our starters and a #1 pick for a single player.  Like I said, I don't see how there is not a trade this off season.  

I'm not sure how happy I am with Smart being the full-time starting SG, like you picture the roster after your trades/signings but that's what we have if Danny does your idea (which he very well might).


bob


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yes it was only meant as one option that would work cap wise. I'm not sure how much I like the whole idea myself. Though adding a player like Patterson with the $8M exception certainly would ill the roster and have to put us at least level with the Cav's next year and we'd still be a lot younger than them.

Kicking that dead horse again......it WILL cost a lot to get two star's added this off-season.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:27 pm

wideclyde wrote:sinus007,

I think with so many of our current guard corps coming into free agency next summer that your suggestion of the "gradual" approach may be Ainge's second type of direction this summer.  Getting
another big piece in the summer of 2018 may something that he just will not be able to do unless he decides to not worry about the tax penalties, and this is something that the Cs have been seriously avoiding for a while now.

Sign and trade for perhaps both Hayward and Griffin could work to the benefit of both the Cs and also for both players.  Sign and trade for both may get them on two or three year contracts which puts them right in line to fit in well with Horford's contract.  For the two players, signing for three years will allow them both to sign another big contract before their careers end and probably when the salary cap is higher than it will be this summer.

The questions then are: 1) are both of these guys sending us past Cleveland?  And, 2) what is the cost to the team's core.

A potentially different road to take might be to get both Porzingis and Anthony from the Knicks for a bunch of picks so as to not so much shake up the core players that Stevens has molded into what he wants.  Porzingis is a young star who plays a position of our largest need while Anthony is not my favorite NBA player, can still score.

I see both the Cloppers and the Jazz demanding NBA ready players than just the promise of draft picks.  The Knicks are much closer to realizing that they are in rebuilding mode even if they have not come right out and said so yet.


Clyde,

Getting past Cleveland isn't enough, we have to get past GSW. Otherwise it's just a "Participation Trophy".

Getting past Cleveland will get easier as LeBron faces up to the inevitability of time.

Getting past GSW will, I think, require some help from the salary cap, specifically "theirs"


bob


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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:00 pm

Given multiple variables I would say no to Blake Griffin.

He has been injured each of the past 3 years. He can score the basketball but is no longer a dominant rebounder and he has never been a rim protector.

His 29% shooting from behind the arc seals it for me. LAC will never win a championship with Paul, Griffin and Jordan. Not in today's NBA. If they are smart they will move Griffin and if we are smart we will not be part of that move.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by red16russ11 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:47 pm

Hayward 1, Griffin 2.......that is my order of preference
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by swish on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:02 pm

What ever puts a smile on a pro's face (Danny} makes me happy also.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:10 pm

Hayward no and Griffin no.

Save the money and assets to really address team needs.
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by red16russ11 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:21 pm

dboss wrote:Hayward no and Griffin no.

Save the money and assets to really address team needs.

Such as?

Hayward solved scoring, Blake solves scoring and rebounding (he got 9 per game WITH Jordan, he'd get over 10 easily on our team)

Edit - not trying to be a smart ass, just curious to know what your opinion is on our needs.
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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by swish on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:42 pm

yeah - you gotta wonder how much playing 2nd fiddle to super rebounder Jordan may have cut into Griffins rebounding numbers.

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Re: Why Blake Griffin could be the answer for the Celtics

Post by dboss on Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:03 pm

red16russ11 wrote:
dboss wrote:Hayward no and Griffin no.

Save the money and assets to really address team needs.

Such as?

Hayward solved scoring, Blake solves scoring and rebounding  (he got 9 per game WITH Jordan, he'd get over 10 easily on our team)

Edit - not trying to be a smart ass, just curious to know what your opinion is on our needs.

hey red .. legit question

Hayward plays the same position as Jaylen Brown the # 3 pick last year and we still have a young veteran in Crowder.  The contracts work well.
Hayward is a very good player but in my opinion he is not a great player so I am not paying max money for him.    On the defensive side of the ball he does not have the speed athleticism or strength to bang with the top of the line SF in the NBA.  Since you would be paying out max money it limits your ability to resign IT and AB and KO and MS.  He does not really move the needle for us.  If you add a shooter and lose a shooter what have you really gained?

Forget about Griffin.  He is a 4 with no ability to stretch the floor.  He is no longer a great rebounder and he has NEVER been much of a defender and certainly not a rim protector.  Again if you are going to spend max money a player needs to check most of the boxes.  

Even if we could actually make a deal work which i seriously doubt that they could, I do not see this team at a championship level.  So for example if you signed Hayward as a free agent there goes your cap space.  Then if you worked a sign and trade deal for Griffin you will have to part with good players (shooters) and probably one of our Nets picks.

Once you make those deals how many good 3 point shooter would be left?  Keep in mind that the Clippers do not have to agree to a sign and trade.  The short answer is that adding Hayward does not address the depth of shooters on the team and adding Griffin still leaves you without a stretch player and rim protector.

DA needs to keep his core players and add to them.   If you go up the road and add Hayward and griffin there is no place else to go.  This is probably the last year for a good while that we have some Cap space to leverage.

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