BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

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BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by 112288 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:01 am

Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Boston Herald

Steve Bulpett Friday, June 16, 2017

The Celtics and 76ers have been involved in substantive talks regarding a trade involving the first and third picks in next Thursday’s NBA draft, the Herald has confirmed. The story was first reported by ESPN and The Vertical.

According to Herald sources, however, the move does not appear to be imminent, and it’s quite possible nothing will be decided until perhaps Monday.

Both clubs are looking into what else Philadelphia would need to offer to move up the two positions in the draft. Per the discussions that already have taken place, it’s a given that the 76ers will have to include at least one other future first-round pick.


The prize for Philly is Washington guard Markelle Fultz, who, while he is seen as the best bet by most in the NBA, is not necessarily viewed as a transcendent player. The risk for the Celtics is that he becomes one.

According to league sources, the Celts have been very willing to discuss deals for the No. 1 choice.

“If (the Celtics) can turn that into more than one player and still get a guy it wants (in this draft), I think they’d love to do that,” one NBA executive said.

While Danny Ainge may like some more than others, sources now and over the latter half of the college season say he’s been looking hardest into guards Fultz and Lonzo Ball and forwards Josh Jackson and Jayson Tatum.

The Celts certainly would benefit from adding any one of those players, but the key to this transaction may be the additional asset gained. It might be helpful to view this potential move for what it could also bring.

It would be a fair certainty Philadelphia will be conveying either its first-rounder in 2018 or the one in the same draft it acquired from the Lakers. The Celtics already have Brooklyn’s 2018 first-round pick, as well as their own.

And at this point, Ainge has to be looking even harder at turning these stock futures into present day value. With Al Horford having turned 31 earlier this month and Isaiah Thomas about to enter the final year of his contract, it would behoove the Celtics to see what they can accomplish now instead of just playing the long game. And they’ve already been hoarding potential cap space to make a run at a major free agent this summer.

In other words, there could be more shoes to drop if this deal goes through, and the Celts at least will be in position to offer a fair bundle of picks and younger players of value to a team that may be nearing the wall with a present star.

The C’s have done very well rebuilding on the fly with draft picks and tradeable players (Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, etc.), and another club might believe it can replicate that rise. The difference in a deal the Celtics could make now is that, unlike their key trade with the Nets, they wouldn’t be leaving their cupboard bare. The more valuable picks they would be giving up would be based on other teams having lottery-bound seasons.

Getting back to the current issue being discussed, one can expect both the Celtics and Sixers to investigate this deal over the next day or two before reaching a final decision.

There may be a bit more pressure on Philly, as other clubs potentially move in to see if they can get their hands on the first overall pick.

It was said here since the draft lottery put the Celtics in the driver’s seat that Ainge’s chances to step on the accelerator improved greatly. The matter of whether he can get the C’s in position to compete with the league’s elite will be decided by how well he can parlay the moves that appear to be moving into greater proximity.


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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:29 am

I'm getting all excited seeing the possibility of my proposed super team coming together.

The Bull will be foolish to not take Bradley, Crowder , #3 pick and the Lakers pick next year for Butler and #16 pick. Lets be honest that four potential starters for them in the long run and they have been stuck at around a .500 team for a couple years now.

in only a few weeks we may be reading national stories about how the Celtics are the team to dethrone the GS Dynasty.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:52 am

kdp59 wrote:I'm getting all excited seeing the possibility of my  proposed super team coming together.

The Bull will be foolish to not take Bradley, Crowder , #3 pick and the Lakers pick next year for Butler and #16 pick. Lets be honest that four potential starters for them in the long run and they have been stuck at around a .500 team for a couple years now.

in only a few weeks we may be reading national stories about how the Celtics are the team to dethrone the GS Dynasty.


Jesus, I hope we don't make that trade. If we do, Ainge should be fired. That is just way, way too much.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:55 am

not go get Blake or Millsap also...Danny will need to drop salary and Bradley will be gone after next year anyway. Crowder is redundant and the lesser player with both Butler and Jayen still here.

you have no way of getting two all-stars on this team without giving up assets.
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by sinus007 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:06 pm

Hi,
IMO, AB+Crowder + whatever picks is way too much for Butler.

AK
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:32 pm

This isn't football or soccer or baseball or any other team sport where there are many players on the field/court at the same time. A basketball squad is relatively small, there are only 5 players on the court at any one time and, on average, 5 players consume over 160 minutes of a 240 minute regulation game. It is critical that those players be as good as possible.

Will Avery Bradley ever be an All-Star, much less All-League? Maybe. Not likely but possible.

Will Jae Crowder ever be an All-Star, much less All-League? No.

As much as I like both of these players I would trade them for a player who, at 27 years of age, has already been a 3x All-Star and NBA All League 3rd team. As far as Bradley's defense goes, yeah he's got that but Butler has been 3x All-Defensive 2nd team. Not 1st team like Bradley, but not matador defense neither. Bradley did a great job against Butler in the playoffs but Butler was carrying that whole damn team.


bob


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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by wideclyde on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:36 pm

I don't get to watch Butler all the time, but I am not sure that he is worth a whole lot more to the Cs than Jae Crowder.

No way I could see trading the #3 pick, an unprotected Lakers pick in 2018 along with Bradley and Crowder for Butler and a 16th pick and expect to be better in 2018.  Bradley and Crowder average nearly 30 PPG between them and both are important pieces of our core.  The #3 pick could also be a star and so could that Lakers pick next year.

Just too much for one guy who may not even be better for us than is our own #99.


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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by red16russ11 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:41 pm

For Butler, who I think is a stud.......I would give Zeller, AB or Crowder, next year's BOS pick and next year's lakers pick. That's it.
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by wideclyde on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:42 pm

Bob,

IF Butler were that good that it is going to take two possible lottery picks and two really good players to get him in a trade, I would expect him to be able to carry his team in a playoff series especially when his team had a 2-0 lead after the first two games in said series.

Bradley and Crowder (never mind the two lottery picks) may never become all stars, but some times a guy can bring a lot to a team without having been recognized as an all star.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:09 pm

wideclyde wrote:Bob,

IF Butler were that good that it is going to take two possible lottery picks and two really good players to get him in a trade, I would expect him to be able to carry his team in a playoff series especially when his team had a 2-0 lead after the first two games in said series.

Bradley and Crowder (never mind the two lottery picks) may never become all stars, but some times a guy can bring a lot to a team without having been recognized as an all star.


Clyde,

NO player can carry a team by himself.  KD couldn't do it in OKC, and he had Westbrook too.  A young KG couldn't get Minny deep into the playoffs with Wally and Sam Cassell. LBJ couldn't do it two years ago against GSW when Love and Irving were out, and he is the best player on the planet.  If LeBron was a couple years younger, just to take the age issue away, wouldn't you trade 2 lottery picks and AB and Crowder for him?  I would in a hummingbird's heartbeat.  Ok, so Jimmy Butler isn't LBJ, but the point of "I would expect him to be able to carry his team in a playoff series especially when his team had a 2-0 lead after the first two games in said series" has been addressed, I hope. I feel that is an unrealistically high standard. My 2c.  

It takes more than IT.

It takes more than LBJ.

It takes more than Butler.

But, with some quality help, it gets much easier with them than with lesser talents.


bob


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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:37 pm

many underestimate how good Butler is AND how good his contract is for the next two years. As Bob said, 3 time all star AND 3 time all defense. Two full years under contract at UNDER $20M per. will be 28YO next season. eh averaged 23.9pts per game, shooting 36.7 from 3. 6.2 rebounds, 5.5 assist per game . that is PER GAME not per 36min. Can play both the 2 and 3 and GUARD any of them.

but he's not good enough for some here.

Like I said Bradley is gone next year anyway, not enough money. Crowder is an average NBA starter to be honest. The Lakers pick (if we get it) is nothing but found money. But hey if Danny can snatch him for less GREAT.

you also need to dump Bradley and Crowder's deals if you want to get those two all stars this off-season. you simply cannot make the numbers work without doing it.

who knows if it will happen, most of you know I have been all in for getting him here for a year and half now. does Danny like him enough..we may find out.

but at some point Danny will have to start cashing in those chips. IF the Philly trade goes through he will have more draft picks..what would that be, 6 first rounders in the 2018-2020 drafts?

can't use them all folks and IF you do, then half the current team will be gone anyway.

I believe that Danny is in BUY NOW mode. not "gather more assets".

Maybe its Paul George instead of Butler (though with only one year left on his deal I am not sure why anyone would prefer him), but I think Danny is going to try to make the Celtics relevant in the talk of the best team in the NBA for NEXT year.

we shall see.
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by red16russ11 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:55 pm

kdp59 wrote:many underestimate how good Butler is AND how good his contract is for the next two years. As Bob said, 3 time all star AND 3 time all defense. Two full years under contract at UNDER $20M per. will be 28YO next season. eh averaged 23.9pts per game, shooting 36.7 from 3. 6.2 rebounds, 5.5 assist per game . that is PER GAME not per 36min.  Can play both the 2 and 3 and GUARD any of them.

but he's not good enough for some here.

Like I said Bradley is gone next year anyway, not enough money. Crowder is an average NBA starter to be honest. The Lakers pick (if we get it) is nothing but found money. But hey if Danny can snatch him for less GREAT.

you also need to dump Bradley and Crowder's deals if you want to get those two all stars this off-season. you simply cannot make the numbers work without doing it.

who knows if it will happen, most of you know I have been all in for getting him here for a year and half now. does Danny like him enough..we may find out.

but at some point Danny will have to start  cashing in those chips. IF the Philly trade goes through he will have more draft picks..what would that be, 6 first rounders in the 2018-2020 drafts?

can't use them all folks and IF you do, then half the current team will be gone anyway.

I believe that Danny is in BUY NOW mode. not "gather more assets".

Maybe its Paul George instead of Butler (though with only one year left on his deal I am not sure why anyone would prefer him), but I think Danny is going to try to make the Celtics relevant in the talk of the best team in the NBA for NEXT year.

we shall see.

I agree with you. While it would have been nice to see Fultz in green (which still may happen, IMO), Butler is clearly the better player. Not cool, though, that CHI pretty much assured him he'd be back next year, and they would build around him. Would this trade signal the end of Rondo and Wade as well?
I really don't want to give up this year's pick, but AB/Crowder, Zeller and TWO next year should be enough.

Salivating at the thought of IT, Butler, Brown, Blake and Horford as starters......with Rozier, Smart, Tatum (?), Giles/Leaf (?) and Zizic
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by swish on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:18 pm

By my personal measuring stick -  Butler, George and Griffin are all super elite and would be a step in the right direction towards winning a championship - because at the moment no nba team, in the past 38 years, has won an nba championship without at least one super elite player on the roster - and at the present the Celts have 0 super elite players on the roster.

  swish

I would also point out - that simply having a super elite player on the roster doen't cut it unless the team has shown the ability to be quite competitive during the current or previous year - so I have set a minimum standard winning percentage of .610 (50-32) for either of those years.

swish


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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:29 pm

bobheckler wrote:This isn't football or soccer or baseball or any other team sport where there are many players on the field/court at the same time.  A basketball squad is relatively small, there are only 5 players on the court at any one time and, on average, 5 players consume over 160 minutes of a 240 minute regulation game.  It is critical that those players be as good as possible.

Will Avery Bradley ever be an All-Star, much less All-League?  Maybe.  Not likely but possible.

Will Jae Crowder ever be an All-Star, much less All-League?  No.

As much as I like both of these players I would trade them for a player who, at 27 years of age, has already been a 3x All-Star and NBA All League 3rd team.  As far as Bradley's defense goes, yeah he's got that but Butler has been 3x All-Defensive 2nd team.  Not 1st team like Bradley, but not matador defense neither.  Bradley did a great job against Butler in the playoffs but Butler was carrying that whole damn team.


bob


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That's reasonable, throwing the number 3 this yr and the Lakers unprotected next year is way too much. Way, way too much.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:35 pm

LOL..I;m all for trading them OUR 2018 first for him. But I beleive Danny already knows what they were asking at the trade deadline for Butler.

Danny punted when they wanted two players and both Nets picks (as he should have). Getting that Lakers pick form Philly, allows him to give them what they want and still have one of the nets (or Lakers) pick next year.

it just seems to fit, but probably fits too much to be reality.
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by red16russ11 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:39 pm

We should take a poll to see how many of us believe this is real
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:44 pm

bobheckler wrote:
wideclyde wrote:Bob,

IF Butler were that good that it is going to take two possible lottery picks and two really good players to get him in a trade, I would expect him to be able to carry his team in a playoff series especially when his team had a 2-0 lead after the first two games in said series.

Bradley and Crowder (never mind the two lottery picks) may never become all stars, but some times a guy can bring a lot to a team without having been recognized as an all star.


Clyde,

NO player can carry a team by himself.  KD couldn't do it in OKC, and he had Westbrook too.  A young KG couldn't get Minny deep into the playoffs with Wally and Sam Cassell.  LBJ couldn't do it two years ago against GSW when Love and Irving were out, and he is the best player on the planet.  If LeBron was a couple years younger, just to take the age issue away, wouldn't you trade 2 lottery picks and AB and Crowder for him?  I would in a hummingbird's heartbeat.  Ok, so Jimmy Butler isn't LBJ, but the point of "I would expect him to be able to carry his team in a playoff series especially when his team had a 2-0 lead after the first two games in said series" has been addressed, I hope.  I feel that is an unrealistically high standard.  My 2c.  

It takes more than IT.

It takes more than LBJ.

It takes more than Butler.

But, with some quality help, it gets much easier with them than with lesser talents.


bob


.

LeBron is beyond a generational talent. He is a once-in-the-history-of-the-universe talent. Jimmy Butler isn't. Not even close. The fact that most of us would make that trade for LeBron doesn't justify making it for Jimmy. If Danny were to want to get rid of all those players and assets, he should get more back than one very good player and a chance to draft another James young.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:53 pm

kdp59 wrote:many underestimate how good Butler is AND how good his contract is for the next two years. As Bob said, 3 time all star AND 3 time all defense. Two full years under contract at UNDER $20M per. will be 28YO next season. eh averaged 23.9pts per game, shooting 36.7 from 3. 6.2 rebounds, 5.5 assist per game . that is PER GAME not per 36min.  Can play both the 2 and 3 and GUARD any of them.

but he's not good enough for some here.

Like I said Bradley is gone next year anyway, not enough money. Crowder is an average NBA starter to be honest. The Lakers pick (if we get it) is nothing but found money. But hey if Danny can snatch him for less GREAT.

you also need to dump Bradley and Crowder's deals if you want to get those two all stars this off-season. you simply cannot make the numbers work without doing it.

who knows if it will happen, most of you know I have been all in for getting him here for a year and half now. does Danny like him enough..we may find out.

but at some point Danny will have to start  cashing in those chips. IF the Philly trade goes through he will have more draft picks..what would that be, 6 first rounders in the 2018-2020 drafts?

can't use them all folks and IF you do, then half the current team will be gone anyway.

I believe that Danny is in BUY NOW mode. not "gather more assets".

Maybe its Paul George instead of Butler (though with only one year left on his deal I am not sure why anyone would prefer him), but I think Danny is going to try to make the Celtics relevant in the talk of the best team in the NBA for NEXT year.

we shall see.

No doubt you have some totally valid points about not being able to afford everyone and needing to convert some of our assets I to players. I just think Celtics lose the particular trade you propose. But hey, I'm just some guy typing on a Celtics fan site.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by wideclyde on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Bob,

I do not doubt that Butler is a good player.  I just do not think that he is worth anywhere near our Nets pick this year, another first round pick next year and both of Bradley and Crowder.  Make some changes in this proposal (I can't remember who made it), and I could possibly be sold on it.

Relating to your mention of trading Crowder, Bradley and two top picks for James when he was four years younger, I would have made that deal as fast as anyone.  Even four years ago LeBron James was the best player in the league by far.  I doubt that anyone thinks that Butler is the best player even in the Eastern Conference today even if you did not count James.  You are quite correct in saying that Butler is not James.

I also understand your thoughts of 'carrying" a team through the entire playoffs is not (and, cannot be) a one person job, but with a 2-0 lead and Boston having its best player in a tizzy after losing his sister, I still think that a franchise player (if Butler is one) should have been able to win two more games out of five. LBJ would not have let Avery Bradley (a very good, but not great player) dictate who won that series by crushing Butler and the Bulls in game #3 on Butler's home court.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by swish on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:39 pm

Speculation, speculation and more speculation - perhaps a deal will get done and then we will find out what both the Celts and Bulls consider to be a fair deal.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by swish on Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:40 pm

Some of this years and next years top draft picks, plus recent high picks Brown and Smart, will be available to be used as trading chips by Danny - to obtain via trade, this year or next, one or more super elite players.

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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by red16russ11 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:19 pm

I think we should take Fultz, then let the bidding start. And start with the lakers....up next, PHI, the PHO......all the way down to SAC. WE could still get Isaac or Smith or Tatum if LAL takes Jackson. But we have to get Fultz off the board to continue to have leverage.

Once we get by SAC - call CHI. Fultz, AB, Crowder and ONE pick next year for Butler. Then we can still sign Blake.
IT, Butler, Brown, Blake and Horford has me salivating for next year.
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

Post by willjr on Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:02 pm

^ +1
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Re: BULPETT TAKE > Celtics, 76ers discussing potential deal for No. 1 pick in NBA draft

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