DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by 112288 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:32 am

DUMB!

After top 2 picks in any draft which are heavy cream the rest of the picks are half n' half.

So Danny how did all your picks you had last year add up to top talent trades in the past? Everyone devalued your picks!

So what type of superstar player are you going to draft with picks at 8,9,10,11,12, 13,14 or lower? Like looking for a needle in a haystack.

What a waste!

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:44 am

i withhold judgement until I see all the Celtic ducks in a row. This had alot to do with money I think. Opens up more cash for DA to go after free agents with a ton of money in his bank book.

let's just wait until it all falls into place. If this is it, than yes, I agree with you, it was waste
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by 112288 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:56 am

Rosalie,

I believe your comment is spot on and you have always been the voice of reason
and non-emotional rational.

However, I think Danny is trying to thread a needle in a dark room. When you become to cute and think you've outfoxed the other guy is when you are most susceptible to getting hurt.

We shall wait and see.

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by dboss on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:56 am

I really do not see Boston holding on to all those picks.  We need help now at PF and center and if we draft another SF (we will  have 3 on the roster) one would need to be traded.  I still do not see  Butler deal in the works if we draft another SF.  

Celtics must have a trade brewing outside of the lottery game or maybe he has a lot of faith that both Zizic and yabu will fill the void.

In any case DA continues to stockpile draft picks from teams that are still stuck in the lottery and it is likely that some will be used to acquire a star and other will be used to add more high potential prospects.

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:14 am

I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by dboss on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:19 am

red16russ11 wrote:I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler

seems like a lot to give up for Bultler
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:21 am

dboss wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler

seems like a lot to give up for Bultler

Okay, then, not this year's pick, but AB and Crowder have to go to make salary cap room to sign another FA.

Next years' lakers pick, AB and Crowder.............
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 am

Danny and Brad didn't want Fultz.  Obviously.  If they had kept the #1 pick it would not have been used on Fultz.  I don't know why they don't like him, but they don't.  Obviously.  It seemed to me things really started to go downhill fast after Brad talked to his HS guidance counselor about how Markelle learns.  Regardless, Brad and Danny are not on the same page as most of us.  I don't know what they know, I just know that the Markelle Fultz Hype Train was just that, hype.  The more they looked at him the less it was going to happen.

Are they in love with Jackson or Ball?  Not yet, at least, because if they were then they would have kept the #1 and made sure they got their man.  Jackson is, allegedly, working out for the Celtics in Sacramento today and will visit the Celtics in Boston.  Ball is still a question mark as far as work outs.

Are they in love with anybody in this draft?  Maybe, but it makes sense that it is not someone that may be gone by #3 which means not Ball or Jackson since one of them is likely to be gone by then.  

Markelle Fultz might become a superstar.  He might also become D'Angelo Russell.  

If the #3 pick gets us a great player, and everybody talks about how deep this draft is, then we got the guy Danny and Brad wants and another lottery pick.  If their pick turns out well, then this is a killer deal, a smaller version of the Brooklyn deal which will continue to be the gift that keeps on giving as this year's Brooklyn pick with get us a player (e.g. Jackson, Tatum, etc)  has also helped beget next year's Lakers pick (if 2-5, or Sacto's 2019 first) in addition to next year's Brooklyn pick.

If the #3 pick turns into Butler or George, then that's an elite player in place of the potential of an elite player (see Russell, D'Angelo).  Is this a distinct possibility?  Well, inquiring minds might wonder why this deal went down days before the draft and not on draft night.  What is the advantage of doing it now vs then?  Maybe they need the extra days to finalize the next deal?  While Jackson seems to be cooperating with the Celtics now I don't think the trade is what shook him loose, so they probably didn't do it now just to get an audience with Mr. Jackson.  The Jackson workout might be to get medical info on a player they might take if another deal falls through or so they can provide that info to another team that Jackson won't work out for because they don't have a high draft pick.


bob


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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by dboss on Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:18 pm

red16russ11 wrote:
dboss wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler

seems like a lot to give up for Bultler

Okay, then, not this year's pick, but AB and Crowder have to go to make salary cap room to sign another FA.

Next years' lakers pick, AB and Crowder.............

Crowder is under a cheap contract for 3 more years. We already have enough cap space to sign one free agent now.

If the Celtics use the pick for either Jackson or Tatum why would they also need the SF Butler? Or do they trade the pick along with the Laker's pick next year and Crowder for Butler?

Is it possible that Boston may use the pick in another trade along with one of the first rounders next year and go after a star player like George instead of Butler. They would also have to include players to make the salary work. (not the Nets pick next year) The Net's pick next year has more value than either the 2018 Laker's pick or the consolation price Sacto pick in 2019. The Lakers pick has a very narrow window. It has to fall between 2-5.

Or just many Danny has his sights set on an even bigger fish.. AD

A lot of possibilities.

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:47 pm

dboss wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:
dboss wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler

seems like a lot to give up for Bultler

Okay, then, not this year's pick, but AB and Crowder have to go to make salary cap room to sign another FA.

Next years' lakers pick, AB and Crowder.............

Crowder is under a cheap contract for 3 more years.  We already have enough cap space to sign one free agent now.  

If the Celtics use the pick for either Jackson or Tatum why would they also need the SF Butler?  Or do they trade the pick along with the Laker's pick next year and Crowder for Butler?

Is it possible that Boston may use the pick in another trade along with one of the first rounders next year and go after a star player like George instead of Butler.  They would also have to include players to make the salary work.  (not the Nets pick next year)  The Net's pick next year has more value than either the 2018 Laker's pick or the consolation price Sacto pick in 2019.  The Lakers pick has a very narrow window.  It has to fall between 2-5.

Or just many Danny has his sights set on an even bigger fish..  AD

A lot of possibilities.

dboss


Including salary is why they need to add Crowder to any deal. Butler will play SG next to IT, with Horford and the free agent, if we can get one. I think trading for 1 to 3 gives us enough room now to sign a max FA.....Hayward or Blake. If we get Bulter, I'd have to think it's Blake, because who will rebound? Unless, as you say, it's AD - who I'd mortgage the farm for
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by dboss on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:00 pm

Red

So you have AB being replaced by Butler at SG? This has certainly turned into a guessing game with multiple possibilities.

If Boston got any of the two between (Butler, Blake and Hayward) they would have 3 max contracts on the books. What about resigning KO, IT and Smart?

If Boston intends to keep IT they probably do not have enough Cap space to add 2 more max contracts. They money that they spend needs to be for the right player and as we know we only have one reliable big on the team in Horford.

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by kdp59 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:20 pm

Kicking a dead horse again here...My specialty.

but we DO NOT have cap space to sign ANY outside Free agents except those that can come from exceptions (mid level and Bi-annual).

I urge every Celtic fan to review the link below it lays out everything but the draft pick next week (which I think they will add once its made).

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

with our holds we are at $112.9M , the #3 pick hold will be something around $4M or so.

so we start the new NBA year (with no moves) at $16M OVER the cap.

Renouncing the rights to resign Amir gets us near the cap. And we cannot resign him for a year I believe is the rule.

renouncing Jerebko saves us $9.5M

Cutting Zeller saves us $8M

Renouncing Young saves us $2.8M

Then you have about $20M in space for an outside FA. While that may get you a player like Ibaka, it will NOT get you a Blake, Millsap or Hayward.

you have to renounce Kelly ($7.7M) to get near max dollars for one of the big dogs.

to get a second All-star  you will then have to trade/drop the cost of their salary form the roster, with players currently here.

enjoy!
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:45 pm

kdp59 wrote:Kicking a dead horse again here...My specialty.

but we DO NOT have cap space to sign ANY outside Free agents except those that can come from exceptions (mid level and Bi-annual).

I urge every Celtic fan to review the link below it lays out everything but the draft pick next week (which I think they will add once its made).

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

with our holds we are at $112.9M , the #3 pick hold will be something around $4M or so.

so we start the new NBA year (with no moves) at $16M OVER the cap.

Renouncing the rights to resign Amir gets us near the cap. And we cannot resign him for a year I believe is the rule.

renouncing Jerebko saves us $9.5M

Cutting Zeller saves us $8M

Renouncing Young saves us $2.8M

Then you have about $20M in space for an outside FA. While that may get you a player like Ibaka, it will NOT get you a Blake, Millsap or Hayward.

you have to renounce Kelly ($7.7M) to get near max dollars for one of the big dogs.

to get a second All-star  you will then have to trade/drop the cost of their salary form the roster, with players currently here.

enjoy!

kdp,

You are correct (and the horse is already dead anyway, so kick away, it'll never know).  We have NO cap space to sign free agents beyond the exceptions.  We are, as you point out, over the cap.  We're going to have to lighten up on contracts to create dollars.

Regards
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:13 pm

fierce wrote:This is a great deal for the Celts.

I would never have imagined Ainge getting this much for the #1 pick.

Not only does this give the Celts potentially 2 picks in the top 3 or top 5, it also allows the Celts to get 2 star players this summer.

Ainge can trade the #3 pick for Jimmy Butler or Paul George then sign Hayward or Griffin in free-agency.

Well done Danny Ainge!
Where is it indicated that we'll get 2 picks in the top 3 or 5? This year? I hope you're right Fierce...
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:14 pm

George has told the Pacers he wants out and preferably to the Lakers. So we dont want him.
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:17 pm

red16russ11 wrote:I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler
We would be giving wayyy to much. No way.
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:18 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
fierce wrote:This is a great deal for the Celts.

I would never have imagined Ainge getting this much for the #1 pick.

Not only does this give the Celts potentially 2 picks in the top 3 or top 5, it also allows the Celts to get 2 star players this summer.

Ainge can trade the #3 pick for Jimmy Butler or Paul George then sign Hayward or Griffin in free-agency.

Well done Danny Ainge!
Where is it indicated that we'll get 2 picks in the top 3 or 5? This year?  I hope you're right Fierce...


Ktronic,

Those top 5 picks could be next year, Brooklyn's and LA's if it is 2-5.


bob


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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:19 pm

red16russ11 wrote:
dboss wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:I think 3 and a next years pick, along with AB and Crowder are going for Butler

seems like a lot to give up for Bultler

Okay, then, not this year's pick, but AB and Crowder have to go to make salary cap room to sign another FA.

Next years' lakers pick, AB and Crowder.............

Ahhhh..thats better especially if we get Jackson and he is what Jaylen Rose and others say he is.
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by NYCelt on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:24 pm

112288 wrote:Rosalie,

I believe your comment is spot on and you have always been the voice of reason
and non-emotional rational.

However, I think Danny is trying to thread a needle in a dark room.  When you become to cute and think you've outfoxed the other guy is when you are most susceptible to getting hurt.

We shall wait and see.

112288




Rich,

First off, Happy Fathers Day!  I hope Karen and the girls are doing well.

Second and third... I think you're right on two scores here.  The first; Rosalie usually is the voice of reason.

The third, and the one I want to comment on, is that I also think Danny did just OK here, and could have done better.  I know your history, so I know you're used to high level bargaining, often beyond the levels we discuss with a pro-league GM.  As you know, I've got a bit of that in my pocket too. Simply put, I think Danny pulled the string too soon.

I should say, I'm happy...to a point.  I've been repeating myself over and over that if I were the GM, I'd take a SF.  Specifically Tatum or Jackson. They both fit our offensive and defensive schemes well, and our current SF duo is nice, but not beyond second tier if you're building a contender.  I value Brown especially as a guy who can come off the bench and defend several positions, but an NBA starting SF, he's not.  He and Smart are proving to be the caliber you need on your bench if you're building a contender.

So back to the deal and Jackson/Tatum.  I think Danny should have waited and perhaps could have gotten more.  The two picks he got have strings attached.  Next year's is in a draft thought to be deep on bigs.  Good there.  The following year is way to soon to know.  In each case it's not certain if those picks will fall outside the sweet spot you pointed out.  Therefore, even the further trade value on those picks is diminished.

If the 76ers were that desperate to draft Fultz, why do it nearly a week ahead?  Surely, even the 6ers must have something more to sweeten the pot.  Got any reserves that we might like in exchange for one of ours?  Or how about the Lakers?  As evil as it seems dealing with them, they're in the west (and Celtics fans need to get over themselves on dealing with LA if it makes us stronger).  We're not contributing to strengthening a division rival.  What's more, it couldn't hurt to at least use talks with Magic to push the 76ers deal a little further.

I won't even get too deep on how this doesn't do anything to help acquire trade or FA targets, at least not yet.  Suffice it to say we're over the cap and need to trim or trade contracts.  In terms of draft picks to deal, we now have this year's #3, which should be very good, but those two in '18 and '19 that are a mixed bag.  We do still have next year's Nets pick, of course.

We also don't know what LA will do, they may take Jackson.  That's not good assuming he's our target, although I'm on record as being even happier with Tatum.  Do we want Ball?  Not if we have Thomas and Rozier.  So we need to be as happy if we get Tatum as Jackson.  Again, I'm good with that personally, but why jump from the drivers seat to the passenger seat on Saturday when the draft is Thursday?  Way too soon.

I get where you're coming from with the concerns you expressed, despite looking like I'll get my SF wish.  The only way this deal really makes sense, is if Ainge already has a trading partner who will be satisfied with some combination of our two '18s, our '19, and perhaps some of our current roster. With Danny's record that could very well be, and I'm waiting to see.  If not, I'm just OK with this, and think Danny will have put himself under the gun.

If you and I had negotiated deals like this, we would have left a lot of chips on the table.  Like I said, I'm happy to a point, but puzzled unless there is indeed more to come that explains the timing.

Regards


Last edited by NYCelt on Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by Ktronic1 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:31 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktronic1 wrote:
fierce wrote:This is a great deal for the Celts.

I would never have imagined Ainge getting this much for the #1 pick.

Not only does this give the Celts potentially 2 picks in the top 3 or top 5, it also allows the Celts to get 2 star players this summer.

Ainge can trade the #3 pick for Jimmy Butler or Paul George then sign Hayward or Griffin in free-agency.

Well done Danny Ainge!
Where is it indicated that we'll get 2 picks in the top 3 or 5? This year?  I hope you're right Fierce...


Ktronic,

Those top 5 picks could be next year, Brooklyn's and LA's if it is 2-5.


bob


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Geez. Another year and more hope. There needs to be a trade or a big name coming and soon. Still trusting Danny has this figured out. Just hope we're not all in wheelchairs by then.
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by Rmbone on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:34 pm

I think Woj reported that it's between Jackson and Tatum. Kind of surprised Dennis Smith Jr isn't among the final candidates, though this is just rumors and Smith Jr was in Boston yesterday, so the info might be outdated.

Celtics top 4 is supposedly (in no particular order) Jackson/Fultz/Tatum/Ball

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by 112288 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:48 pm

NY,

Thanks so much and Happy Fathers Day to you! Hope all is well at home and I am sure your son is into baseball by now....how is he doing!

Karen wishes everyone well. Are you headed to the Cape and when, perhaps we can meet in Chatham and have dinner.........perhaps we could even take Sally Dorr out as well. We will be on the Cape early August and then onto the Vineyard. If you are going sooner, we could do a couple of days in July as well. Cannot twist my arm too far to get me onto Cape Cod during summer! LOL

I'll call you this week to catchup as well on other things.

112288
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:36 pm

kdp59 wrote:Kicking a dead horse again here...My specialty.

but we DO NOT have cap space to sign ANY outside Free agents except those that can come from exceptions (mid level and Bi-annual).

I urge every Celtic fan to review the link below it lays out everything but the draft pick next week (which I think they will add once its made).

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

with our holds we are at $112.9M , the #3 pick hold will be something around $4M or so.

so we start the new NBA year (with no moves) at $16M OVER the cap.

Renouncing the rights to resign Amir gets us near the cap. And we cannot resign him for a year I believe is the rule.

renouncing Jerebko saves us $9.5M

Cutting Zeller saves us $8M

Renouncing Young saves us $2.8M

Then you have about $20M in space for an outside FA. While that may get you a player like Ibaka, it will NOT get you a Blake, Millsap or Hayward.

you have to renounce Kelly ($7.7M) to get near max dollars for one of the big dogs.

to get a second All-star  you will then have to trade/drop the cost of their salary form the roster, with players currently here.

enjoy!

Exactly, renounce all our own players, stash Yabba for another year, trade AB and Crowder to CHI....that gives us enough money to sign a big time FA. I had already said KO would have to go
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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by swish on Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:45 pm

NYCelt


The first pitch has just been thrown - and who knows what Danny and the other General Managers have up their sleeves over the next 9 innings. In about 5 weeks the pros will have had their say and the picture will be a lot clearer as speculation will have changed to reality.

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Re: DEAL IS DONE!! FULTZ TO PHILLY

Post by bobheckler on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:13 pm

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
13 hours ago
Pretty wild tidbit...Multiple sources told me when news of the trade broke last night, the Celtics hadn't even been told the deal was done
reply retweet like


bob
MY NOTE:  And they aren't holding a press conference until Monday.  I know Sunday is Father's Day and all but I get the feeling if they could have held off until Tuesday or even Wednesday they would have.  I real lack of excitement, almost reluctance, revealing a done deal.  Either this was supposed to be a draft day deal and Philly jumped the gun or it was done well before draft day on purpose in order to put other wheels in motion in time for draft day and Danny wanted a little more time.  Nothing else makes sense to me.  Why would Jackson deliberately NOT want to be #1 but will meet with us after he is sure he won't be?


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