WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

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WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by kdp59 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:25 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sources-phil-jackson-weighing-possibility-trading-kristaps-porzingis-155029676.html

Jackson will want a ransom, I bet he;ll want us to start with the #3 pick AND Jaylen or Bradley


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:32 pm



kdp,

Whoa, indeed!

#3 and #8, Phil, with Crowder thrown in. Picture it. You get a player you have said not pursuing was your biggest mistake, you get Jackson or Tatum and you get Markkanen.

We get that transcendental player Danny is looking for. Porzingis is only 21 years old.

Also, by getting Porzingis we don't need Love or Griffin, which means we can go for Hayward.


Horford
Zinger
Hayward
Bradley
IT

That's pretty frippin' good. If Bradley is gone, one way or another, then Smart or Jaylen steps up.

Gotta stop now, my salivary glands are trying to drown me.


bob


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by sinus007 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:35 pm

Hi,
What about 'Melo? The article doesn't mention him.

AK
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by kdp59 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:38 pm

no need to talk about him

# 3 pick and any one player Jackson wants, not named Thomas is good for me.

as Bob Said Danny could make enough moves to free up cap for another max player then

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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:41 pm

Jackson has always liked Crowder. I'd throw in a pick (not BKN) next year too for this kid. Total stud
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:42 pm

I would like to add, though, that I find it VERY hard to believe Phil would ever make a trade with us.
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by dboss on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:44 pm

Nobody knows what Phil will want but Danny has the assets to get in the mix. Also since he is till under a cheap contact it will not take a lot of players to make it happen. Pull out some draft picks Danny and make Phil an offer he cannot refuse.

Phil will want to include melo in any deal and that could be the ultimate deal killer

Zingas by himself is probably worth one of the Nets picks but NOT both of them. I would thrown in the #3 this year and maybe the recently acquired Lakers pick and maybe one other 1st round pick but NOT the 2018 Golden Egg.
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:46 pm

Red,

1.  I would include the Brooklyn pick.  What would we get from that pick?  A player better than Kristaps Porzingis?  Unlikely, and not without numerous years of development later.  By then IT and Horford are by the boards.

2.  Maybe Phil took notice of Danny trading #1 to Philly and is realizing it's all about getting your team where you want it to be and not about anybody else.  If you are the odds on favorite to play for a championship, like the way GSW and Cleveland are today, then who cares how good anybody else is?


bob


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:59 pm

bobheckler wrote:Red,

1.  I would include the Brooklyn pick.  What would we get from that pick?  A player better than Kristaps Porzingis?  Unlikely, and not without numerous years of development later.  By then IT and Horford are by the boards.

2.  Maybe Phil took notice of Danny trading #1 to Philly and is realizing it's all about getting your team where you want it to be and not about anybody else.  If you are the odds on favorite to play for a championship, like the way GSW and Cleveland are today, then who cares how good anybody else is?


bob


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I do see your point, Bob, but would you sell the farm for the kid? How many picks would you include?
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:10 pm

red16russ11 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Red,

1.  I would include the Brooklyn pick.  What would we get from that pick?  A player better than Kristaps Porzingis?  Unlikely, and not without numerous years of development later.  By then IT and Horford are by the boards.

2.  Maybe Phil took notice of Danny trading #1 to Philly and is realizing it's all about getting your team where you want it to be and not about anybody else.  If you are the odds on favorite to play for a championship, like the way GSW and Cleveland are today, then who cares how good anybody else is?  


bob


.

I do see your point, Bob, but would you sell the farm for the kid?  How many picks would you include?


Red,

I would sell the farm, the equipment on the farm and next year's harvest for this kid.  I would include as many draft picks as it would take.  Danny offered 4 picks for Justise Winslow.  Does anybody really think Porzingis isn't worth much more than that?

Look at what Danny gave for KG, and KG was already on his back 9.  Porzingis can be one of those players.  He is transcendental.  He is the NBA New World Order.  He is what last year's #4 pick Dragan Bender aspires to be and probably never will be.  Porzingis is the best player out of Europe since, who?  Tony Parker?  Dirk?  Both of them are going into the HOF.

In a game where 5 players consume about 65% of a regulation game's minutes there is no substitute for quality in those 5. Remember when Len Bias died? Red Auerbach was asked about how his loss would hurt the Celtics' chances the next season and Red said Bias' loss didn't hurt the Celtics' next season, it hurt us for the next 10 seasons. Kristaps Porzingis is Len Bias. He's the guy that, getting him at the still tender age of 21, is our next decade.

My biggest fear is not that we cannot or will not offer enough for him, it's that Phil will trade him to the Lakers. Not because they are the Lakers but because they have a lot of alluring pieces to offer him as well as the #2.


bob


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by wideclyde on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:10 pm

Sinus,

The article does not mention Anthony, but I would bet the ranch that if Jackson moves Porzingis that he demands that Anthony is attached to the trade if anyone can get Anthony to waive his no trade rights.

For the Cs this condition would not be a terrible idea as Porzingis is a franchise player who just happens to fit onto our roster at our greatest need.  Porzingis is a front line star player who is only going to continue to improve for another five or more years.  He just happens to fit our greatest needs much more than Butler, George or Hayward combined.  I can easily give up the #3 pick (and lots other picks, too) to get Porzingis.

Some thoughts on taking Anthony..  He will require a larger return of salaries. Crowder would not be enough to balance off a trade that had both Porzingis and Anthony in it, but Crowder, Zeller and Bradley might.  He will cost (salary) almost as much as a max player.

I very much like Crowder and Bradley, and don't like even thinking of trading both of them for a guy like Butler, but I could trade both guys for Porzingis.

Anthony is a gamble, but Porzingis is not.  However, Anthony is also another scorer which would make a Hayward type guy unnecessary for two years especially with Brown still on our roster.  He can be stretched after one year if he just does not work out. He is not too old to be able to contribute for two years even at a high salary. He already knows that the Boston franchise (top to bottom, inside and out) is much more stable than what is in NY with Jackson in charge.  He knows that he cannot 'wait out' Phil Jackson leaving the Knicks as phil just signed on for more years this past winter.  With all of that, he knows that there are zero championship opportunities coming his way playing for the Knicks at least in the next two years that he is under contract.

Coming to the Cs, he might be spurred to better performance with a 'championship' light flashing at the end of the tunnel.

As much as he seems so loyal to NYC's club life and parks to walk his dogs, I would not care if he even lived there as long as he is on time for practices and games for the Cs.


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by sinus007 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:13 pm

Hi,
I wonder if anyone else has more assets than Danny to offer for Porzingis?

AK
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by sinus007 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:20 pm

Wideclyde,
That's why I asked the question about 'Melo. Because before all rumors about Porzingis trade included 'Melo.

IMHO, it's a big, fat YES to Porzingis but a bigger and fatter NO to 'Melo.

AK
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:21 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I wonder if anyone else has more assets than Danny to offer for Porzingis?

AK

Bob is worried about the Lakers, and I think with good reason. #2 and a combo of players, including Russell...............we better step it up!
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:22 pm

bobheckler wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Red,

1.  I would include the Brooklyn pick.  What would we get from that pick?  A player better than Kristaps Porzingis?  Unlikely, and not without numerous years of development later.  By then IT and Horford are by the boards.

2.  Maybe Phil took notice of Danny trading #1 to Philly and is realizing it's all about getting your team where you want it to be and not about anybody else.  If you are the odds on favorite to play for a championship, like the way GSW and Cleveland are today, then who cares how good anybody else is?  


bob


.

I do see your point, Bob, but would you sell the farm for the kid?  How many picks would you include?


Red,

I would sell the farm, the equipment on the farm and next year's harvest for this kid.  I would include as many draft picks as it would take.  Danny offered 4 picks for Justise Winslow.  Does anybody really think Porzingis isn't worth much more than that?

Look at what Danny gave for KG, and KG was already on his back 9.  Porzingis can be one of those players.  He is transcendental.  He is the NBA New World Order.  He is what last year's #4 pick Dragan Bender aspires to be and probably never will be.  Porzingis is the best player out of Europe since, who?  Tony Parker?  Dirk?  Both of them are going into the HOF.

In a game where 5 players consume about 65% of a regulation game's minutes there is no substitute for quality in those 5. Remember when Len Bias died? Red Auerbach was asked about how his loss would hurt the Celtics' chances the next season and Red said Bias' loss didn't hurt the Celtics' next season, it hurt us for the next 10 seasons. Kristaps Porzingis is Len Bias. He's the guy that, getting him at the still tender age of 21, is our next decade.

My biggest fear is not that we cannot or will not offer enough for him, it's that Phil will trade him to the Lakers. Not because they are the Lakers but because they have a lot of alluring pieces to offer him as well as the #2.


bob


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I love the kid, bob, but I have a feeling it's all smoke. I would sell the farm, too.
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by fierce on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:24 pm

That's why I said something bigger is in the works.

Ainge will not settle for Josh Jackson.

I would have traded the #1 pick for Porzingis.
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by kdp59 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:28 pm

wide you may be correct and Jackson knows the only way to move Melo is by attaching Porzingis to him in the deal. Thus the article.

if so, we are one of only a couple teams that can have the assets and matching salary to make it work.

Melo and Porzinis account for almost $30M in salarys (not including any trade kickers they may have).

sending Braldey, Crowder, Zeller and the #3 pick account for about $28M or so.
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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:31 pm

red16russ11 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
red16russ11 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Red,

1.  I would include the Brooklyn pick.  What would we get from that pick?  A player better than Kristaps Porzingis?  Unlikely, and not without numerous years of development later.  By then IT and Horford are by the boards.

2.  Maybe Phil took notice of Danny trading #1 to Philly and is realizing it's all about getting your team where you want it to be and not about anybody else.  If you are the odds on favorite to play for a championship, like the way GSW and Cleveland are today, then who cares how good anybody else is?  


bob


.

I do see your point, Bob, but would you sell the farm for the kid?  How many picks would you include?


Red,

I would sell the farm, the equipment on the farm and next year's harvest for this kid.  I would include as many draft picks as it would take.  Danny offered 4 picks for Justise Winslow.  Does anybody really think Porzingis isn't worth much more than that?

Look at what Danny gave for KG, and KG was already on his back 9.  Porzingis can be one of those players.  He is transcendental.  He is the NBA New World Order.  He is what last year's #4 pick Dragan Bender aspires to be and probably never will be.  Porzingis is the best player out of Europe since, who?  Tony Parker?  Dirk?  Both of them are going into the HOF.

In a game where 5 players consume about 65% of a regulation game's minutes there is no substitute for quality in those 5.  Remember when Len Bias died?  Red Auerbach was asked about how his loss would hurt the Celtics' chances the next season and Red said Bias' loss didn't hurt the Celtics' next season, it hurt us for the next 10 seasons.  Kristaps Porzingis is Len Bias.  He's the guy that, getting him at the still tender age of 21, is our next decade.

My biggest fear is not that we cannot or will not offer enough for him, it's that Phil will trade him to the Lakers.  Not because they are the Lakers but because they have a lot of alluring pieces to offer him as well as the #2.    


bob


.



I love the kid, bob, but I have a feeling it's all smoke.  I would sell the farm, too.


Red,

If Porzingis was in this year's draft he would be the #1 pick.  Not Markelle Fultz.  Not Lonzo Ball.  Not Josh Jackson.  Kristaps Porzingis.  Think people on this board and around the NBA were aghast when we traded the rights to Fultz for the #3 and a future likely lottery pick, even a high one?  Imagine if we had Porzingis and traded him for any of those three players and a future draft pick?  Celtic fans would be in the streets with pitchforks and torches for Danny.  It's that big of a difference.  So, if Porzingis is head-and-shoulders better than any pick in this draft (no pun intended) why wouldn't we pay head-and-shoulders more for him?  Value for value.


bob


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by wideclyde on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:33 pm

AK,

I can see your point regarding Anthony and I would not (and have written such on other threads) want him by himself either.

But, Anthony WITH Porzingis is much more palatable even with having to toss in Bradley, Crowder and additional picks because Porzingis could very well be the transcendental player (as Bob said) we have been missing for a very long time.

Getting Anthony would be a gamble, but if he buys in he can still play and score. If he is a problem,
he can be send down the 'stretch' road after only one year.

I believe that if he comes to Boston with a championship within reach that he buys in and gives us two good years.

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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by wideclyde on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:44 pm

Bob,

I just checked the Lakers roster and picks and I do not think that they have a better case to get Porzingis than the Celtics do. At least, I would not take what the Lakers have over what we can give them. Crowder and Bradley star over any players the Lakers have to offer in my opinion due to their ages and the fact that they are both young team leaders who have already succeeded in the NBA.

I also think that we would be more willing to take Anthony in the deal where the Lakers seem to be much too young to want him just like we were too young to take him three years ago.

Since Phil has just been dumped by Jeannie there might not be too many good feelings between them these days that could possibly have swung a trade with them.

I loved your thought of Celtics fans trying to chase down Ainge if he had traded the #1 when Porzingis could have been that #1. I would have driven up there to Massachusetts (with my Friday morning breakfast club guys) to join in on such a search. We would have brought along our own pitch forks, too.

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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:45 pm

kdp59 wrote:wide you may be correct and Jackson knows the only way to move Melo is by attaching Porzingis to him in the deal. Thus the article.

if so, we are one of only a couple teams that can have the assets and matching salary to make it work.

Melo and Porzinis account for almost $30M in salarys (not including any trade kickers they may have).

sending Braldey, Crowder, Zeller and the #3 pick account for about $28M or so.


kdp,

He won't want Zeller.  Maybe a sign-and-trade for Kelly, which is fine too.  And I cannot see it only being this year's #3.

Danny has 9-10 first round picks in the next 5 years.  That's about where he was 4 years ago when he made the trade with Brooklyn.
He has been accumulating them, and maintaining salary cap flexibility, specifically so he could jump on opportunities, like this, when they come along.  He has flat-out said that in those words.  I can't remember which opportunity he cited when he bemoaned his lack of the prerequisite assets to make the deal, but he said that he would have pulled the trigger if he could have and started to change his asset accumulation strategy to fit that.  A shot at this kind of talent is exactly, precisely why he has been doing it.

We started a thread that asked board members to vote on Love vs Griffin.  If the choice was Love vs Porzingis I'd be willing to bet Porzingis would win in a shutout.  Kevin Love is a 4x All-Star, 2x All-NBA 2nd teamer and NBA rebounding leader in 2011, the NBA 3pt shooting champion in 2012 and a World Champion.  He's only 28 years old. Still in his prime, and yet well-seasoned.  

And my money says he'd get shut out.

Take my money, Phil. Take my money.


bob


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:49 pm

wideclyde wrote:Bob,

I just checked the Lakers roster and picks and I do not think that they have a better case to get Porzingis than the Celtics do.  At least, I would not take what the Lakers have over what we can give them.  Crowder and Bradley star over any players the Lakers have to offer in my opinion due to their ages and the fact that they are both young team leaders who have already succeeded in the NBA.  

I also think that we would be more willing to take Anthony in the deal where the Lakers seem to be much too young to want him just like we were too young to take him three years ago.

Since Phil has just been dumped by Jeannie there might not be too many good feelings between them these days that could possibly have swung a trade with them.

I loved your thought of Celtics fans trying to chase down Ainge if he had traded the #1 when Porzingis could have been that #1.  I would have driven up there to Massachusetts (with my Friday morning breakfast club guys) to join in on such a search.  We would have brought along our own pitch forks, too.


clyde,

Suppose we helped him find a girlfriend? Rumors are the 55 year old Jeanie Buss and 46 year old Jay Mohr are dating. Hopefully that sticks in his craw. Maybe we should spam his inbox with pics of the two of them.


bob


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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by wideclyde on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:55 pm

AK,

I can see your point regarding Anthony and I would not (and have written such on other threads) want him by himself either.

But, Anthony WITH Porzingis is much more palatable even with having to toss in Bradley, Crowder and additional picks because Porzingis could very well be the transcendental player (as Bob said) we have been missing for a very long time.

Getting Anthony would be a gamble, but if he buys in he can still play and score. If he is a problem,
he can be send down the 'stretch' road after only one year.

I believe that if he comes to Boston with a championship within reach that he buys in and gives us two good years.

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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:07 pm

wideclyde wrote:AK,

I can see your point regarding Anthony and I would not (and have written such on other threads) want him by himself either.

But, Anthony WITH Porzingis is much more palatable even with having to toss in Bradley, Crowder and additional picks because Porzingis could very well be the transcendental player (as Bob said) we have been missing for a very long time.

Getting Anthony would be a gamble, but if he buys in he can still play and score.  If he is a problem,
he can be send down the 'stretch' road after only one year.

I believe that if he comes to Boston with a championship within reach that he buys in and gives us two good years.


clyde,

If taking Anthony was the poison pill in this deal I would take it, the same way we took the Gerald Wallace poison pill. Yeah, I know that Melo will make almost as much money in a single year ($26M and $28M) as Wallace's entire contract ($10M x 3 years) but Porzingis a bird-in-the-hand. Danny needed a year to get rid of most of the players we got in that trade and kept Wallace around for 3 and Wallace had nothing left in his tank. Melo can still play. I'm not saying he has to start, I'm not saying he gets anymore minutes than Gerald Green got last year (although he will) but he can still light'em up.


bob

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Re: WOAH>>>>>>>GAME CHANGER? Porzingis available

Post by sinus007 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Hi,
I'm still not sold on 'Melo as a poison pill Danny has to swallow to get Porzingis. IMHO, 'Melo is a diva who'd want, no matter who and where, to be in the front and if he's not there he'll become so petulant that it'd cripple the whole team.
Also, I don't think that they, KP+'Melo, can bring us onto contending level.
And to bring them to Boston Danny will have to part with a lot of valuable assets.

AK
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