The Jimmy Butler Thread

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The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:40 pm

The word is that he's gone and the likely destinations are Cleveland or Boston.


http://nesn.com/2017/06/nba-rumors-either-celtics-cavs-will-acquire-jimmy-butler-boston-had-offer-rejected/



NBA Rumors: Either Celtics, Cavs Will Acquire Jimmy Butler; Boston Had Offer Rejected



by Cameron McDonough


on Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 6:29PM



The NBA offseason already has more rumors swirling around than a high school hallway, and one of the main topics has been Chicago Bulls star Jimmy Butler.

Butler long has been a subject of trade rumors, so the past few days have been nothing new. But the Bulls now actively are shopping the All-Star, according to CSN Chicago’s Vincent Goodwill, citing multiple sources, and one NBA executive even told the website, “It’s either Boston or Cleveland, but he’s going.”

Goodwill added that the C’s have offered the Bulls the No. 3 overall pick, which it acquired along with a future first-rounder from the Philadelphia 76ers for the No. 1 selection in the 2017 NBA Draft, for Butler, but they rejected the offer. And there have been multiple rumors recently linking Butler to the Cavs.

So, it appears Butler will cost more than one first-round pick, which isn’t much of a surprise.



bob
MY NOTE: If I had to pick Butler or Porzingis I'd take Porzingis. So, if Chicago doesn't want our #3 for Butler, that's ok, offer it to Phil.

Holy Shit, this offseason has been exciting...




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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by dboss on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:54 pm

Things are certainly very fluid. The latest piece certainly indicates that Boston has interest in Bultler. However it sounds like his preference is to go to the Cavs.

I have not seen anything about Boston having an interest in Kevin Love but the Cavs would have to move him in order to get Butler.

I hope we sit on the sidelines and just watch the dumpster fire burn itself out.

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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:11 am

David Aldridge ✔ @daldridgetnt
Per source, Jimmy Butler has informed Cavs that he wants to stay in Chicago rather than be traded to Cleveland.
5:38 PM - 20 Jun 2017
 6,510 6,510 Retweets   8,969 8,969 likes




Report: Celtics turned down Bulls’ trade offer of Jimmy Butler for No. 3 pick in draft: Chicago went to Boston and offered Butler for the No. 3 pick of the 2017 NBA draft. It was a straight-up offer with nothing else attached. Reportedly, the Celtics said no to the offer. (CBS Boston)



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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:22 am

bobheckler wrote:David Aldridge ✔ @daldridgetnt
Per source, Jimmy Butler has informed Cavs that he wants to stay in Chicago rather than be traded to Cleveland.
5:38 PM - 20 Jun 2017
 6,510 6,510 Retweets   8,969 8,969 likes




Report: Celtics turned down Bulls’ trade offer of Jimmy Butler for No. 3 pick in draft: Chicago went to Boston and offered Butler for the No. 3 pick of the 2017 NBA draft. It was a straight-up offer with nothing else attached. Reportedly, the Celtics said no to the offer. (CBS Boston)



bob


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iF that is true Danny is nuts, but so is the GM at Chicago. has to be more players/assets going back to the Bulls,

hell that trade doesn't work in anyones cap world!!

on another note D. Wade just picked up his player option with the Bulls for next year, so they don't need a SG for another year (well they do because Wade is a broken down old man now)
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:56 am

kdp59 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:David Aldridge ✔ @daldridgetnt
Per source, Jimmy Butler has informed Cavs that he wants to stay in Chicago rather than be traded to Cleveland.
5:38 PM - 20 Jun 2017
 6,510 6,510 Retweets   8,969 8,969 likes




Report: Celtics turned down Bulls’ trade offer of Jimmy Butler for No. 3 pick in draft: Chicago went to Boston and offered Butler for the No. 3 pick of the 2017 NBA draft. It was a straight-up offer with nothing else attached. Reportedly, the Celtics said no to the offer. (CBS Boston)



bob


.


iF that is true Danny is nuts, but so is the GM at Chicago. has to be more players/assets going back to the Bulls,

hell that trade doesn't work in anyones cap world!!

on another note D. Wade just picked up his player option with the Bulls for next year, so they don't need a SG for another year (well they do because Wade is a broken down old man now)


kdp,

That, DWade picking up his $23.8M option, hurts Chicago significantly.  They DO need a SG, precisely because DWade is almost done (if not already).  Between DWade,  Butler, Lopez and Rondo that's almost $70M in 4 players.  It doesn't help them to trim around the edges because their edges are cheap and they are going to have to find players to replace them.


bob


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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by wideclyde on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

I read about the Cs turning down Butler for just the #3 pick last night, and didn't believe it then.  Today, I still do not understand it any better than I did last night.

First, I do not understand how a $17M contract player can be traded with ZERO return salaries. Second, if such a trade could be made why are there never any trades made - a player (of any salary) for just a draft pick?  Third, if such a trade could be made how could Danny Ainge turn down and opportunity to get a player that they have been looking at for a couple of years for only one draft pick.

This guy is not my favorite NBA player, but he is going to be able to contribute more in the next two years than anyone the Cs pick tomorrow with the third overall pick.  Plus, as much as I like Bradley and Crowder, getting Butler for only the #3 pick would allow Ainge to use either of these players with some of the many other draft picks they have for another top level player or two.

Even if Butler would rather play in Cleveland, if he is traded to Boston he will play hard in Boston for the duration of the rest of his contract (two years) as he just would be an idiot to build a reputation of being a malcontent and an undesirable kind of guy.  Risking the chance to sign (if he acts up or pouts) the giant contract that awaits him at the end of his current contract would be pretty stupid.

I hope that this situation gets some more attention so that the missing info can be produced.

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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by tjmakz on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:38 pm

wideclyde wrote:I read about the Cs turning down Butler for just the #3 pick last night, and didn't believe it then.  Today, I still do not understand it any better than I did last night.

First, I do not understand how a $17M contract player can be traded with ZERO return salaries. Second, if such a trade could be made why are there never any trades made - a player (of any salary) for just a draft pick?  Third, if such a trade could be made how could Danny Ainge turn down and opportunity to get a player that they have been looking at for a couple of years for only one draft pick.

This guy is not my favorite NBA player, but he is going to be able to contribute more in the next two years than anyone the Cs pick tomorrow with the third overall pick.  Plus, as much as I like Bradley and Crowder, getting Butler for only the #3 pick would allow Ainge to use either of these players with some of the many other draft picks they have for another top level player or two.

Even if Butler would rather play in Cleveland, if he is traded to Boston he will play hard in Boston for the duration of the rest of his contract (two years) as he just would be an idiot to build a reputation of being a malcontent and an undesirable kind of guy.  Risking the chance to sign (if he acts up or pouts) the giant contract that awaits him at the end of his current contract would be pretty stupid.

I hope that this situation gets some more attention so that the missing info can be produced.

Boston could trade the #3 pick for Butler with no other players involved.
But, this would have to be done on 7/1 or later.
Boston would absorb Butler's contract into their salary cap space.
If Chicago would trade Butler for the #3, surely they would trade him for the #2 or #1 pick.
I have a hard time believing Philly would turn that trade down.
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by wideclyde on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:01 pm

tjmakz,

So the Cs could pick Jackson for the Bulls and then just trade him to Chicago on July 1?

If this is the case then I really wonder why Ainge decided not to make this trade.

Waiting a week to have Butler on your roster does not seem to be a long time to wait one week for.

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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:02 pm

tjmakz wrote:
wideclyde wrote:I read about the Cs turning down Butler for just the #3 pick last night, and didn't believe it then.  Today, I still do not understand it any better than I did last night.

First, I do not understand how a $17M contract player can be traded with ZERO return salaries. Second, if such a trade could be made why are there never any trades made - a player (of any salary) for just a draft pick?  Third, if such a trade could be made how could Danny Ainge turn down and opportunity to get a player that they have been looking at for a couple of years for only one draft pick.

This guy is not my favorite NBA player, but he is going to be able to contribute more in the next two years than anyone the Cs pick tomorrow with the third overall pick.  Plus, as much as I like Bradley and Crowder, getting Butler for only the #3 pick would allow Ainge to use either of these players with some of the many other draft picks they have for another top level player or two.

Even if Butler would rather play in Cleveland, if he is traded to Boston he will play hard in Boston for the duration of the rest of his contract (two years) as he just would be an idiot to build a reputation of being a malcontent and an undesirable kind of guy.  Risking the chance to sign (if he acts up or pouts) the giant contract that awaits him at the end of his current contract would be pretty stupid.

I hope that this situation gets some more attention so that the missing info can be produced.

Boston could trade the #3 pick for Butler with no other players involved.
But, this would have to be done on 7/1 or later.
Boston would absorb Butler's contract into their salary cap space.
If Chicago would trade Butler for the #3, surely they would trade him for the #2 or #1 pick.
I have a hard time believing Philly would turn that trade down.


sorry TJ,

But no the celtics cannot add more salarys due to holds on their cap that go into effect at the new NBA year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

I figure soon enough everyone here will have this website bookmarked, LOL.

we are around $118M in cap space WITH all holds.( and the #3 pick, not shown yet in that link) so we are limited in how much salary we can take back in any trade. I believe its around 115% of what we send out ( but i may be off on that #).

now Danny CAN clear up enough room to trade #3 for Butler straight up :
renounce Amir, Jerebko and Young gets us to about $12M UNDER the cap. that may be close with trading #3 ( $5M?) for Butler ( $18.6M).

Probably still need to dump Zeller and his $8M non guaranteed deal to get it done.
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by tjmakz on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:09 pm

kdp59 wrote:
tjmakz wrote:
wideclyde wrote:I read about the Cs turning down Butler for just the #3 pick last night, and didn't believe it then.  Today, I still do not understand it any better than I did last night.

First, I do not understand how a $17M contract player can be traded with ZERO return salaries. Second, if such a trade could be made why are there never any trades made - a player (of any salary) for just a draft pick?  Third, if such a trade could be made how could Danny Ainge turn down and opportunity to get a player that they have been looking at for a couple of years for only one draft pick.

This guy is not my favorite NBA player, but he is going to be able to contribute more in the next two years than anyone the Cs pick tomorrow with the third overall pick.  Plus, as much as I like Bradley and Crowder, getting Butler for only the #3 pick would allow Ainge to use either of these players with some of the many other draft picks they have for another top level player or two.

Even if Butler would rather play in Cleveland, if he is traded to Boston he will play hard in Boston for the duration of the rest of his contract (two years) as he just would be an idiot to build a reputation of being a malcontent and an undesirable kind of guy.  Risking the chance to sign (if he acts up or pouts) the giant contract that awaits him at the end of his current contract would be pretty stupid.

I hope that this situation gets some more attention so that the missing info can be produced.

Boston could trade the #3 pick for Butler with no other players involved.
But, this would have to be done on 7/1 or later.
Boston would absorb Butler's contract into their salary cap space.
If Chicago would trade Butler for the #3, surely they would trade him for the #2 or #1 pick.
I have a hard time believing Philly would turn that trade down.


sorry TJ,

But no the celtics cannot add more salarys due to holds on their cap that go into effect at the new NBA year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

I figure soon enough everyone here  will have this website bookmarked, LOL.

we are around $118M in cap space WITH all holds.( and the #3 pick, not shown yet in that link) so we are limited in how much salary we can take back in any trade. I believe its around 115% of what we send out ( but i may be off on that #).

now Danny CAN clear up enough room to trade #3 for Butler straight up  :
renounce Amir, Jerebko and Young gets us to about $12M UNDER the cap. that may be close with trading #3 ( $5M?) for Butler ( $18.6M).

Probably still need to dump Zeller and his $8M non guaranteed deal to get it done.

Yes, Boston has some work to do to be able to absorb Butler's contract.
I thought that was kind of obvious to all here.
They would have to renounce Amir, Jerebko, Young and waive Zeller.
Those will probably be done on 7/1 anyway.
If Boston renounces all cap holds except Kelly and waives Zeller and Mickey, they are at about $65m in salary.
Taking on Butler's contract would be no problem.
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm

If Boston renounces all cap holds except Kelly and waives Zeller and Mickey, they are at about $65m in salary.

I wish!!!


we start at $16M OVER the cap with all holds , I add the #3 pick at about $5M since it is not shown yet.

renouncing those players (with their cap holds)

Amir- (15.6M)
Jerebko- (9.5M)
Young - (2.8M)

that only gets us under the cap about $12M, or at about $89M in salary.

Zellers deal is $8M...that sets us up at $20M under or at $81M in salary or so.

I wish that did get us near to $65M in total salary. There are still articles written saying the Celtics can outright sign TWO all-star players....they are wrong, even trading Crowder and Bradley to teams with cap space for future draft picks only nets us an additional $15.6M in space.

your lakers are in better shape however:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by tjmakz on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Here's the Celtics salaries next year.
Let's assume Zeller, Amir, Young, and Jonas are off of the books.

Horford $27.7m
Bradley $8.8m
Olynyk $7.7m cap hold
Crowder $6.8m
IT $6.2m
Brown $5.0m
Smart $4.5m
Rozier $2.0m
Mickey $1.5m
Jackson $1.4m

Total $71.6m

If we add in Yabu and Zizic, Boston is about $75.6m.
This is about $26m under the salary cap, but it doesn't include the $5m for the 1st round draft pick which would be going to Chicago.
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by swish on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:27 pm

And I wouldn't be surprised if Danny was also trying to peddle Bradley and his 8.8 mil salary in any future deals - allowing even more space below the cap.

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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:36 pm

Steve Bulpett: There’s Jimmy Butler talk happening, but, according to multiple sources here, it doesn’t include the Celtics. Hasn’t for a while. 17 mins ago – via Twitter SteveBHoop


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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by bobheckler on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:31 am

Danny Ainge said in a phone interview today that we were "never close" on getting Butler.

He also said he thought that Minny "gave up a lot" to get Butler because last year they turned down LaVine and Dunn for Butler and this year they gave up LaVine, Dunn and Markkanen. Never heard about this offer until now. Interesting.

Anyway, at least we can stop talking about Jimmy Butler for a while.


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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by kdp59 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:12 am

bobheckler wrote:Danny Ainge said in a phone interview today that we were "never close" on getting Butler.

He also said he thought that Minny "gave up a lot" to get Butler because last year they turned down LaVine and Dunn for Butler and this year they gave up LaVine, Dunn and Markkanen.  Never heard about this offer until now.  Interesting.

Anyway, at least we can stop talking about Jimmy Butler for a while.


bob


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yes, you're all glad I am not the GM for sure!!

I was going all in with Bradley, Crowder, #3 pick and another first for Butler and #16.

obviously, I was greatly over-rating Butler and that kind of trade would have gotten me fired sooner than Later I suppose!!.

Shocked

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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by KyleCleric on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:16 am

2 lottery prospects and a young scorer/star. It's a nice starting off point for a rebuild. Did need to give up a mid-1st as well.

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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by red16russ11 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:33 am

MIN will be in the playoffs this year - barring injury.....my sole prediction!
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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by bobheckler on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:38 am

There will be questions, for years, about whether Danny blew it by taking Tatum instead of Fultz.  I think the real question is "did Danny blow it by not trading Jayson Tatum, plus a player or two, for Jimmy Butler?".

Jimmy Butler is only 28.  If he continues to play as he has been playing so far he is likely on track to the HOF.  Can we say that about any player on the Celtics today, including Jayson Tatum?  No.  The longstanding rule of thumb in the NBA is that whomever gets the best player in a trade, wins.  If Jimmy Butler is one of the top 10 players in the NBA and nobody we have is higher than that, then Danny would have won that trade if he had made it, but he didn't.

Jayson Tatum might be a future all-star, he might kick the snot out of Markelle Fultz, but if he doesn't become one of the top 10 players in the NBA then Danny blew it.


bob


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Re: The Jimmy Butler Thread

Post by dboss on Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:31 pm

bobheckler wrote:There will be questions, for years, about whether Danny blew it by taking Tatum instead of Fultz.  I think the real question is "did Danny blow it by not trading Jayson Tatum, plus a player or two, for Jimmy Butler?".

Jimmy Butler is only 28.  If he continues to play as he has been playing so far he is likely on track to the HOF.  Can we say that about any player on the Celtics today, including Jayson Tatum?  No.  The longstanding rule of thumb in the NBA is that whomever gets the best player in a trade, wins.  If Jimmy Butler is one of the top 10 players in the NBA and nobody we have is higher than that, then Danny would have won that trade if he had made it, but he didn't.

Jayson Tatum might be a future all-star, he might kick the snot out of Markelle Fultz, but if he doesn't become one of the top 10 players in the NBA then Danny blew it.


bob


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I agree that there will be future debate about this but it will not just be about Fultz vs tatum or even #3 plus unknown players for Butler.

Danny was able to get the player he wanted in addition to a future #1 that will likely be a top 10 pick. We have Tatum and we have no idea of who the next pick might be. It could get traded.

Tatum does not have to be a top 10 player. There is so much more involved here. In the end the trade will be judged by what we ended up with.

I was never an advocate for getting Butler so I am thrilled that DA was smart enough to pass on him. I also do not think that Minny will make the playoffs. In the end everything looks bright for Boston. With Butler gone Chicago becomes a team on the rebuild.
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