Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

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Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by gyso on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:20 am

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/7/1/15907324/paul-george-trade-pacers-what-about-the-celtics

Danny Ainge reportedly offered a much better deal for Paul George than did the Thunder. It’s not his fault Indiana passed.

by Tom Ziller@teamziller Jul 1, 2017, 12:57am EDT

The Pacers traded Paul George to the Thunder, and everyone is wondering why Danny Ainge and the Celtics couldn’t seal the deal. This has been a recurring theme for Celtics over the past two seasons as Boston has risen from second-tier playoff squad to No. 1 seed. Yet, Ainge has hoarded a horde of premium draft picks and prospects and can’t seem to turn them into a true superstar on the market.

Below the surface, it’s clear that the Celtics’ failure to strike isn’t for lack of trying. ESPN’s Jeff Goodman reported that Ainge offered Indiana three non-premium picks, Jae Crowder, and another Celtics starter (presumed to be Avery Bradley) for George during the draft. Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald independently reported the same, and added that the Celtics made an even better offer at the February deadline: a 2017 pick swap that involved Brooklyn’s selection, which became No. 1 overall.

Larry Bird ran the Pacers in February. He should have taken that deal from the Celtics. Kevin Pritchard ran the Pacers on draft night. He should have taken the Celtics’ offer.

Victor Oladipo is a nice young player, and Domantas Sabonis is a well-regarded prospect. But the chance to nab multiple first-round picks, one of the best contracts in the NBA in Crowder, and a high-character stopgap guard in Bradley is better under every scenario.

If you’re rebuilding, those picks are better assets than Sabonis, who struggled as a rookie. (This is to say nothing of how Markelle freaking Fultz would have helped your rebuild along.)

If you’re retooling while hoping to remain competitive, Crowder and Bradley will be much more help than Oladipo, a 25-year-old who will earn about 20 percent of the salary cap over the next four years. Crowder in particular is highly underrated: he’s a 26-year-old solid two-way starting wing who will make no more than seven percent of the salary cap through 2020.

Unless there were usurious protections on the pick swap Ainge reportedly offered the Pacers in February, Bird committed basketball malpractice by hanging onto George at the deadline. The Pacers were in no man’s land in the East, and only made the playoffs because of a Lance Stephenson inspired winning streak. (Anything goes in 2017.)

In those playoffs, the Pacers were bounced in four by the Cavaliers. Bird stared a gift horse in the mouth, and eventually resigned.

Pritchard’s mistake isn’t quite as egregious. There’s a minor cult around Sabonis despite his shooting less than 40 percent as a big man after two years of college play. Oladipo has stung NBA decision-makers with Cupid’s arrow before.

In a vacuum, it’s not a horrid return. It’s not Buddy Hield and a protected first. It’s not Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine, and a mid-lottery pick swap. In a vacuum, it’s defensible. Once we know what the Pacers turned down, however, it gets real ugly.

This is why faulting the Celtics isn’t fair. Ainge did everything he could reasonably do to outbid the Thunder for Paul George. He offered the 2017 Brooklyn pick in a swap at the deadline. He offered three firsts and two solid players on good, unobtrusive contracts more recently. The Celtics offered the better deals in both instances.

Ainge didn’t offer one of the premium picks the Celtics control, like Brooklyn’s 2018 pick, or the protected Lakers 2018/Kings 2019 pick. (We should start calling it the Sauce Castillo Special for simplicity’s sake.) Why was Ainge reluctant? Look at what Indiana ended up taking for George! Boston would have been bidding against itself to offer either of those high-quality picks.

Ask yourself whether it would be responsible to offer Brooklyn’s 2018 pick and Crowder for Oladipo and Sabonis. That would be highway robbery worthy of league intervention. And that tells you that Ainge was right to not include one of those premium picks.

Boston made a highly reasonable offer. Some will complain that it’s time for Ainge to make unreasonably generous offers to land that superstar. That’s not what got the Celtics here. Being rash and giving into pressure of the moment didn’t get Ainge or the Celtics to a No. 1 seed and a No. 1 pick in the same year. Sanity, patience, and smarts did.

The Celtics can’t make the Pacers or anyone else take the objectively better deal. That may have been the case in other trade derbies (such as Jimmy Butler), and it may apply in future negotiations. Just because Boston has so many ridiculously sweet assets to deal doesn’t mean Ainge can afford to bid against himself just to pull off a deal. The trade market, for whatever reason, isn’t acting rationally about the Celtics. It takes great discipline not to get really wild and succumb to the pressure.

Luckily, Ainge feels little pressure. He has a top-flight team with top-flight assets in his cupboard. He didn’t land Paul George. He didn’t land Jimmy Butler. Yet all evidence indicates that it’s through no lack of trying.

You can’t blame the Boston Celtics for the foolish decisions of other teams, no matter how attractive that may seem.

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:33 am

yeah...no where does it say what Danny offered NOW.

if anyone thinks that the Pacers GM took LESS of a deal (in his perspective) because he doesn't like Danny, you've just got yuor in Danny we trust goggles on.

Danny offered LESS than what the Pacers got NOW, or we will see the Pacers owner FIRING his GM/President.

get real.

I wasn't all in on getting George without an extension. But when you see what it cost to get Butler and George...Danny simply CHOKED on his hoard of assets.

I sure hope it pans out.
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by gyso on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:42 am

kdp,

as it says above,

ESPN’s Jeff Goodman reported that Ainge offered Indiana three non-premium picks, Jae Crowder, and another Celtics starter (presumed to be Avery Bradley) for George during the draft.

Fair deal (and better than OKC's). He does leave out the part where Bradley's contract is expiring, that takes away a bit from his argument, IMO.

gyso

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by fierce on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:43 am

It would've been a bad deal for the Celts if Ainge got George and George leaves for L.A. next summer.

I think Ainge made the right choice.

Celts are still on target to make the Finals in 2020.
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by worcester on Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:07 am

No news is good news.
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by kdp59 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:10 am

gyso wrote:kdp,

as it says above,

ESPN’s Jeff Goodman reported that Ainge offered Indiana three non-premium picks, Jae Crowder, and another Celtics starter (presumed to be Avery Bradley) for George during the draft.

Fair deal (and better than OKC's).  He does leave out the part where Bradley's contract is expiring, that takes away a bit from his argument, IMO.

gyso

OK..so YOU are the owner of the Pacers.

this report comes out...you ask the GM/President (whoever is the decision maker there) if its true. He says yes....what would you do. As a 28 year business owner, i know what I would do.

sorry, the story doesn't smell true to me UNLESS The Pacers felt the what they got was better.

NO ONE will take a lesser deal, in their eyes....no one.

sorry.
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by dboss on Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:13 am

worcester wrote:No news is good news.

Too bad we do not have enough wings on this team. (big lie)

I am very very happy no deal was made for George.

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by gyso on Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:22 am

kdp59 wrote:
gyso wrote:kdp,

as it says above,

ESPN’s Jeff Goodman reported that Ainge offered Indiana three non-premium picks, Jae Crowder, and another Celtics starter (presumed to be Avery Bradley) for George during the draft.

Fair deal (and better than OKC's).  He does leave out the part where Bradley's contract is expiring, that takes away a bit from his argument, IMO.

gyso

OK..so YOU are the owner of the Pacers.

this report comes out...you ask the GM/President (whoever is the decision maker there) if its true. He says yes....what would you do. As a 28 year business owner, i know what I would do.

sorry, the story doesn't smell true to me UNLESS The Pacers felt the what they got was better.

NO ONE will take a lesser deal, in their eyes....no one.

sorry.

We will never really know the actual facts, only what is reported. So all we are left with is reading what is presented and forming our own opinions.

One thing I do know. With the huge egos of the owners of sports teams, there is a lot more to any transaction than mere dollars and sense. Pun intended.

gyso

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:17 pm

Per NBA channel, Pritchard did not want to make a deal with Danny, period. He did not want George in the Eastern Division. Plus, he did not want to be another notch in DA's belt.  Remember, he made the great deciision to draft Oden over Durant. That was a smart move. He is very cautious now about what will potentially ruin his rep from now on..
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:21 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Per NBA channel, Pritchard did not want to make a deal with Danny, period. He did not want George in the Eastern Division. Plus, he did not want to be another notch in DA's belt.  Remember, he made the great deciision to draft Oden over Durant. That was a smart move. He is very cautious now about what will potentially ruin his rep from now on..


Rosalie,

"he did not want to be another notch in DA's belt."

Danny is the Red of his era. All his peers are terrified of getting "Ainged". The good news is "he's ours". The bad news is that nobody wants to do business with the Celtics if that means doing business with Ainge.


bob


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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:29 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Per NBA channel, Pritchard did not want to make a deal with Danny, period. He did not want George in the Eastern Division. Plus, he did not want to be another notch in DA's belt.  Remember, he made the great deciision to draft Oden over Durant. That was a smart move. He is very cautious now about what will potentially ruin his rep from now on..

If that's true, then I entirely agree with kdp59 - the gm should be fired.

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by ginoc on Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:53 pm

kdp59 wrote:yeah...no where does it say what Danny offered NOW.

if anyone thinks that the Pacers GM took LESS of a deal (in his perspective) because he doesn't like Danny, you've just got yuor in Danny we trust goggles on.

Danny offered LESS than what the Pacers got NOW, or we will see the Pacers owner FIRING his GM/President.

get real.

I wasn't all in on getting George without an extension. But when you see what it cost to get Butler and George...Danny simply CHOKED on his hoard of assets.

I sure hope it pans out.

IMO MN paid a ton to get Butler, I'm glad Ainge didn't pay that much. Dunn a high 2016 pick, their #1 (7th) this year pick and LaVine a good young guard

The media reports on the George deal are best inconclusive.

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by Rmbone on Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:10 pm

Jeff Clark at Celticsblog is over there admitting that the Celtics are years and years ahead of what Clark expected, but that still Danny screwed up by not trading the farm for Paul George.

Jeff Clark used to lament that Danny made a huge mistake not signing Rondo to a max contract before Rondo's last year here, because SURELY multiple teams would be lining up to offer Rondo max contracts at the end of the year. Part two of Clark's plan was to trade all the Nets picks for Kevin Love, and then step 3 was to trade young players for Josh Smith, to complete our Big 3.

Because it takes 3 stars to win, dontcha know...

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:14 pm

Rmbone wrote:Jeff Clark at Celticsblog is over there admitting that the Celtics are years and years ahead of what Clark expected, but that still Danny screwed up by not trading the farm for Paul George.

Jeff Clark used to lament that Danny made a huge mistake not signing Rondo to a max contract before Rondo's last year here, because SURELY multiple teams would be lining up to offer Rondo max contracts at the end of the year. Part two of Clark's plan was to trade all the Nets picks for Kevin Love, and then step 3 was to trade young players for Josh Smith, to complete our Big 3.

Because it takes 3 stars to win, dontcha know...

This guy Clark sounds like a real idiot!!!!
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:20 pm

Rmbone wrote:Jeff Clark at Celticsblog is over there admitting that the Celtics are years and years ahead of what Clark expected, but that still Danny screwed up by not trading the farm for Paul George.

Jeff Clark used to lament that Danny made a huge mistake not signing Rondo to a max contract before Rondo's last year here, because SURELY multiple teams would be lining up to offer Rondo max contracts at the end of the year. Part two of Clark's plan was to trade all the Nets picks for Kevin Love, and then step 3 was to trade young players for Josh Smith, to complete our Big 3.

Because it takes 3 stars to win, dontcha know...

Honestly, Clark may have wanted to give up a little too much, but Danny may also have gotten too cute. Without getting George or Butler, one has to wonder about trading the number one. Would Danny have done it had he known how things were going to play out?? Who knows. Now, I'm not sure I am so wild about giving Hayward the max. Assuming we are going to pay IT next year (a reasonable assumption since we passed on Fultz), then we will be giving max contracts to Horford, Hayward, and IT. Won't be able to afford anymore max players, and I don't see that 3 as a contender. It will all come down to how Fultz's career develops compared to Tatum and whomever we get for the LA/ Sacto pick. Could go either way

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:19 pm

And where is Josh Smith now? And Rondo?

Time for these writers to take a step back in their criticism of deals done and not done. We are not sitting in the inner office, know nothing of what is going on, and certainly are not qualified to make
These decisions. Whatever happens, he will have to live with it and face the fans and explain why things turned out the way they did I.

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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:35 pm

None of us knows what was really offered, and none of us ever will. It's not Danny's job to keep us informed. It's his job to build the team.
I am of the opinion that if we drafted Fultz, got Hayward and traded for George, people would still be on Danny's case.
If we unloaded the war chest for Anthony Davis? Yep, some folks would still be pissed.
I love reading all I can, and I love reading other people's opinions about what may or may not have happened.
Ultimately, it's my job to be a fan. I'm in for the long haul here. Whoever is wearing green next year, I'll root for.....period!
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:59 pm

They are on Comcast right now, Mannix, Gasper, Ryan, ugh Shaunessey/ I am still trying to figure out what they are saying
Ryan made it clear, he loves Tatum and Brown, glad they did not
Get rid of young guys. Mannix, thinking that if they sign Hayward they
Will be fighting again for eastern division title. The other two, want to win right now and yet they would not have given up all the picks that
Supposedly Indy wanted. It is so amusing to listen to them.
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Re: Don't blame the Celtics for missing on Paul George

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