Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

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Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

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Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:35 pm

One of them has to go in order to create cap space.  Which one do you prefer and why.


Last edited by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:41 pm

Crowder is the obvious choice.

After the dust up about the fans cheering for Hayward and his very public displeasure, there would be a toxic situation.

Also since GH is also a small foward and we have JB and JT we can use Crowder to address our 4 /5 deficiencies.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by bobc33 on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:46 pm

gyso wrote:One of them has to go in order to create cap space.  Which one do you prefer and why.

Is the Hayward deal not final until we free up enough cap space?
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:51 pm

He will be missed.  Crowder has been a solid contributor during the Celtics resurgence.  His toughness and physical stlye of play has been an integral part of the Celtics success.

It is difficult to determine impact but Boston has a more dangerous offense now.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:00 pm

bobc33 wrote:
gyso wrote:One of them has to go in order to create cap space.  Which one do you prefer and why.

Is the Hayward deal not final until we free up enough cap space?

Not enough cap space to fit Hayward. The talk is one of these three and maybe Rozier. Plus throw in rights to Yabusele.

Sad

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by bobc33 on Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:19 pm

GYSO so there is no chance the signing won't happen, it is just a matter of how they free up the cap space? Is there any time frame that is has to happen?
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:19 pm

Crowder. He has the most tradable contract and is not truly the answer at the 4 position. As Dboss said, he already may have issues with Hayward and may not like coming off the bench. Classic Danny move; buy low, improve the asset and then trade high. Too bad, I'll miss him, but not those untimely threes early in the shot clock.

Not Bradley. He is our only true SG. He will be costly next time around, but who is gonna cover the other team's best guard?

Not Smart. He can play both guard positions and always comes up with that one play that makes a difference. He will be a restricted free agent next time, so we can match any offer.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:30 pm

bobc33 wrote:GYSO so there is no chance the signing won't happen, it is just a matter of how they free up the cap space?  Is there any time frame that is has to happen?

Bob,

No definite time that this has to happen, but sooner rather than later is best. Danny may have to add a couple draft picks as well, not the Nets 2018 pick, but maybe our own 2018 pick.

Once Hayward is signed, we have exceptions available to fill in the roster. Vet minimum, MLE, etc. We could possibly re-sign Gerald Green or Jonus Jerebko.

It's going to be interesting to see what Danny can do to actually improve the 53 wins total from last season.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by NYCelt on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:13 am

I didn't answer the poll because I expect at least two of those are gone, very possibly all three.  Crowder and Bradley almost certainly.

We need bigs desperately at this point, and we have to lighten up the salary load.  Unfortunately, the player we have with the highest probable trade value, that we also could most easily work around losing, is Smart.  Bradley and Crowder are probably throw-ins on a deal somewhere.

I could almost see us packaging Smart and next year's Nets pick, and another deal involving Bradley, Crowder and our own pick, or the pick that just came over in the draft/Fultz swap.  The problem is, I don't know if there are any bigs of value that could be had for those pieces.  We may be best keeping picks and drafting bigs.  There may not be much choice.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:16 am

I am reading that Boston is shopping Smart.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:26 am

If Boston is looking to move 2 out of the 3 and picks we are talking about a major trade here.

I think they will fill the vacancies with some vets at short money. The key for Boston is to retain as much of their core as possible.

We still need defenders.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:22 am

to clarify the cap situation:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

they have Haywards' ESTIMATED salary there now.

they also have Kelly OFF our holds. so Maybe we have already renounced his rights.

anyhow, they show we are at $116M with all holds left. So Jerebko ( $9.5M) and Young ($2.8m) are certainly renounced . That means neither will be back here at all next year. This would put us about $4M over the cap still. so we can't officially sign Hayward yet.

danny can still renounce Green and make Yabusele sign overseas, which would then put us less than $1M needed. Releasing D. Jackson should get us there.

so technically Danny does NOT have to trade anyone to get Haywards salary on our books.

but our big man spots are very depleted at this point, with Amir, Kelly, Jerebko and Zeller gone. We have added Zizic and maybe Semi ( SF/PF?)

danny can still get a quality vet for the mid level exception (8.4m).

and we also have the bi-annual ( 3.2M).

but a trade certainly seems like a real possibility for some help up front.





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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:30 am

Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account
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Boston has renounced restricted free agent Kelly Olynyk, allowing him to become an unrestricted free agent, league sources tell ESPN.

why Kelly is no longer on the Celtics holds.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:43 am

on another thread I proposed another trade with Philly.

we send Crowder and Mickey for Covington and Holmes.

Philly can take on the additional $5M in salary and we get enough room to sing Hayward and sign Yabusele this year also.

Covington is a PF/SF hybrid and Holmes is a PF/C.

our roster would look something like this then:

Horford
Zizic
Holmes
Covington
Tatum
Yabusele
Hayward
Jaylen
Semi-?
Bradley
Smart
Thomas
Rozier

with Nader, Theis and our two cap exceptions still around to finish out the roster.


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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:10 am

looking at others teams rosters and salary info updated now, here is another option perhaps"

Trade both Bradley and Crowder to Denver for Ken Faried and and Wil Barton.

Barton would be a RFA next season but Faried is under contract this coming year and next.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:16 am

kdp59 wrote:to clarify the cap situation:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2017/

they have Haywards' ESTIMATED salary there now.

they also have Kelly OFF our holds. so Maybe we have already renounced his rights.

anyhow, they show we are at $116M with all holds left. So Jerebko ( $9.5M) and Young ($2.8m) are certainly renounced . That means neither will be back here at all next year. This would put us   about $4M over the cap still. so we can't officially sign Hayward yet.

danny can still renounce Green and make Yabusele sign overseas, which would then put us less than $1M needed. Releasing D. Jackson should get us there.

so technically Danny does NOT have to trade anyone to get Haywards salary on our books.

but our big man spots are very depleted at this point, with Amir, Kelly, Jerebko and Zeller gone. We have added Zizic and maybe Semi ( SF/PF?)

danny can still get a quality vet for the mid level exception (8.4m).

and we also have the bi-annual ( 3.2M).

but a trade certainly seems like a real possibility for some help up front.


Are you taking into account:

1. Contract for Daniel Theis?
2. Cap hold for NT-MLE?
3. Cap hold for BAE?
4. Cap hold(s) for incomplete roster? (less than 12 players under contract)

I keep reading one of the three players will have to be traded away and for the above four reasons, I have no doubt that that is true.   We will have to take in less salary in the process.  As NYCelt suggests, two of the three may go out as well.  I only included one of the three in the poll to keep it simple.

Once The Plan has been executed (roster purged, trades made and Hayward signed), we can re-sign Green at the Vet-min ($2,328,652).  We can also re-sign Jerebko with the NT-MLE (all or part of $8.406M).  They may be back and I wouldn't at all be surprised if they were.

We will have to wait and see.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by swedeinestonia on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:26 am

Hopefully whatever trade can be made to also strengthen the team and not just lateral/backwards just to clear up space. I guess technically you could swing for the fences and trade both Bradley and Crowder for something "major" and move Brown to the starting SG. He did fine when Bradley was gone and that could make it enough assets to get quality PF/C back which would probably end up being a net+ and also make you not have to worry about what you are gonna do with Bradleys contract eventually.

Bradley is not going to be more valuable than he is now, it seems that in practice his impact (according to stats) is much smaller than what people think it is and his current contract is great value.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:46 am

Theis isn't signed yet. He'll be signed after the Hayward pickup via a min exception.
MLE and BAE don't need to be counted as we won't have access to them when we're under the cap.
Incomplete roster cap holds need to be counted. That's why it doesn't really help to release Jackson. He'll need to be traded.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:58 am

I wouldn't be surprised if we just give away a player for a ridiculously protected pick. The team has to be under the cap in order to accept the player's salary and we are (at the moment) under the cap, so we don't have to match salaries. That allows Danny to keep other players like Yabusele, Rozier, etc.

I am not totally sure that Daniel Theis has signed yet. Some sites say yes, he has been signed. There is a cap hold for salaries in contracts that have been agreed to but not yet executed, but that doesn't count during the moratorium. Once the moratorium is over, that should be added to the books. Verbal agreements count towards the cap.

gyso


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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:01 am

KyleCleric wrote:Theis isn't signed yet. He'll be signed after the Hayward pickup via a min exception.
MLE and BAE don't need to be counted as we won't have access to them when we're under the cap.
Incomplete roster cap holds need to be counted. That's why it doesn't really help to release Jackson. He'll need to be traded.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13

A cap hold for the combined amount of any Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Disabled Player (see question number 25) and trade exceptions (see question number 87) available to the team (see question number 26), if the team is under the salary cap. (Teams may renounce these exceptions, in which case they no longer are included in team salary.)

My comment: Yes, they do.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:04 am

I thought once we renounce a players rights we cannot sign them for a year.

how can we renounce Jerebko and Green and even Kelly , taking their cap holds off our salary and then resign any of them?
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:11 am

kdp59 wrote:I thought once we renounce a players rights we cannot sign them for a year.

how can we renounce Jerebko and Green and  even Kelly , taking their cap holds off our salary and then resign any of them?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q39

39. What does renouncing a player mean?

As detailed in question number 36, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exception (see question number 25) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. Teams are still permitted to re-sign renounced players, but only with cap room or an exception other than the Bird exception.


Additional comment: So we can actually re-sign Kelly at the TP-MLE, but he will probably get more than that on the open market.  It would be cool to do that, but unlikely.


Last edited by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:17 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Stike out comment)

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:11 am

They'll renounce the BAE and MLE to sign Hayward

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:16 am

KyleCleric wrote:They'll renounce the BAE and MLE to sign Hayward

Likely, so all my talking about bringing back Jerebko or Kelly with the MLE is incorrect. Embarassed

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:17 am

you guys are good
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

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