Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

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Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:21 am

They should still have access to the room exception which could be enough to bring Jonas back or possibly a vet min exception. Kelly is going to get a lot in FA

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:56 am

Tough call, Crowder makes the most sense but all are fan favs and their are pro's to keeping each player:

* Crowder has an amazing contract the next 3 seasons that ownership is likely not eager to give up as they prepare to head into tax territory for years to come. He also plays some rugged D and wears down volume scorers at either F spot. Plays some small-ball PF and a big next to Horford is the C's biggest weakness. Shot nearly 40% from 3, improved his shooting %'s and reb #'s (another team weakness) each of the last 3 seasons.

* Bradley is a consummate pro and one of Ainge's favorite players of all-time. While his D on wings is not as good as Smart's his D on PG's is superior. The overwhelming reaction to his All-D teams snub by players around the league was telling (Smart and Crowder got votes but no outpourings of "that is the best defender I've ever gone against") His D will be needed on Kyrie and Steph as the C's try to topple those giants the next few years. Improving even in year 7 and will only be 27 this season. Crazy good rebounding numbers for a 6'2" SG and 39% 3 pt shooting also very important.

* Smart makes winning plays. It is that simple. Other players fear him and that is important. His D on PG's is not as good as AB's, but he can actually play PG (unlike AB) and is younger, taller and more durable. His D on wings is superior to AB's. Smart is a RFA after this season and likely to command less $ than Bradley moving forward and since it is obvious the C's can't afford both him and AB after the 2017-18 season retaining the younger one you can match any offer for is usually considered the wise move.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:56 am

so what your saying is Crowder and Tatum are our PF's this year.

in other words we don't have any.

oh well, there are no positions in the NBA anymore .

Horford
Crowder
Hayward
Bradley
Thomas
SMart
Jaylen
Rozier
Tatum
Zizic

our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:03 am

KyleCleric wrote:They should still have access to the room exception which could be enough to bring Jonas back or possibly a vet min exception. Kelly is going to get a lot in FA

I hope the room exception is used on someone a lot more useful than Jonas
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by mulcogiseng on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:05 am

I voted Crowder for the simple reason we now have a logjam at that position. But I'm in favor of moving Smart too. Bradley is our best two way player so I would hold onto him. He has markedly improved every year in the league. I'd like to see what he brings next season as we are now clearly a legit contender to make the Finals. Our problem is a lack of bigs but some people want to get rid of our best big prospect in Yabusele. Nothing has changed IMO, we still need his skill set. I'd much rather see Guerschon here next year over Jerebko, who doesn't play, or Green, who also doesn't play. Let's have a roster full of people who can play rather than just sit on the end of the bench. If the future is now, then let's get those future players on the roster and on the court.

My biggest concern is Danny's biggest flaw. He does not value bigs, He struggles to sign the right player. Even when he has the right players under control, like Zizic and Yabusele last year, he doesn't use them. Zeller, Mickey, and Jerebko were not the answer last year and none of them are the answer this year.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:07 am

BleedGreen wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:They should still have access to the room exception which could be enough to bring Jonas back or possibly a vet min exception. Kelly is going to get a lot in FA

I hope the room exception is used on someone a lot more useful than Jonas

Gasol

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by red16russ11 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:33 am

I voted for Bradley. Not because I don't like him, but because he has an expiring deal, and IT is going to get the max. Now, if we start the season with both IT and AB, then either of them will be traded by the deadline. But, as of today, I think AB makes the most sense. We can't pay both, and AB already feels he's underpaid. Crowder can be a useful bench player. Smart, Brown and Hayward can all play the 2 in today's "positionless" NBA.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:59 am

KyleCleric wrote:They should still have access to the room exception which could be enough to bring Jonas back or possibly a vet min exception. Kelly is going to get a lot in FA

I agree.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:01 am

I do not see Boston moving AB.   I think if they plan to move him it has to be part of a big time trade and not to free up cap space for Gh

Crowder has been upgraded and it will be a lot easier to move him because he comes with a great contract.  Would love to see him in the ATL.

If Boston moves AB we would sigificantly weaken our SG rotation.  I do not think Jaylen is ready to start at either SG or SF.

If you give up Smart you lose your swis army knife.  Don't get lost in the woods.

The Celtics are knee deep at the 3 so it seems Crowder would be the one to be moved.  But maybe our mad scientist and loyal companion egor plan to redefine the limits of small ball.  Maybe they will keep Crowder for now and play him at the 4.

I read yesterday that Smart is being shopped.

The starting 5 of IT, AB, GH, JC and AH will provide an intersting 3 point shooting team. With Brown and Rozier and Tatum and Zizic off the bench and one or two veteran bigs this would be a  very competitive team.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by NYCelt on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:03 am

kdp59 wrote:so what your saying is Crowder and Tatum are our PF's this year.

in other words we don't have any.

oh well, there are no positions in the NBA anymore .

Horford
Crowder
Hayward
Bradley
Thomas
SMart
Jaylen
Rozier
Tatum
Zizic

our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!

kdp,

I agree your list of our top players is pretty strong, with the possible exception of Zizic, who we'll need to see more of (and more out of) before he can earn a roster spot.  To keep it at 10, I'd replace Zizic with Brown.

The only problem that I see is that in order to afford Hayward, and sign at least a couple of non-smurf sized bigs, some combination of at least two from Crowder, Bradley, Smart and Rozier will probably have to go.  Brown may also be a possible departure through trade; if much of Brown and Smart's skillset is seen as duplication on the roster, I think they could decide to stick with one of the two.

Knowing that they might have to part with both Crowder and Brown if successful in obtaining Hayward, could, perhaps, explain the drafting of Ojeleye over a big.

Regards


Last edited by NYCelt on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:05 am

kdp59 wrote:so what your saying is Crowder and Tatum are our PF's this year.

in other words we don't have any.

oh well, there are no positions in the NBA anymore .

Horford
Crowder
Hayward
Bradley
Thomas
SMart
Jaylen
Rozier
Tatum
Zizic

our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!

I don't understand this post.  What (and who) is it a response to?

It's not like this is a final product.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:24 am

I want to make certain I understand our CAP space.

Exactly how much do we need to fit GH in?

Dboss
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:35 am

NYCelt wrote:
kdp59 wrote:so what your saying is Crowder and Tatum are our PF's this year.

in other words we don't have any.

oh well, there are no positions in the NBA anymore .

Horford
Crowder
Hayward
Bradley
Thomas
SMart
Jaylen
Rozier
Tatum
Zizic

our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!

kdp,

I agree your list of our top players is pretty strong, with the possible exception of Zizic, who we'll need to see more of (and more out of) before he can earn a roster spot.  To keep it at 10, I'd replace Zizic with Brown.

The only problem that I see is that in order to afford Hayward, and sign at least a couple of non-smurf sized bigs, some combination of at least two from Crowder, Bradley, Smart and Rozier will probably have to go.  Brown may also be a possible departure through trade; if much of Brown and Smart's skillset is seen as duplication on the roster, I think they could decide to stick with one of the two.

Knowing that they might have to part with both Crowder and Brown if successful in obtaining Hayward, could, perhaps, explain the drafting of Ojeleye over a big.

Regards

I think KDP's "our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!" is meant to be sarcastic, but as always, sarcasm is hard to read in the written word.

I would imagine that Danny has a plan going forward and let Hayward in on it.  Danny wouldn't say to Hayward, "We have a good team and if we just add you to the mix, it is a great team" and then just rip out the core after Hayward signs.  Crowder becomes somewhat redundant after Hayward signs and we have 7-11 onboard.  Ojeleye also kind of replaces Crowder, given time and patience?  Bradley and Smart probably stay.  

Otherwise, if Danny pulls off any shenanigans before Hayward signs, Hayward changes his mind.  If the shenanigans occur after Hayward signs, we got an extremely pissed off Hayward.

gyso


Last edited by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : *think)

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:43 am

dboss wrote:I want to make certain I understand our CAP space.

Exactly how much do we need to fit GH in?

Dboss

His first year's salary is estimated to be $29,727,900.

The cap is $99,093,000.

We need to be at $99,093,000 - $29,727,900 (= $69,365,100?) to fit Hayward in. (plus or minus)

How we get there is the question. Some of the subtraction is obvious, the rest is up to conjecture.

gyso

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:48 am

dboss wrote:I want to make certain I understand our CAP space.

Exactly how much do we need to fit GH in?

Dboss

I want to change my vote.

I voted for Crowder to be moved but now I am not so sure.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:58 am

gyso wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
kdp59 wrote:so what your saying is Crowder and Tatum are our PF's this year.

in other words we don't have any.

oh well, there are no positions in the NBA anymore .

Horford
Crowder
Hayward
Bradley
Thomas
SMart
Jaylen
Rozier
Tatum
Zizic

our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!

kdp,

I agree your list of our top players is pretty strong, with the possible exception of Zizic, who we'll need to see more of (and more out of) before he can earn a roster spot.  To keep it at 10, I'd replace Zizic with Brown.

The only problem that I see is that in order to afford Hayward, and sign at least a couple of non-smurf sized bigs, some combination of at least two from Crowder, Bradley, Smart and Rozier will probably have to go.  Brown may also be a possible departure through trade; if much of Brown and Smart's skillset is seen as duplication on the roster, I think they could decide to stick with one of the two.

Knowing that they might have to part with both Crowder and Brown if successful in obtaining Hayward, could, perhaps, explain the drafting of Ojeleye over a big.

Regards

I think KDP's "our top ten players right now. Watch out GS!" is meant to be sarcastic, but as always, sarcasm is hard to read in the written word.

I would imagine that Danny has a plan going forward and let Hayward in on it.  Danny wouldn't say to Hayward, "We have a good team and if we just add you to the mix, it is a great team" and then just rip out the core after Hayward signs.  Crowder becomes somewhat redundant after Hayward signs and we have 7-11 onboard.  Ojeleye also kind of replaces Crowder, given time and patience?  Bradley and Smart probably stay.  

Otherwise, if Danny pulls off any shenanigans before Hayward signs, Hayward changes his mind.  If the shenanigans occur after Hayward signs, we got an extremely pissed off Hayward.

gyso

actually it wasn't sarcasm , just a portrayal of what our roster looks like right now (more or less) I understand there is a debate right now about whether Danny HAS to trade anyone out of that list to sign Hayward.

right now that is our top 10 players, I just meant perhaps Danny/Brad do not see the need to add another big man in today's NBA, where position-less BB is all the rage now.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:07 pm

gyso wrote:
dboss wrote:I want to make certain I understand our CAP space.

Exactly how much do we need to fit GH in?

Dboss

His first year's salary is estimated to be $29,727,900.

The cap is $99,093,000.

We need to be at $99,093,000 - $29,727,900 (= $69,365,100?) to fit Hayward in.  (plus or minus)

How we get there is the question.  Some of the subtraction is obvious, the rest is up to conjecture.

gyso

According to Hoopshype we are at $71,230,656

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston_celtics/

The difference is 71,230,656 - 69,365, 100 or $1,865,556

If we cut Mickey and Jackson we would save $2,856,132. That would take care of Hayward but it would not leave enough money to sign Semi or Theis. Thus if Boston Keeps Semi and also gets Yabu to go back to China or Europe we would still need to move a player.

Am I missing anything here?

After that can we use the bi-annual exception and MLE to add a few more low cost pieces.

I think Marcus Smart is going to be the one that gets moved and we may need to throw in a pick to make that happen.

Most unlikely scenario...Crowder and Hayward play well together in the sand box. It could really happen.

dboss

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by KyleCleric on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Jackson has a 650k partial guarantee. It'd actually cost us more (cap wise)to cut him since he'd be replaced as well with roster spot cap hold. We'd need to trade him to reduce his cap hit

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:12 pm

GS during the playoffs played zaza and Mcgee a combined total of 23.4 PMG. West played 13 minutes so I can see where they played a lot of small ball.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:47 pm

Dboss,

You are missing all the cap holds that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

It is not simple subtraction of salaries.

gyso

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:50 pm

dboss wrote:
dboss wrote:I want to make certain I understand our CAP space.

Exactly how much do we need to fit GH in?

Dboss

I want to change my vote.

I voted for Crowder to be moved but now I am not so sure.

I changed the poll. You can cancel your vote and revote.

gyso

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by dboss on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:04 pm

gyso wrote:Dboss,

You are missing all the cap holds that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

It is not simple subtraction of salaries.

gyso

Assuming all the cap holds are renounced. I assumed that would be done.
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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by gyso on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:19 pm

dboss wrote:
gyso wrote:Dboss,

You are missing all the cap holds that were mentioned earlier in this thread.

It is not simple subtraction of salaries.

gyso

Assuming all the cap holds are renounced.  I assumed that would be done.  

The assumption in this thread is that it can be done by trading Bradley, Crowder or Smart.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by wideclyde on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:57 pm

Trying to stay within the thread's title, I have to say that Crowder may have to be odd many out.

He may be the most valuable of the three figuring his contractual control for the next three seasons at below bargain basement pricing. He also over fills the shooting forward position as our roster currently stands.

I have written many times that Jae Crowder may be the biggest factor in our team growing so quickly in the post Pierce/Garnett re-build, and our team will miss him dearly if he is traded.

However, as much as Jae Crowder has given and brought to our team since arriving from Dallas, the signing of Hayward, the drafting of both Brown and Tatum near the top of the last two years of drafting, chasing Theis, Abdel being the rookie of the year in the D-League, and taking Ojeleye in this year's draft the small forward spot is just too crowded. None of Brown, Abdel or Hayward are really shooting guards especially on the defensive end. Theis is unproven as an NBA rebounder and defender of power forwards.

Of course, we have seen Crowder play some power forward, but he is not yet a full time NBA PF. As the league continues to get smaller and smaller he may actually become able to play PF much more, but that time has not yet arrived, in my opinion. But, perhaps Ainge and Stevens are willing to go there sooner than the rest of the league? Could Crowder and Tatum be this year's power forward duo? Both could bring a lot to our team, and probably would be better than both Johnson and Olynyk were last year. Such a move does pretty much stick Horford at the center position all the time with Zizic as his back up.

There is nothing wrong with being "ahead" of the curve, I guess, and Ainge has done nothing to seemingly address our power forward/center rebounding issues so he may be thinking of Tatum and Crowder at power forward. There has not been even any unofficial rumors of having any big guys associated with the Cs (outside of Zizic) since the season ended ????.

I am sure that Ainge is on the phone 24/7 until he solves the money issues to sign Hayward.

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

Post by kdp59 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:24 pm

Of course, we have seen Crowder play some power forward, but he is not yet a full time NBA PF. As the league continues to get smaller and smaller he may actually become able to play PF much more, but that time has not yet arrived, in my opinion. But, perhaps Ainge and Stevens are willing to go there sooner than the rest of the league? Could Crowder and Tatum be this year's power forward duo? Both could bring a lot to our team, and probably would be better than both Johnson and Olynyk were last year. Such a move does pretty much stick Horford at the center position all the time with Zizic as his back up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kinda what I was trying to say earlier when I posted our current roster rotation.

I doubt they are done, but you never know in this small ball era of the NBA

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Re: Which player is traded, Bradley, Crowder or Smart?

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