Zizic taint

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Re: Zizic taint

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:01 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Larry Bird, Charles Oakley, Paul Silas, Perk all pretty much couldn't jump, but they all figured out a niche how to be serviceable enough to help us/their teams. Zizic has an old school game, he runs the floor, has decent hands, is committed to the dirty work, something Zeller and KO didn't have the attributes for. I think he can be our banger role player going forward.

Cow a few summer games makes not a career so maybe Zizic will surprise but I doubt it.

The Celtics do not want or need an old school game.  They want a new school game.  Zizic cannot space the floor on offense.  That means he cannot play in the pace and space and if he cannot play in the pace and space he cannot play at all.

At Least Zeller had the skills to play pick and pop and knock down those elbow jumpers.  Therefore Zeller is actually a better player than Zizic.  

Read the scouting reports on Zizic.  He cannot shoot from the outside.

dboss





I agree he has limitations, all I'm saying is he can fill a need that can help us that neither Zeller or KO could do. Tristian Thompson, ZaZa, McGee all cannot shoot from outside


Cow,

True, about those guys not being able to shoot from outside.  On the other hand, they don't need to because they are surrounded by GREAT shooters.

Perk couldn't shoot for shit.  He also was just a passable NBA center, at best, not starter quality, until Danny surrounded him with KG and Ray Allen and Eddie House.  For Zizic to play well in the NBA he needs to be surrounded by excellent shooters.  Danny is trying to do that by drafting Tatum and signing Hayward, but that's what he needs.  Without those shooters, Zizic I am not convinced he will become a starting center in the NBA without considerable upgrades to his game. Yet.


bob


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Re: Zizic taint

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:11 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Larry Bird, Charles Oakley, Paul Silas, Perk all pretty much couldn't jump, but they all figured out a niche how to be serviceable enough to help us/their teams. Zizic has an old school game, he runs the floor, has decent hands, is committed to the dirty work, something Zeller and KO didn't have the attributes for. I think he can be our banger role player going forward.

Cow a few summer games makes not a career so maybe Zizic will surprise but I doubt it.

The Celtics do not want or need an old school game.  They want a new school game.  Zizic cannot space the floor on offense.  That means he cannot play in the pace and space and if he cannot play in the pace and space he cannot play at all.

At Least Zeller had the skills to play pick and pop and knock down those elbow jumpers.  Therefore Zeller is actually a better player than Zizic.  

Read the scouting reports on Zizic.  He cannot shoot from the outside.

dboss





I agree he has limitations, all I'm saying is he can fill a need that can help us that neither Zeller or KO could do. Tristian Thompson, ZaZa, McGee all cannot shoot from outside


Cow,

True, about those guys not being able to shoot from outside.  On the other hand, they don't need to because they are surrounded by GREAT shooters.

Perk couldn't shoot for shit.  He also was just a passable NBA center, at best, not starter quality, until Danny surrounded him with KG and Ray Allen and Eddie House.  For Zizic to play well in the NBA he needs to be surrounded by excellent shooters.  Danny is trying to do that by drafting Tatum and signing Hayward, but that's what he needs.  Without those shooters, Zizic I am not convinced he will become a starting center in the NBA without considerable upgrades to his game.  Yet.


bob


.

we are in total agreement bob, Zizic is not smooth, but he may still improve on what his strengths already are and give us some inside toughness and rebounding. The rest of the roster can do all the pace and space and 3 point shooting galore....still need the ball.

Did you and worse go under water yet?
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by mulcogiseng on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:14 pm

Way to early in the game to make final determinations as to how good or not good any individual player is or how he will fit the vision for the future. They knew exactly what Zizic could or could not due and they used a first round pick on him anyway. So let me just say that last year play was at one level in Utah and a higher level in Vegas. Let's at least see what he can do there and maybe he will surprise and have at least one good game since he had so many across the pond.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:30 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Larry Bird, Charles Oakley, Paul Silas, Perk all pretty much couldn't jump, but they all figured out a niche how to be serviceable enough to help us/their teams. Zizic has an old school game, he runs the floor, has decent hands, is committed to the dirty work, something Zeller and KO didn't have the attributes for. I think he can be our banger role player going forward.

Cow a few summer games makes not a career so maybe Zizic will surprise but I doubt it.

The Celtics do not want or need an old school game.  They want a new school game.  Zizic cannot space the floor on offense.  That means he cannot play in the pace and space and if he cannot play in the pace and space he cannot play at all.

At Least Zeller had the skills to play pick and pop and knock down those elbow jumpers.  Therefore Zeller is actually a better player than Zizic.  

Read the scouting reports on Zizic.  He cannot shoot from the outside.

dboss





I agree he has limitations, all I'm saying is he can fill a need that can help us that neither Zeller or KO could do. Tristian Thompson, ZaZa, McGee all cannot shoot from outside


Cow,

True, about those guys not being able to shoot from outside.  On the other hand, they don't need to because they are surrounded by GREAT shooters.

Perk couldn't shoot for shit.  He also was just a passable NBA center, at best, not starter quality, until Danny surrounded him with KG and Ray Allen and Eddie House.  For Zizic to play well in the NBA he needs to be surrounded by excellent shooters.  Danny is trying to do that by drafting Tatum and signing Hayward, but that's what he needs.  Without those shooters, Zizic I am not convinced he will become a starting center in the NBA without considerable upgrades to his game.  Yet.


bob


.

we are in total agreement bob, Zizic is not smooth, but he may still improve on what his strengths already are and give us some inside toughness and rebounding. The rest of the roster can do all the pace and space and 3 point shooting galore....still need the ball.

Did you and worse go under water yet?


Cow,

We were supposed to go out on the boat today, but we're having issues connecting the GPS to the magnetometer (I'm getting data from the magnetometer alone just fine, hallelujah!, now we need to interpolate the survey readings with longitude and latitude by including GPS data).  Ran around Sarasota like crazy people today trying to find a VGA female-to-male-USB cable to plug the Garmin into the cables that are identified as "ports" by the software.  Still looking.


bob


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Re: Zizic taint

Post by bobheckler on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:34 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:Way to early in the game to make final determinations as to how good or not good any individual player is or how he will fit the vision for the future. They knew exactly what Zizic could or could not due and they used a first round pick on him anyway. So let me just say that last year play was at one level in Utah and a higher level in Vegas. Let's at least see what he can do there and maybe he will surprise and have at least one good game since he had so many across the pond.


mulcogi,

I agree.  

Also, let's remember, these last few games were the first US-style games Zizic has ever played.  He didn't sit around in dorm rooms watching NBA ball, he didn't practice NBA moves in Europe.  So he, and Yabby, have a little bit of a longer learning curve than an American player of comparable age.

Summer league is about two things:

1. Seeing who cannot play, more than seeing who can.
2. Seeing who learns quickly, since you have to adapt and learn quickly in the NBA.

Where Zizic is by the end of Vegas is far more important that his first few games.


bob


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Re: Zizic taint

Post by worcester on Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:04 pm

Amazing what one can deduce from a few minutes of summer league play...just amazing.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by Ktronic1 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:19 pm

112288 wrote:Zizic

WILL EVERYONE STOP THE PARANOIA AND KNOCKING THE KID.

THE KID IS:

1) IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY HE'S NEVER LIVED IN;
2) ALL BUT 20 YEARS OLD;
3) LEARNING A NEW LANGUAGE;
4) LEARNING A MAN'S GAME CALLED THE NBA

AND EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT HIM.

HE IS BUILT LIKE AN OAK TREE, AND HE HAS NICE SOFT HANDS....THAT IS THE ESSENTIALS FOR A GOOD CENTER.

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE........................ WILL EVERYONE LET THE KID BREATH AT LEAST AND GET SOME NBA TUTELAGE UNDER HIS BELT AND 80 GAMES PLAYED BEFORE BEGINNING TO KNOCKING HIM!

112288

Then you Pay him! Basketball
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by Ktronic1 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:21 pm

112288 wrote:International...........thanks for the post.  Just give the kid a chance to settle in.   I forgot another thing............I am sure he is house or condo hunting as well.........so much with so little time to just chill and absorb.

112288
Poor baby. This is the NBA isn't it? Let him try and get better in the GD league or something.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by Ktronic1 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:32 pm

bobheckler wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:Way to early in the game to make final determinations as to how good or not good any individual player is or how he will fit the vision for the future. They knew exactly what Zizic could or could not due and they used a first round pick on him anyway. So let me just say that last year play was at one level in Utah and a higher level in Vegas. Let's at least see what he can do there and maybe he will surprise and have at least one good game since he had so many across the pond.


mulcogi,

I agree.  

Also, let's remember, these last few games were the first US-style games Zizic has ever played.  He didn't sit around in dorm rooms watching NBA ball, he didn't practice NBA moves in Europe.  So he, and Yabby, have a little bit of a longer learning curve than an American player of comparable age.

Summer league is about two things:

1.  Seeing who cannot play, more than seeing who can.
2.  Seeing who learns quickly, since you have to adapt and learn quickly in the NBA.

Where Zizic is by the end of Vegas is far more important that his first few games.


bob


.
Bob, I, like you know what the Summer league is for. Really doesnt mean much to me that he just got here and all the other things people are saying. I get that he's not ready and I, like you know his team needs a big that can produce NOW. I just get tired of hearing people, especially the talking heads saying that this player needs time to develop and that player is young and still learning the NBA. Again, this is the NBA and its turning into a developmental league. If we want to talk about real development, the league needs to begin to seriously use the G league just as baseball uses the minors. Then maybe some day when fans turn on an NBA game they are watching the best of the best and not a bunch of kids learning the game...Like Zizic.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by NYCelt on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:43 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
mulcogiseng wrote:Way to early in the game to make final determinations as to how good or not good any individual player is or how he will fit the vision for the future. They knew exactly what Zizic could or could not due and they used a first round pick on him anyway. So let me just say that last year play was at one level in Utah and a higher level in Vegas. Let's at least see what he can do there and maybe he will surprise and have at least one good game since he had so many across the pond.


mulcogi,

I agree.  

Also, let's remember, these last few games were the first US-style games Zizic has ever played.  He didn't sit around in dorm rooms watching NBA ball, he didn't practice NBA moves in Europe.  So he, and Yabby, have a little bit of a longer learning curve than an American player of comparable age.

Summer league is about two things:

1.  Seeing who cannot play, more than seeing who can.
2.  Seeing who learns quickly, since you have to adapt and learn quickly in the NBA.

Where Zizic is by the end of Vegas is far more important that his first few games.


bob


.
Bob, I, like you know what the Summer league is for. Really doesnt mean much to me that he just got here and all the other things people are saying. I get that he's not ready and I, like you know his team needs a big that can produce NOW. I just get tired of hearing people, especially the talking heads saying that this player needs time to develop and that player is young and still learning the NBA. Again, this is the NBA and its turning into a developmental league. If we want to talk about real  development, the league needs to begin to seriously  use the G league just as baseball uses the minors. Then maybe some day when fans turn on an NBA game they are watching the best of the best and not a bunch of kids learning the game...Like Zizic.

Ktronic,

Good points.

I agree that the NBA really needs to develop some sort of minor leagues system in order to have young players develop further.

As it stands now, relatively few players that need to spend time in the D/G league, ever amount to much in the NBA.  Draft picks that manage to come in and quickly crack a rotation, become stars.  Those that need time over a season or two in the D now G League, seldom do. Without having the exact stats to back me up, I would guess that most players who spend significant time in the G League, seldom become NBA players for much if any time at all. A minor league system might help fix that IMO.

Regards
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by jrleftfoot on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:52 pm

In fairness, he looked better tonight in limited minutes.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:40 am

Zizic had his best game of SL, he doesn't have a pretty game, not athletic, but kid will battle and do the dirty work and he can produce in that role. A very unpretty 9 points 11 rebounds and 4 blocks, kid battles and battles....hit a great running hook shot.

I think we got a player
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by jrleftfoot on Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:53 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Zizic had his best game of SL, he doesn't have a pretty game, not athletic, but kid will battle and do the dirty work and he can produce in that role. A very unpretty 9 points 11 rebounds and 4 blocks, kid battles and battles....hit a great running hook shot.

I think we got a player

Glad to hear it. didn`t see the game . It was shown at 1 a.m. here
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by worcester on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:02 am

What I saw in Zizic last night was someone emerging from tiredness, jet lag, and the rigors of already playing 83 games this season. He's starting to get a second wind and show some of his stuff.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by international on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:46 am

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/ante-zizic-i-expect-little-bit-more-myself

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Re: Zizic taint

Post by kdp59 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:03 am

Baynes take any pressure off of Zizic needing to be a rotational player this year. If he moves into the rotation, it will be because he deserved too, not because we had no other options.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by bobheckler on Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:07 am

kdp59 wrote:Baynes take any pressure off of Zizic needing to be a rotational player this year. If he moves into the rotation, it will be because he deserved too, not because we had no other options.


kdp,

I agree. Having a legit back up center takes pressure off of Zizic. He will earn his minutes, or not, but he won't be thrown into the fire just because we have nobody else.


bob


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Re: Zizic taint

Post by mulcogiseng on Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:26 am

Glad to see my guy start to break out. I finally got to see a game this summer and I was scratching my head wondering what all the negative talk was about. But I guess this was his breakout game. Yes, he is absolutely raw esp in terms of the NBA game. His overall skill set is what it is, but what he is good at is exactly what we need from him. Ante will be in the rotation this year. He is learning exactly what it is he needs to learn and execute to make it on the grand stage of the NBA. At one point I said to myself: "Self, have you seen any plays yet that would make it onto the highlight reels? Mebbe a few, I sez in reply." He does not look good, smooth, or polished but that doesn't get in the scorebook. 9, 11, and 4 does.
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:35 am

exactly mulcog
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Re: Zizic taint

Post by wideclyde on Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:58 pm

KDP,

I am sure that signing Baynes was done specifically done to buffer Zizic and give him a chance to develop into what perhaps Baynes currently is.

Zizic improved last night, said that he knows that he needs much further development/adjustment, and will improve with time. He appears to be a hard worker and intelligent kid, but he is not NBA ready just yet. The fact that he is not NBA ready at this time should really surprise no one at this time.

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Re: Zizic taint

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