Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

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Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by bobheckler on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:23 pm

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/08/kyrie-irving-trade-list-boston-celtics-cleveland-cavaliers-nba/



Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination



August 8, 2017 9:38 AM


By Matthew Geagan, CBS Boston



BOSTON (CBS) — When Kyrie Irving’s demand for a trade first surfaced, the Boston Celtics were not on a select list of teams the Cavaliers guard would like to play for.

That, of course, didn’t stop the Celtics from being mentioned in trade rumors for Irving every 20 minutes. Given Danny Ainge’s throng of assets, the Celtics president of basketball ops. could present the Cavs with the best offer for the four-time All-Star.

Now, the man who used to make the trades for the Cavs is throwing a little more fuel on a potential Kyrie-To-Boston fire.

Cleveland’s former general manager, David Griffin, casually tossed the Celtics into Irving’s preferred landing spots during an appearances on ESPN’s “The Jump” on Monday — his first comments since his unceremonious ousting from the Cavs on June 19. Griffin said he believes Irving will be traded, and that it’s the best move for both sides to move on this point. He praised Irving for having the “courage” to demand a trade away from the Cavaliers and LeBron James, adding that he would like to go somewhere with a “really good coaching situation.”

As Celtics fans know, having Brad Stevens on the bench puts Boston in that category.


“That’s not youth and ignorance. That’s a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations — Brad Stevens and [Gregg] Popovich,” said Griffin.

Brad Stevens and Pop in the same sentence! Usually that’s something only the greenest of green teamers would be guilty of. But the C’s head coach wasn’t the only time Griffin mentioned the Celtics.

“Again, the teams on his list — Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio — he would be accompanied by other great players, so it’s not like he’s asking to lead a ragtag bunch,” continued Griffin. “He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime.”

When Irving’s demand was first reported in early July, the San Antonio Spurs, New York Knicks, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves made up his wish list of landing spots. That didn’t stop the trade rumors, with many reporters guessing the Celtics could offer up a package of Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, potentially a young player off the roster and a future first-round pick that Ainge has acquired over the years.

While Irving himself hasn’t mentioned the Celtics as a possible landing spot, it’s promising when his former boss adds the team to the mix. Not because the Celtics have a real chance at landing Irving, but more so because the Celtics appear to have become a prime destination for players looking for a new team. Both Al Horford and Gordon Hayward felt that way over the last two summers, and it appears more player are now following suit.

It’s possible the top two teams in the Eastern Conference could swing a trade, though it’s highly unlikely. But with Griffin adding the Celtics to the mix, the rumors won’t die any time soon.



bob
MY NOTE:  I'm not sure the whole "Kyrie wants to go to Boston" is a solid rumor.  When I first heard this it sounded like an off-the-cuff statement who the high-quality coaches are and how Kyrie would like to play for a high quality coach, and David Griffin included Brad in that short list. I do like the basic statement of this article which is that IF the "Kyrie would like to go to Boston" statement is true, then we have become a destination for high quality talent, be it via free agency (e.g. Horford, Hayward) or via trade with players that have some muscle and influence in the negotiations.  IF the Kyrie story is true this is one of the best indicators that we are no longer in rebuild mode. We are being perceived by top echelon players as built or almost built and needing only them.


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:12 pm

No thanks - they will implode by themselves. By mid season, perhaps LeBron will waive his no trade clause, go to the Clips, then everyone gets screwed and we weren't involved!!
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by wideclyde on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:20 pm

It comes as no big surprise to me that Irving would have the Celtics somewhere on his list of teams that would interest him.

Our Cs are an up beat team which is still improving, still has plenty of high level draft picks for about 4 more years, a great head coach, very solid (if not great) batch of 'teaching' assistant coaches, and a team without an ace offensive player (at his position) signed beyond this season.

Why he possibly listed the woebegone Knicks as one of his top places of interest completely baffled (I am pretty easily baffled, but come on, Kyrie) me when I first read it as they are still very dysfunctional and will remain pretty weak for at least the next three years.  Maybe he wants to go there so that he can frequent the same night clubs that seem to keep Carmelo Anthony in NYC.  I have never been to a club in NYC, but sheesh, they must have some awesome clubs in NYC?

Perhaps he has had a new light bulb go on in his head after blurting out the NYK as one of his preferred destinations, or maybe he got some better advice from his agent?

I still say that Cleveland will not get a top level young player, another good player and a super draft pick for Irving if the rest of the league can stay patient.  They have desires for what "they want" and, of course, they should shoot high, but in their situation (Irving pretty much has to be traded) they are going to have to settle for far less than what is on their current "want list".

The closer it gets to the start of pre season practices, if the rest of the league waits, the less he will cost.  Also, at that time of the NBA season many teams will likely back away from giving even one top young, lesser paid player because they will then have to fill in the deal with a bunch of bench type players to make the salaries work. Disrupting a team by moving four or five guys just before pre season is not something that often happens in the NBA.  Also, Cleveland will not want more deep bench guys because their roster will be full by that time.

How does this relate to the Cs, you ask?  A very BIG, BIG move, but a good move--Celtics sign Thomas for almost what Irving has coming for each of the next two seasons and trade him to Cleveland.  Ainge may have to toss in one of his first round picks in a later year (not the Nets and Lakers picks in 2018) to finalize the deal.  Thomas will take the sign and trade because he is thinking about more money, is not completely sure of his hip lasting all year (an injury could severely limit his earning power in his free agent summer), and will completely understand that if Ainge is even thinking of trading him that Ainge will not be offering a full max, five year contract to him next summer.

If I were Mr. Ainge, I would have already made a call to float this idea.  Cleveland may be more interested than most may think because they will at least get an all star player back for the all star that they need to trade.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by sinus007 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:46 pm

Wideclyde,
I'm not sure I understand your "BIG, BIG move"
IT is under contract for this year. Even if DA signs/extends him, the next contract won't kick in until the next year. So, in order to trade IT for Kyrie we need a salary equalizer. The only player that fits the bill is Crowder. IMHO, IT+JC >KI, I doubt that Danny will agree to such deal. To throw JB and/or JT in and a filler is, IMO, cripple the future of the team.

AK
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by wideclyde on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:11 pm

AK,

Yes, Thomas has a contract for next season, but there is nothing to say that Ainge cannot give him more money in a new contract for the 2018 season if he so desires. Ainge cannot force Thomas to sign a new contract to where he gets less than what he currently is going to get for the 2018 season, but giving him more would seem to be something that he can do and Thomas would accept for the reasons I listed in my other post (triple his salary right now, some insurance on his hip situation and not going to get a max from Ainge next July).

I would bet the ranch that if Ainge called Thomas and told him that he wanted to include Thomas in a trade for Irving that Thomas would quickly sign a new contract for $18 M for the next two seasons as these are the two years that relate to the two years left on Irving's current contract. This would make Thomas a free agent in 2019 and not in 2018, and would become Cleveland's decision to grant a max contract while Boston would have to decide what to do with Iriving at the same time. Perhaps Thomas (earning $18M in 2018) goes to Cleveland for only one year, and still becomes a free agent next summer.

I do agree that Thomas and Crowder for Irving is not a good trade for us, but if Thomas makes equal money to Irving's current contract only Thomas needs to be in the trade. Another thing, I do not believe (but did not check the 'trade machine') that the salaries of Thomas and Crowder are enough by themselves to take on Irving's $18+ M. No way even one of the last 5 guys on the Cs current roster along with Thomas and Crowder would be anything but a terrible trade for Boston.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by swish on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:28 pm

Why all the certainty that the Cavs will trade him - especially at bargain value?

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by wideclyde on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:38 pm

Swish,

It is true that Cleveland does not have to trade Irving, but it appears to me that there is no way that he will be able to play again with James in Cleveland after what has transpired with his request to leave and LeBron's reported actions after he learned of Irving's desire to leave.

I have checked some Cleveland newspaper articles and other reports and it does not seem like any of those writers believe that Irving will be in a Cav's uniform next season. Of course, none of that means that they have to trade him, but I am betting that they will trade him and also predicting that they will not get all of what they currently want for him.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by swish on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:21 pm

wideclyde

I'll take a shot on management trading him only if they get equal value back - but if they keep him and if he doesn't get his act together for the benefit of the team - he rides the bench. I hope that ownership, for the good of the league, puts their foot down on this type of demand.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:03 pm

If Kyrie gets all that he wants, where he wants, you will see more of this happening. I know that these guys should have some say, they have the talent to draw fans into the arena, hence, owners making money. But somewhere along the line, this has to have some control.

Kyrie announced that he wanted a trade after the draft, and after free agency was well underway. Alot of the big stars had moved by then, tying Cleveland's hands at pulling off a big deal with matching contracts. Listen, I am not crying for the Cavs, but, somewhere down the road this could be something that happens right here in Boston. You never know.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by swish on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:18 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:If Kyrie gets all that he wants, where he wants, you will see more of this happening. I know that these guys should have some say, they have the talent to draw fans into the arena, hence, owners making money. But somewhere along the line, this has to have some control.  

Kyrie announced that he wanted a trade after the draft, and after free agency was well underway. Alot of the big stars had moved by then, tying Cleveland's hands at pulling off a big deal with matching contracts.  Listen, I am not crying for the Cavs, but, somewhere down the  road this could be something that happens right here in Boston.  You never know.  

Exactly my thoughts Rosalie.

"but, somewhere down the  road this could be something that happens right here in Boston.  You never know.  [/quote]"

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:59 pm

You know how rumors are.  Griffin mentions Boston launching a whole series of unsubstantiated rumors.

The latest one I heard is IT, Crowder, Yabu and the Golden Egg for Irving.

Keep your f------ hands off the Golden Egg

Take the egg out of the deal and I would consider doing this because Irving is a better player than IT and also younger.  Crowder has no upside  and we already have Brown who can step in plus a high end pick in Tatum and a steal in Semi.  Therefore you would not miss either Crowder or IT.  But including the Nets pick changes everything for me because that pick is going to be a high lottery pick in a year where excellent bigs will be available.

Got ya going huh?

Forget about it.  Irving should have sailed with Columbus.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:14 pm

Alright I'll bite.....who is the golden egg?????????????????
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by bobheckler on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:20 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Alright I'll bite.....who is the golden egg?????????????????


Rosalie,

The Golden Egg is Brooklyn's 2018 draft pick, which isn't looking as golden now.


bob


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:25 pm

Duh!!! Stupid me!!!! My untouchables are the kids, I want to watch them grow into All Stars! The other untouchables would be Hayward and as far as I am concerned, Al Horford. He does a lot more on that floor than people give him credit for. IT can never be called untouchable, although I would hate to see him go. He picked this team up and dragged them along with him in that first year here, and now is the face of the Celtics. Everywhere you go in Boston his picture is there. So I would hate to see him go. But I have learned to never say never.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:52 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Alright I'll bite.....who is the golden egg?????????????????

The Golden Egg is the Nets 2018 draft pick
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by worcester on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:01 am

If Danny upped IT's contract to $18M for 2017-18 to be able to trade straight up for Kyrie, that would put the Celts, what, $12M over the cap? Is that something Danny wants to do?
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by bobheckler on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:04 am

worcester wrote:If Danny upped IT's contract to $18M for 2017-18 to be able to trade straight up for Kyrie, that would put the Celts, what, $12M over the cap? Is that something Danny wants to do?


worcester,

That's not something IT wants to do. He's talking max contract and $18M isn't even close.


bob


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:44 am

For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:01 am

A Kyrie for Thomas trade reminds me of the Pistons trading Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre back in 1989.

At that time the Pistons were already contenders but they still traded one of their best players.

It would be a similar situation if the Celtics traded Thomas for Kyrie.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by worcester on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:06 am

Bob, Regardless of whether or not IT wants to bump his salary by $12M this year, my question remains, would that not put the Celts $12M over the salary cap and prove to be a disincentive to Danny?
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:13 am

worcester wrote:Bob, Regardless of whether or not IT wants to bump his salary by $12M this year, my question remains, would that not put the Celts $12M over the salary cap and prove to be  a disincentive to Danny?

It's a given that starting in the summer of 2018, the Celtics will be over the cap.

At some point in the near future, the Celts will be tax payers.

Doesn't matter as long as the Celtics are a championship team.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by gyso on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:51 am

bobheckler wrote:
worcester wrote:If Danny upped IT's contract to $18M for 2017-18 to be able to trade straight up for Kyrie, that would put the Celts, what, $12M over the cap? Is that something Danny wants to do?


worcester,

That's not something IT wants to do.  He's talking max contract and $18M isn't even close.


bob


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Guys (and Rosalie),

Cold water is a coming. No

It goes beyond wanting. It just cannot be done this season. In order to extend Isaiah's contract for the amounts being discussed, the Celtics would have to have cap space. They do not have cap space anymore. They cannot extend Isaiah's contract past a nominal percent raise.

Next year, the Celtics can offer Isaiah a new contract and go over the cap to do it.

Extend a contract vs. Offer a new contract. Big difference in how the salary cap rules deal with each.

No Kyrie for you!

gyso

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:54 am

wideclyde wrote:AK,

Yes, Thomas has a contract for next season, but there is nothing to say that Ainge cannot give him more money in a new contract for the 2018 season if he so desires.  Ainge cannot force Thomas to sign a new contract to where he gets less than what he currently is going to get for the 2018 season, but giving him more would seem to be something that he can do and Thomas would accept for the reasons I listed in my other post (triple his salary right now, some insurance on his hip situation and not going to get a max from Ainge next July).

I would bet the ranch that if Ainge called Thomas and told him that he wanted to include Thomas in a trade for Irving that Thomas would quickly sign a new contract for $18 M for the next two seasons as these are the two years that relate to the two years left on Irving's current contract.  This would make Thomas a free agent in 2019 and not in 2018, and would become Cleveland's decision to grant a max contract while Boston would have to decide what to do with Iriving at the same time.  Perhaps Thomas (earning $18M in 2018) goes to Cleveland for only one year, and still becomes a free agent next summer.

I do agree that Thomas and Crowder for Irving is not a good trade for us, but if Thomas makes equal money to Irving's current contract only Thomas needs to be in the trade.  Another thing, I do not believe (but did not check the 'trade machine') that the salaries of Thomas and Crowder are enough by themselves to take on Irving's $18+ M.  No way even one of the last 5 guys on the Cs current roster along with Thomas and Crowder would be anything but a terrible trade for Boston.

I would seriously doubt the scenario you propose is possible. If it were, it would be too easy to get around the current rules, and teams would be doing this all the time, i.e. giving players new contracts to make salaries work. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised.

Also, IT would never agree to this. Aome fans and some folks here might understimate his worth, but he sure as hell doesn't. The dude was the second leading scorer in the NBA, with a Ridiculously high PER. He sees the contracts being handed out, and knows he will get a max. Why would he settle for less to hit the market in 2 years when he is in his 30s??? His agent should be fired and shot if he allowed this to occur.

Finally, I don't see Kyrie as being so much better than IT. His defense sucks nearly as much as IT's. He is a little taller and a little younger, but this is a guy who thinks the earth is flat. He us no leader, as evidenced by this petulant power play. Factoring in leadership, no way is Kyrie worth IT and a future 1st round pick.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by gyso on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:17 am

Shamrock1000 wrote:
wideclyde wrote:AK,

Yes, Thomas has a contract for next season, but there is nothing to say that Ainge cannot give him more money in a new contract for the 2018 season if he so desires.  Ainge cannot force Thomas to sign a new contract to where he gets less than what he currently is going to get for the 2018 season, but giving him more would seem to be something that he can do and Thomas would accept for the reasons I listed in my other post (triple his salary right now, some insurance on his hip situation and not going to get a max from Ainge next July).

I would bet the ranch that if Ainge called Thomas and told him that he wanted to include Thomas in a trade for Irving that Thomas would quickly sign a new contract for $18 M for the next two seasons as these are the two years that relate to the two years left on Irving's current contract.  This would make Thomas a free agent in 2019 and not in 2018, and would become Cleveland's decision to grant a max contract while Boston would have to decide what to do with Iriving at the same time.  Perhaps Thomas (earning $18M in 2018) goes to Cleveland for only one year, and still becomes a free agent next summer.

I do agree that Thomas and Crowder for Irving is not a good trade for us, but if Thomas makes equal money to Irving's current contract only Thomas needs to be in the trade.  Another thing, I do not believe (but did not check the 'trade machine') that the salaries of Thomas and Crowder are enough by themselves to take on Irving's $18+ M.  No way even one of the last 5 guys on the Cs current roster along with Thomas and Crowder would be anything but a terrible trade for Boston.

I would seriously doubt the scenario you propose is possible. If it were, it would be too easy to get around the current rules, and teams would be doing this all the time, i.e. giving players new contracts to make salaries work. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised.

Also, IT would never agree to this. Aome fans and some folks here might understimate his worth, but he sure as hell doesn't. The dude was the second leading scorer in the NBA, with a Ridiculously high PER. He sees the contracts being handed out, and knows he will get a max. Why would he settle for less to hit the market in 2 years when he is in his 30s??? His agent should be fired and shot if he allowed this to occur.

Finally, I don't see Kyrie as being so much better than IT. His defense sucks nearly as much as IT's. He is a little taller and a little younger, but this is a guy who thinks the earth is flat. He us no leader, as evidenced by this petulant power play. Factoring in leadership, no way is Kyrie worth IT and a future 1st round pick.

Shamrock,

It is not possible, that's why we never see it happening. I agree that if it were possible, Isaiah would never do it. I'll go so far to say that if it were possible and Ainge offered it to Isaiah, Ainge would get a "Hahahahahahaha!" followed by a loud CLICK as the phone was hung up.

Guts and ganas for I, me,me,mine? Ain't gonna happen.

gyso

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by kdp59 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:35 am

fierce wrote:A Kyrie for Thomas trade reminds me of the Pistons trading Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre back in 1989.

At that time the Pistons were already contenders but they still traded one of their best players.

It would be a similar situation if the Celtics traded Thomas for Kyrie.

true that.

I also believe a Thomas, Crowder and Yabusele or Rozier for Irving would work also.

we would still have to send one or two first round picks I assume.

I am not saying that the trade should be made, just what I feel it will take that, IF Danny wants to do it.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

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