Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:00 pm

When you are talking four positions instead of five, having a dependable NBA proven player at each position AND reliable backup become even more paramount than in the old five position league.

Clearly the Celtics have followed suit in how they build this roster.

Bigs - Horford is a very good starter, Baynes a proven reliable backup, Zizic/Yabu are inexperienced wild cards simply expected to replace Zeller's role

3-4's - Crowder and Morris are both experienced big forwards and either could start and give the C's two very good defenders to throw at star forwards like LeBron. Tatum and Semi are inexperienced wild cards the team/fans have high hopes for but neither can be expected to get 26-30 mins here from day one like Jae/Marcus are capable of

Wings - Hayward is the new all-star max guy here projected to be amazing and more than replace what the C's lost on the offensive end from Bradley. Brown the up and comer who will hopefully replace AB's D and could be something special in year 2. Smart will get big mins here as well and Rozier is just a luxury at this spot considering the team will barely need mins from him when he's asked to be a capable (if slightly undersized) wing.

Ball-Handlers - Thomas is the all-NBA starter, Smart is the more than capable backup who gets nearly starter mins by moving over to play a role as a wing or letting IT do that off the ball while he distributes. There are next to no mins available for 3rd ball-handler Rozier but he is important to have suiting up each night in case of an injury or giving guys rest.

Based on the roster DA and BS built around these four positions, how anyone can defend losing BOTH guys expected to fill almost all the 60 or so minutes given to the 3-4 position in favor of holding onto the 3rd ball-handler and 3rd/4th wing is beyond me. But to each their own. Obviously Rozier is a better player than Larkin and by the 2018-19 season could even be a better one than Morris, but he is not more useful or needed on this roster than Morris is right now IF Crowder is also gone.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by kdp59 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:05 pm

we're in the weeds here...but I am in with gyso on this that IT's bird rights went with him when we acquired him in the trade.

if you think about it, without that happening trades would be very hard to make in the NBA.


so we can trade IT to cleveland or anyone else this year and the NEW team has his birds rights and can go over the cap to resign him after he becomes a UFA.


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:13 pm

gyso wrote:BG,

You wrote, "It is not clear that Thomas had Bird Right's with a team he played 0.5 seasons for at all and Gyso said this."

I did not say that.  I said that anyone can discount my interpretation of #1.  That is my interpretation, meaning that I believe it to be true.  In other words, I said others can read it differently, and you do.  I thought you would.  Very Happy

However, #2 is pretty cut and dried.   It absolutely disagrees with your statement, "you don't get Bird Right's until you play 3 consecutive years with one team".  It seems to suggest otherwise.  No

As ridiculous as #3 seems, all a player has to do to get full Bird rights is (with the same team) play a single game during season 1 and play a single game during season 2 and then play the entire season 3.  The key is playing an entire season during the 3rd season.  All with the same team.   Shocked

Isaiah Thomas meets all that.  cheers

Best wishes,

gyso

Yes I admitted to your information correcting me on a team owning a players Bird Rights after he he played two full seasons. I had forgotten about the Early Bird rights and protections in place for a player who would be giving up Bird Rights when it came to my claims about what would happen to Thomas if he were traded to the Cavs.

Since Thomas was not traded to the Celtics after he acquired two seasons with one team and 'early Bird Rights' I'm still not sure whether the C's would have had his Bird Rights this summer if the contract he signed in Phoenix was for 3 years instead of 4 and he only played 2.5 years in Boston. This because when he was traded to the Celtics there was no mention of him 'giving up Bird Rights' like you see as a trade restriction with many players b/c at the time he was on a 4 year deal that once completed with Boston would give him BR's after 3 consecutive years with the C's.

You can play one game in season 1, another in season 2 and a full season 3 or probably just be under contract and never play a game for 3 seasons and get Bird Rights I'd think. I'm just pretty sure you cannot use 0.5 seasons year 1 in Phoenix as BR time accumulated and then transferred over to the Celtics since he has not played at least 2 years with the Suns prior to that trade.

Cheers
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:28 pm

The CBA is a very extensive and complicated document

From my understanding a player's Bird right are traded and the new team will be able to exceed the salary Cap but I think there are limitations on the length of the contract.

dboss
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:58 pm

dboss wrote:The CBA is a very extensive and complicated document

From my understanding a player's Bird right are traded and the new team will be able to exceed the salary Cap but I think there are limitations on the length of the contract.  

dboss

Yes, that's correct.

But saying the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights right now is totally false.

Totally ridiculous to say Thomas must first play 3 consecutive seasons with the Celts for the Celts to have Bird rights on Thomas.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by gyso on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:04 pm

fierce wrote:
dboss wrote:The CBA is a very extensive and complicated document

From my understanding a player's Bird right are traded and the new team will be able to exceed the salary Cap but I think there are limitations on the length of the contract.  

dboss

Yes, that's correct.

But saying the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights right now is totally false.

Totally ridiculous to say Thomas must first play 3 consecutive seasons with the Celts for the Celts to have Bird rights on Thomas.

fierce,

I understand . . . but . . .

Sometimes you just have to walk away . . . What a Face

gyso

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:03 pm

gyso wrote:
fierce wrote:
dboss wrote:The CBA is a very extensive and complicated document

From my understanding a player's Bird right are traded and the new team will be able to exceed the salary Cap but I think there are limitations on the length of the contract.  

dboss

Yes, that's correct.

But saying the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights right now is totally false.

Totally ridiculous to say Thomas must first play 3 consecutive seasons with the Celts for the Celts to have Bird rights on Thomas.

fierce,

I understand . . . but . . .

Sometimes you just have to walk away . . .  What a Face

gyso

Agree.

That's why I didn't reply to any of his posts anymore.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:26 pm

fierce wrote:
gyso wrote:
fierce wrote:
dboss wrote:The CBA is a very extensive and complicated document

From my understanding a player's Bird right are traded and the new team will be able to exceed the salary Cap but I think there are limitations on the length of the contract.  

dboss

Yes, that's correct.

But saying the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights right now is totally false.

Totally ridiculous to say Thomas must first play 3 consecutive seasons with the Celts for the Celts to have Bird rights on Thomas.

fierce,

I understand . . . but . . .

Sometimes you just have to walk away . . .  What a Face

gyso

Agree.

That's why I didn't reply to any of his posts anymore.
'

How convenient, allowing for you to totally avoid responding to my questions regarding your many other gaffs of the day and why you don't seem to understand how position-less basketball works or why Ainge and Stevens built the roster the way they did.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by NYCelt on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:01 am

It's time to move on here.

Thank you.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by bobheckler on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:17 am

NYCelt wrote:It's time to move on here.

Thank you.


Agreed. This one has been beaten into scallopini.


bob


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by NYCelt on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:42 am

Was that scallopini or Scalabrine?  Both have been beaten flat at times.

At least, if the posturing ends here, it won't be lock-a-brine.

Other comments on the actual topic itself are always welcome.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by wideclyde on Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:35 pm

I think that Boston became a desired 'destination' prior to Irving possibly listing Boston as a place that he may like to play at some time.

The hiring of Coach Stevens began a radical change in how the Cs were playing, how the players got so much better, how they were happier, etc. Then winning some additional games each season helped as new players were added by Ainge. Now two max contract guys have made the move before Irving asked out of Cleveland.

If not Irving, there will be more and more players desiring to play for the Celtics.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:15 pm

wideclyde wrote:I think that Boston became a desired 'destination' prior to Irving possibly listing Boston as a place that he may like to play at some time.

The hiring of Coach Stevens began a radical change in how the Cs were playing, how the players got so much better, how they were happier, etc.  Then winning some additional games each season helped as new  players were added by Ainge.  Now two max contract guys have made the move before Irving asked out of Cleveland.

If not Irving, there will be more and more players desiring to play for the Celtics.

I wonder why Josh Jackson didn't want to be a part of the Boston Celtics.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by wideclyde on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:08 pm

fierce,

I think that Jackson thought (and, probably rightfully) that he would get far more minutes in his first year with the someone else than he may have with the Cs.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:10 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20343088/lebron-future-impacts-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-trades

The longer he stays on the market the lower will be the return.

Dboss
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by bobheckler on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:34 pm

Rumor has it that Cleveland would want Jayson Tatum as part of any trade for Kyrie.

Thoughts?


bob


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:46 pm

[quote="bobheckler"]Rumor has it that Cleveland would want Jayson Tatum as part of any trade for Kyrie.

Thoughts?

Bob

That would be like taking an extended road trip but needing to do #2. Holding it most of the way there and then crapping in your pants.

Dboss



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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by sinus007 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:04 pm

DBoss,
IT for KI straight up is a maybe.
IT+JC, let alone +JT is "fahget abautit"

AK
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by kdp59 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:10 am

Look, IF Danny wants Irving (not a given) then we either have to match his Salary with players we send back (I believe is it at least 80% rule) OR get a third team involved.

Irving is making $18.8M now....BUT has a 15% trade kicker.

so we have to send back at least $14M up to $16.5M or so in salarys.

Maybe gyso can pipe in with what the cap rules are for a player with a trade kicker. I am not sure if the $18.8M or the over $21M with the 15% added is the basis for the trade/cap rules.

either way even IT AND Tatum alone will not work cap wise.


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by tjmakz on Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:08 pm

It's interesting to read again what some thought about a potential Irving for IT trading a couple of weeks ago and now how they feel since Boston gave up the Nets pick and Zizic.
If someone proposed this exact trade two weeks ago, I think most would have laughed at the trade proposal and would not have wanted Boston to make this trade.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by kdp59 on Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:37 pm

tjmakz wrote:It's interesting to read again what some thought about a potential Irving for IT trading a couple of weeks ago and now how they feel since Boston gave up the Nets pick and Zizic.
If someone proposed this exact trade two weeks ago, I think most would have laughed at the trade proposal and would not have wanted Boston to make this trade.

I think you are spot on...even though I may have been willing to give up more than most and I understand the salary matching needed ( IT and Crowder or Tatum to start). I would have been holding on to that final Nets pick with a death grip!!

But I think if Danny didn't include it than Tatum would have replaced Crowder in the deal and we'd have still had to give up the Lakers/Kings pick instead.

so as I said before, If Danny wanted Irving it would cost him IT, Crowder or Tatum and a solid first.

Glad I don't have to make those calls myself.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by sinus007 on Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:41 pm

TJ,
Agree with you.
This is one of the reasons that none of participants on this forum has real name of Danny Ainge.

AK
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:13 pm

sinus007 wrote:TJ,
Agree with you.
This is one of the reasons that none of participants on this forum has real name of Danny Ainge.

AK

Totally agree!

That's why I never believed Rozier would be included in the deal.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

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