Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:24 am

The man has spoken, Gyso, cap specialist, has given us his opinion. You know what I think about that??? THE MAN HAS SPEKEN, IT IS THE TRUTY!!!! OVER AND DONE. Thomas plays for "peanuts" this year, period. Boy, what a heart ache.

Gyso, thanks for giving me the who, what, where and why this will not happen I can always count on you and the guy out in San Fran!!!
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by NYCelt on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:26 am

Shamrock1000 wrote:
Finally, I don't see Kyrie as being so much better than IT. His defense sucks nearly as much as IT's. He is a little taller and a little younger, but this is a guy who thinks the earth is flat. He us no leader, as evidenced by this petulant power play. Factoring in leadership, no way is Kyrie worth IT and a future 1st round pick.

Shamrock,

I agree that Irving isn't enough of an upgrade to make the high cost worth it.  I'd still rather pursue bigs through free agency or the draft going forward, anyway.

I'm OK with Kyrie thinking the world is flat, as long as he performs as needed on the flat surface where he earns his living.  I join you in questioning his value as a long-term leader and teammate, however.

Regards
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by kdp59 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:36 am

I do think Irving is a pretty big upgrade over Thomas .

I feel he is a better overall player and the fact he is younger and also 6" taller, is being discounted here.

is he worth Thomas, Crowder, Yabusele or Rozier AND a future draft pick or two?

well, that's why Danny makes the big bucks.


Last edited by kdp59 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by gyso on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:08 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:The man has spoken, Gyso, cap specialist, has given us his opinion.  You know what I think about that???  THE MAN HAS SPEKEN, IT IS THE TRUTY!!!!  OVER AND DONE.  Thomas plays for "peanuts" this year, period.  Boy, what a heart ache.

Gyso, thanks for giving me the who, what, where and why this will not happen  I can always count on you and the guy out in San Fran!!!  

Rosalie,

At least I've changed the conversation away from "extend Isaiah and trade straight up for Kyrie" to "trade the heart and soul of our team, plus draft picks for a player of questionable intelligence who also lacks leadership qualities."

At least I've done that. Smile

gyso


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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:18 pm

NY Celt, left your name off by mistake, you are quietly in the background watching all the comments and post when the topic needs clarification. Anytime I have a question I bug Gyso or BobH, consider yourself lucky I don't bug you even though I know you have the answers too!!!!
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by NYCelt on Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:11 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:NY Celt, left your name off by mistake, you are quietly in the background watching all the comments and post when the topic needs clarification.  Anytime I have a question I bug Gyso or BobH, consider yourself lucky I don't bug you even though I know you have the answers too!!!!

Rosalie,

No problem, but bug away any time! My wife and son will tell you I don't have all the answers though.

BobH and gyso do a great job of getting to the bottom of things. And with gyso being our resident "cap-ologist" I'm considering maybe I shouldn't even write a check without consulting him first.

Regards
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:51 pm

For the record IT is not as good as Irving but he is pretty damn close and because of that any minny gutting of the depth along with burning any future first round picks in a trade for him would be counterproductive.

The assets mentioned are probably 75% of way toward going after the Brow.

dboss
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by kdp59 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 pm

dboss wrote:For the record IT is not as good as Irving but he is pretty damn close and because of that any minny gutting of the depth along with burning any future first round picks in a trade for him would be counterproductive.

The assets mentioned are probably 75% of way toward going after the Brow.

dboss

thats all well and good...but when did Davis say he wants out of NO?

you can't trade for a guy not on the market and pretty soon all those "elite" draft picks will be NBA players.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:43 pm

wideclyde wrote:It comes as no big surprise to me that Irving would have the Celtics somewhere on his list of teams that would interest him.

Our Cs are an up beat team which is still improving, still has plenty of high level draft picks for about 4 more years, a great head coach, very solid (if not great) batch of 'teaching' assistant coaches, and a team without an ace offensive player (at his position) signed beyond this season.

Why he possibly listed the woebegone Knicks as one of his top places of interest completely baffled (I am pretty easily baffled, but come on, Kyrie) me when I first read it as they are still very dysfunctional and will remain pretty weak for at least the next three years.  Maybe he wants to go there so that he can frequent the same night clubs that seem to keep Carmelo Anthony in NYC.  I have never been to a club in NYC, but sheesh, they must have some awesome clubs in NYC?

Perhaps he has had a new light bulb go on in his head after blurting out the NYK as one of his preferred destinations, or maybe he got some better advice from his agent?

I still say that Cleveland will not get a top level young player, another good player and a super draft pick for Irving if the rest of the league can stay patient.  They have desires for what "they want" and, of course, they should shoot high, but in their situation (Irving pretty much has to be traded) they are going to have to settle for far less than what is on their current "want list".

The closer it gets to the start of pre season practices, if the rest of the league waits, the less he will cost.  Also, at that time of the NBA season many teams will likely back away from giving even one top young, lesser paid player because they will then have to fill in the deal with a bunch of bench type players to make the salaries work. Disrupting a team by moving four or five guys just before pre season is not something that often happens in the NBA.  Also, Cleveland will not want more deep bench guys because their roster will be full by that time.

How does this relate to the Cs, you ask?  A very BIG, BIG move, but a good move--Celtics sign Thomas for almost what Irving has coming for each of the next two seasons and trade him to Cleveland.  Ainge may have to toss in one of his first round picks in a later year (not the Nets and Lakers picks in 2018) to finalize the deal.  Thomas will take the sign and trade because he is thinking about more money, is not completely sure of his hip lasting all year (an injury could severely limit his earning power in his free agent summer), and will completely understand that if Ainge is even thinking of trading him that Ainge will not be offering a full max, five year contract to him next summer.

If I were Mr. Ainge, I would have already made a call to float this idea.  Cleveland may be more interested than most may think because they will at least get an all star player back for the all star that they need to trade.

The Celtics will not be signing Thomas to an extension and then trading him for anyone.

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:45 pm

fierce wrote:For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj


Thomas, Crowder and Rozier works.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by dboss on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:55 pm

kdp59 wrote:
dboss wrote:For the record IT is not as good as Irving but he is pretty damn close and because of that any minny gutting of the depth along with burning any future first round picks in a trade for him would be counterproductive.

The assets mentioned are probably 75% of way toward going after the Brow.

dboss

thats all well and good...but when did Davis say he wants out of NO?

you can't trade for a guy not on the market and pretty soon all those "elite" draft picks will be NBA players.


To clarify (I should not expect anyone to know what i am thinking - my bad) I never said Davis wanted out of NO and as a matter of fact I doubt they would even consider a trade.

The point that I was trying to make is that those assets are more indicative of a trade (hypothetical) involving Davis but only maybe 75% of what it would take.

Everybody on this board knows how partial I am to keeping those Nets picks and using them to stock the team with talent that could become elite. So as soon as any of those Golden Eggs were mentioned (Let's get Jimmy Butler) the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

However if there was a Davis trade in the works and the last Golden Egg was demanded I would be all for it. But not at all for a guy like Irving who is a slight cut above IT and has a few pages stuck together.

dboss
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:05 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
wideclyde wrote:It comes as no big surprise to me that Irving would have the Celtics somewhere on his list of teams that would interest him.

Our Cs are an up beat team which is still improving, still has plenty of high level draft picks for about 4 more years, a great head coach, very solid (if not great) batch of 'teaching' assistant coaches, and a team without an ace offensive player (at his position) signed beyond this season.

Why he possibly listed the woebegone Knicks as one of his top places of interest completely baffled (I am pretty easily baffled, but come on, Kyrie) me when I first read it as they are still very dysfunctional and will remain pretty weak for at least the next three years.  Maybe he wants to go there so that he can frequent the same night clubs that seem to keep Carmelo Anthony in NYC.  I have never been to a club in NYC, but sheesh, they must have some awesome clubs in NYC?

Perhaps he has had a new light bulb go on in his head after blurting out the NYK as one of his preferred destinations, or maybe he got some better advice from his agent?

I still say that Cleveland will not get a top level young player, another good player and a super draft pick for Irving if the rest of the league can stay patient.  They have desires for what "they want" and, of course, they should shoot high, but in their situation (Irving pretty much has to be traded) they are going to have to settle for far less than what is on their current "want list".

The closer it gets to the start of pre season practices, if the rest of the league waits, the less he will cost.  Also, at that time of the NBA season many teams will likely back away from giving even one top young, lesser paid player because they will then have to fill in the deal with a bunch of bench type players to make the salaries work. Disrupting a team by moving four or five guys just before pre season is not something that often happens in the NBA.  Also, Cleveland will not want more deep bench guys because their roster will be full by that time.

How does this relate to the Cs, you ask?  A very BIG, BIG move, but a good move--Celtics sign Thomas for almost what Irving has coming for each of the next two seasons and trade him to Cleveland.  Ainge may have to toss in one of his first round picks in a later year (not the Nets and Lakers picks in 2018) to finalize the deal.  Thomas will take the sign and trade because he is thinking about more money, is not completely sure of his hip lasting all year (an injury could severely limit his earning power in his free agent summer), and will completely understand that if Ainge is even thinking of trading him that Ainge will not be offering a full max, five year contract to him next summer.

If I were Mr. Ainge, I would have already made a call to float this idea.  Cleveland may be more interested than most may think because they will at least get an all star player back for the all star that they need to trade.

The Celtics will not be signing Thomas to an extension and then trading him for anyone.

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:08 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj


Thomas, Crowder and Rozier works.

Yes, but why give up Rozier when the Celts currently have 6 or 7 SFs?

Hayward, Crowder, Jaylen, Tatum, Morris, Ojeleye, and Nader are all SFs.

Celts are better off keeping Rozier.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:14 pm

fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
wideclyde wrote:It comes as no big surprise to me that Irving would have the Celtics somewhere on his list of teams that would interest him.

Our Cs are an up beat team which is still improving, still has plenty of high level draft picks for about 4 more years, a great head coach, very solid (if not great) batch of 'teaching' assistant coaches, and a team without an ace offensive player (at his position) signed beyond this season.

Why he possibly listed the woebegone Knicks as one of his top places of interest completely baffled (I am pretty easily baffled, but come on, Kyrie) me when I first read it as they are still very dysfunctional and will remain pretty weak for at least the next three years.  Maybe he wants to go there so that he can frequent the same night clubs that seem to keep Carmelo Anthony in NYC.  I have never been to a club in NYC, but sheesh, they must have some awesome clubs in NYC?

Perhaps he has had a new light bulb go on in his head after blurting out the NYK as one of his preferred destinations, or maybe he got some better advice from his agent?

I still say that Cleveland will not get a top level young player, another good player and a super draft pick for Irving if the rest of the league can stay patient.  They have desires for what "they want" and, of course, they should shoot high, but in their situation (Irving pretty much has to be traded) they are going to have to settle for far less than what is on their current "want list".

The closer it gets to the start of pre season practices, if the rest of the league waits, the less he will cost.  Also, at that time of the NBA season many teams will likely back away from giving even one top young, lesser paid player because they will then have to fill in the deal with a bunch of bench type players to make the salaries work. Disrupting a team by moving four or five guys just before pre season is not something that often happens in the NBA.  Also, Cleveland will not want more deep bench guys because their roster will be full by that time.

How does this relate to the Cs, you ask?  A very BIG, BIG move, but a good move--Celtics sign Thomas for almost what Irving has coming for each of the next two seasons and trade him to Cleveland.  Ainge may have to toss in one of his first round picks in a later year (not the Nets and Lakers picks in 2018) to finalize the deal.  Thomas will take the sign and trade because he is thinking about more money, is not completely sure of his hip lasting all year (an injury could severely limit his earning power in his free agent summer), and will completely understand that if Ainge is even thinking of trading him that Ainge will not be offering a full max, five year contract to him next summer.

If I were Mr. Ainge, I would have already made a call to float this idea.  Cleveland may be more interested than most may think because they will at least get an all star player back for the all star that they need to trade.

The Celtics will not be signing Thomas to an extension and then trading him for anyone.

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.


According to this article they do not:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/05/21/you-wondering-about-isaiah-thomas-contract-situation/XIup9ZOCD58Fvq82iDLvWL/story.html

Need 3 years with a team to get them. IT acquired in Feb of 2015. He has not played 3 full seasons here.

Besides, I noticed that Gyso already explained how IT cannot be signed and traded after I posted it.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:19 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
wideclyde wrote:It comes as no big surprise to me that Irving would have the Celtics somewhere on his list of teams that would interest him.

Our Cs are an up beat team which is still improving, still has plenty of high level draft picks for about 4 more years, a great head coach, very solid (if not great) batch of 'teaching' assistant coaches, and a team without an ace offensive player (at his position) signed beyond this season.

Why he possibly listed the woebegone Knicks as one of his top places of interest completely baffled (I am pretty easily baffled, but come on, Kyrie) me when I first read it as they are still very dysfunctional and will remain pretty weak for at least the next three years.  Maybe he wants to go there so that he can frequent the same night clubs that seem to keep Carmelo Anthony in NYC.  I have never been to a club in NYC, but sheesh, they must have some awesome clubs in NYC?

Perhaps he has had a new light bulb go on in his head after blurting out the NYK as one of his preferred destinations, or maybe he got some better advice from his agent?

I still say that Cleveland will not get a top level young player, another good player and a super draft pick for Irving if the rest of the league can stay patient.  They have desires for what "they want" and, of course, they should shoot high, but in their situation (Irving pretty much has to be traded) they are going to have to settle for far less than what is on their current "want list".

The closer it gets to the start of pre season practices, if the rest of the league waits, the less he will cost.  Also, at that time of the NBA season many teams will likely back away from giving even one top young, lesser paid player because they will then have to fill in the deal with a bunch of bench type players to make the salaries work. Disrupting a team by moving four or five guys just before pre season is not something that often happens in the NBA.  Also, Cleveland will not want more deep bench guys because their roster will be full by that time.

How does this relate to the Cs, you ask?  A very BIG, BIG move, but a good move--Celtics sign Thomas for almost what Irving has coming for each of the next two seasons and trade him to Cleveland.  Ainge may have to toss in one of his first round picks in a later year (not the Nets and Lakers picks in 2018) to finalize the deal.  Thomas will take the sign and trade because he is thinking about more money, is not completely sure of his hip lasting all year (an injury could severely limit his earning power in his free agent summer), and will completely understand that if Ainge is even thinking of trading him that Ainge will not be offering a full max, five year contract to him next summer.

If I were Mr. Ainge, I would have already made a call to float this idea.  Cleveland may be more interested than most may think because they will at least get an all star player back for the all star that they need to trade.

The Celtics will not be signing Thomas to an extension and then trading him for anyone.

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.


According to this article they do not:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/05/21/you-wondering-about-isaiah-thomas-contract-situation/XIup9ZOCD58Fvq82iDLvWL/story.html

Need 3 years with a team to get them. IT acquired in Feb of 2015. He has not played 3 full seasons here.

Besides, I noticed that Gyso already explained how IT cannot be signed and traded after I posted it.

That's if the Celtics will extend Thomas this summer.
But that opportunity already passed because the Celtics used the cap space on Hayward.

It's true the Celts will have to use cap space if they wanted to extend Thomas this summer.
That doesn't mean the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights.
Once Thomas becomes a FA next summer, Celts can go over the cap and give him the max.

The article you posted said:

The likely scenario is for Thomas to wait until the end of his deal in 2017-18 and then agree to an extension for potentially the maximum using the team’s Bird Rights.

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:21 pm

fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj


Thomas, Crowder and Rozier works.

Yes, but why give up Rozier when the Celts currently have 6 or 7 SFs?

Hayward, Crowder, Jaylen, Tatum, Morris, Ojeleye, and Nader are all SFs.

Celts are better off keeping Rozier.

Maybe the Cavs want Rozier more than Morris?

Maybe Rozier is less valuable to the C's than Morris? With Crowder leaving already Morris would be the one guy of those you listed who has proved he can both play big mins at small ball PF in the NBA AND capably guard LeBron. After that hypothetical trade the Celtics would have Irving, Smart and Larkin to all play PG and Brown, Smart and Hayward to play SG.

Who knows.

You said they'd need Morris to make a trade work and I was just pointing out that they could include Rozier right now instead of Morris and the trade works. It's cool if you like Rozier better or think he's a bigger need. Just letting you know since you implied it HAD to be Morris in that package. Legally they'd have to wait a bit to trade Semi, Yabu or Nader. But they can include Yabu with 1 of those other guys in a few weeks instead of Rozier or Morris and also make a trade work. Tatum and Brown should obviously be off-limits.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:22 pm

dboss wrote:For the record IT is not as good as Irving but he is pretty damn close and because of that any minny gutting of the depth along with burning any future first round picks in a trade for him would be counterproductive.

The assets mentioned are probably 75% of way toward going after the Brow.

dboss

Well said. And I agree, a player like the brow is a different conversation. Not be argumentative, but by what criteria do you conclude Irving is better? IT was a better scorer on a team where defenses focused on him, not LeBron James. Similar shooting percentages. Similar rebounds and assists. Neither is AB on D. IT had a better PER (He was 7th, Irving 23rd). In regard to intangibles like heart and balls and leadership, they do t even belong in the same conversation. Everyone says Irving is better, like it's a fact, but what metric supports this? Personally, I think it's colored by the fact that Irving is taller and was a number 1 pick, but maybe I'm missing something...

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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:28 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj


Thomas, Crowder and Rozier works.

Yes, but why give up Rozier when the Celts currently have 6 or 7 SFs?

Hayward, Crowder, Jaylen, Tatum, Morris, Ojeleye, and Nader are all SFs.

Celts are better off keeping Rozier.

Maybe the Cavs want Rozier more than Morris?

Maybe Rozier is less valuable to the C's than Morris? With Crowder leaving already Morris would be the one guy of those you listed who has proved he can both play big mins at small ball PF in the NBA AND capably guard LeBron. After that hypothetical trade the Celtics would have Irving, Smart and Larkin to all play PG and Brown, Smart and Hayward to play SG.

Who knows.

You said they'd need Morris to make a trade work and I was just pointing out that they could include Rozier right now instead of Morris and the trade works. It's cool if you like Rozier better or think he's a bigger need. Just letting you know since you implied it HAD to be Morris in that package. Legally they'd have to wait a bit to trade Semi, Yabu or Nader. But they can include Yabu with 1 of those other guys in a few weeks instead of Rozier or Morris and also make a trade work. Tatum and Brown should obviously be off-limits.

Larkin is not a sure thing to make the roster.

Celts currently have 16 guaranteed contracts, including Larkin.
Teams are only allowed 15 players.
One will be let go once the season starts.

The future of the Celtics are Tatum and Jaylen.
Just doesn't make sense to have 5 or more SFs on the roster and only have 2 or 3 guards.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:36 pm

fierce wrote:

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.

[/quote]

According to this article they do not:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/05/21/you-wondering-about-isaiah-thomas-contract-situation/XIup9ZOCD58Fvq82iDLvWL/story.html

Need 3 years with a team to get them. IT acquired in Feb of 2015. He has not played 3 full seasons here.

Besides, I noticed that Gyso already explained how IT cannot be signed and traded after I posted it. [/quote]

That's if the Celtics will extend Thomas this summer.
But that opportunity already passed because the Celtics used the cap space on Hayward.

It's true the Celts will have to use cap space if they wanted to extend Thomas this summer.
That doesn't mean the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights.
Once Thomas becomes a FA next summer, Celts can go over the cap and give him the max.

The article you posted said:

The likely scenario is for Thomas to wait until the end of his deal in 2017-18 and then agree to an extension for potentially the maximum using the team’s Bird Rights.

[/quote] @

Yes the likely scenario for Thomas is that once the over the cap Celtics have his Bird Right's after February of 2018 they will sign him to a potentially max extension.

Of course they could have used cap space to sign him to an extension this summer. You can do that with a current player who does not have Bird Right's.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:42 pm

fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj


Thomas, Crowder and Rozier works.

Yes, but why give up Rozier when the Celts currently have 6 or 7 SFs?

Hayward, Crowder, Jaylen, Tatum, Morris, Ojeleye, and Nader are all SFs.

Celts are better off keeping Rozier.

Maybe the Cavs want Rozier more than Morris?

Maybe Rozier is less valuable to the C's than Morris? With Crowder leaving already Morris would be the one guy of those you listed who has proved he can both play big mins at small ball PF in the NBA AND capably guard LeBron. After that hypothetical trade the Celtics would have Irving, Smart and Larkin to all play PG and Brown, Smart and Hayward to play SG.

Who knows.

You said they'd need Morris to make a trade work and I was just pointing out that they could include Rozier right now instead of Morris and the trade works. It's cool if you like Rozier better or think he's a bigger need. Just letting you know since you implied it HAD to be Morris in that package. Legally they'd have to wait a bit to trade Semi, Yabu or Nader. But they can include Yabu with 1 of those other guys in a few weeks instead of Rozier or Morris and also make a trade work. Tatum and Brown should obviously be off-limits.

Larkin is not a sure thing to make the roster.

Celts currently have 16 guaranteed contracts, including Larkin.
Teams are only allowed 15 players.
One will be let go once the season starts.

The future of the Celtics are Tatum and Jaylen.
Just doesn't make sense to have 5 or more SFs on the roster and only have 2 or 3 guards.

Ok cool...?

Can the Celtics legally trade Thomas, Crowder and Rozier for Kyrie Irving right now?

[yes]

If said hypothetical trade happened (which I would not be in favor of) would they still have 16 men on the roster?

[no]

Would Shane Larkin as the 3rd ball-handler insurance PG (with both Thomas and Rozier gone) be very, VERY likely to make the team at that point?

[yes]

Can Hayward and Brown play some SG, Morris LOTS of PF and Semi likely some PF?

[yes]

Does that mean the team really has 5 SF's on the roster?

[no, they play position-less basketball and view them all as 'wings']
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:42 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.


According to this article they do not:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/05/21/you-wondering-about-isaiah-thomas-contract-situation/XIup9ZOCD58Fvq82iDLvWL/story.html

Need 3 years with a team to get them. IT acquired in Feb of 2015. He has not played 3 full seasons here.

Besides, I noticed that Gyso already explained how IT cannot be signed and traded after I posted it. [/quote]

That's if the Celtics will extend Thomas this summer.
But that opportunity already passed because the Celtics used the cap space on Hayward.

It's true the Celts will have to use cap space if they wanted to extend Thomas this summer.
That doesn't mean the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights.
Once Thomas becomes a FA next summer, Celts can go over the cap and give him the max.

The article you posted said:

The likely scenario is for Thomas to wait until the end of his deal in 2017-18 and then agree to an extension for potentially the maximum using the team’s Bird Rights.

[/quote] @

Yes the likely scenario for Thomas is that once the over the cap Celtics have his Bird Right's after February of 2018 they will sign him to a potentially max extension.

Of course they could have used cap space to sign him to an extension this summer. You can do that with a current player who does not have Bird Right's.  [/quote]

Yes, Thomas doesn't not qualify for the Larry Bird exception this summer, but that doesn't mean the Celtics don't own his Bird rights.

Not qualifying is different from the Celtics not owning his Bird rights.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:47 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:For the trade to work it would have to be Thomas, Crowder, and Morris for Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gxr9gj


Thomas, Crowder and Rozier works.

Yes, but why give up Rozier when the Celts currently have 6 or 7 SFs?

Hayward, Crowder, Jaylen, Tatum, Morris, Ojeleye, and Nader are all SFs.

Celts are better off keeping Rozier.

Maybe the Cavs want Rozier more than Morris?

Maybe Rozier is less valuable to the C's than Morris? With Crowder leaving already Morris would be the one guy of those you listed who has proved he can both play big mins at small ball PF in the NBA AND capably guard LeBron. After that hypothetical trade the Celtics would have Irving, Smart and Larkin to all play PG and Brown, Smart and Hayward to play SG.

Who knows.

You said they'd need Morris to make a trade work and I was just pointing out that they could include Rozier right now instead of Morris and the trade works. It's cool if you like Rozier better or think he's a bigger need. Just letting you know since you implied it HAD to be Morris in that package. Legally they'd have to wait a bit to trade Semi, Yabu or Nader. But they can include Yabu with 1 of those other guys in a few weeks instead of Rozier or Morris and also make a trade work. Tatum and Brown should obviously be off-limits.

Larkin is not a sure thing to make the roster.

Celts currently have 16 guaranteed contracts, including Larkin.
Teams are only allowed 15 players.
One will be let go once the season starts.

The future of the Celtics are Tatum and Jaylen.
Just doesn't make sense to have 5 or more SFs on the roster and only have 2 or 3 guards.

Ok cool...?

Can the Celtics legally trade Thomas, Crowder and Rozier for Kyrie Irving right now?

[yes]

If said hypothetical trade happened (which I would not be in favor of) would they still have 16 men on the roster?

[no]

Would Shane Larkin as the 3rd ball-handler insurance PG (with both Thomas and Rozier gone) be very, VERY likely to make the team at that point?

[yes]

Can Hayward and Brown play some SG, Morris LOTS of PF and Semi likely some PF?

[yes]

Does that mean the team really has 5 SF's on the roster?

[no, they play position-less basketball and view them all as 'wings']

Position-less basketball is another story.

The point is you don't keep 5 players who's natural position is SF and only have 2 or 3 guards.

NBA teams usually have 4 guards.

Right now the Celts Thomas, Smart, Rozier, and Larkin as PGs.

Giving up Rozier leaves the Celts very thin at the PG position.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by BleedGreen on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:49 pm

fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.


According to this article they do not:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/05/21/you-wondering-about-isaiah-thomas-contract-situation/XIup9ZOCD58Fvq82iDLvWL/story.html

Need 3 years with a team to get them. IT acquired in Feb of 2015. He has not played 3 full seasons here.

Besides, I noticed that Gyso already explained how IT cannot be signed and traded after I posted it.

That's if the Celtics will extend Thomas this summer.
But that opportunity already passed because the Celtics used the cap space on Hayward.

It's true the Celts will have to use cap space if they wanted to extend Thomas this summer.
That doesn't mean the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights.
Once Thomas becomes a FA next summer, Celts can go over the cap and give him the max.

The article you posted said:

The likely scenario is for Thomas to wait until the end of his deal in 2017-18 and then agree to an extension for potentially the maximum using the team’s Bird Rights.

[/quote] @

Yes the likely scenario for Thomas is that once the over the cap Celtics have his Bird Right's after February of 2018 they will sign him to a potentially max extension.

Of course they could have used cap space to sign him to an extension this summer. You can do that with a current player who does not have Bird Right's.  [/quote]

Yes, Thomas doesn't not qualify for the Larry Bird exception this summer, but that doesn't mean the Celtics don't own his Bird rights.

Not qualifying is different from the Celtics not owning his Bird rights.[/quote]

They do not own his Bird Right's until after he plays 3 seasons with them.

Phoenix did not own them b/c he just signed with them and played half a season there.

Bird Right's travel with a player. Hence why OKC has Paul George's Bird Right's but the Celtics do not have Thomas's.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:52 pm

BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:
BleedGreen wrote:
fierce wrote:

The C's do not own his Bird Right's being as he has not played 3 full seasons here.

He can only sign for 120% more than his current salary which, as we know, is ludicrously small.

The Celtics own his Bird rights.


According to this article they do not:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/05/21/you-wondering-about-isaiah-thomas-contract-situation/XIup9ZOCD58Fvq82iDLvWL/story.html

Need 3 years with a team to get them. IT acquired in Feb of 2015. He has not played 3 full seasons here.

Besides, I noticed that Gyso already explained how IT cannot be signed and traded after I posted it.

That's if the Celtics will extend Thomas this summer.
But that opportunity already passed because the Celtics used the cap space on Hayward.

It's true the Celts will have to use cap space if they wanted to extend Thomas this summer.
That doesn't mean the Celtics don't own Thomas' Bird rights.
Once Thomas becomes a FA next summer, Celts can go over the cap and give him the max.

The article you posted said:

The likely scenario is for Thomas to wait until the end of his deal in 2017-18 and then agree to an extension for potentially the maximum using the team’s Bird Rights.

@

Yes the likely scenario for Thomas is that once the over the cap Celtics have his Bird Right's after February of 2018 they will sign him to a potentially max extension.

Of course they could have used cap space to sign him to an extension this summer. You can do that with a current player who does not have Bird Right's.  [/quote]

Yes, Thomas doesn't not qualify for the Larry Bird exception this summer, but that doesn't mean the Celtics don't own his Bird rights.

Not qualifying is different from the Celtics not owning his Bird rights.[/quote]

They do not own his Bird Right's until after he plays 3 seasons with them.

Phoenix did not own them b/c he just signed with them and played half a season there.

Bird Right's travel with a player. Hence why OKC has Paul George's Bird Right's but the Celtics do not have Thomas's.[/quote]

It is understood that the Celts will have Thomas' Bird rights in the summer of 2018.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

Post by fierce on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:56 pm

Also, trading Morris will allow Tatum to start immediately.
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Re: Kyrie Irving Including Celtics On Trade List Means Boston Is Now A Desired Destination

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