Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by dboss on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:11 pm

bobheckler wrote:I want to see more of Brandon Ingram before I call him a bust.  He did not have a good rookie year, despite getting all the minutes he could ask for (personally, I don't think throwing rookies into the fire and let them get their brains beat in night-in-night-out is a good learning environment but when your team sucks you gotta pump your fans up by giving them hope and that means strutting your top picks) but that is just one year, his first year.  He just turned 20 in September.

This is a big year for him, though.  He needs to prove that his stringbean body can compete in this man's league.  Rumor is he added an inch over this year.  If he didn't put on a ton of weight  that could make things even worse.  His problem last year wasn't that he was too short, that's Randle's problem, his problem was that he's a matchstick man.  I have similar concerns about Jayson Tatum, to be honest, but compared to 6'10"+, 195# Brandon Ingram 6'8", 206# Jayson Tatum is Arnold Schwarzenneger.


bob



.

Two obvious issues with Ingram.  First he is very underdeveloped from a physical standpoint.  He will get stronger even if he does not put on a lot more pounds but in either case he is probably two to three years away from having 'man strength'

That however has no bearing on his shooting.  His mechanics are fundamentally flawed.  He had that same ill advised hitch in his jumper in college and I have not seen any noticeable correction.

He played 28 MPG last year after being drafted # 2.  He sure looks like a bust to me given his draft position.  He shot a dreadful 29% from behind the arc and a horrible 62% from the line.  Those number are not by accident.  I'm telling you he is a fundamentally flawed shooter for a guy that was being compared to the next Kevin Durant.  Thus far he has as much potential to be a bust as he does to be a good player.  High end production seems remote.

Maybe referring to him as a bust so soon is unfair.  But so what because he looks like a bust to me.  

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Last edited by dboss on Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by red16russ11 on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:54 pm

After one year, a small sample size I admit, I would take Jaylen Brown over Brandon Ingram. This year, I hope, will make more fans have this opinion.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by dboss on Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:14 pm

red16russ11 wrote:After one year, a small sample size I admit, I would take Jaylen Brown over Brandon Ingram.  This year, I hope, will make more fans have this opinion.

Agree. But he still was a bust the first year. Brown does not have physical frailties and he shot the ball better even given his rather limited playing time. Maybe this year he will play better but I doubt it because Ingram has done little to correct the mechanics.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:02 pm

so so glad we have Brown instead of Ingram, could you imagine a frontline of Ingram, KO and Zeller? OMG and Ingram, Randle and Lopez who is already injured, is pretty close in the Charmin dept.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by fierce on Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:14 pm

bob

Ingram's strengths in college included speed and quickness.

If Ingram adds more weight then he will be not as fast and not as quick.
That takes away one of his advantages of being a 6-9 player that's fast and quick.

Besides shooting, Ingram does not have an NBA body.

Just look at how Jaylen Brown can score even if he's hit or bumped.
Brandon Ingram can't do that.
When Ingram gets hit or bumped, he becomes off-balanced, so he ends up missing or putting up a bad shot.

The level of competition in the NBA and in college is very different.
That's why one former Duke player, Danny Ferry, was considered the next the Larry Bird in college and just role player in the NBA.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by kdp59 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:18 am

I think it's way early to declare Ingram a bust. Seems many of the things said about him were said of Durant early also. I am only comparing them because they have similar body types.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by fierce on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:56 am

kdp59 wrote:I think it's way early to declare Ingram a bust. Seems many of the things said about him were said of Durant early also. I am only comparing them because they have similar body types.

KD and Ingram may have the same body type, but Ingram is not as good as KD in shooting the ball and Ingram is not as explosive as KD.

As a rookie, you could already see the greatness of KD.
Can't say the same for Brandon Ingram.

Ingram is a beneficiary of the Duke system where coach K maximized his strengths.

Brandon Ingram is more Perry Jones III than Kevin Durant.

If Ingram was picked outside the lottery then he won't be considered a bust.
But since he's the #2 pick of the 2016 Draft, he's a bust.

Best case scenario is Ingram sticks and he ends up having a career similar to that of Danny Ferry, who was also the #2 pick of the 1989 Draft.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by dboss on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:13 am

Lakers tied for 5th from the bottom.

I will be looking at their record regularly.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by KyleCleric on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:33 am

Bulls, Hawks, Kings, and Mavs all off to poor starts

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by beat on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:34 am

dboss wrote:Lakers tied for 5th from the bottom.

I will be looking at their record regularly.

Dboss

saw this stat ...

lakers are -17 points per 100 possessions with lonzo off the court

interesting for the #2 pick.

on the other hand with our #3 pick Tatum we are +20 (plus should I mention we got another high pick along with him)

of course Tatum has a slightly better cast around him too.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by steve3344 on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:57 am

Lillard helped the C's last night with a three-pointer with :00.7 left to beat LA 113-110.

Loved it.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by fierce on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:41 am

Larry Nance Jr. has a fractured hand.
Out indefinitely.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by dboss on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:17 pm

Larry Nance Jr had been playing pretty good along with the rookie Kuzma.

LA will settle in to who they are which is not much.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by tjmakz on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:23 pm

With Randle and Kuzma, LA will be fine at PF.
Kuzma has significant offensive talent.

LA as a team has much more fight in them this year.
They could have won last nights game at Portland.
I think they will beat Brooklyn easily tonight.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by Phil Pressey on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:53 pm

There are so many upper echelon tank teams that I don't want to invest much time in thinking about the Lakers' draft pick.

If there was no protection on it, then I'd care.

Some games I say to myself, "Wake me up for the fourth quarter."

It's how I feel about this topic. Wake me up when they show us the ping pong balls.

I figure the Lakers will be a Sacramento type #eight pick, in that area. I mean the Kings of the last several years. They always seemed to get the #8-#10 with Cousins. If you're going to tank, it has to be full. Danny did what he had to do to counter the Stevens Effect and for one year of tanking, we have Marcus Smart.

Things can change quickly. Say LeBron gets injured (although he is built like a tank). Then Cleveland would become a top contender for the worst record.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by wideclyde on Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:05 pm

The Lakers have already surprised me by winning 5 games in the first two weeks of the season, and I do not like it.

The rest of the NBA has completely fallen apart in their dealings with Ball after the Clippers clearly showed the league that you need to rough him up to lessen his ability to contribute in any/every game.

The Suns have already fired their head coach because he did not pay attention to the Clippers game plan as part of probably many reasons why he got dumped so early in the season.

It may now be too late to play the "rough up Ball" game plan, but I still think that I would find a way to use up 10-12 fouls to try it. This guy may not be the absolute best, but he is scoring in double figures with over 5 assists per game where he only got two points and 2 assists in his first game against the Clippers.

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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by tjmakz on Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:29 pm

By Christmas quite a few teams could be in tank mode.
The Lakers won't be one of them.
This is the last year where a race to the bottom helps your chances of getting a top pick.
Every spot lower in the standings helps tanking teams.
Next year that changes.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by Phil Pressey on Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:49 pm

tjmakz wrote:By Christmas quite a few teams could be in tank mode.
The Lakers won't be one of them.
This is the last year where a race to the bottom helps your chances of getting a top pick.
Every spot lower in the standings helps tanking teams.
Next year that changes.

That could be wishful thinking. Brooklyn proved last year that a team doesn't have to be in tank mode to get the worst record. While the Lakers don't seem to be a bottom five team, you just lost a player. At a minimum, I'd say the Lakers are in the hunt for the worst record, but they'll need another bad break or two to truly become the envied of the pitiful.

I do agree this being the last tanking allowed year may be fueling a race to who can be most incompetent.

The Lakers should be okay in a few years, or maybe next year they will somehow add on LeBron and accelerate their rebuild.

I predict over the next ten years there will be no man hated outside of Boston more than Danny Ainge.

This feels too good to be true. If the dynasty does happen, the championship lead is going to be stretched out. We need breathing room because L.A. is so nice for weather and big lights.

Although the Weinstein and similar scandals could be hurting L.A.'s image. There are earthquakes. Some players might not want to raise their kids near such alleged filth.

The lead is down to 17-16. Get it done, Danny.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by fierce on Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:38 pm

wideclyde wrote:The Lakers have already surprised me by winning 5 games in the first two weeks of the season, and I do not like it.

The rest of the NBA has completely fallen apart in their dealings with Ball after the Clippers clearly showed the league that you need to rough him up to lessen his ability to contribute in any/every game.

The Suns have already fired their head coach because he did not pay attention to the Clippers game plan as part of probably many reasons why he got dumped so early in the season.

It may now be too late to play the "rough up Ball" game plan, but I still think that I would find a way to use up 10-12 fouls to try it.  This guy may not be the absolute best, but he is scoring in double figures with over 5 assists per game where he only got two points and 2 assists in his first game against the Clippers.

Lakers only have 3 wins so far.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by tjmakz on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:49 am

The Lakers picked up the win last night against Brooklyn.
The Lakers now are tied for the 7th-11th worst record.
With Nance out 4-6 weeks, Kuzma stepped up with 21 points and 13 rebounds on 8-11 shooting.
If Kuzma gets enough shots, he’s a 20 Point scorer in the league, even as a rookie.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by swedeinestonia on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:28 am

Enough shots and any pro player is a 20 point scorer but the game might end up 21-150. Semantics aside he is and will be a good player.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by tjmakz on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:23 pm

swedeinestonia wrote:Enough shots and any pro player is a 20 point scorer but the game might end up 21-150. Semantics aside he is and will be a good player.

Marcus Smart will never be a 20ppg player.
He's not offensively talented enough to score 20 per game.
Kuzma should score 20ppg if he takes 15 shots per game.
He will get his chance with Nance out.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by swedeinestonia on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:26 pm

tjmakz wrote:
swedeinestonia wrote:Enough shots and any pro player is a 20 point scorer but the game might end up 21-150. Semantics aside he is and will be a good player.

Marcus Smart will never be a 20ppg player.
He's not offensively talented enough to score 20 per game.
Kuzma should score 20ppg if he takes 15 shots per game.
He will get his chance with Nance out.

He would if he took enough shots he is not THAT bad of a shooter. It is just not efficient scoring and would hurt the team if he for some reason had to average 20ppg, it would be very difficult for him to do it without it having negative effects.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:14 am

Lakers right now are better than I thought, but seeing how spectacular Kyrie is and he can pass and play defense at a high level, right now I feel the trade was worth it, Kyrie is easily best guard in the East....he's ridiculous.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

Post by tjmakz on Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:23 am

The Lakers record is now 5-5 after a win against Memphis last night.
LA was up by 22 at one point and double digits for much of the game.
The Lakers have played pretty well in 8 of their first 10 games.
This Lakers team is more talented and plays harder than the Lakers teams of the last few years.
Other than lottery luck, I do not think LA's pick will be in the 2-5 range.
They are tied for the 11th-15th worst record right now.
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Re: Lakers Pick Could Be Golden

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