Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

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Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by bobheckler on Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Lots to like, some not so much.

If Jaylen Brown is supposed to be our lock down defender he has a long way to go.  Gave up buckets to Batum and Kidd-Gilchrist that didn't need to be given up.  Meh night for Jaylen.

Tatum with rookie jitters that settled down after he started the 2nd half.  4 assists and 1 TO was a nice surprise.

Daniel Theis is going to get serious minutes this year.  He missed 2 dunks and an elbow jumper but did EVERYTHING else right.  12 points, 5-8, 1-1 from 3, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 0 TOs, 1 block and was in the middle of a lot of stuff in just 14 minutes.  His offensive and defensive rotations looked very veteran. He's a basketball player, this is basketball. Whoever our Euro scout is he done real well.

Baynes looked great.  Hit a couple of elbow jumpers that are bonus.  10 points on 5-8, 5 boards and a block.  Very happy with what I saw.  Did an excellent job of frustrating Dwight Howard which is enough to earn him a B- grade alone.  Howard is a dinosaur, he just hasn't figured out it's time to lie down and turn into oil.

Yabby, Semi looked lost, but who cares?  Morris will fill those minutes.  He might be weak because he missed camp but by January he'll be ok.  Assuming, you know, he's not in an orange jump suit.

Larkin looked very good.  A real floor general.

Nader.  I have no idea how he is able to just make beelines to the rim all the time like that and nobody gets in his way.


A nice first game.  I didn't think Irving and Hayward looked particularly good, not good shooting nights for either, but I'm not worried about them.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978752



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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by dboss on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:44 pm

What I liked most from both units was the way they moved the ball.  Everybody got wide open shots.

Was impressed with Baynes and especially Theis.  Considering how new the team is they seem to already get it.

Tatum was as nervous as a guy going out on his first date ever but he is oozing with talent.

Marcus is noticeably quicker.

Terry also played well.  Definitely looks more seasoned.

I also really liked how Larkin came in and ran the offense.  He really picked the team up.

It appears we have a ton of guys that can take their man off the dribble.  Nadar was very impressive.

Good first outing.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by bobheckler on Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:30 pm

Mark Murphy @Murf56
about 40 minutes ago
Baynes on his in-game beef with Dwight: "It’s fun. We’ve been hitting teammates for so long, it’s fun to hit someone else’s teammates."
reply retweet like


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MY NOTE:  That sound you just heard was the thud from Cowens falling in love.  LOL.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:56 pm

bobheckler wrote:Lots to like, some not so much.

If Jaylen Brown is supposed to be our lock down defender he has a long way to go.  Gave up buckets to Batum and Kidd-Gilchrist that didn't need to be given up.  Meh night for Jaylen.

Tatum with rookie jitters that settled down after he started the 2nd half.  4 assists and 1 TO was a nice surprise.

Daniel Theis is going to get serious minutes this year.  He missed 2 dunks and an elbow jumper but did EVERYTHING else right.  12 points, 5-8, 1-1 from 3, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 0 TOs, 1 block and was in the middle of a lot of stuff in just 14 minutes.  His offensive and defensive rotations looked very veteran.  He's a basketball player, this is basketball.  Whoever our Euro scout is he done real well.

Baynes looked great.  Hit a couple of elbow jumpers that are bonus.  10 points on 5-8, 5 boards and a block.  Very happy with what I saw.  Did an excellent job of frustrating Dwight Howard which is enough to earn him a B- grade alone.  Howard is a dinosaur, he just hasn't figured out it's time to lie down and turn into oil.

Yabby, Semi looked lost, but who cares?  Morris will fill those minutes.  He might be weak because he missed camp but by January he'll be ok.  Assuming, you know, he's not in an orange jump suit.

Larkin looked very good.  A real floor general.

Nader.  I have no idea how he is able to just make beelines to the rim all the time like that and nobody gets in his way.


A nice first game.  I didn't think Irving and Hayward looked particularly good, not good shooting nights for either, but I'm not worried about them.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978752



bob


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you could say the same thing about Hayward, if he is supposed to be our go to scorer, he needs a lot of work, the player that avg 24 points in the playoffs will show up soon. I don't think Brown will ever be as technically as good a defender as AB, few are, he will have lapses, but I still see a budding young player that can help us both ends. He still got up on the shooting hand enough to make shots clank too. Nader, Theis, Larkin all looked good, Theis was so good at so many modern PF things. Baynes showed a Spur like presence, nothing fancy, just does lunch pail big man dirty work. We've got an almost completely new team and so far I really like it.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:02 am

That was fun. Looking forward to the season, should be a good time.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by KyleCleric on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:05 am

The play from Baynes and Theis was quite encouraging. Hopefully what we saw today is the type of game we'll see all season.

Smart has to stop taking bad shots. There is 0 reason to force contested 3s while moving unless you're Curry.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by fierce on Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:09 am

Celts won the battle of the boards, 52-45, against the Hornets.

Baynes and Theis were outstanding against the Hornets.

Before the season started, there were doubts about the Celtic bigs.
But it's looking like Baynes and Theis will be more than enough to complement Al Horford.

That's why we have to see them play first before talking about trading anyone.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by kdp59 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:18 am

my thought's pretty much everyone else's here.

I was surprised by Baynes overall play , like someone said very Spurs like.

Theis did not surprise me after watching him in some of the games in europe he just played for the German team. He did the same things last night he did there.


Yabusele was ahead of Theis in the rotation, not sure why and I doubt if that will continue. Frankly he looked undersized and a bit lost at times out there. Reminds me of a smaller Sullinger...if that's the case, whats the point?

Larkin looked good against the second team, but really hard to see him getting much minutes once the games count, IMO.

I Still think Smart will end up starting with Irving by the time the season starts, with Jaylen as the 6th man off the bench. Just seems to be the logical rotation/combo. Rozier continues his improved play from last years playoffs and will need minutes also.

Tatum is long, but man is he thin!

I would like to see Jaylen and Tatum anchor our second team myself with Theis, Rozier and perhaps Morris or Baynes depending on who starts.

Bottom line for me is IF Baynes and Theis can play like they did last night, our worry about depth up front will not turn out to be true.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by swedeinestonia on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:27 am

I like how the team will be very flexible both for the starting 5 and the bench. Irving-Hayward-Horford all three are players that will be able to make players around them better so remaining 2 spots can be used for matching up / creating match-up problems rather than just being set.

Theis and Baynes both look very solid and steady and I get the feeling both of them will be able to deliver this on a consistent basis, very "spurs like". Hard workers with solid bb iq that will do what you expect them to do well.

In a way the problem is once again that there are too many good players for the minutes available. I expect some players will be condensed into better players with trades or converted into draft picks.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by 112288 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:18 am

The Celtics now have a real bench! It will be the bench who will determine how far the Celtics go this year. They are the key.

However as Sam always used to say..............See me in April!

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by dboss on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:32 am

Brad may start Baynes when we go up against teams with big centers.  No need to tired out AH at the 5 against brutes.

One game does not make a season but Theis looks very much ahead of Yabusele.  Yabu did some banging and fought hard for additional possessions but on offense he looked off balance and somewhat clumsy.  That is just my opinion.

Theis replicated the highlight films I have been watching for the last few months.  He appears to be the best roll guy on the team.  He looks like a seasoned veteran.  

Smart took and made some nice three points shots but he also took some bad ones and missed badly.  I have mentioned before that he can become a more reliable player on offense if he takes less three point shots.  He needs more discipline with his shot selection.  He did however make Smart like plays on defense and going after 50/50 balls. There was a great play where he came out of nowhere to fight for a rebound.  That was a 40/60 play and he still managed to save a possession for Boston.

Terry had three steals last night.  He scored on an Irving like drive and layup, a smooth three pointer from the corner and a dunk off of one of his steals.

When Larkin came in the Celtics had lost their momentum and then he proceeded to take his man off the dribble twice for really nice layups.  He is a solid ball handler and provides another layer of depth at the point.

I am not all that concerned about Jaylen on defense.  I am still more concerned about his ability to make shots.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by bobheckler on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:06 am

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Jayson Tatum was so solid tonight that Kobe signed some shoes for him and then used his portal gun to drop them off in Watertown.




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MY NOTE: Portal gun? Anyway, is it just me or is Kobe warming up to the Celtics post-career? Makes sense, now that he doesn't have to compete against us anymore.



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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by bobheckler on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:30 am

dboss wrote:Brad may start Baynes when we go up against teams with big centers.  No need to tired out AH at the 5 against brutes.

One game does not make a season but Theis looks very much ahead of Yabusele.  Yabu did some banging and fought hard for additional possessions but on offense he looked off balance and somewhat clumsy.  That is just my opinion.

Theis replicated the highlight films I have been watching for the last few months.  He appears to be the best roll guy on the team.  He looks like a seasoned veteran.  

Smart took and made some nice three points shots but he also took some bad ones and missed badly.  I have mentioned before that he can become a more reliable player on offense if he takes less three point shots.  He needs more discipline with his shot selection.  He did however make Smart like plays on defense and going after 50/50 balls. There was a great play where he came out of nowhere to fight for a rebound.  That was a 40/60 play and he still managed to save a possession for Boston.

Terry had three steals last night.  He scored on an Irving like drive and layup, a smooth three pointer from the corner and a dunk off of one of his steals.

When Larkin came in the Celtics had lost their momentum and then he proceeded to take his man off the dribble twice for really nice layups.  He is a solid ball handler and provides another layer of depth at the point.

I am not all that concerned about Jaylen on defense.  I am still more concerned about his ability to make shots.

dboss


dboss,

I agree.  Smart hit some 3s, looked good doing it, but then showed his shot discipline hasn't improved at all.  He should hit a few shots, declare victory and go home and not think he's suddenly the Second Coming of MJ.  Kyrie?  Yeah, when he feels it he should keep shooting until the flesh on his fingers start to blister, but not Smart.

For a first game in the NBA Theis looked very, very good.  Baynesy showed more with his elbow jumpers but Theis showed a natural feel for pnr spacing that got him a few dunks and would have had more if he hadn't missed two.







Tatum and Theis seem to have some chemistry going.  Check out how many plays are Tatum-to-Theis or Theis-to-Tatum.




After a rookie jittery start, 0-6, Tatum started doing what we know he can.  Even some nice defense, including a block on Cody Zeller.





bob



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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by red16russ11 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:13 pm

Taped the game and watched it late.
I think KI and Hayward were in cruise control, and, as Bob said, not worried about them.
Al is Al
Once Tatum shook off the cobwebs, he played well, I thought.

LOVED Baynes and Theis.......LOVED them.

Yabba needs more dance lesssons, but I'm optimistic.

Smart looked great - nice and slim, and shot pretty well.

Nader was impressive....on offense. Rozier on D.
Larkin will make the team.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by mulcogiseng on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:40 pm

Not much to add that hasn't already been said. It was an enjoyable game to watch given it is only the first preseason game. Theis is ahead of Bear, as he should be with more years and pro experience. Guerschon's play reminded me of summer league last year. That first game in Utah showed more promise than fact. That changed in Vegas so I expect him to get much better, within the next two months. He's quick on his feet and has good instincts. But he was only cleared from rehab to start live play two weeks ago. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Larkin moves ahead of TRo at some point. We have a very deep team. We will learn more on Friday, but I really didn't see anything to complain about given the circumstances. Feel much better about this year's addition then I did with last year's.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by dboss on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:00 pm

Yabu grabbed 6 rebounds so at the very least he showed up on the glass.

If I was making a decision today Theis would be top 4 rotation for Bigs.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by bobheckler on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:14 pm

dboss wrote:Yabu grabbed 6 rebounds so at the very least he showed up on the glass.

If I was making a decision today Theis would be top 4 rotation for Bigs.

Dboss


dboss,

And he can run.  Last year, for running bigs, we had Zeller (whenever he played at least).  This year we have Yabby (and Theis).

#30, under the hoop after trying for an offensive rebound...

https://twitter.com/talkhoops/status/915005010357784576



bob



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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by worcester on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:35 pm

Funniest moment of the night (month, year?) - Tommy on Baynes:

“I took a look at Baynes in the shower. He looks like all of Australia. He is really put together.”

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/02/tommy-heinsohn-aron-baynes-shower-video
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by swish on Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:40 pm


After about 65 years of PRESEASONS involving baseball, football and basketball I'll pass for at least another 6 weeks before I'll be getting to serious about player evaluation.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by NYCelt on Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:11 pm

No way to judge anything from just one preseason game, but...

Positives;  This will be a talented and fun group to watch.  I think we'll see some high numbers go up on the scoreboard.  No need to overanalyze chemistry effect; this team and Cleveland will fight for the East. Smart is a point guard and team-leader.  He can shoot from deep enough to keep other teams honest and his selection will improve.  Tatum had his nervous rookie start; hey he's 19.  He showed enough through the game to let you know he's going to be special.  Theis showed enough to make us hope he gets more playing time next game.

Question marks; Interesting for all the talk of position-less basketball, they came out as traditional as you can get in the first quarter.  Recognizable plays and all. Could be particular to that starting lineup, however.  When they did go more to the "new look," it seemed like Boston was often behind at the read-line, and therefore slow in making basket-cuts.  Those were the only times ball movement suffered.

Despite the fact that I don't usually bother that much with the pre-season, in favor of the baseball playoffs, I'm looking forward to the remaining pre-season games.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by k_j_88 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:35 pm

Baynes and Theis are going to be a pair of enforcers in the middle. I was wondering who would step up to fill in that toughness role in addition to Smart.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by swish on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:45 pm

All you need to know about preseason is the fact that Durant, Curry, Green and Thompson went one for nineteen on three point shops.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by bobheckler on Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:19 pm

swish wrote:All you need to know about preseason is the fact that Durant, Curry, Green and Thompson went one for nineteen on three point shops.

  swish


swish,

All of this is part of the process and each part of the process should be recognized, appreciated and discounted for what it is, what it is not, and where it fits into the process.

Last night's game was not

1.  NCAA, where the teams might have a couple of players on each squad that might be drafted into the NBA, but 2/3 - 3/4 of the players will not.  Zero NBA experience.
2.  Summer league, where the teams might have a couple of players on each squad that might be invited to camp, but 2/3 - 3/4 of the players will not.  Limited NBA experience.

Last night's game was

1.  NBA basketball, where the teams have a couple of players who will NOT make the team, but 2/3 - 3/4 of the players WILL.  NBA starters and veteran bench players getting minutes.  That is a significant difference in quality of talent and execution.  Are they in playoff form?  Of course not, but even where they are now either team could easily beat any of the two prior pieces of the process.  Blindfolded.

2.  Every starter on the Hornets played 21-24 minutes.  Not heavy minutes, but enough to project their impact, and the players they started are probably their regular season starters.

3.  Every Celtic starter played 16-20 minutes only and Baynes and Brown might not be regular starters.  Lighter minutes, meaning their starters played minutes against our bench.  Rookie Jayson Tatum played game-high 33 minutes.


My point is that prepping our bench for the season is an essential part of the process.  Steph Curry (and Kyrie and Gordon) can miss every shot but it doesn't matter because everybody knows they'll hit them 3 weeks from now.  What matters, at this point in the process, is how well does the offense execute, how well does the defense adjust and rotate and how well does the bench play against quality and that's what we saw last night.


bob


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by swish on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:26 pm

bobheckler wrote:
swish wrote:All you need to know about preseason is the fact that Durant, Curry, Green and Thompson went one for nineteen on three point shops.

  swish


swish,

All of this is part of the process and each part of the process should be recognized, appreciated and discounted for what it is, what it is not, and where it fits into the process.

Last night's game was not

1.  NCAA, where the teams might have a couple of players on each squad that might be drafted into the NBA, but 2/3 - 3/4 of the players will not.  Zero NBA experience.
2.  Summer league, where the teams might have a couple of players on each squad that might be invited to camp, but 2/3 - 3/4 of the players will not.  Limited NBA experience.

Last night's game was

1.  NBA basketball, where the teams have a couple of players who will NOT make the team, but 2/3 - 3/4 of the players WILL.  NBA starters and veteran bench players getting minutes.  That is a significant difference in quality of talent and execution.  Are they in playoff form?  Of course not, but even where they are now either team could easily beat any of the two prior pieces of the process.  Blindfolded.

2.  Every starter on the Hornets played 21-24 minutes.  Not heavy minutes, but enough to project their impact, and the players they started are probably their regular season starters.

3.  Every Celtic starter played 16-20 minutes only and Baynes and Brown might not be regular starters.  Lighter minutes, meaning their starters played minutes against our bench.  Rookie Jayson Tatum played game-high 33 minutes.


My point is that prepping our bench for the season is an essential part of the process.  Steph Curry (and Kyrie and Gordon) can miss every shot but it doesn't matter because everybody knows they'll hit them 3 weeks from now.  What matters, at this point in the process, is how well does the offense execute, how well does the defense adjust and rotate and how well does the bench play against quality and that's what we saw last night.


bob


.

bob

It will be a cold day in hell when I take any serious stock in how well (or how poorly) rookies or bench players fair against seasoned starters in preseason games - especially during the 1st few days. And for the veteran stars - in my opinion - its even less important that they be judged at such an early date. For the most part they have nothing to prove. In any event that's the way I have been viewing it ever sense (back in the forties) when I read about hot shot rookies burning up the grapefruit league - only to fizzle out once the big boys started to take the game to a higher level as they headed back north.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

Post by dboss on Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:46 pm

I wanted to share another observation with the group.  I watched the Celts/Hornets again to verify what I thought I saw with respect to Marcus Smart.  In particular he has changed the way he shoots the 3 ball.  

Last year he shot the ball really  high and the release point was middle to the back of his head.  In the Hornets game his release point is more to the front and lower.  It is a slight adjustment but maybe a more comfortable and compact shot for him.

I will be checking that out in the Philly game on Friday.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Charlotte

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