Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

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Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:28 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978747


No Embiid, no Saric, no Fultz. We should have killed these guys, and we didn't. Not liking that.

Irving looked great.
Hayward, meh. Some chemistry issues, I think.
Tatum started, 5 boards and 9 points in 22 minutes.

Yabby with a 1-5 night but 6 boards and 2 steals in 14 minutes. I'm good with that for a 2nd NBA game.

I LIKE THEIS!!! 5 boards, 2 blocks in 10 minutes. He outfought Kris Humphries and Emeka Okafor for an offensive put back. Anybody who wondered if he will be a rotation player this year needs to watch him play.

Baynes looking excellent again. Him and Theis and a decent game by Yabby is making me feel a little better about our bigs.


Smart was Smart. He is unreal. https://twitter.com/celtics/status/916465787556184064
Also 4-6, 2-2 from 3. His shooting has been quite good so far this year. Here's hopin'...


Nader and Semi with serious cases of nerves. Nader 1-8 and Semi with 2 blown layups.

Larkin underwhelmed me.

The heart of their offense was Bayless and Redick, who shot 10-15 for 27 points. That's embarrassing.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by fierce on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:32 pm

I think Semi is just too small to be a PF in the NBA.

Larkin, just like what I predicted weeks ago, is nothing special.

Yabu is not better than Theis.

Nader is one-dimensional.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by dboss on Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:53 pm

Philly will not be bad this year.  They are loaded with talent so no one should be surprised if they play us tough.  They probably have more young pure talent than any team in the NBA and three of their top young players were in street close.

Within a year or two Philly will be the main competition in the East.

Kyrie can really shoot the ball.

Tatum played PF which just shows his versatility.

Did you see the way Smart shot the ball?  His release point and foot placement is difference.  He played great at both ends.  The play where he ripped the ball away was unreal.

Baynes was solid again and Terry looked really good.

Yabu played pretty good defense and rebounded well as did Theis.

Larkin and Nader were both below average.

I thought the ball movement by both the starters and main rotation players was good.

Overall a good outing for a team that is still getting acquainted


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by kdp59 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:34 am

Only notes I would add is that Nader does not handle the ball well, he seems more like a small SF than a guard, to me at least.

Theis is not getting enough playing time against others teams top players. I want to see how he does against real NBA players, not end of bench guys.

I am not sure why Semi and Yabusele are getting major rotation minutes, neither one has shown anything in either game to be playing that much, IMO.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by beat on Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:37 am

kdp59 wrote:Only notes I would add is that Nader does not handle the ball well, he seems more like a small SF than a guard, to me at least.

Theis is not getting enough playing time against others teams top players. I want to see how he does against real NBA players, not  end of bench guys.

I am not sure why Semi and Yabusele are getting major rotation minutes, neither one has shown anything in either game to be playing that much, IMO.

We have had exactly 2 preseason games and you complain about a player that isn't getting enough time???

What happens in the preseason is Stevens searching for combos that appear to click. Gonna take time even a month or so into the meaningful games for that to happen. In the meantime patience is needed.

And no teams are playing any of their stars big minutes anyway.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:54 am

kdp59 wrote:Only notes I would add is that Nader does not handle the ball well, he seems more like a small SF than a guard, to me at least.

Theis is not getting enough playing time against others teams top players. I want to see how he does against real NBA players, not  end of bench guys.

I am not sure why Semi and Yabusele are getting major rotation minutes, neither one has shown anything in either game to be playing that much, IMO.


kdp,

So far I agree with you about Nader, he seems to be a SF and not a multi-position player. We'll see if he grows into it.

Theis is an NBA rookie. He didn't even get to spend time playing pick up games with the team during September because he was playing for Germany in the Euro tournament. Letting him play against NBA 10-12th players is a good introduction to the NBA. The issues here are readiness and priorities. If he can handle that, and it sure looks like he can, then it won't be that much of a stretch for him to play 8th men, but why rush him? A couple pre-season games to flatten out his learning curve is ok. Furthermore, with Morris now here Theis will likely be our 4th big (Horford, Morris, Baynes and then Theis). That would make him, about, a 10th-12th man. Brad's priorities are to ramp up 1-3 before #4.

Maybe Brad is playing Semi and Yabusele so much is that he's trying to establish where they fall on the depth chart. Brad will want a player who is strong and rugged and yet can get up and down the court and shoot 3s. That would be both Semi and Yabby. Play them both, see who might be better to fill that role and put the other one behind them on the depth chart.

It's pre-season. This is when coaches go into games with the premeditated plan of throwing some darts.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by fierce on Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:07 am

Yabu and Ojeleye are not that important because they'll just be the 12th and 11th man on the depth chart.

Maybe next season they'll get better.

I think Theis will be ahead of Yabu and Oje on the depth chart.

You can really see Theis making a difference when he's on the court.

I really thought Ojeleye would be better than Yabu.
But it looks like Ojeleye is too undersized for the NBA.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by k_j_88 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:08 am

A few things...

-Philly does not play good defense at all. We were getting great looks consistently. They're very talented but are going to lose a bunch of games nonetheless.

-Kyrie was draining shots. His handle is unbelievable. He's an adept passer, too. He said he wanted to become a greater point guard, and I think that'll come to fruition very soon. This trade is looking sweeter each game.

-Hayward really fits well in this system. He also plays better defense than I was expecting.

-Smart and Rozier both looked comfortable and too quick for Philly to defend them. They shot a combined 7-13 for 24 points. Marcus had a few stunning plays. He's the glue guy and he's embracing it.

-Brown is looking more patient on offense and Tatum played pretty well, too. They were 8-17 for 19 points. Brown had a few nice defensive plays too. I think he could become that lockdown defender before the end of the regular season.

-Baynes *loves* to hit people. It's awesome. 12 points and 5 rebounds is solid production off the bench. He's going to be a huge help to Horford.

-Ojeleye is struggling. Yabusele appears to be further ahead in his development.

-Boston took 97 shots to Philly's 83.

I suspect that had this been a regular season game, we'd have blown them out. Philly only caught up at the end during garbage time.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:48 am

k_j_88 wrote:A few things...

-Philly does not play good defense at all. We were getting great looks consistently. They're very talented but are going to lose a bunch of games nonetheless.

-Kyrie was draining shots. His handle is unbelievable. He's an adept passer, too. He said he wanted to become a greater point guard, and I think that'll come to fruition very soon. This trade is looking sweeter each game.

-Hayward really fits well in this system. He also plays better defense than I was expecting.

-Smart and Rozier both looked comfortable and too quick for Philly to defend them. They shot a combined 7-13 for 24 points. Marcus had a few stunning plays. He's the glue guy and he's embracing it.

-Brown is looking more patient on offense and Tatum played pretty well, too. They were 8-17 for 19 points. Brown had a few nice defensive plays too. I think he could become that lockdown defender before the end of the regular season.

-Baynes *loves* to hit people. It's awesome. 12 points and 5 rebounds is solid production off the bench. He's going to be a huge help to Horford.

-Ojeleye is struggling. Yabusele appears to be further ahead in his development.

-Boston took 97 shots to Philly's 83.

I suspect that had this been a regular season game, we'd have blown them out. Philly only caught up at the end during garbage time.


KJ


KJ,

"I suspect that had this been a regular season game, we'd have blown them out. Philly only caught up at the end during garbage time."

If this had been a regular season game I suspect Embiid, Saric and Fultz would have played.  Those are big, big, big differences from the squad we beat last night.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by k_j_88 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:54 am

BobH,

I think Embiid is still a 7-foot tall question mark. I can't say with any degree of certainty if he'll ever materialize into the player the 26ers are hoping for.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:04 pm

k_j_88 wrote:BobH,

I think Embiid is still a 7-foot tall question mark. I can't say with any degree of certainty if he'll ever materialize into the player the 26ers are hoping for.


KJ


KJ,

It all boils down to whether he can stay on the court. If he can get past these injuries (BIG "if") he will be a franchise player. Already, when he is healthy, he is one of the top centers in the league. He only played 31 games last year.

Saric and Fultz would have changed the game last night, at least. Saric is a very tough cover. If Fultz had played at least that would have gotten Bayless off the court. Bayless was killing us last night too.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:44 pm

Tom Westerholm @Tom_NBA
about 1 hour ago
Re-watched the first half -- I counted three open Sixers threes that were a direct result of Kyrie's PnR defense. One because of Tatum.
reply retweet like


bob
MY NOTE:  I have not been impressed with our perimeter and pnr defense so far.  This is where we are really missing AB.  Jaylen isn't doing that great a job neither on guards, Redick and Bayless had field days last night running him off picks and getting open shots.  There is something to be said to having "right-sized" defenders as opposed to just "bigger and longer".  Still time for Jaylen, of course, to get a bit craftier.  


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by sinus007 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:45 pm

Hi,
I wonder why Brad didn't put Morris in? He was there ready to go.

AK
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:09 pm

Dboss,

You were right about Smart's shooting mechanics, they are MUCH better!  He isn't pulling the ball as far back behind his head where he loses sight of it, and also needs a bigger motion to get it out of his hands, and that is a BIG difference.  HUGE!

His "Marcus Smart Moment" is around the 2:00 mark.  They show it again, close up, at about 2:40.  Un.  Real.









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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by dboss on Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:59 pm

kdp59 wrote:Only notes I would add is that Nader does not handle the ball well, he seems more like a small SF than a guard, to me at least.

Theis is not getting enough playing time against others teams top players. I want to see how he does against real NBA players, not  end of bench guys.

I am not sure why Semi and Yabusele are getting major rotation minutes, neither one has shown anything in either game to be playing that much, IMO.

One of the challenges of this preseason is a limited number of games. Last night 13 players played at least 10 minutes as brad is doing a great job giving a lot of players an opportunity to break a sweat.

I think you may have missed Yabusele's contribution last night. He played 16 minutes and grabbed 8 rebounds, 3 on the offensive glass and he had 2 steals. He has not scored the ball well.

Theis had limited touches but also played well with 6 rebounds and 2 blocks. Both of those players will be on our active 12 man roster. Both will have an opportunity to play with the starters during rotational situations. I am quite pleased with what those guys bring to the table.

Once Brad was basically playing 2nd and 3rd team players there was a breakdown on both end. Offensively they were not moving. They also had lapses on defense. That is to be expected.

Nadar did not handle the pressure when he was handling the ball up top. Larkin also struggled.

Winning a preseason game is nice but I think the main focus is getting so many new player comfortable in the system.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by dboss on Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:19 pm

bobheckler wrote:Dboss,

You were right about Smart's shooting mechanics, they are MUCH better!  He isn't pulling the ball as far back behind his head where he loses sight of it, and also needs a bigger motion to get it out of his hands, and that is a BIG difference.  HUGE!

His "Marcus Smart Moment" is around the 2:00 mark.  They show it again, close up, at about 2:40.  Un.  Real.








bob


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Bob

This is very significant.  

What I am seeing from Marcus is the ability to push the pace because he is flat out quicker.  His shot is smooth...wow, and his handle is tight.

His defense is amazing.  That play where he ripped the ball away with one hand in a sustained tug of war battle then dove on the floor to take possession and still had the presence of mind to pass the ball to an open man was the definitive Marcus Smart play.  I do not know if there is another player in the NBA that could come close to making a similar play.  He is so good that a great defensive play could be referred to as a "Marcus Smart" defensive play. In other words they could define a great defensive play in terms of Marcus Smart.

He is most likely to be our 6th man.  That is a historically significant designation for the Boston Celtics.  He is the guy that can bolt together the starting unit with the rotation.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:16 pm

dboss wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Dboss,

You were right about Smart's shooting mechanics, they are MUCH better!  He isn't pulling the ball as far back behind his head where he loses sight of it, and also needs a bigger motion to get it out of his hands, and that is a BIG difference.  HUGE!

His "Marcus Smart Moment" is around the 2:00 mark.  They show it again, close up, at about 2:40.  Un.  Real.








bob


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Bob

This is very significant.  

What I am seeing from Marcus is the ability to push the pace because he is flat out quicker.  His shot is smooth...wow, and his handle is tight.

His defense is amazing.  That play where he ripped the ball away with one hand in a sustained tug of war battle then dove on the floor to take possession and still had the presence of mind to pass the ball to an open man was the definitive Marcus Smart play.  I do not know if there is another player in the NBA that could come close to making a similar play.  He is so good that a great defensive play could be referred to as a "Marcus Smart" defensive play.  In other words they could define a great defensive play in terms of Marcus Smart.

He is most likely to be our 6th man.  That is a historically significant designation for the Boston Celtics.  He is the guy that can bolt together the starting unit with the rotation.

dboss


dboss,

He WILL be our 6th man.  Brad talked to him about starting him or not and Smart told him to bring him off the bench.  He likes it and he said "we have a lot of young guys there now and I know how to play every position so put me out there with them".  What an amazing attitude he has!  Nobody throws up more 3/4 court chuck shots at the end of a quarter than him because everybody else is afraid missing will bring down their numbers and he doesn't give a rat's ass about stats.  Everybody else (except for Jason Terry, I guess) wants to start, wants to hear their name being called.

And, yes, Sixth Man has a very, very significant role on the Boston Celtics.  I hope Smart has sufficiently delved and embraced Celtics history to understand and appreciate that.

Being an All-Star usually requires averaging 20ppg, unfortunately, because it's an offensively-oriented selection.  If he averages 15ppg on better shooting and plays defense like the way he does, he's an All-Star in my book.


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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by kdp59 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:35 pm

I should note I wasn't complaining as much as saying what I would like to see Theis play more against better players to see what we really have.

Theis is a guy who has grown on me from watching some of his play in the Euro-whatever they call it games. When Danny signed him, I thought OK another end of the bencher Euro guy no one ever heard of to sit and watch for a year , before heading back to Europe.

But his play against the NBA players this summers has me thinking he might actually be a valuable rotation player, taken into account our lack of big men.

But's it is hard to know just how much help he can be in real games , only seeing him play against players who likely will rarely play in real NBA games.

I understand the coaching staff sees what they have in practice and such and that whatever rotations they use in these games are meaningless come the season start. Perhaps the staff already knows he can hold his own against or own Big men, so they don't feel the need to "show" him.

either way, we will find out in a few weeks.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by dboss on Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:04 pm

kdp59 wrote:I should note I wasn't complaining as much as saying what I would like to see Theis play more against better players to see what we really have.

Theis is a guy who has grown on me from watching some of his play in the Euro-whatever they call it games. When Danny signed him, I thought OK another end of the bencher Euro guy no one ever heard of to sit  and watch for a year , before heading back to Europe.

But his play against the NBA players this summers has me thinking he might actually be a valuable rotation player, taken into account our lack of big men.

But's it is hard to know just how much help he can be in real games , only seeing him play against players who likely will rarely play in real NBA games.

I understand the coaching staff sees what they have in practice and such and that whatever rotations they use in these games are meaningless come the season start. Perhaps the staff already knows he can hold his own against or own Big men, so they don't feel the need to "show" him.

either way, we will find out in a few weeks.


Given limited options for bigs I am pretty sure that Theis will be in the rotation. Only 2 games played and I would wager that Brad will get Theis in there playing more prime time minutes.

While none of us are experts, I think that everyone agrees that Theis is an NBA quality player. He is a fundamentally sound rebounder, has great hands and big hops and he can block shots. On offense he is the quickest roll quy on the team and he has the range and touch to make the 3 ball. What's not to like. Perhaps we should spend less time concerned about the pecking order between him and Yabu and focus more on how each of them add value to this team.

I guarantee that we are going to see both of them in the rotation and at times both of them will play together.

Danny has upgraded our front line. Good job Danny.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by dboss on Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:22 pm

One of the most significant developments was the utilization of 3 SF to start the game.

I was surprised to see Tatum at PF matched up with the bigger Ben Simmons. Tatum more then held his own.

With the plethora of SF's on this team I think we will see a lot more of this during the season.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:30 pm

I was very pleased with Tatums overall game and defense in the last game, he is thin, but will be a match up nightmare as a 4 on offense for our opponents.
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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by dboss on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:36 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:I was very pleased with Tatums overall game and defense in the last game, he is thin, but will be a match up nightmare as a 4 on offense for our opponents.

Jason more than held his own against Simmons. Of course that is rookie against rookie so no need to bookmark that experience. I will say however that despite the lack of girth, Jason is very strong and uses his length very well.

Danny sees Tatum as our future starting PF.

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Re: Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:58 pm

dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I was very pleased with Tatums overall game and defense in the last game, he is thin, but will be a match up nightmare as a 4 on offense for our opponents.

Jason more than held his own against Simmons.  Of course that is rookie against rookie so no need to bookmark that experience.  I will say however that despite the lack of girth, Jason is very strong and uses his length very well.

Danny sees Tatum as our future starting PF.  

dboss


he already looks taller than 6'8" to my eye, only a baby at 19, he is just gonna get taller and stronger. What can I say, except I see a future multiple all star type? He could easily be just a forward, like the way Larry Bird was, kill you at the 3 or 4.
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