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Post by RosalieTCeltics on Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:21 pm

They just announced on Comcast that they were given the $8 million dollar relief to sign someone. Will they use it? And does this mean, Hayward will not be coming back even for playoffs???
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Post by KyleCleric on Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:59 pm

Sixers have until 10/31 to decide whether to pick up Okafor's option. They're supposedly looking to trade him. He could fit under the exception assuming the option is declined.

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Post by dboss on Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:04 pm

I think it should be used to sign a shooter/scorer off the bench.  If DA wants to sure up the Big rotation Jahil could be an option but they will want something in return.

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Post by jrleftfoot on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:39 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:They just announced on Comcast that they were given the $8 million dollar relief to sign someone. Will they use it? And does this mean, Hayward will not be coming back even for playoffs???
I just read that he can return without penalty to him or the acquired player.
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Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:46 am

not a bad deal, huh?
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Post by jrleftfoot on Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:31 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:not a bad deal, huh?
Not at all
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Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:32 pm

http://celticswire.com/2017/10/27/report-boston-celtics-granted-8-4m-disabled-player-exception-for-gordon-hayward-injury/



Report: Boston Celtics granted $8.4m Disabled Player Exception for Gordon Hayward injury





$8 million dollar cap relief to sign replacement for Hayward Gettyimages-856829670




By: Jared Weiss | 17 hours ago





The Boston Celtics have received the $8.4 million disabled player exception from the NBA after Gordon Hayward suffered what is expected to be a season ending injury, reports Shams Charania of The Vertical.




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$8 million dollar cap relief to sign replacement for Hayward Jajd1pZ4_normalShams Charania 

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[ltr]Sources: The NBA has granted Boston an $8.4M disabled player exception for the loss of Gordon Hayward for the season. The DPE expires March 10.[/ltr]




4:49 PM - Oct 27, 2017



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The NBA awards disabled player exceptions upon request when the league’s Fitness to Play panel or a league-approved doctor determines it unlikely for a player to return before the end of the NBA finals (June 15). The Celtics have not put a concrete timetable on Hayward’s return, but have been consistent that they do not expect him to return this season.

While there is a general consensus that the ankle dislocation and tibia fracture he suffered carries an average 4-6 month recovery timeframe, the Celtics have been purposefully vague to relieve pressure on Hayward to return and attempt to secure the disabled player exception.

Boston came into the regular season with an empty roster spot with the expectation of making an acquisiton sometime down the road, even before the Hayward injury. This $8,406,000 — mind that extra $6,000 — million exception gives them the ability to trade for a player on an expiring deal up to this amount, essentially the same as a trade exception. The Celtics will be close to smacking their heads against the luxury tax if they use the whole exception, although there doesn’t appear to be anyone available under the parameters of the DPE that would make them cross the line. While most exceptions begin to decline at a prorated value starting January 10, the DPE remains at $8.4 million until it expires on March 10.

The exception can also be used to sign a player, however it is rare for a player to sign during the season for more than the veteran minimum. Boston has until March 10 to use the exception. If Boston does not use it before the February 8th trade deadline, it could be useful in the buyout market, as Boston would be one of the few teams competing for buyout candidates that could make a significant offer. Late season signings tend to be a prorated portion of the minimum, but Boston would technically be able to make a higher offer.


POTENTIAL TARGETS


The most logical use of the exception would be in a trade. Boston can take in $8,506,000 in salary in the trade, for only one player who is an expiring contract without a team option. Like a trade exception, Boston cannot send out any additional players. Just picks.

There are a few interesting options for Boston, some of which could even have long-term benefits. First are two players at the end of their rookie deals, about to hit unrestricted free agency with an eye toward finding a better market away from their current teams.

NERLENS NOEL


Noel is the most obvious connection to Boston with this exception. He is in an increasingly untenable situation in Dallas, where their offseason restricted free agency negotiations fell apart and he took the $4.187 million qualifying offer to hit unrestricted free agency next season. While the Mavericks still hold his bird rights, those rights disappear for the team that trades for him when he waives his no-trade clause.

Noel has a no-trade clause because he is on a one-year QO, so he would have to approve a trade to Boston. Noel would have to be committed to leaving Dallas this offseason to waive the clause, as he would not be able to re-sign with the Celtics for more than the $8.6 million non-taxpayer mid-level exception or $5.3 million taxpayer MLE, depending on whether Boston re-signs Marcus Smart. Noel reportedly turned down a four-year $70 million deal from Dallas in July with an eye towards more than $20 million a year, so his market would have to collapse for him to take even the full MLE. It should also be noted that returning to one’s hometown is not always a draw, considering the attention and requests that come from family and the old neighborhood.

A former pillar of The Process in Philly, Noel has worked his way back into the Mavs’ starting lineup in big man matchups such as Memphis, but has played just nine minutes more than his backup, former Celtic Dwight Powell. Noel currently is a bench rotation player with occasional matchup-dependent starting duties, not too dissimilar to what his role would be in Boston.

He has been impressively efficient offensively with his low usage, ranking 9th in the NBA in overall offensive points per possession per Synergy for players using over 35 possessions total. This is a statistically insignificant small sample size for projecting long-term performance, but it’s an indicator that he is doing what he does well. He still shows the potential to be a three-phase defender that could thrive in Stevens’ switching system while being probably the most effective interior defender on the team. His offensive game is still almost exclusively at the rim, but he has the fluid movement and athletic burst to flow within the offense and not be a minus player.

More prescient for Noel, he would be in a renowned player development franchise that has a track record of role players getting big contracts (see Olynyk, Kelly; Turner, Evan; likely Bradley, Avery and potentially Smart, Marcus). Noel is only 23, so nobody would blink at tossing him a four-year deal.

But the big questions is whether the Celtics could make this happen. Dallas would want a first-round pick, but the league has clearly established first-round picks to be valued beyond rotation players on expiring deals. Considering Boston would be likely renting him, with his market projecting higher than the MLE, they would be faced with the same situation as last season, when they wouldn’t surrender Terry Rozier or a first-round pick to acquire Serge Ibaka.

Boston could put together a package of second-rounders similar to what Dallas offered with Justin Anderson to acquire Noel, but they don’t have one available until 2020 depending on whether pick protections force their ’18 and ’19 picks to be conveyed.
It doesn’t make much sense for Dallas to do it for anything less than a future first, as they would get more value out of trying to make it work with Noel and getting his production this season. Especially with Dirk Nowitzki on the verge of retirement, it makes little sense for Dallas to unload a player who still carried loads of potential as a starter unless he says he won’t re-sign. That’s a big…unless?


JULIUS RANDLE


Randle is another guy who could be worth going into the tax to retain. There’s still so much potential for him to be a versatile defensive forward who can attack the rim on offense. He still hasn’t proven to be a consistent shooter, much like the man picked before him Marcus Smart. LA continues to be frustrated with his non-linear development. But he screams potential in a way that Noel doesn’t.

The Lakers are hoping to move on from Randle to open up space for two max players — one of whom would be LeBron James — but this trade works for them if they’re just set on moving him anyway. Kyle Kuzma may have made Randle dispensable already with his early play and Larry Nance, Jr. is starting over him already. Boston won’t offer an unprotected first, but it could be plausible for them to offer one with protections to make it to split into second-rounders in the future.


SHABAZZ MUHAMMAD & BEBE NOGUIERA


These are two players who serve simple roles in a rotation on teams who will likely not retain them because of the tax line. Muhammad is a capable scorer who also…knows how to tie his shoes? Bebe is an impressive interior defender who is a behemoth down low and can move. These are deep rotation guys who could be retained in the future for the taxpayer MLE or even the bi-annual, so surrendering a second-rounder off in the future would be tenable.


JABARI PARKER


This is a big wild card and would probably take the Lakers/Kings pick to get it done. There’s no question Jabari Parker’s talent merits at least this pick and probably plenty more, but his harrowing injury history cuts his trade value down. He may get the max this offseason, as the Bucks know he is definitely worth it from a production perspective, but teams who do not have a long medical relationship with him may be scared to make that big of a commitment. If Milwaukee had the chance at a top five pick in a loaded draft,  would they consider moving on from Parker to minimize the risk of one of their core players’ careers failing due to injury?

Enter Boston, who could take a massive gamble. Parker has comparable potential to pretty much any of the players in this upcoming draft, but has proven to be a borderline All-Star trending toward perennial All-Star. Typically, a 22-year-old of his caliber would be preferable to maybe even the number one pick, but he has now torn his left ACL twice in the past three years. Considering the early returns on similar players Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, adding Parker with his injury history does not seem worth it.

From Milwaukee’s perspective, they would have to have serious concerns about Parker’s potential to regain his explosiveness after tearing the knee in his launching leg twice. Then they would need to be seriously concerned that his knee could tear again. Otherwise, why break up their core when they are all on the same timeline and are marching toward the top of the East?


JAHLIL OKAFOR


This one is pretty straight forward. Okafor has no market and no team in the league is offering anything for him right now. Chris Haynes of ESPN put out a report earlier Friday that clearly implied some desperation by both Philly and Okafor’s camp to get him traded before his option deadline next week. Boston can have him for free if Philly agrees to decline his option. The approval of the DPE times up perfectly with the rookie option deadline, so perhaps Boston is looking to make a move like this in the coming days.

Okafor is one of the biggest flops for a top-three pick in recent history, but those “busts” often find a second career for themselves as a reserve scorer on a new team. He doesn’t really fit the Celtics’ offense and definitely does not fit their defensive system. The only value of an Okafor deal would be to take in a player who still has potential to thrive in a new environment without giving up anything. Philly doesn’t need cash considerations and their only benefit would be to not have him as a distraction anymore. That might be enough incentive for them to do it.



PRODUCTIVE VETERANS


These guys are still effective rotation players, primarily specializing in one or two things on offense. they are expiring deals on teams that are unlikely to pay them with their future cap situation. These teams can get by this year without them, so securing future assets for players who are heading out the door soon makes sense. These are realistic targets for Boston to swoop in with a pair of second-rounders off in the future.


ED DAVIS


Davis was one of the best sixth men in the league last year and continues to be a key rotation player for the Blazers. But they are looking to keep Jusuf Nurkic when he hits free agency this offseason and are already too close to the tax to keep Davis. He would be a valuable part of Boston’s rotation and could be retained on the MLE this offseason.


LOU WILLIAMS


Williams is an offensive supernova who can shoot and playmake from anywhere. He’s been a perrenial sixth man of the year contender, beating out Evan Turner for the title when he was in Toronto two years ago. No team keeps him for more than a year — or even half a year — but he’s one of those wins-you-a-playoff-game kind of guys.



THE ERIC BLEDSOE DEAL


Boston could find themselves facilitating an eventual Bledsoe deal by absording a player into the exception. They can only take in a player and cannot send one out, so their function in this trade would be to toss in a second-rounder to take in a player the teams don’t want. Denver is a favorite to land Bledsoe for likely Emmanuel Mudiay and Kenneth Faried or Darrell Arthur, but they don’t need Boston to make salaries match. Even if Denver was willing to take on Tyson Chandler, they could include all those players to make it match. There are infinite permutations of this kind of deal where Boston could find themselves useful as an absorbing third team.

But as of now, this is purely Boston incentivizing their inclusion in the deal by tossing a pick up for grabs. They could also do these trades independently. Each of these teams has a young rotation player they are likely to move on from this offseason, so trying to get at least a rental for a second makes sense.


ALEX LEN


This is a weird one, as Phoenix doesn’t have much of a cap impetus to move him. But it just simply hasn’t worked out for him in Phoenix and they have both Alan Williams and Dragan Bender taking his spots in the rotation in the near future. Phoenix has his bird rights and plenty of cap space to keep him, but Len doesn’t seem to present much upside there anymore. Phoenix’s franchise direction is up in the air and Len could find himself packaged in the eventual Eric Bledsoe deal.

He would add a different component to Boston’s rotation this season and potentially thrive in a new situation. Boston could get him without giving up anything and have a former number five pick to observe for a year and decide if he’s worth using the MLE on this summer.


WILL BARTON


Barton would be a good replacement for Hayward’s scoring production this season. He is a jack of all trades scorer, being potent both in transition and in the half court. He can score in iso, play off-ball anywhere on the floor and spot-up on the weak side. He is probably the most direct replacement for Hayward that is reasonably available. If Denver sent Barton to Boston and Emmanuel Mudiay and Darrell Arthur to Phoenix, they could take in Eric Bledsoe. Phoenix would get a new young starting point guard and Denver would get their guy.



bob
MY NOTE:  Shame Charania with almost 1.1 MILLION retweets about a Celtics DPE.  Wow.


Any thoughts on his player ideas?


.
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Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:57 pm

So, whoever they can get can only come via free agency or signing. Can a player from the Celtics be included in a trade, or is it just a player being signed? Does that make sense.

In other words would any of the young players be shipped out to facilitate a signing?
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Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:58 pm

So, whoever they can get can only come via free agency or signing. Can a player from the Celtics be included in a trade, or is it just a player being signed? Does that make sense.

In other words would any of the young players be shipped out to facilitate a signing?
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Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:30 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:So, whoever they can get can only come via free agency or signing. Can a player from the Celtics be included in a trade, or is it just a player being signed? Does that make sense.

In other words would any of the young players be shipped out to facilitate a signing?


Rosalie,

Apparently, the answer to your question is 'No'.


Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA

1 hour ago

Celtics can’t trade for Mirotic because his salary is $12 million and the $8.4 million DPE can only be used in isolation with picks. 


bob


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Post by kdp59 on Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:03 pm

Ed Davis is an interesting suggestion.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davised01.html

strong rebounder, solid shot blocker and good length.

might be just what Danny ordered for depth up front.
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Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:42 pm

Thanks Bob, for posting the article detailing possibities. I didn't quite realize that type of talent was possible with this. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. Although the bigger names are glitzier, might be better if we can get someone we could sign later rather than a one year rental.

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Post by k_j_88 on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:58 pm

Go get a shooter, Danny!


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Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:57 pm

k_j_88 wrote:Go get a shooter, Danny!


KJ
KJ,

How about Mr. Herky-Jerky?  Jordan Crawford?
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Post by fierce on Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:12 pm

Celts are doing fine right now.

No need to rush signing or trading for anyone.

Giving guys like Theis and Ojeleye minutes will payoff in the near future.
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Post by bobheckler on Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:21 pm

Scal is saying that they might wait until after the trade deadline when a lot of veterans get bought out.  We can offer them more than the vet's minimum then.


bob


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Post by NYCelt on Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:23 am

bobheckler wrote:Scal is saying that they might wait until after the trade deadline when a lot of veterans get bought out.  We can offer them more than the vet's minimum then.


bob


.

That would seem like the most intelligent move. It also gives more time to younger players now, and a better look at what we have. No hurry. Not a bad position to be in, all things considered.
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Post by KyleCleric on Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:47 am

Can be opportunistic at the trade deadline. Instead of buying out, the other team can save money by trade instead.

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Post by Phil Pressey on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:30 am

Maybe the Celtics want to wait and see how Gordon Hayward heals. Four to six months lines up with the playoffs. Yet, they would be foolish to not secure this option if he can't return until next season.

I think we need a backup for Baynes.

Our shooting seems good enough? Memphis has had Marc Gasol. Golden State had Bogut? Al Horford looks rejuvenated. It didn't look feasible to shift him to power forward. But he seems quicker this year, perhaps due to finally being comfortable with Brad's philosophies.
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Post by Phil Pressey on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:32 am

Sorry. I tried to shrink the Pressey avatar, but it's still out of control.
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Post by mrkleen09 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:44 pm

This exception in no way influences Gordon's ability to return when he is ready.  Sign someone at the trade deadline and as long as you have a roster slot open, Hayward can return at any point to join the team.
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Post by gyso on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:28 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:This exception in no way influences Gordon's ability to return when he is ready.  Sign someone at the trade deadline and as long as you have a roster slot open, Hayward can return at any point to join the team.

kleen,

Your last sentence should read:

Sign someone at the trade deadline as long as you have a roster slot open, and Hayward can return at any point to join the team.

Hayward continues to take up one of the 15 one way roster slots, regardless of the injury and/or the exception.  The exception is just the instrument that will be used to add a player when the team is over the sal-cap.  We'll need a open roster slot to use it.

Basically, use the exception before March 1 AND before Hayward returns.

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Post by mrkleen09 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:36 am

gyso wrote:

kleen,

Your last sentence should read:

Sign someone at the trade deadline as long as you have a roster slot open, and Hayward can return at any point to join the team.

Hayward continues to take up one of the 15 one way roster slots, regardless of the injury and/or the exception.  The exception is just the instrument that will be used to add a player when the team is over the sal-cap.  We'll need a open roster slot to use it.

Basically, use the exception before March 1 AND before Hayward returns.

gyso

Dont even know who would be considered 14th on this team at this point, likely Bird? But my point was, it isnt an either you get the exception or you get the injured player back. Once the exception is granted you one has nothing to do with the other.

IMO, it comes down to where they are when the trade deadline comes around. If they are still on this current pace - then they are a contender with our without Gordon, so would likely go get a proven vet to help down the stretch. If they are in the 5th to 8th position for example (dont see there being any chance of this), then maybe DA surmises that it is better to keep Bird or Yabusele on the team and let them take their lumps, which will only help in the future.

I think what happens is that Celtics continue on a great pace, are the #1 seed in the east, pick up a player like Nerlens Noel or Jamil Okafor, and Hayward comes back by April 1 - and makes and impact in the playoffs. Time will tell.
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