Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by bobheckler on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:30 am

fierce wrote:And as expected, the Wizards are beating the crap out of the Lakers tonight.


7 Lakers in double digits.  That's often enough to get the job done.  The problem was they shot 36% on the game.

Ball was 3-10.  8 assists but 4 TOs.  Not a starting point guard's ratio.  He is shooting 29% on the season, 22% from 3, 50% from the line.

Kuzma 4-14

Lopez 4-12, vs Marcin Gortat.  22 minutes for Lopez.  He's starting but he's not getting heavy minutes.  Only averaging 24mpg this season.

Ingram 3-8.  Not enough fgas for a player who is supposed to be the best shooter on the team.

The two players that shot well was Kentavius Caldwell-Pope (5-10) and Clarkson (5-10).

The Laker starters shot 19-56, 33.9%

The Lakers aren't a poor offensive team, they shoot 46% while the Celtics shoot 44%, but they are the #1 worst team in the NBA at 3pt fg% @ 29.2%.  They are 3rd from the bottom in 3pt fgas.  In a league that has moved to the perimeter the Lakers are among the worst perimeter offense-generating teams.  They were 3-23 last night, 13%.  With only 3 3ptfgm you can imagine there's a lot of "oh-fers", but who was taking them?  Ball, 1-7; Pope, 0-4.  There's 11 out of 23 right there.

The Lakers might catch a break now.  They have today off while Milwaukee, their next opponent, plays San Antonio in San Antonio tonight and then flies back to Milwaukee to play the Lakers tomorrow.  A b2b for the Bucks.


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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by fierce on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:43 am

bobheckler wrote:
fierce wrote:And as expected, the Wizards are beating the crap out of the Lakers tonight.


7 Lakers in double digits.  That's often enough to get the job done.  The problem was they shot 36% on the game.

Ball was 3-10.  8 assists but 4 TOs.  Not a starting point guard's ratio.  He is shooting 29% on the season, 22% from 3, 50% from the line.

Kuzma 4-14

Lopez 4-12, vs Marcin Gortat.  22 minutes for Lopez.  He's starting but he's not getting heavy minutes.  Only averaging 24mpg this season.

Ingram 3-8.  Not enough fgas for a player who is supposed to be the best shooter on the team.

The two players that shot well was Kentavius Caldwell-Pope (5-10) and Clarkson (5-10).

The Laker starters shot 19-56, 33.9%

The Lakers aren't a poor offensive team, they shoot 46% while the Celtics shoot 44%, but they are the #1 worst team in the NBA at 3pt fg% @ 29.2%.  They are 3rd from the bottom in 3pt fgas.  In a league that has moved to the perimeter the Lakers are among the worst perimeter offense-generating teams.  They were 3-23 last night, 13%.  With only 3 3ptfgm you can imagine there's a lot of "oh-fers", but who was taking them?  Ball, 1-7; Pope, 0-4.  There's 11 out of 23 right there.

The Lakers might catch a break now.  They have today off while Milwaukee, their next opponent, plays San Antonio in San Antonio tonight and then flies back to Milwaukee to play the Lakers tomorrow.  A b2b for the Bucks.


bob


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That's exactly the problem with Ingram.

How can a player that can't create his own shot live up to the expectations of a #2 pick?

Numerous times I've seen Ingram drive to the basket and lose control when he gets bumped.
He can't post up shorter players because majority of the short NBA players are stronger.
And he's not a pure shooter.

Best case scenario is he becomes the next Tayshaun Prince.
But Tayshaun Prince is not a #2 pick.

Brandon Ingram gets his points from transition baskets and pull up jumpers.
That's not a player that's going to become an All-Star.
Number 2 picks should be All-Stars.

I think some of those who don't believe Ingram is a bust for a #2 pick should watch him play more often.
He's not even a 70% FT shooter.

If Ingram is the Lakers' best shooter then the Lakers are doomed.
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by dboss on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:22 am

Ingram reminds me of the Greek Freak.

Ingram was a kid when he was drafted. I think it is relevant to consider that being drafted at #2 was more about potential than what a team expected immediately.

Ingram just turned 20 years old in September.

I believe that saying he is a bust at #2 is somewhat dismissive because it does not take into account the developmental time line. The expectation were that he would take some time to develop. I think LA is probably happy with where he is at this point. He went from 9.4 PPG to 15.1 PPG and is averaging almost 5 rebounds.

He obviously needs to add more strength but he is not a full blown man yet. I think by the end of year three when is is still just 21 years old at that time we may get a better feel for his #2 draft status.

He is not the shooter that everyone talked about but at the same time he seems to understand what works for him and what doesn't as he limits his 3 point attempts.

There are a plethora of kids that have entered the NBA. Teams that draft these players are drafting potential by in large. But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent.

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by k_j_88 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:55 pm

The Lakers are a pretty mediocre team. They'll lose most of their games against good teams and will be inconsistent against average and bad teams. Their biggest problem, other than their 3 PT shooting, is their execution. At the end of games, they struggle to finish strong.

And as long as Lonzo and Ingram can't shoot, LA will remain mediocre.


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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by dboss on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:37 am

Lonzo had a triple double last night.  In other news the Lakers lost their 3rd game in a row on the road as I expected.  At 5-8 They are officially a below average team. Last game of their trip is to Phoenix and I have a feeling they will lose that one too.  It takes a while for young teams to learn how to win.

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by bobheckler on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:14 am

Remaining Laker games vs Eastern Conference teams with current records:

Philly @ LA (Philly is 5-5)
Bulls @ LA (Bulls are 2-9)
@ Philly
@ Hornets (Hornets are 5-7)
@ Knicks (Knicks are 7-5)
@ Cavaliers (Cavs are 6-7)
Hornets @ LA 
Hawks @ LA (Hawks are 2-11)
Pacers @ LA (6-7)
Knicks @ LA
Celtics @ LA (Celtics are 11-2)
@ Bulls
@ Toronto (Raptors are 7-4)
@ Orlando (Magic are 8-5)
@ Brooklyn (Nyets are 5-8 )
@ Atlanta
@ Miami (Heat are 6-6)
Orlando @ LA 
Cleveland @ LA (March 11th.  IT should be back by then)
Miami @ LA
@ Pacers 
@ Detroit (Pistons are 9-3)
Bucks @ LA (Bucks are 6-6)


23 games vs EC teams for the Lakers to go.

12 of those teams are currently .500 or better.  Cleveland should be a much better tam in March than they are now.  Only 4 of these games are against teams with a worse current record than the Lakers.

My point in this analysis is to point out that, with 69 games left in this season for the Lakers, they only have 1/3 of them against the "weaker" EC (the EC is actually a +3 over WC teams so far, but assuming conventional wisdom about the WC being stronger proves out by the end of the season...) and of those games most of them are against teams that have records as good or better than them.

They will have games against the Mavericks and the Kings and the Suns, which will pump up their win total.


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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by swish on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:58 am

dboss wrote:Ingram reminds me of the Greek Freak.  

Ingram was a kid when he was drafted.  I think it is relevant to consider that being drafted at #2 was more about potential than what a team expected immediately.

Ingram just turned 20 years old in September.

I believe that saying he is a bust at #2 is somewhat dismissive because it does not take into account the developmental time line.  The expectation were that he would take some time to develop.  I think LA is probably happy with where he is at this point.  He went from 9.4 PPG to 15.1 PPG and is averaging almost 5 rebounds.  

He obviously needs to add more strength but he is not a full blown man yet.  I think by the end of year three when is is still just 21 years old at that time we may get a better feel for his #2 draft status.

He is not the shooter that everyone talked about but at the same time he seems to understand what works for him and what doesn't as he limits his 3 point attempts.

There are a plethora of kids that have entered the NBA.  Teams that draft these players are drafting potential by in large.  But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent.

dboss




dboss

Excellent thoughts - especially this one "But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent."
Speaking of drafting on potential - how about the the Greek Freak - I watched his last 2 games - WOW, what athletic talent - With his height, quickness and ball handling skills (Basketball reference list him as a shooting guard, small forward, power forward and point guard) and now he's knocking down 30 points a game and pulling down 10 rebounds. A pleasure to watch. A real big Magic Johnson style player. Perhaps he will turn out to be one of the best ever.


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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by red16russ11 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:04 pm

Out here, at first they were talking playoffs, then 40 wins, now 35 wins............more like 25 or a few games of improvement over last year if you ask me!
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by beat on Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:21 pm

As of now the east is +2 vs the west

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:04 pm

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:Ingram reminds me of the Greek Freak.  

Ingram was a kid when he was drafted.  I think it is relevant to consider that being drafted at #2 was more about potential than what a team expected immediately.

Ingram just turned 20 years old in September.

I believe that saying he is a bust at #2 is somewhat dismissive because it does not take into account the developmental time line.  The expectation were that he would take some time to develop.  I think LA is probably happy with where he is at this point.  He went from 9.4 PPG to 15.1 PPG and is averaging almost 5 rebounds.  

He obviously needs to add more strength but he is not a full blown man yet.  I think by the end of year three when is is still just 21 years old at that time we may get a better feel for his #2 draft status.

He is not the shooter that everyone talked about but at the same time he seems to understand what works for him and what doesn't as he limits his 3 point attempts.

There are a plethora of kids that have entered the NBA.  Teams that draft these players are drafting potential by in large.  But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent.

dboss




 dboss

 Excellent thoughts - especially this one  "But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent."  
Speaking of drafting on potential - how about the the Greek Freak - I watched his last 2 games - WOW, what athletic talent - With his height, quickness and ball handling skills (Basketball reference list him as a shooting guard, small forward, power forward and point guard) and now he's knocking down 30 points a game and pulling down 10 rebounds. A pleasure to watch. A real big Magic Johnson style player. Perhaps he will turn out to be one of the best ever.


  swish

saw him last night too, incredible talent, does it both ends, gets wherever he wants and unstoppable down low....also Ball looked a lot better, Ingram did pretty much nothing, if he can't score, he also doesn't give you anything else in other areas.
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by dboss on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:06 pm

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:Ingram reminds me of the Greek Freak.  

Ingram was a kid when he was drafted.  I think it is relevant to consider that being drafted at #2 was more about potential than what a team expected immediately.

Ingram just turned 20 years old in September.

I believe that saying he is a bust at #2 is somewhat dismissive because it does not take into account the developmental time line.  The expectation were that he would take some time to develop.  I think LA is probably happy with where he is at this point.  He went from 9.4 PPG to 15.1 PPG and is averaging almost 5 rebounds.  

He obviously needs to add more strength but he is not a full blown man yet.  I think by the end of year three when is is still just 21 years old at that time we may get a better feel for his #2 draft status.

He is not the shooter that everyone talked about but at the same time he seems to understand what works for him and what doesn't as he limits his 3 point attempts.

There are a plethora of kids that have entered the NBA.  Teams that draft these players are drafting potential by in large.  But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent.

dboss




 dboss

 Excellent thoughts - especially this one  "But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent."  
Speaking of drafting on potential - how about the the Greek Freak - I watched his last 2 games - WOW, what athletic talent - With his height, quickness and ball handling skills (Basketball reference list him as a shooting guard, small forward, power forward and point guard) and now he's knocking down 30 points a game and pulling down 10 rebounds. A pleasure to watch. A real big Magic Johnson style player. Perhaps he will turn out to be one of the best ever.


  swish

Swish I watched him dominate the Lakers last night. He is quite a package. If he can improve his outside shot he will be a top 5 guy in this league. His predraft profile talked about his unrefined skills but the big draw was his size, length and athleticism. Bucks hit a grand slam with that pick.

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by dboss on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:16 pm

red16russ11 wrote:Out here, at first they were talking playoffs, then 40 wins, now 35 wins............more like 25 or a few games of improvement over last year if you ask me!

I do think LAL are improved over last year but they will likely be a very poor road team again this year and in general they will lose a lot of games because they lack fundamental. They are not very good defensively. Their style of play (fast break) masked their deficiencies on offense. They turned the ball over 21 times against the Bucks. If their current 1-5 road record is projected over 41 games they would win 8.2 road games. last year they were 9-32 on the road.

If they play .500 ball at home they will probably win 30 games at the most. As of today they are 6 games from the bottom.

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by fierce on Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:01 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
swish wrote:
dboss wrote:Ingram reminds me of the Greek Freak.  

Ingram was a kid when he was drafted.  I think it is relevant to consider that being drafted at #2 was more about potential than what a team expected immediately.

Ingram just turned 20 years old in September.

I believe that saying he is a bust at #2 is somewhat dismissive because it does not take into account the developmental time line.  The expectation were that he would take some time to develop.  I think LA is probably happy with where he is at this point.  He went from 9.4 PPG to 15.1 PPG and is averaging almost 5 rebounds.  

He obviously needs to add more strength but he is not a full blown man yet.  I think by the end of year three when is is still just 21 years old at that time we may get a better feel for his #2 draft status.

He is not the shooter that everyone talked about but at the same time he seems to understand what works for him and what doesn't as he limits his 3 point attempts.

There are a plethora of kids that have entered the NBA.  Teams that draft these players are drafting potential by in large.  But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent.

dboss




 dboss

 Excellent thoughts - especially this one  "But teams are not willing to pass on young highend POTENTIAL talent."  
Speaking of drafting on potential - how about the the Greek Freak - I watched his last 2 games - WOW, what athletic talent - With his height, quickness and ball handling skills (Basketball reference list him as a shooting guard, small forward, power forward and point guard) and now he's knocking down 30 points a game and pulling down 10 rebounds. A pleasure to watch. A real big Magic Johnson style player. Perhaps he will turn out to be one of the best ever.


  swish

saw him last night too, incredible talent, does it both ends, gets wherever he wants and unstoppable down low....also Ball looked a lot better, Ingram did pretty much nothing, if he can't score, he also doesn't give you anything else in other areas.

Bingo!

Ingram only gets his points from open shots and transition plays.
That's not a player who's going to live up to the expectations of a #2 pick.

Reason why Ingram is averaging in double figures is because he's given a lot of playing time and the Lakers play a fast paced offense.

But you're on the money, oldschool, Ingram doesn't give you anything else in other areas.
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by fierce on Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:08 pm

dboss

Today's game against the Raptors showed us how a kid drafted #3, Jayson Tatum, is making plays on both ends of the floor.

Saying that Ingram is still developing is no excuse.
The Lakers were too stupid to see that Ingram has physical limitations.

You need to watch the games.
Ingram gives you nothing else if he can't score.
And Ingram can't score if it's not open shots or transition baskets.

Right now Brandon Ingram compared to both our #3 picks, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, is clearly a bust.
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by dboss on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:21 pm

fierce wrote:dboss

Today's game against the Raptors showed us how a kid drafted #3, Jayson Tatum, is making plays on both ends of the floor.

Saying that Ingram is still developing is no excuse.
The Lakers were too stupid to see that Ingram has physical limitations.

You need to watch the games.
Ingram gives you nothing else if he can't score.
And Ingram can't score if it's not open shots or transition baskets.

Right now Brandon Ingram compared to both our #3 picks, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, is clearly a bust.

I thought I was watching the games but if you think I should watch the games I must have imagined them.

Sorry but you will not win an argument with me about this.  My position is that IT takes developmental time for 19 year old kids to get better.  Some progress faster than others.  I like our pups and believe they were excellent selections.  

That is my feelings on the matter.

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by fierce on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:30 pm

dboss wrote:
fierce wrote:dboss

Today's game against the Raptors showed us how a kid drafted #3, Jayson Tatum, is making plays on both ends of the floor.

Saying that Ingram is still developing is no excuse.
The Lakers were too stupid to see that Ingram has physical limitations.

You need to watch the games.
Ingram gives you nothing else if he can't score.
And Ingram can't score if it's not open shots or transition baskets.

Right now Brandon Ingram compared to both our #3 picks, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, is clearly a bust.

I thought I was watching the games but if you think I should watch the games I must have imagined them.

Sorry but you will not win an argument with me about this.  My position is that IT takes developmental time for 19 year old kids to get better.  Some progress faster than others.  I like our pups and believe they were excellent selections.  

That is my feelings on the matter.

Dboss

I understand.

Don't worry, maybe next season you'll see what I'm seeing.

It's just a matter of time before Ingram loses his starting spot.
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by worcester on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:33 pm

All that matters is how our Celtic players develop.
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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by gyso on Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:12 pm

worcester wrote:All that matters is how our Celtic players develop.

Yup.

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Re: Five takeaways from the Lakers 107-96 loss to the Boston Celtics

Post by dboss on Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:15 pm

gyso wrote:
worcester wrote:All that matters is how our Celtic players develop.

Yup.

+1. Dboss
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