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Post by Ktronic1 Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:47 am

Phil Pressey wrote:
112288 wrote:WELL THAT WILL SHUT THE BIG MOUTH OF SIR CHARLES!

WHAT A GREAT GAME............WE COULD HAVE WON BY DOUBLE FIGURES.

THIS GAME WILL GO DOWN AS ONE OF THE FOUNDATION BLOCKS THAT WILL BE THE NEW CELTIC DYNASTY!!!!

SAD TO SAY, SMART IS PLAYING HIMSELF OUT OF THE LINEUP AND OUT OF THE TEAM.....HIS GAME HAS REGRESSED!


112288




I saw Barkley too at halftime. He is bitter because he never won a title. He sees all those banners in Boston Garden.

I also agree on Marcus Smart. Something very odd is going on.

Golden State acts entitled. They remind me of LeBron and Wade whooping it up only to choke against Dallas in the Finals.

That was probably the signature win to end all signature wins until a big playoff win, getting into the Finals, something big.

I doubt Golden State is concerned about signature wins.

They are relying on four guys who are not robots. They looked lazy to me throwing up too many threes.

It looked like Durant would ruin the winning streak, but he missed a few at the end.

I think Irving has the injury/mask excuse for his lousy shooting. He was very good at his free throws. Good job by Jaylen hitting most his own and supplying good scoring punch.

There are a couple very easy games coming up. Unless they are trap games, this winning streak could keep going on for quite a while.

But yeah, otherwise, I am fixated on Smart. He does deserve credit for tonight. Their guard stars put up lousy stats.

If we trade Smart, that'd be a tough hit on the defensive identity. But if he is lame on offense, and you could seal his loss on defense or contain the damage of losing his defense, then it's that contract time for perhaps moving on.

There are other possibilities. His value drops and he comes back on a humble contract. Or he gets offered Turner money and leave. Or Danny matches.

He needs to snap out of it.

Smart could basically be a rental at this point and a good one at that. I am not sure Golden State can keep their run together throwing all their money at divas with nothing left to fill the roster.

And we will be much better later in the year than we were tonight. Irving is dealing with a broken face.

Horford and Brown willed the win for my final comment. And Kyrie with his free throws. The free throw shooting won it with defense. We humbled them. I think they may have some issues in upcoming games. We may have figured something out about them. Or are we really this good?

Golden State only scored 60 points over the last three quarters.

Big, big win.

And how many words will be spilled on Marcus Smart? I will assume the other boards are probably whining right now.

Marcus Smart is a good problem to have. He isn't even a problem. We are beating teams with defense and that's what he does best. What will be, will be. I'll be happy either way if he stays or goes. If he starts shooting good, you have to keep him. You might have to keep him anyway. That's a #6 pick we drafted. It's not like picking #2 Evan Turner off the scrap heap.

I am thoroughly convinced that you really are THE Phil Pressey and you want Smart’s job!
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Post by sinus007 Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:53 am

Hi,
One more "Wow" game. Way to go, Celtics.
I think that GSW underestimated Celtics. After they got ahead (twice) by 17 points they thought that the W is in the pocket - eh, not exactly.
I inclined to agree with Hawksnestbeach about Smart. He can play defense even in his sleep, so he's cool with that part. But it seemed he was total wreck on the other end of the floor. He even managed to kick the ball out of the basket. Coach Stevens was getting him in when GSW had the ball and out of the game when we had the ball.
The game ball, obviously, goes to JB.
Overall, it was a great win, but I don't think the Celtics can compete with GSW this year, not yet.

AK
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Post by mrkleen09 Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:06 am

I cannot believe what whiny babies and poor losers the Warriors are. In interviews with Coach Kerr, Steph, Durant, Klay - they ALL mentioned the officiating as a key to the win.

Bunch of pathetic sore sports - act like champions and take the loss like men.
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Post by mulcogiseng Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:07 am

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Another stinker by Marcus and his loyal fans are all about why he is crucial to the win.

14 wins in a row and some fans are still saying this team can't win it all or beat the team they just beat in a seven game series.

For the record, Marcus did not have a very good game last night. He was 0for0fer on all shots, 3point efforts, jumpers and bunnies, he missed everything. He hit 1-2 from the free throw line and that is a regression. Two steals one block 3 turn overs.

Basketball is a team game and wins occur because of team effort. Wilt would be the first to say that without his team he never scores that 100 points. So yes, Marcus contributed to the win last night. And yes, Marcus has the confidence of his coach. As if Brad has never made a mistake. It's not that Marcus doesn't have any value. It's that he is overvalued. Sometimes he can not score and still have tremendous impact on the game. Last night wasn't one of those. The order from Brad is that if you are open you take the shot Marcus has gotten away with that since he has been here. He knows that taking too many shots is not good for the team and he is starting to hesitate. His poor shooting has gotten into his head. He needs to get over that, play with confidence, while making every effort to make his teammates better.

For me the solution is not trading Marcus for a marginal player. If he goes to New Orleans in a needle moving trade that's fine. Otherwise he needs to play a little smarter, make the extra pass before time is running out and he has to hoist an unmakeable shot, even though he sometimes makes those shots. If he wants to contribute to the scoring he is best served posting players up. As long as his focus is on making the team better and getting stops on the D side he is fine. He runs into trouble when he thinks that he can score and make a real difference that way. History has proven that to not be true. Has he regressed? I don't know, his numbers were never very good to begin with. Is it OK for him to miss every shot the next ten games as long as the team wins? I'd say NO but it depends on what kinds of shots and when during the flow of the game.

It is true that Defense win championships. It is not true that it will happen if an important role player keeps shooting himself, and the team, in the foot.

We have a much better team this year. It is a much deeper team. We don't need no HERO ball.

The season so far has confirmed my opinion that this is a 60+ win team that will go to the Finals this year. I've said it since summer league.

As of now, there is only one best team in the league.

Let me close by saying that I like Theis, even if he only plays 2 minutes.

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Post by kdp59 Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:37 am

As for Sir Charles (who's Shtick I generally enjoy), I loved when he said GS would not score only 94 points tonight in the pre-game.

well, he was RIGHT again...they only scored 88!!!

Very Happy

long season, but I will enjoy how this team is playing right now.
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Post by 112288 Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:58 am

LET US NOT FORGET....SHAQ PREDICTED THE WIN LAST NIGHT!

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Post by bobheckler Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:27 pm

I watched this barside at Ozumas, sucking down sushi and sake and surrounded by Dubs fans.  For the record, they claim that hamachi tastes nothing like crow; and yes, I did ask.

I'm running out of superlatives for this team.  "Offensively efficient" might be the only one left and that one seems pretty damn safe.  This is the first time since 2/11/15 an NBA team won despite shooting <33% for the game and only the second time in 35 years the Celtics have done it.  I really, really don't want to test that one again.  The Celtics are now down to 22nd in offensive rating.  They also haven't lost in a month (it will be exactly one month when we play again on Saturday in Atlanta).  That is amazing, nothing short of amazing, when you consider how offensively-oriented the NBA has become.  The rest of the league is 14-89 (13.6%) when scoring 96 points or less.  The Celtics are 5-0 when we score 96 or less.

We held their Big 3 (Durant, Curry and Thompson) to 17-50.  Durant had a good game, 24 points on 9-18 but the other two were 8-32, 5-20 from 3.  With no Avery Bradley or Jae Crowder.  Honestly, when this team first took the court in mid-October (but before the Hayward injury) I didn't see how Danny could have offset the loss of Bradley and Crowder.  I thought we'd be better offensively but weaker defensively and that overall we'd be better.  I never thought we'd be this much better defensively.  Not for a NY second.

We were down 17 points 2x last night.  The last time we erased that 17 point deficit in 4 minutes.

The game was won at the frito line.  They were .  I'm sure, in the Comments from the Other Side thread, we'll see GSW fans screaming about the frito disparity consider this:  for the entire game Steph Curry only took 3 fgas in the paint (he was 1-3), Klay Thompson took 1 fga in the paint (1-1) and Kevin Durant was 3-3 in the paint with 2 of them fast break dunks.  You don't get whistles taking wide-open 3pt jump shots.  You get them when the defenders overcommit and/or when you initiate contact with movement with or without the ball.  Curry didn't penetrate like he normally does.  Thompson got a layup on a cut.  You need more than that to earn whistles and they didn't do it.

Horford with some silly turnovers on poorly thought-out entry passes but otherwise another great night for Al.  7-11 on a night where the team shot 32.9%, 18 points, 11 rebounds.  Some of his buckets were HUGE.  A team of multi-millionaires, owned by billionaires, and we couldn't buy a basket but Al still muscled a few hook shots in.

Kyrie with a very forgettable 4-16 night, but he outscored the GSW 11-7 in the last 4:39 of the game with the Dubs up by 4 at the time.  4 points on 2 layups and the other 7 on fritos.

Tatum was a non-factor for most of the game but scored 7 of his 12 points in the 4th quarter.  He likes the 4th quarter and wants the ball.  That is SO good.  


Bill Doyle @BillDoyle15

about 28 minutes ago

Charles Barkley: I was wrong (about Celtics holding GS under 100 points), they played terrific, hats off to the Celtics. The MVP so far this season is Kyrie Irving, he's the front runner. ... Jaylen Brown's playing great. ... The best rookie to come out this year is Jayson Tatum.
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Semi with 5 boards and 17 minutes last night.  That shows how much trust Brad has in him.  Theis got 3 minutes and Rozier only got 4 more minutes than Semi with 21.

Marcus Smart, Marcus Smart, what to do about Marcus Smart.  0-7.  His season-to-date fg% is now 26.8% and his fg% in his last 5 games is 19.2%.  His 3pt fg% in his last 5 games is 18.2%.  At this point, honestly, I just don't what else to say about him.   Rolling Eyes  We're winning, while he's playing starter minutes so he can't be as destructive as his stats say, but he's not helping to settle my stomach.

But the game ball goes to Jaylen Brown.  22 points on 7-18 after starting 2-6.  7 rebounds, 3 offensive.  I didn't know that his best friend and teammate in High School died less than 24 hours before game time.  I didn't know that he told Brad that he didn't think he'd be able to play last night he was so distraught.  I didn't know his friend's mom called him and inspired him to play anyway and I didn't know that his friend's number in HS was 22.  This is one tough minded kid.  He learned it from IT last year, playing in the playoffs after his sister died.  He had some very tough defensive covers last night too.  GSW has a future HOF back court that are the best shooters in the history of the game.




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Brad Stevens: "We are focused on understanding that you have to do your job well and if you do it, you have a chance….If you always do it, you have a chance to win that possession. And if you win that possession, you can win the game."
7:57 PM - 16 Nov 2017







Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach

yesterday

Steph was asked about maybe being back here in the Finals. Said Cs have to go through the Cavs. "So we'll see. But I hear the weather is great here in June."
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On to 3-12 Atlanta and then 2-13 Dallas.  The win streak could get to 16, easily, if we don't lose focus.  As it is, however, the win streak is

POST GAME GOLDEN STATE - HOME - Page 2 DO0qx2tXUAAkL82



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bob



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Post by mulcogiseng Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:47 pm

Bob,,
I've got a shirt just like the one you posted showing the Celtics win total so far. Imagine that! Smile

The interview talking about his friend is the most impressive thing I've seen so far from Jaylen. He is a fine young man! We may not yet know just how much upside he has but I bet it's HUGE!
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Post by dboss Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:05 pm

If there exists an Offensive/Defensive tipping point for Marcus Smart, I do not know where that is.  

In his 4th NBA campaign Marcus continues to exceed expectation related to his defensive prowess.  He is a fighter.  He never quits.  He is tough as nails.  He plays solid defense just about every single game and we count on him making 2-3 GREAT plays every game.  Every game there he is grabbing a rebound in traffic, diving to the floor to come up with loose balls, ripping the ball away from defenders, taking charges and physically imposing his will on opponents.

But there are two ends of the court and his offense makes you cringe.  His offense is the polar opposite of his defense.  Has he regressed?  Statistically the answer is yes but the fact remains that he came into the league as a challenged offensive player that was not a reliable shooter.  He has performed far below expectations on offense.  

Lookin closer at the numbers, he is averaging 10 shots per game and 4.4 three point shots, all career highs for him.  He is averaging both a career high in assists,  rebounds and has matched his best steals total Per Game.  Negatively he is also averaging a career high in turnovers.

All of the positives are on the defensive side of the ball.

The month of November has not been too kind to Marcus as his shooting woes have gotten even worst.  Through 9 games, his field goal percentage is down to .222% and his 3 point % is down to .235%.  There may be a short term and long term solution here if the Celtics see a need to implement them.

The first thing that people need to come to terms with is that Marcus Smart is not  a complete basketball player.  He is a defensive specialist.  Based on his negative offensive contribution since he first stepped on the court he should not be playing starter minutes at 30 per game.  When he is on the court you are essentially playing 4 against 5 on offense.  I had hoped and prayed that he would finally find a shot that works but obviously that has not happened.  Maybe 10 games from now it will come but I have not seen anything in 3 plus years that indicates that Marcus will be anything but a defensive player.  That's okay because there are a lot of players who are dreadful on offense.

Stevens reluctance to take away minutes is related to the fact that Marcus is a big physical point guard defender so you would potentially reduce the ability of the team to defend the bigger point guards in the league.  But we really do not know what would happen if Marcus was playing 20 MPG instead of 30.

Marcus looks like a head case out there.  He is trying not to miss shots but not focusing on making them.  How can anybody be this bad even on layups and close in opportunities?  I think Marcus knows that he is a poor shooter and it has only served to make him that much worst.  

The long term solution was extended by NOT extending his contract.  Don't be fooled by all the jabber that comes out of Danny and Brad's mouth about how much they love Marcus Smart.  Smart is a more value added player at $4.5 million per year than he would be at $12-$15 million.  If the Celtics are going to extend Smart after the season he has to play a lot better on the offensive end of the court.  

Marcus Smart is not irreplaceable.  The Celtics are still loaded with enough draft assets to find his replacement so do not be surprised if they decide to part ways. 

dboss


Last edited by dboss on Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Phil Pressey Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:09 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Marcus Smart, Marcus Smart, what to do about Marcus Smart.  0-7.  His season-to-date fg% is now 26.8% and his fg% in his last 5 games is 19.2%.  His 3pt fg% in his last 5 games is 18.2%.  At this point, honestly, I just don't what else to say about him.   Rolling Eyes  We're winning, while he's playing starter minutes so he can't be as destructive as his stats say, but he's not helping to settle my stomach.

It's not fair that mentioning how miserable Smart is at shooting implies one is a bad fan.

And if we are going to praise Smart for his stellar +-, Danny must do all he can to get back Olynyk. It's funny how that stat is meaningful for one guy but not the other.

I've made quite a number of posts lately on Smart. I am not rooting against him. I want him to wake up and force Danny to pay $20 million/year. If Smart is a star, then we have truly arrived.

But if he is going to toss up nothing but bricks, that is an issue.

If we could go back in time one year, arguments could be made that Bradley must be resigned. He's gone and we are doing better.

Golden State has money issues going forward. Do the people criticizing those wondering about Smart have any comment on that?

No one is bashing him. But some Celtics fans curious of his shooting woes seem to be targeted as in how dare we speak that way of Marcus Smart.  Very Happy

Golden State lost because they felt entitled to throw up long shots instead of driving to the hoop. Some bad calls helped us. Brown clearly hacked the GS player on the arm. That was a foul not a block. But for the most part the C's drove to the hoop and that's why we got to the line a lot.

Smart made contributions on defense as usual, but that was clearly one of his worst games. He didn't get many assists. He made turnovers. How can anyone justify 18% shooting over five games?

If Marcus Smart stays long-term, I will accept it. He's a Dennis Rodman, totally flawed in some areas but spectacular in some crucial ones.

I have no clue what will happen. I love Marcus Smart. I loved Pressey and any player who gives 100% and just wants to win, stats be damned.

But reality is reality. I linked to an article or two on Golden State and their financials heading forward. But some would rather have the focus on fans pointing out how historically bad Smart is at shooting than admit there are financial decisions that may transcend who stays and who goes.

He might stay. Brad might tell Danny no way can this team run defense the same without him. I don't think it's a slam dunk he stays specifically because he's turned into a head case on offense.

He's still got a couple months to turn it around. And like I said, no one knows whether he stays or goes. Captain Obvious says it could go either way. His contract is up. I don't understand the hard feelings towards people pointing out the obvious.

I respect those who love Marcus Smart warts and all. Sometimes people have different opinions and perspectives.
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Post by bobheckler Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:11 pm

Phil Pressey wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
Marcus Smart, Marcus Smart, what to do about Marcus Smart.  0-7.  His season-to-date fg% is now 26.8% and his fg% in his last 5 games is 19.2%.  His 3pt fg% in his last 5 games is 18.2%.  At this point, honestly, I just don't what else to say about him.   Rolling Eyes  We're winning, while he's playing starter minutes so he can't be as destructive as his stats say, but he's not helping to settle my stomach.

It's not fair that mentioning how miserable Smart is at shooting implies one is a bad fan.

And if we are going to praise Smart for his stellar +-, Danny must do all he can to get back Olynyk. It's funny how that stat is meaningful for one guy but not the other.

I've made quite a number of posts lately on Smart. I am not rooting against him. I want him to wake up and force Danny to pay $20 million/year. If Smart is a star, then we have truly arrived.

But if he is going to toss up nothing but bricks, that is an issue.

If we could go back in time one year, arguments could be made that Bradley must be resigned. He's gone and we are doing better.

Golden State has money issues going forward. Do the people criticizing those wondering about Smart have any comment on that?

No one is bashing him. But some Celtics fans curious of his shooting woes seem to be targeted as in how dare we speak that way of Marcus Smart.  Very Happy

Golden State lost because they felt entitled to throw up long shots instead of driving to the hoop. Some bad calls helped us. Brown clearly hacked the GS player on the arm. That was a foul not a block. But for the most part the C's drove to the hoop and that's why we got to the line a lot.

Smart made contributions on defense as usual, but that was clearly one of his worst games. He didn't get many assists. He made turnovers. How can anyone justify 18% shooting over five games?

If Marcus Smart stays long-term, I will accept it. He's a Dennis Rodman, totally flawed in some areas but spectacular in some crucial ones.

I have no clue what will happen. I love Marcus Smart. I loved Pressey and any player who gives 100% and just wants to win, stats be damned.

But reality is reality. I linked to an article or two on Golden State and their financials heading forward. But some would rather have the focus on fans pointing out how historically bad Smart is at shooting than admit there are financial decisions that may transcend who stays and who goes.

He might stay. Brad might tell Danny no way can this team run defense the same without him. I don't think it's a slam dunk he stays specifically because he's turned into a head case on offense.

He's still got a couple months to turn it around. And like I said, no one knows whether he stays or goes. Captain Obvious says it could go either way. His contract is up. I don't understand the hard feelings towards people pointing out the obvious.

I respect those who love Marcus Smart warts and all. Sometimes people have different opinions and perspectives.


Phil,

I don't know who you were referring to specifically, if anybody, but I certainly didn't cite any player's +/-

As far as Kelly goes I was one of his supporters but he's no Marcus Smart because Kelly's offense wasn't great and wasn't consistent while his defense was positionally good but man-to-man weak while Smart excels in every other part of his game except shooting and his playmaking is good, maybe even very good, but not excellent.  In other words Smart's skills highs on almost everything else except shooting are higher than Kelly's highs. 

And I challenge anybody to show where I said someone was a "bad fan" for disagreeing with me.  


bob


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Post by mrkleen09 Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:43 pm

Maybe it is down to the fact that it is hard to find things to complain about when you lose an All Star 4 minutes into a season - yet are still on a 14 game winning streak.  But this Marcus Smart bashing is honestly already getting old and a number of you risk turning into a one trick pony.  

No one is forcing Brad Stevens to play Smart.  So if you are praising Brad and praising the winning streak, you have to acknowledge Smart plays a big part in building and substantiating the identity of this team.  You could see that when the lineup was Smart - Rozier - Morris - Baynes, their physicality and toughness caused the Warriors to recoil and wilt.

West wanted nothing to do with Baynes, and he pushed him around a number of times - a move that almost always ilicits a response from him.  Draymond got stuffed HARD by Morris and didnt say shit to Marcus.  And Nick Young got taken out of his game once Smart started posting him up.

I am not trying to whitewash his poor shooting, and I now also agree that his overall offensive decision making is suffering from his lack of confidence.  But Smart will be fine and if he is not, will be on the way out at the trade deadline.
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Post by Phil Pressey Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:55 pm

I meant in general. I liked your post because it spelled out how pitiful his stats have been.

Smart has had some games in the past when he lit it up. As bad as he's been, something might click and then he shoots 60% on two's and 40% on threes for a similar amount of games.

I like how Tatum had a rough night but Brad decided it's best to let young guys work through it. He is gaining experience. Brown had a great night. He is no Jeff Green.

Olynyk did excel at the plus minus stat. Marcus Smart is putting up great +- numbers also as a backup.

They play different positions, so it's tough to compare them.

It's a tough call. I'm looking at Evan Turner's stats. He's played in all 14 Portland games and his numbers are worse than when he was with the Celtics. His assist to turnover ratio is currently at 2.9 to 1.9.

Smart is excelling because his main talent is defense on a team which values it. If he was shooting this bad on a team incapable of playing defense, he might not be getting many raves. Jae Crowder's starting to look like a scrub in another system. Turner has regressed back to scrub status.

I trust Danny and Brad. Whatever they decide long-term for Smart will answer my doubts about his true value.
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Post by NYCelt Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:18 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:... it is hard to find things to complain about when you lose an All Star 4 minutes into a season - yet are still on a 14 game winning streak.

So very true.
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Post by swish Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:33 pm

A weak link, offensively or defensively challenged, on a team with an outstanding record is acceptable in many cases - less likely on a mediocre or worse team.

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Post by k_j_88 Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:54 pm

I've noticed that Marcus tends to take difficult shots. That, unless you're just a great shooter, will only hurt your averages.

I know we are winning, but the offense needs work. A lot of work. It's more than just missed shots. Bad passes are being intercepted or throw out of bounds. Guys lose control of their dribble and turn it over. The offense is just incredibly sloppy and I don't think it is sustainable.


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Post by bobheckler Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:05 pm

Let's remember folks, we still have Hayward's $8.4M DPE.  In February we are going to see teams buying out veteran players, or making trades at the deadline and waiving players who they don't see having a future with them.  If Danny hasn't already used the DPE by then the cream of those waived/bought out players will be hammering on Danny's door, wanting to jump on the train of one of the best teams in the league.  We could pick up a PJ Brown-like player for the playoffs.



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POST GAME GOLDEN STATE - HOME - Page 2 Empty Re: POST GAME GOLDEN STATE - HOME

Post by cowens/oldschool Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:43 am

I just noticed in the highlights how many times guys like Durant and Curry flop on offense when a defender swipes at the ball, glad the refs didn't always bail them out....bunch of pussies

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POST GAME GOLDEN STATE - HOME - Page 2 Empty Re: POST GAME GOLDEN STATE - HOME

Post by bobheckler Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:19 pm

Might be the first time I've ever agreed with Stephen A(sshole) Smith.






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