This and That

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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:02 pm

bobheckler wrote:IT really still wants to be a Celtic.  Specifically, he wants to be Kevin McHale.








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Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 2 hours ago
Isaiah Thomas managed to avoid a suspension for clotheslining Andrew Wiggins and receives a $20,000 fine per NBA.

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Re: This and That

Post by wideclyde on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Guys,

Perhaps it is just me aging very rapidly, but this thread of "this and that" has been terrible for me to follow along with as there are now about seven different threads all mixed together inside of it.

Maybe the administrators could cancel or separate this one thread if others are as confused as I am? Or, perhaps the members will hopefully not start such a thread again.

Color me very confused.

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Re: This and That

Post by jrleftfoot on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:32 pm

I think " this and that" implies that there won`t be a consistent theme. I expect the thread was intended to allow people to throw stuff out there that might not merit its own thread. I`m o.k. with it
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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:39 pm

wideclyde wrote:Guys,

Perhaps it is just me aging very rapidly, but this thread of "this and that" has been terrible for me to follow along with as there are now about seven different threads all mixed together inside of it.

Maybe the administrators could cancel or separate this one thread if others are as confused as I am?  Or, perhaps the members will hopefully not start such a thread again.

Color me very confused.

This and that is simply an all inclusive thread where any topic can be discussed about the Celtics or any other team.  It is sort of like a sports news update.

It is just like my Odds and Ends thread

You can add any comments you want or introduce a new subject.  If you have a subject that demands a more singular discussion then start a new topic (Thread)

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Re: This and That

Post by k_j_88 on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:05 pm

https://www.fearthesword.com/2018/1/9/16867794/isaiah-thomas-large-contract-cavaliers


League insiders say Isaiah Thomas’ best chance of landing a major deal is with the Cavs

A future in Cleveland could do wonders for I.T.’s bank account.

By Justin Rowan@Cavsanada Jan 9, 2018, 12:56pm CST



There are few storylines more intriguing for the 2017-2018 Cleveland Cavaliers than the saga of Isaiah Thomas. Thomas went from an MVP candidate on a team trying to establish legitimacy, to a potential x-factor on a championship contender. On top of the storylines on the court, there’s the looming pressure of what Thomas will command as a free agent this summer.

ESPN’s Brian Windhorst wrote a piece illustrating why the Cavs may make the most sense for Thomas as a free agent, regardless of what LeBron James does this summer. He also reports that league executives and agents believe Thomas’ best chance of landing a major deal is with the Cavs.

As he noted, the market has changed for older point guards like Thomas recently. While money is still available, similar players like Kyle Lowry, Jeff Teague, and George Hill didn’t get the term they expected. Plus in Thomas’ case, the teams that would have the cap space to make an offer at Thomas don’t have a need at point guard:

The Bulls have a budding star in Kris Dunn, the 76ers have Ben Simmons, the Mavericks have Dennis Smith Jr., the Hawks have Dennis Schroder, and the Lakers have Lonzo Ball. There are some options: Brooklyn, Phoenix and Indiana are possibilities, for example, though the Suns already traded Thomas once. It’s not inviting even if Thomas had no injury concerns, which he does with possible degenerative hip issues.

He continued to go into some of the intangible aspects of the situation that could lead to Thomas staying in Cleveland:

One, the Cavs will be under some pressure to retain him because he’s a prime asset from the Kyrie Irving trade. Though the Cavs made it clear behind the scenes that they saw the Nets’ pick as the primary carrot, the Nets’ stronger-than-expected play this season is threatening to push that pick deeper into the lottery. Currently, it is projected to be the ninth pick. A team, even a rebuilding team as the Cavs might be if James walks, cannot allow prime assets to leave for nothing.

Second, Gilbert loves underdogs like Thomas. He sees himself as an underdog, a self-made billionaire who went to Michigan State, not the Ivy League. In 2016, Gilbert was the driving force behind paying $2.4 million to buy a draft pick to take Kay Felder, an undersized point guard from Oakland University who attracted Gilbert because of his ability to overcome challenges. Felder didn’t make it with the Cavs, but Thomas is the embodiment of what the Cavs were dreaming of with Felder.

How Thomas finishes out this season, plus how he contributes against the Warriors will likely factor heavily into the deal he receives. But it’s interesting to examine what the predicted market looks like at this point and wonder how high the Cavs will have to go to retain him.

While I agree with the notion that asset management is important, I do think it would be unlikely that the Cavs would retain Thomas, if LeBron decided to leave. He was incredibly unhappy during his time in Sacramento and Phoenix. Now that he’s had a taste of winning, I doubt he would he would want to stay with a LeBron-less Cavs team without a serious overpay by Cleveland.

Ultimately this is putting the carriage ahead of the horse. We don’t know what the Cavs will look like after the trade deadline, where the Brooklyn pick will end up, or what LeBron will do. The main takeaway should be that if LeBron is staying and the franchise is still eyeing a championship in the short-term, they will be in a fairly good position to retain Thomas, should they choose to do so.


--

The Cavs are set to pay out $137 million this season. Presumably, they'll offer Lebron a contract. I could see him signing another 2-year deal. Kevin Love, JR Smith, and Tristan Thompson are all on the books for a combined $51 million this year and $59 million at the end of 3 years.

But Isaiah is going to want BIG money. There's always a chance he could dip away from Cleveland because of a desperate team that's willing to shell out the funds that the Cavs don't have. He could remain loyal and sign a team-friendly deal if he would prefer to remain on a team that's at least in contention.

They're in a precarious salary situation after the IT-Irving trade because IT could leave and they likely won't have the money to keep everyone. The Brooklyn pick is also not looking like the sure bet they assumed that it would be.



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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:19 pm

If IT had surgery on the hip back in May by now his future would look a little brighter.  Any team has to be concerned that the hip issue will come back.  

If Cavs do not get to the title round how likely are they to resign him?  If they get to the championship round and lose how likely are they to resign him?

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Re: This and That

Post by Sandpd on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:24 am

dboss wrote:If IT had surgery on the hip back in May by now his future would look a little brighter.  Any team has to be concerned that the hip issue will come back.  

If Cavs do not get to the title round how likely are they to resign him?  If they get to the championship round and lose how likely are they to resign him?

Dboss

A lot depends on LeBron - if he stays or goes elsewhere:

http://thecommittedgeneration.com/isaiah-chasing-126-million/
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Re: This and That

Post by NYCelt on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:54 am

Sandpd wrote:
dboss wrote:If IT had surgery on the hip back in May by now his future would look a little brighter.  Any team has to be concerned that the hip issue will come back.  

If Cavs do not get to the title round how likely are they to resign him?  If they get to the championship round and lose how likely are they to resign him?

Dboss

A lot depends on LeBron - if he stays or goes elsewhere:

http://thecommittedgeneration.com/isaiah-chasing-126-million/

Sandpd,

Just a hunch on my part, but I don't think LeBron is going anywhere. I suspect he's in Cleveland for the duration. If so, I would agree that might influence what they do with Thomas. It appears IT has healed, and if they're going to re-inforce (not rebuild) that team, IT and James make a strong core.

Lots of speculation in the past centered on James going to LA, but it seems little of that guesswork has anything to do with basketball. Rather than reading about James combining with some of the young players LA now has, it seems I see more about the power of being in LA for self-promotion. I would speculate that James has become such a big global presence, that it doesn't matter where he plays. He doesn't need to go to Hollywood, the beautiful people come to him. From everywhere.

The Cavs still have a good foundation, they could easily supplement it and continue among the top 3 or 4 teams in the league. If James stays, as I think he will, IT may even want to think about making room in his driveway for that Brinks truck.

Regards
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Re: This and That

Post by Sandpd on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 am

NYCelt wrote:
Sandpd wrote:
dboss wrote:If IT had surgery on the hip back in May by now his future would look a little brighter.  Any team has to be concerned that the hip issue will come back.  

If Cavs do not get to the title round how likely are they to resign him?  If they get to the championship round and lose how likely are they to resign him?

Dboss

A lot depends on LeBron - if he stays or goes elsewhere:

http://thecommittedgeneration.com/isaiah-chasing-126-million/

Sandpd,

Just a hunch on my part, but I don't think LeBron is going anywhere. I suspect he's in Cleveland for the duration. If so, I would agree that might influence what they do with Thomas. It appears IT has healed, and if they're going to re-enforce (not rebuild) that team, IT and James make a strong core.

Lots of speculation in the past centered on James going to LA, but it seems little of that guesswork has anything to do with basketball. Rather than reading about James combining with some of the young players LA now has, it seems I see more about the power of being in LA for self-promotion. I would speculate that James has become such a big global presence, that it doesn't matter where he plays. He doesn't need to go to Hollywood, the beautiful people come to him. From everywhere.

The Cavs still have a good foundation, they could easily supplement it and continue among the top 3 or 4 teams in the league. If James stays, as I think he will, IT may even want to think about making room in his driveway for that Brinks truck.

Regards

If they keep both, they'll need to sign both to max contracts, which would put them in a precarious situation in trying to maintain their core roster - that "good foundation" you speak of. IT still has visions of that brinks truck pulling up into his driveway. Lebron could possibly re-sign with the Cavs on a team-friendly deal, a la what Durant gave GS. I doubt that he'd take less $ than IT though . . . it's a status and ego thing.

Regardless, they would still be toeing the line to keep their roster together. If the Cavs re-sign both and after the dust has settled, then maybe some players become available that Danny might want to pluck. The Cavs may make the roster moves just prior to re-signing both, if that's where they're heading.

I'm just relieved that the C's don't have that conundrum about re-signing IT anymore.
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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:49 pm

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-ball-plaschke-20180108-story.html





After LaVar's latest criticism, Lakers must decide whether it's worth it to remain in the Ball business









LaVar Ball publicly feuded with President Trump after his son LiAngelo, a UCLA student-athlete, was detained in China on suspicion of shoplifting in November. (Jan. 9, 2018) (Sign up for our free video newsletter here http://bit.ly/2n6VKPR)








Bill Plaschke[email=bill.plaschke@latimes.com?subject=Regarding:%20%22After%20LaVar%27s%20latest%20criticism,%20Lakers%20must%20decide%20whether%20it%27s%20worth%20it%20to%20remain%20in%20the%20Ball%20business%22]Contact Reporter[/email]







There was nothing particularly surprising about LaVar Ball’s latest attack on the Lakers; it is generally understood he’s a blowhard joke of a father who will go to any lengths to promote himself on the backs of his children.


More alarming was son Lonzo’s reaction.


In his latest attempt to sell his sorry shoes, LaVar mounted a direct attack on Lakers coach Luke Walton from 6,000 miles away in Lithuania on Sunday morning, claiming during an ESPN interview that Walton had lost control of the team, nobody wanted to play for him, nobody connected with him, blah, blah, blah. There were no facts, no evidence; it was simply more brand-building braying from the leader of the basketball Kardashians.


Except, well, um, Lonzo didn’t dispute it.

Presented with his first chance as a Laker to choose between his father’s foolishness and his employer’s reputation, the kid chose his father.


When asked whether he was fine with Walton as his coach, Lonzo said, “I’ll play for anybody.’’


I’ll play for anybody? Those are the words of a rookie whom Walton has constantly encouraged and empowered? That is the statement from a supposed team leader to a locker room under siege?


A day later, on Monday afternoon, fellow rookie Kyle Kuzma responded much differently, saying, “Luke is my guy. I love playing for him … we stand by Luke.’’






Now that is an endorsement.


The message from Lonzo was as flat as his jump shot, and now this ongoing drama grows even thicker. The Lakers have to wonder how much the father’s loud and constant discontent is affecting the son, worry that maybe some of it is coming from the son, all of which is building toward a very serious question: Is Lonzo Ball worth it? Do the Lakers really need to stay in the Ball business?


LaVar seems beyond restraint, Lonzo isn’t either strong or mature enough to shake off his influence, and together they are creating unnecessary rumbling under the feet of a young team not yet rooted enough to withstand it.


At this muddled moment, there seems to be only one way the Lakers can regain control of a nasty narrative that is swallowing their rebuilding efforts and damaging their hopes of attracting top free agents. They need to meet with LaVar Ball and tell him if he doesn’t shut up, they will trade his son.


History says the meeting won’t go well. They’ve already met with LaVar once about quieting down and it didn’t work. Enriched by the millions of eyeballs that focus on his every word — which leads to his constant coverage by media that quotes him because it’s good business — this fame hound will not soon be silenced. LaVar is not only growing ever more desperate to maintain his profile in the wake of a sneaker business currently receiving an “F” rating from the Better Business Bureau, he’s also searching for more ways to wring money from his two younger children as they wilt in a Lithuanian gym.




So, yeah, if the Lakers make that threat, they’ll probably have to end up trading Ball, and, well, so what?


He’s a good player, but not a transformative one. He’s not their best rookie; that’s Kuzma. He’s not a future cornerstone; that’s Brandon Ingram. He makes the Lakers better, but how much better, and at what cost?


How many great free agents are going to want to play for a team whose every move could be publicly questioned by one of the player’s parents in barbs that are consumed by millions? How many great free agents will want a point guard who is unwilling to stand up to that parent?


An equation often used by sports executives in judging controversial players is, does their production surpass their distraction? In Lonzo Ball’s case, he would have to be a LeBron James-type rookie for his production to even come close.


If they could step back in time to last June, here’s guessing many in the Lakers organization wouldn’t draft Lonzo Ball. Not only has he not been as good as players such as Jayson Tatum or Donovan Mitchell, but he’s been such a hassle that the Lakers might have been better off with a dozen other lesser talents.


I remember talking with Magic Johnson on draft night. It was the first time he promised he could keep LaVar Ball quiet. He has promised it several times since. It hasn’t worked, and now it’s on Johnson to figure how to fix it once and for all. It’s on Johnson to clarify his role as the face of his franchise and show he is engaged and involved.




First, Johnson has to be the one delivering the quiet-or-else news to LaVar. Second, Johnson has to figure out a way to publicly show support of Luke Walton that goes beyond owner Jeanie Buss’ New Year’s Eve tweet of #InLukeWeTrust. Remember, Johnson was hired so Buss didn’t have to be the lone basketball voice in these matters.


Johnson and general manager Rob Pelinka are not commenting on LaVar Ball’s latest quotes because they don’t want to be seen as engaging with a no-credibility fool, but they still need a way to show their support for Walton — in a way that does not respond to LaVar but goes beyond a pat on the back for the coach. The team needs to see it. The future free agents need to see it.


Walton is not the problem here. He is growing with the team. He is doing his best to juggle winning with development and preparation for this summer’s free-agent class.


LaVar Ball is the problem here and, sadly enough, by extension, so is his son. And if you don’t think getting out of the Ball business can be good business, just check out the lighter mood in Westwood. When LiAngelo Ball dropped out of UCLA earlier this fall, the Bruins quietly celebrated. It was like a burden had been lifted.


Lonzo Ball says he’ll play for anybody, huh?


Maybe the Lakers need to give him, and his father, that chance.




bob
MY NOTE:  Bill Plaschke is an LA Times beat reporter covering the Lakers.



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Re: This and That

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:33 pm

Wow that was a diss, sad Magic drafted this punk
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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:20 pm

What a mess.  What team would trade for Lonzo?

No matter where he plays papa Ball will still run his month.  Plus I am sure Lavar would continue to troll the Lakers and the stupid media will continue to share every world.

Magic really made a mistake in drafting ball.  And his value is even less now.  

Magic and the Lakers should not even comment on things Lavar says.  Just ignore him.

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Re: This and That

Post by k_j_88 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:00 pm

Great players don't always make great GMs/owners. Let's notch this lesson as a cautionary tale in allowing certain legends to steer the ship.


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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:37 pm

What a blow out in Toronto.  First time a LeBron team has lost b2b >25 points both losses.  IT with 4 points on 2-15.


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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:42 pm

bobheckler wrote:What a blow out in Toronto.  First time a LeBron team has lost b2b >25 points both losses.  IT with 4 points on 2-15.


bob


.

Bob

I watched the game last night and was really surprised that the Raptors destroyed Cleveland even though Serge and Lowery did not play.

The Cavs have now lost 7 out of their last 10 games. This is an old team with an average age of 29.3 years old. However if you look at their rotation the average age jumps to 31. It is very difficult for older teams to sustain themselves through a grueling 82 game schedule. They are banking on being healthy enough during the playoffs to make another run at the title. They lack youthful talent. With or without Lebron the clock is ticking on their ability to remain competitive unless they get much younger.

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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:11 pm

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-lavar-ball-right-lakers-dont-support-luke-walton-215721663.html



Report: LaVar Ball was right, the Lakers don't support Luke Walton


Ben RohrbachYahoo SportsJan 12, 2018, 1:57 PM




Is Lakers coach Luke Walton really on the hot seat? (AP)



NBA coaches may have publicly labeled LaVar Ball’s criticism of Los Angeles Lakers coach Luke Walton as “irrational nonsense,” but behind closed doors league executives are wondering if Ball was right.

At least, according to ESPN’s Brian Windhorst.

LaVar, the outspoken father of Lakers rookie Lonzo Ball, told ESPN last week, “You can see they’re not playing for Luke no more. Luke doesn’t have control of the team no more. They don’t want to play for him.” And coaches from Rick Carlisle to Steve Kerr and Gregg Popovich all came to Walton’s defense.

Two entities who didn’t come to Walton’s defense: Lonzo and the Lakers.

“I’ll play for anybody,” said Lonzo.

As for the Lakers, there’s been little public support for Walton, outside of a tepid hashtag from owner Jeanie Buss and some anonymous sourcing about the coach’s job not being in danger. We’ll let Windhorst explain on the Rich Eisen Show, via Slam magazine, how that is playing across the NBA:




“Whatever you want to say about LaVar Ball, he has smoked out the fact that the Lakers do not support Luke Walton. And that is now crystal clear. And there are now guys out there wondering openly to me — executives, coaching agents — who the Lakers are going to hire as their next coach. Because that has been revealed here: That they do not have unconditional support for Luke.”
Can you imagine if the Lakers dump Walton after what LaVar said? What kind of message would that send to a young team? They might as well make LaVar the coach at that point. Or, says Windhorst:

“I got executives in my ear, I got agents in my ear, saying, ‘Oh yeah, they’re probably going to hire David Fizdale.’”
And why do people around the NBA think the Lakers will go after Fizdale? According to Windhorst, it’s because LeBron James likes Fiz and publicly supported him after his firing from the Memphis Grizzlies.


https://twitter.com/ShadowLeagueTSL/status/935366892201631744

The Shadow League
✔️
@ShadowLeagueTSL
LeBron speaks out about David Fizdale getting fired: "Maybe that's what it was, because he ain't gonna kiss nobody's ass I know that."
8:37 PM - Nov 27, 2017
Replies   22 22 Retweets   43 43 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy


This is a lot of dots to connect, especially since we’re just four days removed from Windhorst’s ESPN colleague Ramona Shelburne reporting that Walton losing his job is “not even a real conversation.”


Ramona Shelburne
✔️
@ramonashelburne
Luke Walton's job status is "not even a conversation" according to a Lakers source. https://twitter.com/NotoriousOHM/status/950085164327038976 …
12:15 PM - Jan 7, 2018
135 135 Replies   305 305 Retweets   907 907 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy


Of course, conversations can change after the season. Fizdale is a good coach. The Lakers also thought Walton was one not long ago. Whether they still do remains a mystery. Only LaVar Ball knows, I guess.




bob



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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:20 pm

Much speculation is based on the fact that Laker management did not come out and publicly show their support for Walton.  Maybe they decided not to respond to Lavar or maybe their long term strategy was never to keep Walton in place throughout the entire rebuild.

The Lakers are not trying to tank this year because they do not have a #1 pick and they need to at least put forth an attractive situation for free agents to consider.  I think they are in a very difficult situation because a coaching change halfway through the season is not going to get it.  This team cannot play defense and part of that is lack of schemes and the other part is lack of defensive players.

I think Walton will be gone but not until the end of the season if LA is not able to make a dutiful run at a playoff berth.

Also the issue is not whether Lavar Ball was right or wrong.  The issue is one of protocol and the inappropriateness of making a statement because his son plays for them and is a high profile player and it undermines the team.

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Re: This and That

Post by k_j_88 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:22 pm

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-cavaliers-grumbled-lebron-james-210002382.html?utm_content=socialflow&utm_campaign=yahoosports&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social


Report: Cavaliers have grumbled about LeBron James hunting assists

Dan Feldman
NBC Sports•Jan 13, 2018 4:00 PM

Tyronn Lue said the Cavaliers – who’ve lost seven of nine – must play without personal agendas.

What did the coach mean by that?

Perhaps, LeBron James‘ ball-handling and Lue’s handling of Tristan Thompson‘s and Channing Frye‘s playing time would be the right place to start.
Joe Vardon of Cleveland.com:

Players have grumbled that James has slowed the ball movement, holding onto the ball until he sees an “assist” pass, rather than moving it quickly.

Players are grumbling about Lue’s lineups, wondering if Thompson should start and if Channing Frye should play more.

Report: Cavaliers have grumbled about LeBron James hunting assists

Dan Feldman
NBC Sports•Jan 13, 2018 4:00 PM

Tyronn Lue said the Cavaliers – who’ve lost seven of nine – must play without personal agendas.

What did the coach mean by that?

Perhaps, LeBron James‘ ball-handling and Lue’s handling of Tristan Thompson‘s and Channing Frye‘s playing time would be the right place to start.

Joe Vardon of Cleveland.com:

Players have grumbled that James has slowed the ball movement, holding onto the ball until he sees an “assist” pass, rather than moving it quickly.

Players are grumbling about Lue’s lineups, wondering if Thompson should start and if Channing Frye should play more.

There’s truth in both these gripes.

LeBron has held the ball 4.89 seconds per touch (up from 4.37 last year) and dribbled 3.67 times per touch (up from 3.28 last year), according to NBA.com. He wants to win, but he also wants to win on his terms – being seen as the leader and racking up stats that earn praise (like MVP).

The Cavs have fared excellently with Frye on the court (+11.1 per 100 possessions). Thompson has mostly struggled this season, but he’s also playing a career-low 19 minutes per game. As long as the Cavaliers have him, they ought to try getting him going.

On the other hand, LeBron is one of the greatest players and passers of all-time. Putting the ball in his hands more is rarely a problem. He can deliver it to anyone anywhere in the halfcourt at anytime.

Cleveland clearly doesn’t trust Frye defensively against the Warriors, so why give major minutes now to someone who won’t help in the biggest moments? Likewise, more playing time might not be the answer to Thompson’s problems.

There are arguments and counterarguments in all of this. The Cavaliers’ bigger issue is that they’re so frustrated, they’re grumbling to the media. That’s far less likely to happen on winning teams. Yet, the grumbling only makes the Cavs more likely to lose more.

They need to nip this in the bud before it snowballs even further.

(Or not. Maybe they can just dial it up again in the playoffs, no matter how much they meander in the regular season – just like the last couple years.)


---

Early signs of dysfunction? When players start going to the media.


KJ


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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:57 pm

Lebron's does have the ball in his hands longer this year but maybe that is because they traded Kyrie Irving to Boston.

The Cavs statistically are not much different than last year.

The big difference that stands out is that teams like Boston and Toronto are better.

The Cavs finished last year with a winning percentage of .622 and this year they are winning at a .619 clip.  Their PPG are slightly down from last year (110.3 ppg) to 109.5 ppg.  their defense is also not as good as they are giving up 108.5 ppg and last year opponents averaged 107.2 ppg.  There is little to point to statistically that says Cleveland is a worse team.

Maybe once IT is fully integrated into their offense they will become a better offensive team however their defense with IT on the court is likely to see a decline.

The league does not stand still.  You either get better or worse or remain the same.  The Cavs are pretty much the same but are clearly leaning in the wrong direction.

Last year only 2 teams in the EC played  .500 ball or better on the road.  The Cavs were not one of those teams.  This year 4 teams are playing at or above .500 and again the Cavs are not one of them.  

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Re: This and That

Post by Phil Pressey on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:06 pm

I was wondering who Lue was complaining about. It couldn't have been Isaiah. He was scoring a point a minute then slumped, but he only just got back.

Cleveland seems doomed. I think the Wizards are posers, but maybe so are the Cavs.

A well-coached, good group of guys always has a puncher's chance. Cleveland is banking on past results and turning on a switch.

There was something about Lue telling Kyrie to pick up the pace. Irving said he can always get off his shot or pass and that it was LeBron dominating the offense, not him. I think that's what happened.
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Re: This and That

Post by dboss on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:50 pm

We can only speculate who Lou was referring to regarding agendas.  I doubt it was James.  

I would point to guys that are not playing.

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Re: This and That

Post by k_j_88 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:59 pm

I think what is more telling are Lue's comments. Agenda implies something way more personal. He seems to think he's got a few acting selfishly.

IT wants a big contract. He clearly has some motivation to showcase himself. Lebron is also a free agent after this year.

We also have players questioning Lue's coaching. I've said from the start we don't know how good of a coach he is.


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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:53 pm

https://sports.yahoo.com/cavaliers-players-send-anonymous-message-front-office-need-help-165648277.html





Cavaliers players send anonymous message to front office: We need help








Ben Rohrbach
Yahoo Sports





Jan 16, 2018, 8:56 AM









Following Monday’s loss to the Golden State Warriors, a number of “prominent” Cleveland Cavaliers anonymously shared their concerns with ESPN, The Athletic and Cleveland.comthat the team is not equipped to recover from its current January swoon the same way past iterations of the roster have.

This is not merely frustration from losing to the reigning NBA champions for the seventh time in eight meetings or mounting anger over dropping eight of their last 10 outings. This is also a clear message to the front office that something has to change before the trade deadline, because the theme from Cavs players who let the team’s three primary beat reporters behind the curtain was, via ESPN’s Dave McMenamin, “an aging roster, defensively challenged personnel and a glut of redundant role players.”

And, via The Athletic’s Jason Lloyd:


Players on both teams Monday were quietly acknowledging that [Kyrie] Irving’s absence has changed the entire complexion of this rivalry.

And, via Cleveland.com’s Joe Vardon:


“Rotations are awful. IT [Isaiah Thomas] is so much worse than Kyrie defensively it’s insane,” said a league source. “There is not a great feeling anywhere. They need to limp into the All-Star break and get away from each other.”

Thomas is the elephant in the Cavaliers’ locker room, and his struggles were a central focus of the three postgame dispatches from Cleveland. He’s shooting 36.1 percent on 14.4 shots and averaging almost as many turnovers (2.4) as he is assists (3.4), and they are allowing a mind-boggling 116.8 points per 100 possessions in the 116 minutes he’s been on the floor. Meanwhile, Irving is an MVP candidate for the East-leading Boston Celtics, who now lead the Cavs by 7.5 games in the standings.

This should not be surprising. Thomas required seven months of rehab for a torn hip labrum, and Lloyd counted seven occasions that the two-time All-Star point guard has lamented the team’s lack of practice as reason for his ineffectiveness. “We don’t practice,” Thomas added Monday, via The Athletic. “So [the] only thing that’s going to help me is getting reps and running up and down the floor.”

The problem, though, is that Thomas told reporters this past weekend it could be 15-20 games before he finds his rhythm, and that brings the Cavaliers to the All-Star break, when GM Koby Altman will be faced with a decision — to chase a fourth straight Finals appearance by trading future assets, including the first-round pick from the lottery-bound Brooklyn Nets that the Cavs acquired in the Irving-for-Thomas swap, or to keep them as rebuilding insurance should LeBron leave in free agency.


LeBron James shares his frustration during a recent Cavaliers loss. (AP)


According to McMenamin, “several league sources told ESPN that the Cavs would prefer to hold onto the pick as a potential franchise-resetting asset should LeBron James leave as a free agent in July.”

LeBron’s unwillingness to inform Cleveland of his plans this coming summer leaves Altman in a bind, and if the four-time MVP is one of the prominent players all but asking for reinforcements through the media, then that bind becomes more like the vice that Joe Pesci used as a torture device in “Casino.”

It’s become clear that the Cavs no longer have a roster equipped to compete with the Warriors in another championship rematch, and it’s becoming clearer that they may not be able to hold off the Celtics and Toronto Raptors in order to get LeBron to his eighth straight Finals — no matter how many times James tells us, “I love our potential,” or Cleveland coach Tyronn Lue says, “We’re not right now, but we will be the best team in the East. We’re not playing the best right now, but we will be.”

Will the Cavs mortgage their future for what could be one last run with LeBron and/or one last shot to convince him they can continue competing for titles? We’ll find out by the Feb. 8 trade deadline.









bob








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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:08 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/carmelo-anthony-done-refs-player-official-divide-keeps-widening-203949072.html




Carmelo Anthony is 'done with the refs,' and the player-official divide keeps widening








 Ben Rohrbach,Yahoo Sports 2 hours 3 minutes ago 

 


 

 


Inside the NBA: Rockets-Clippers Locker Room Drama








After one of the wildest NBA regular-season nights in recent memory — complete with 21 technical fouls, five ejections and two near postgame confrontations 3,000 miles apart in Philadelphia and Los Angeles — tensions between players and referees have escalated even further, if that’s possible.

Less than a week after ripping referee Scott Foster for perceived unprofessionalism, Houston Rockets point guard and National Basketball Players Association president Chris Paul reportedly led a group of teammates into the Los Angeles Clippers locker room to confront Blake Griffin and Austin Rivers — an incident currently under investigation by the NBA that required police and security to intervene.

Across the country, in Philadelphia, 76ers rookie Ben Simmons told Toronto Raptors star Kyle Lowry to meet him in the hallway after the two were ejected late in the game, and Lowry actually showed up:

Griffin, Simmons, Lowry and Rockets wing Trevor Ariza all earned ejections on Monday. As we mentioned, Paul is the NBPA president. Ariza and Lowry are both the player representatives for their teams in the union, and Simmons is an alternate. This is the leadership that is expected to send three members to meet with a trio of referees at the All-Star break to discuss growing tensions with officials and what the players believe is a lack of respect from refs. This is not a great look for the players.

Meanwhile, in Brooklyn, Nets guard D’Angelo Russell, still sidelined due to injury, earned a technical foul from the bench, seemingly for sarcastically applauding a referee Brian Forte’s quick whistle:

Phoenix Suns veteran Jared Dudley took that as a sign of things “getting out of hand”:

Of course, that was before the night really went awry.

In Oklahoma City, Thunder star Russell Westbrook took a hit to the face from Sacramento Kings big man Willie Cauley-Stein, only the reigning MVP was whistled for a travel. That led to some questions for referee Matt Boland, who promptly whistled Westbrook for consecutive technicals and an ejection:

Thunder coach Billy Donovan then received a tech from ref Gediminas Petraitis for seeking an explanation from the crew for why his star player was tossed for “a terrible” officiating “mistake”:

This is not a great look for the officials.

Westbrook left without meeting with the media, but Carmelo Anthony — a vice president in the NBPA — spoke for his Thunder teammate when asked if losing their cool let the Kings back into the game:

“We let them back in or the refs?” asked Anthony.

Naturally, more questions about the officials followed:


 
“Yeah, I’m done with them,” he said. “I’m done with the refs. No disrespect, but I’m done with those guys.”

This comes a week after Anthony publicly criticized the current crop of officials for a too-quick hook:

If the players’ union still plans on meeting with the referees’ union behind closed doors at the All-Star break, Paul and Anthony — two of the NBPA’s eight-member executive committee — would be leading candidates to participate, and they both will have spent the lead-up to the meeting making their talking points clear through the media. You wonder if we’ll ever get to hear from the officials on this.
And what point does the NBA mediate what is clearly a burgeoning divide between the two sides?

 
“I’m listening to the players’ complaints, but I’m also listening to the referees’ complaints,” NBA commissioner Adam Silver told reporters inLondon last week. “And I’d say that although it seems to be getting a fair amount of attention at the moment, we’ve looked back at the data that we have from over the years. There haven’t been a greater number of ejections or a greater number of technicals. There’s nothing aberrational happening in terms of the calls being made on the floor.

 
“But it’s something that people are talking about. I recognize that. We have a small enough league where I think it’s about building relationships. I know that it’s been reported that a group of players are planning to get together with a group of officials at the All-Star break. I hope that really does happen, and I think the notion there is these are all important constituent groups in the league. They’re all stakeholders, and to the extent that a few members of the players’ executive board can meet with a few members of the officials’ executive board and try to understand each other’s perspective, I think that will be helpful.”

With each passing week, though, it seems less and less likely that they will find common ground.




bob




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Re: This and That

Post by bobheckler on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:44 am

For those who don't know, after a chippy game in LA vs the Clippers, a couple of Houston Rockets went to the Clippers locker room and confronted the Clips.  At the heart of it, I believe Austin Rivers, who was in a suit and walking boot on the sidelines and is the poster boy for nepotism, was talking smack during the game at Ariza.  Chris Paul, who knows the Staples Center well, lead James Harden and Trevor Ariza through an underground tunnel to the Clippers' locker room.  LAPD were called.  Seriously, the LA police were called in to quell this "riot".

Shaq and Barkley almost herniated themselves laughing about this:  






Here's the full story:

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/16/16896380/rockets-clippers-fight-locker-room-chris-paul-austin-rivers



bob


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Re: This and That

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