Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by Phil Pressey on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:03 am

You're right. Al isn't as good as KG for defense. Smart is a mini-KG. They are at 100% defense skill level in video games and real life. KG doesn't get Al's assists. KG didn't take many threes. KG was spectacular. We were lucky he was a Celtic. #17!

Al is close though. He edges KG on offense? It might not be fair to rate anyone against KG. For the current game, Horford is one of the best this year. I hope Brad keeps protecting him by playing Baynes.

It's Stevens' system. Irving is a thoughtful guy like Rondo. The stars have to align. LeBron was that dominating a figure. His contract was up. Lots of drama on the horizon.

Stevens might be the greatest coach of all time. He is still learning too. No one thought a college coach could do well. Isaiah didn't bring the ball up every time. Rozier can handle that. It is a motion offense. The defense is spectacular. His won-loss record doesn't lie considering what he had to work with in year one.

Horford looked a bit iffy for max money, but he had a good playoffs and this year he has played at close to KG level. He blocked that three tonight. He wasn't doing that at all last year. Don't play Al against big centers. He isn't Evander Holyfield. We need one more big in between Theis and Baynes on the big big meter. Just one more solid big to preserve Horford. Al might be a basketball genius. All those guys are. Just get one more big and then I'd bet money on the Celtics. No money. Get one or two more players like all contenders do this time of year and then bring on Cleveland and Golden State. I think the C's if healthy are winning it all. Hayward will return in the Willis Reed role. Nothing to jeopardize, but if he's healed, he's back. He's young. This isn't Shaq with his ankle falling off at age 40.

That was a lost Doc/Danny title. Shaq was great with Rondo.
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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by mulcogiseng on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:43 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:I love the way Al is playing, but I don’t think he’s quite in the MVP conversation, he’s definitely skilled and plays good defense, but is not near KG’s level on defense, not a knock on him, KG’s defense was just that manic and dominant. Kyrie has really shocked the basketball world IMHO, no one knew he had such ability to make others better, than he was ever given credit for in Cleveland. Kyrie has the green light and he just routinely takes over in crunch time, and if you are open, he will get you the ball....I don’t know how much of this is Brad Stevens influence and system or Kyrie’s expansion of his game, probably both but Kyrie has to be given credit because he does the passing and pnr at a great level, he’s not Terry Rozier like as a passer. The fact that we lost our all star wing Hayward and Kyrie can lead and carry such a young team and his game is soo entertaining and dazzling, he’s got to be in the conversation....and he takes over in the clutch. This is why we will win more than 60 games this year, in a close game, who attacks and makes the right play better than Kyrie? and he has the pieces, as young as some might be to also be able to make the play/shot after he beats his man, which he does very routinely. Close games we have Kyrie and the system, Brads that are so good. Kyrie is just going to break you down and break you down, he’s relentless.

No argument from me Cow. But for me the biggest surprise is his defense. I'm valuing his deflections as an indicator of the tremendous effort he gives. It's like his total game has improved by 1/3 or something. And he still has room for improvement. I think Kyrie knew he could play like this but wouldn't be able to do so in Cleveland. One of the big differences between IT and Kyrie in crunch time is that IT would just shoulder the responsibility and get it done on his own. Kyrie is still playing within the team framework when he starts taking over. Another difference is that IT never had the support he could trust whereas Kyrie is definitely making his team better while still leading the way. "Dazzling" was a good choice of words.
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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by jrleftfoot on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:45 am

dboss wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:Wow, yeah totally reject the premise of this thread and am surprised to read it on a site of so called educated Celtics fans.

First and foremost, Boston is a city centered around loyalty and respect.  Doc did a lot (note A LOT) for the city of Boston.  He was very active in the community, with charity work and giving of his time.  He took the Celtics from the dark days of Rick Pitino and Jim O'Brien - and gave them credibility and stature and made us Celtics fans feel good about ourselves.  He is THIRD on the all time Celtics win list behind Red and Tommy.  He worked hard to keep Paul Pierce happy in the face of some pretty awful seasons. This was by far the biggest factor in the Celtics winning in 2008.  No Pirece = No Garnett = No Allen = NO TITLE.

Speaking of which - Doc Rivers is a champion.  Forever in history, he is at the center of that 2008 team - a team that made two more legit runs.  No one here can diminish the job he did.  

To take proven stars like that and forge an atmosphere of each giving a little for the better of the team is not easy to do.  He did it.  He took the team to Rome and turned into from players into brothers.  He had people like Perk and Rondo who would run through the wall for him.  And he stood up for his players with the league, the refs, management, media.

Doc already paid his dues PRIOR to the 2008 season.  He did his time during a 'rebuild', he had no obligation to anyone to sit through another tear it down to the ground project and has NOTHING to be ashamed of.

Sad to read this thread - really shows a lack of respect for one of our greatest coaches and an even better person.

Kleen

Why the hell would you feel sad because of criticism about Doc Rivers?  Yes doc did win a title as a coach and I am sure he is a really good person.  No one can deny that.  

But no one can deny that Danny Ainge is the one who put the team together and no one can deny that it was Kevin Garnett that was the center of the 2008 championship.  

Doc made his decision to leave because he did not want to go through another rebuilding project.  He may have been fired in 2007 by most GM's.  Losing 18 straight games was the worst for any prior Celtics coach.  And let's not forget he lost 19 straight coaching Orlando in the 2003-2004 season.  So Danny and the Celtics were loyal to him but he was loyal to his own self interests.  Those self-interests have come back and bit him on the ass.  So Celtics fans may take amusement in what has transpired.  

When he went to the Clippers he said it was the most talented group of players he ever had.  To me that was a slap in the face to the teams that he had in Boston.  He is the type of coach that looks to place the blame on someone else.

dboss
I`m no big Rivers fan , but calling his new team the best he had ever coached is standard puffing. I don`t consider it a slap in the face to KG  et al and I seriously doubt they took it that way as the spun their championship rings around their fingers.
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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by dboss on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:15 pm

I sure hope Doc coaches his team like they were the most talented team he ever had.

They are currently tied with the other LA team which potentially mucks up our pick. The last thing the Celtics need is for doc to chew on Danny's draft pick.

dboss
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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:01 pm

mulcogiseng wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I love the way Al is playing, but I don’t think he’s quite in the MVP conversation, he’s definitely skilled and plays good defense, but is not near KG’s level on defense, not a knock on him, KG’s defense was just that manic and dominant. Kyrie has really shocked the basketball world IMHO, no one knew he had such ability to make others better, than he was ever given credit for in Cleveland. Kyrie has the green light and he just routinely takes over in crunch time, and if you are open, he will get you the ball....I don’t know how much of this is Brad Stevens influence and system or Kyrie’s expansion of his game, probably both but Kyrie has to be given credit because he does the passing and pnr at a great level, he’s not Terry Rozier like as a passer. The fact that we lost our all star wing Hayward and Kyrie can lead and carry such a young team and his game is soo entertaining and dazzling, he’s got to be in the conversation....and he takes over in the clutch. This is why we will win more than 60 games this year, in a close game, who attacks and makes the right play better than Kyrie? and he has the pieces, as young as some might be to also be able to make the play/shot after he beats his man, which he does very routinely. Close games we have Kyrie and the system, Brads that are so good. Kyrie is just going to break you down and break you down, he’s relentless.

No argument from me Cow. But for me the biggest surprise is his defense. I'm valuing his deflections as an indicator of the tremendous effort he gives. It's like his total game has improved by 1/3 or something. And he still has room for improvement.  I think Kyrie knew he could play like this but wouldn't be able to do so in Cleveland. One of the big differences between IT and Kyrie in crunch time is that IT would just shoulder the responsibility and get it done on his own. Kyrie is still playing within the team framework when he starts taking over. Another difference is that IT never had the support he could trust whereas Kyrie is definitely making his team better while still leading the way. "Dazzling" was a good choice of words.

Agreed, Kyrie's offensive game is better than IT at every level, he could easily average 30, but as a scoring point, he knows he has a lot of talent and openly spreads the wealth. He can score in so many more creative dazzling ways than IT who we all loved, but took such a pounding. Night and day how much easier the game is for Al playing with/off Kyrie.
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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by hawksnestbeach on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:29 pm

I'm not a Doc fan, recall the relentless Fire Doc threads. IMO, he's lucky Danny hired him, but I will give him Ubuntu. I think he's probably a very nice guy. I haven't heard him in the booth that I recall, but he might thrive there. I appreciate '08 and I'm glad that team still gathers around him. I like him, but not as a coach... But that's all in the past and this year's team is special. I agree, Phil: the future is now. Add that other Big so Al can be Al, and not a wrestler, and we're on our way! Hawk

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Re: Doc Rivers Must Feel Foolish For Leaving Boston

Post by Phil Pressey on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:03 am

hawksnestbeach wrote:I'm not a Doc fan, recall the relentless Fire Doc threads. IMO, he's lucky Danny hired him, but I will give him Ubuntu. I think he's probably a very nice guy. I haven't heard him in the booth that I recall, but he might thrive there. I appreciate '08 and I'm glad that team still gathers around him. I like him, but not as a coach... But that's all in the past and this year's team is special. I agree, Phil: the future is now. Add that other Big so Al can be Al, and not a wrestler, and we're on our way! Hawk

Doc was Benedict Arnold, but I say that in a playful way. He should have stayed, imho. That was pure Peter Principle. I bet Stevens will be around for forty years, take over for Danny when he retires.

Yup, Doc gets credit for Ubuntu and Thibodeau for the defense. Danny for stacking the roster. The players for sublimating ego for the greater good.

Too much is riding on Horford to overuse him on big centers.

Semi is too short. I look forward to impending Danny moves. I can't imagine he does nothing.
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