Jae Crowder is Delusional

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Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:20 pm

I'm talking just about basketball. Hat tip goes to Rosalie for mentioning he has made recent comments about expectations for Boston fans. He needs to let it go!

I claimed Jackie, Mark Spears and Bulpett as my favorite basketball writers. This Jay King guy is also good. He covered the Jae Crowder story. I don't think this was King's best effort. I agree the C's should give Jae a little moment, but I don't think the reporters ask questions and players give the same comments is a defense. And while Jae wasn't trying to cripple Gordon, it was a dirty move with a horrific result. You don't push a guy while he is in mid-air. The same thing happened to Perk by the Lakers. Wade tore off Rondo's arm as a result not intention, but it was still a dirty play.

I'm in the Rosalie camp for this sort of story. The trades happened. Get over it. Although I still enjoy debates on Doc Rivers and Rajon Rondo making me a hypocrite. Here's to a good, clean game tonight and may the best team win.

Jae Crowder thinks Boston Celtics fans should show him love -- and he's right

Updated Jan 2, 3:50 PM; Posted Jan 2, 4:00 PM



Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James, left, celebrates with teammate Jae Crowder, right, as he walks off the court after an NBA basketball game against the Washington Wizards, Friday, Nov. 3, 2017, in Washington. (AP Photo/Nick Wass)

By Jay King mjking@masslive.com
Though Isaiah Thomas won't play against the Boston Celtics on Wednesday night, Jae Crowder will be making his initial appearance at TD Garden since the Celtics traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers this summer. That prompted a reporter to ask Crowder about the crowd reception he expects, and, wouldn't you know it, he hopes to receive a warm ovation:



Though I believe most Celtics fans will readily cheer Crowder for what he accomplished over two-plus seasons with the team, a chunk of people have also lit my Twitter mentions on fire with complaints about him. So here's a message to the Crowder haters out there. I'll go one by one arguing against the criticisms I've seen the most.

1. Crowder won't stop mentioning the time fans cheered for Hayward!

Now we're supposed to be surprised Jae Crowder has a chip on his shoulder? Of course he has a chip on his shoulder. That mentality helped him emerge as a quality starter after spending years on the bench in Dallas. In Boston he helped set the tone for a group that always believed in itself despite being a collection of castoffs and vagabonds. And he did it while using slights -- perceived and otherwise -- as motivation.

Even if he probably wasn't entirely serious when he mentioned it to reporters Tuesday, it's no surprise Crowder has held onto the moment when the Celtics crowd cheered Hayward, who was still with the Utah Jazz at the time. That combative attitude is what drew Celtics fans to the rugged forward in the first place. Don't turn on him now just because the chip no longer convinces him to say things you like.

2. Crowder made a dirty play on Hayward!

I've watched that play way too many times (once was more than enough) and I'm convinced Crowder didn't intend to undercut Hayward. Maybe I'm wrong, but Brad Stevens agrees with me.

"I thought that LeBron (James) actually read the play, jumped up, deflected the pass and it was just an unfortunate, awkward landing," Stevens said earlier this season. "There was no ill will, no fault. That was just a unique landing from what I saw."

3. Crowder shouldn't be saying he deserves cheers!

Here's how the whole NBA media thing works: reporters ask players questions, the players respond, and the reporters share the information. If Crowder said he believes he deserves an ovation, it's only because someone asked him whether he does. And it's natural that he thinks he should receive one.

He gave Boston a lot over two-plus seasons, emerging as a key piece on a team that dragged the franchise out of dark times. Without the recent success he helped the Celtics achieve, there's no way the team would have signed Al Horford and Gordon Hayward in back-to-back summers.

And Crowder always approached his job the right way. Everyone in the Celtics organization echoes praise for his professionalism.

"Great toughness, played a variety of positions," Stevens said Tuesday after practice. "When we really needed versatile guys to do a lot of things on both ends of the floor, he was probably the guy that was able to swing to a big position the most and play a wing. He brought a consistent approach and toughness to our team."

Added Jaylen Brown: "Jae, he's a pro. He prepares each and every game how to win. That's one of the main things I learned from those guys last year is how to prepare to win. He did whatever he needed to to get his body ready and everything else came after. So he's a pro basketball player first and everything comes second. And I respect that."

So should Celtics fans. People are free to be fans in their own way, but I just don't understand the disrespect for someone who showed up in Boston as an afterthought, worked his way into a lot more than that, and fought to make the Celtics relevant again.
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by NYCelt on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:42 pm

Phil,

Caught a little bit of NBA TV last night and the general consensus there was that Crowder has always been a whiner. A hard-worker, but overly sensitive to the slightest perceived slight. I think he showed that tendency when he was here last year, especially with his part in the flap over fans cheering for Hayward.

Crowder is a good, hard-working player. One that any team would be glad to have. I would have to agree that he just needs to bite his lip sometimes.

Regards
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:02 pm

Thanks for the comment, NYCelt.

I have a theory that Crowder flops through his voice. He always screams going to the hoop. He sells fouls through his voice while bricking layups.

He made a leap here, but then stagnated. Horford is showing more touch around the rim. Crowder was always an adventure on his drives to the hoop. He should be more like Avery Bradley and focus on improving little parts of his game each year. He seemed to hit a ceiling and then stagnated. Olynyk arguably passed Sullinger as a player because he worked on things while Sully seemed to think he could just show up. I get that same vibe with Jae Crowder. Maybe I'm wrong. But he should cut back on the sodium and just work on his game and making Cleveland a stronger contender.

He is solid, no doubt, and is probably feeling a bit ripped off signing for much less than other players are getting.

I don't get how LeBron, Crowder and Kevin Love at center is supposed to be scary as a front court opponent. LeBron is definitely a menace. He is such a great player, yet very beatable by good teams with cohesion. Lots of nails will be chewed tonight and we shall see.
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:02 pm

I for one would cheer loud and long for Crowder. If he comes off a bit churlish, I think it is because he really did give his all to the Celtics. Loved the guy when he was here, and see no reason to change my perception of him now that he wears a different jersey.

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by k_j_88 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Crowder's head is in the wrong place. I'm sure he'll get some cheers due to his contributions while playing in Boston... However his role in Hayward's injury and lost season may still leave a bad taste in the mouths of some fans... And if people resonate with the later, I can't blame them.


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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:32 pm

k_j_88 wrote:Crowder's head is in the wrong place. I'm sure he'll get some cheers due to his contributions while playing in Boston... However his role in Hayward's injury and lost season may still leave a bad taste in the mouths of some fans... And if people resonate with the later, I can't blame them.


KJ

I totally disagree. The Hayward injury was sickening and tragic (Hopefully not long term tragic), but I don't feel that blaming Crowder is in any way appropriate. It was a freak accident, there is no way ANYONE could have predicted the outcome, nevermind a player caught up in the moment playing a game. Jae plays hard, but he is not a dirty player. Thus, I whole heartedly disagree with anyone who lays the blame on Jae's feet.

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by k_j_88 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:26 pm

Shamrock ,

Did I specifically blame him? No. I said some fans might still take issue with him... And obviously no one predicts when a freak injury will happen.

KJ
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:37 pm

k_j_88 wrote:Shamrock ,

Did I specifically blame him? No. I said some fans might still take issue with him... And obviously no one predicts when a freak injury will happen.

KJ

Fair enough KJ - I ammend my statement: I totally disagree with those who might blame Jae for Gordon's freak accident, and I don't sympathize with those who hold that view in any way.

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:38 pm

I take issue with the play.

Here's one video with opinions calling it dirty. It doesn't show anything horrifying. It needn't be watched. People like us exist. I don't agree that it was an unfortunate clean play.



Cleveland looked scared before tip-off knowing that the Celtics were stacked. Then five minutes into the game it was deja vu to Shaq's Achilles' Heel giving out. Or Rondo's arm. You don't mess with a guy when he's in the air. Crowder knew what he was doing. He didn't mean to kill Hayward's leg, but that's what happened. Kyrie Irving is a man and accepts blame for putting Hayward in a tough spot, but I blame Jae.

I blame Baynes a bit for cracking Kyrie's face. He should be more careful. Players need to play a bit of contact, but it should be a safe sport in general. I'm not calling for flag football, but there is no excuse for hurting others by playing dirty or being negligent like Baynes.

It was never confirmed, but I think Zeller was the one who gave Al Horford a concussion.
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:44 pm

That is not the point Phil. It was a freak accident, which means the outcome of the play couldn't be predicted. Hard fouls are a part of the game, and even if it was a little "dirty", Crowder obviously couldn't have predicted the outcome. To suggest otherwise is unfair.

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:48 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:That is not the point Phil. It was a freak accident, which means the outcome of the play couldn't be predicted. Hard fouls are a part of the game, and even if it was a little "dirty", Crowder obviously couldn't have predicted the outcome. To suggest otherwise is unfair.

It was a dirty play, period. I pointed out there is a difference between intent and outcome, so if "to suggest otherwise is unfair" is directed at me, it means you are barking at the wrong person.
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:57 pm

Phil Pressey wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:That is not the point Phil. It was a freak accident, which means the outcome of the play couldn't be predicted. Hard fouls are a part of the game, and even if it was a little "dirty", Crowder obviously couldn't have predicted the outcome. To suggest otherwise is unfair.

It was a dirty play, period. I pointed out there is a difference between intent and outcome, so if "to suggest otherwise is unfair" is directed at me, it means you are barking at the wrong person.

Cool, sorry if it seemed directed at you - I 100% agree intent and outcome can't be equated here. When Jae was on the Celtics, he never seemed like a dirty player so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here. This will be my last comment on the topic since I seem to be in the minority here.

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Have we looked at the actual play?

Here's a video on it. I didn't do this before because I don't like watching arms and legs get broken. It makes me squeamish.

Gordon Hayward dislocates ankle, fractures tibia in Celtics debut

I look at it without watching the result. Crowder turns around and deliberately backs into Hayward. It was extremely dirty and the NBA refers to such actions as "unnatural acts."

Crowder's intent was for Gordon to miss the shot without a called foul. The drunk driver isn't intending to kill anyone when they hit the road, but it happens, and they are punished for it.

LeBron went for the ball and it wasn't his fault. He even patted Hayward before he got wheeled off. I see Crowder nowhere.

How can anyone argue that wasn't a dirty play which resulted in a horrific injury?
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:11 pm

Phil Pressey wrote:Have we looked at the actual play?

Here's a video on it. I didn't do this before because I don't like watching arms and legs get broken. It makes me squeamish.

Gordon Hayward dislocates ankle, fractures tibia in Celtics debut

I look at it without watching the result. Crowder turns around and deliberately backs into Hayward. It was extremely dirty and the NBA refers to such actions as "unnatural acts."

Crowder's intent was for Gordon to miss the shot without a called foul. The drunk driver isn't intending to kill anyone when they hit the road, but it happens, and they are punished for it.

LeBron went for the ball and it wasn't his fault. He even patted Hayward before he got wheeled off. I see Crowder nowhere.

How can anyone argue that wasn't a dirty play which resulted in a horrific injury?

Ok man, you are entitled to your own opinions. I acknowledged earlier that it might have been a dirty play, though certainly not even close to the dirtiest play in basketball. I watched the video several times in slow motion. Crowder was beaten by Gordon, and chasing him from behind when Gordon goes up for the pass. As Lebron comes flying in from another direction, Crowder rolls his body so his back comes under Gordon's legs. The contact with Lebron sends Gordon spinning in midair and then he lands horrifically. The roll thing was a little weird, but its hard to tell if he was really trying to submarine him or was trying to get out of the way of the Lebron/Hayward collision. I will even give you that it may have been a dirty play, but it is not fair to suggest Jae was trying to hurt him. It was an unfortunate 3 body collision, the outcome of which is unpredictable by its very nature. Mchale clotheslining Rambis was clearly a dirtier play than that. Gronk's late hit on Tre'Davious White was also a dirtier play. However, neither play resulted in a bizarre freakish injury. I don't think of Gronk or McHale as dirty players. Hell, some people praise McHale for that clotheline. What if Rambis had been seriously injured?? Crowder should be percieved as a guy who made a dirty play, period, and should be free of these insinuations that he meant to hurt him. Perhaps I am wrong, but I haven't heard any players or coaches suggest it was anything other than an unfortunate play??

And sorry, but I don't buy the drunk driver analogy. Everybody is aware that drinking while driving can cause deaths. Thus, drunk drivers make a decision that they are willing to take that risk when they get behind the wheel, well before the accident happens. It is nothing like the instinctive decisions made by players positioning their bodies to make a play.


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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by dboss on Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:09 pm

What a cruel world it is.

A nobody like Crowder comes over in a trade and brad puts him in a positional to be successful. I never heard of Jae Crowder before he got here. I loved how hard he played for the Celtics and at the same time posted a need to upgrade his position.

I do not miss him and I do not miss IT, KO, Bradley, Jonas, Amir, young or any other player that is gone from this team.

All of them were appreciated when they were here (except for maybe Young who was a bad pick by Danny)

Celtics fans traditionally show appreciation for former players that return while playing for a new team

The best way to be appreciated is to come in and play well. Show the fans what they are missing
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by k_j_88 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:41 pm

Fun fact: Crowder was 2-12 last night.


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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:54 pm

Maybe Crowder now realizes what he did, feels bad and shouldn't be scapegoated as a dirty player. Things happen in the heat of battle. It looked very peculiar to me. Jae turned around and backed into him. It seemed worse than the typical borderline dirty play.

I do not miss him and I do not miss IT, KO, Bradley, Jonas, Amir, young or any other player that is gone from this team.

I sort of miss Sully if he's in shape. I want one more big for insurance. Yabusele won't be playoff ready this year. Morris needs to prove his health.
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:56 pm

When was Sully ever in shape?
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Phil Pressey on Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:55 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:When was Sully ever in shape?

I know it's China, but he is putting up Wilt Chamberlain numbers. He must have an eating disorder. If he is healthy and within ten pounds of normal weight, then he could be great insurance, possibly fill the PJ Brown late season/playoff boost role.

I can't find any China highlights. It'd be interesting to see what kind of shape he's in. He was always a natural.
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:41 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:When was Sully ever in shape?

Round is a shape
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by Shamrock1000 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:43 am

mrkleen09 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:When was Sully ever in shape?

Round is a shape

+1

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by wideclyde on Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:59 am

I have been thinking about Crowder all season as he was one of my very favorite Cs players for the last couple of seasons. My concerns with Jae Crowder are not with anything that happened during Hayward's injury, but rather why he is now a considerably less effective basketball player than he was when in Boston.

He appears to be another guy who was not a factor on his team when in Dallas, got appreciably better under Stevens in Boston and now has slipped now that he is not still in Boston.

I guess that there have not yet been enough guys who have mimicked Crowder's path (but there are a few since Stevens arrived in Boston) to let anyone think that the Boston staff is just a little bit more than special, but it could be trending.

Such a trend should help get more and more guys wanting to join the Cs if the rest of the league is paying attention.

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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by NYCelt on Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:10 am

Shamrock1000 wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:When was Sully ever in shape?

Round is a shape

+1

Laughing
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Re: Jae Crowder is Delusional

Post by k_j_88 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:01 pm

Perhaps Tyronne Lue is not so apt to bring the best out of his guys like Stevens does. Crowder has been pretty pedestrian in Cleveland.



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