Monroe......

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Re: Monroe......

Post by 112288 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:48 pm

MONROE'S DEFENSE STAT'S ALSO ARE AFFECTED BY THE PLAYERS THAT SURROUND HIM ON THE COURT AND THE DEFENSIVE STRATEGY SET BY THE COACH.

SO I DO NOT RELY ON STAT'S TO BASE MY SOLE OPINION ON A PLAYER.

MONROE SHOULD EXCEL UNDER BRAD'S SYSTEM.

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Re: Monroe......

Post by Sandpd on Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:06 pm

112288 wrote:MONROE'S DEFENSE STAT'S ALSO ARE AFFECTED BY THE PLAYERS THAT SURROUND HIM ON THE COURT AND THE DEFENSIVE STRATEGY SET BY THE COACH.  

SO I DO NOT RELY ON STAT'S TO BASE MY SOLE OPINION ON A PLAYER.  

MONROE SHOULD EXCEL UNDER BRAD'S SYSTEM.

112288

I concur.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by dboss on Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:26 pm

wideclyde wrote:If Monroe brings us quality scoring and rebounding his defense will be good enough.

Every player that has come in contact with Coach Stevens has developed into a better player, and I think that Stevens will bring out the best in Monroe on the defensive end of the floor if only by using him in ways that accentuate his strengths and preventing his weaknesses from being so exposed.

Another note that may help Monroe to play the best defense of his career is that he now has about 4-5 months to help himself achieve a much better contract going into next season.  Improving his defensive game while playing on a first place team can only help him this summer ($).

Either way, he is ours now!  Moving towards #18

wideclyde

I think you have clearly identified the reason why Monroe will fit right in. Stevens has an offensive/defensive system in place that is designed to maximize the strength of players and minimize their weaknesses. Concerns about Monroe's defense should now be viewed within the realm of playing in a team oriented defensive environment.

The Celtics have not had a legitimate low post scorer/rebounder since Al Jefferson. The addition of a post offensive player finally completes the diversity of the Celtics offense. And as you pointed out we should expect him to play for his next contract.

The Celtics won because Danny kept his powder dry until the right player became available to use the DPE. I think there was a consensus on the board that he would go in this direction instead of using the DPE in a trade. The Celtics won because Boston is now a preferred destination for players that want a chance to participate in the playoffs. The Celtics also won because they are a most unselfish group of players with a superstar coach.

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Re: Monroe......

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:27 pm

I agree with 112288

After seeing the video posted on the other thread, Monroe reminds me a little of Bob Lanier and Bill Cartwright, similar post up games, and he’s probably more athletic than either. Cartwright was considered a poor defender as a Knick and at the end of his tenure, they even tried a twin towers alignment with Patrick Ewing that just didn’t work, just like the Monroe- Drummond pairing didn’t work. Well guess what? Cartwright got traded to the Bulls and playing with Jordan, Pippen and Grant, was suddenly a very good anchor defensively letting the other talented Bulls defenders do all the chasing and swarming as he mainly stayed in the paint. I think Monroe is gonna contribute and look great playing with all our talent.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by sinus007 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:01 pm

Hi,
So, to summarize all the posts about GM's defense - he sucks in that department but after being in Celtics environment he'll get much better and the remaining flaws will be masked by the existing top notch team defense. Please correct me if wrong.
As for the Celtics being a contender, I'll throw my hat in and say that they're not, yet. Next year - most probably, with healthy Hayward and the rest of the current team. Because my definition of contender (for this and the next 2-3 years) is a team that has fair chance to beat GSW in 7-games series.

AK
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Re: Monroe......

Post by Sandpd on Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:04 pm

"The Celtics have not had a legitimate low post scorer/rebounder since Al Jefferson."

dboss,

You've echoed my sentiments from another prior post. Big Al was a scoring machine for the C's down low. He was strictly an inside threat as he had relatively no outside shot. In fact, I don't even think he attempted a 3 pt. shot for several seasons.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by swish on Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:24 pm

Because of the lack of defensive stats,when compared to offensive stats, there is a greater reliance on opinion when comparing players based on their defensive capabilities.
Below is a defensive stat that is not available, to my knowledge, on Basketball reference.com involving Smart and Rozier. Below stats taken from NBA ADVANCED STATS.

The players that Smart and Rozier faced shot the following shooting percentages when facing the league
3 pointers
Smart,,, 36.5 vs the League
Rozier,,, 37.2 vs the League
vs Smart,,, 30.7
vs Rozier,,, 34.8

2 pointers
Smart,,, 50.6 vs the league
Rozier,,, 49.6 vs the league
vs Smart,,, 50. 7
vs Rozier,,, 44.4

Edge to Smart vs the 3 pointer
Edge to Rozier vs the 2 pointer

Next : Monroe vs Baynes

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Re: Monroe......

Post by sinus007 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Swish,
I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.
TR plays 23 MPG, MS plays 30. Also, MS often goes against starters, TR goes mostly against bench.

AK
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Re: Monroe......

Post by dboss on Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:54 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
So, to summarize all the posts about GM's defense - he sucks in that department but after being in Celtics environment he'll get much better and the remaining flaws will be masked by the existing top notch team defense. Please correct me if wrong.
As for the Celtics being a contender, I'll throw my hat in and say that they're not, yet. Next year - most probably, with healthy Hayward and the rest of the current team. Because my definition of contender (for this and the next 2-3 years) is a team that has fair chance to beat GSW in 7-games series.

AK

Sinus

I have to concur with your summation.

I'm putting a lot of stock in the defensive system that is already in place. GM is no defensive stopper but should greatly benefit from being surrounded by a team of defenders. I state this in consideration that he should also help on the defensive glass which is a defensive statistic.

With respect to being able to beat the Warriors, I think they need another piece (Like Hayward for example or trade for a shooter) or the recent offensive production by Rozier is the real deal and not an anomaly. The Celtics match up really good with the Warriors but Boston needs more offense. Monroe brings some low post offense to the table and one more piece should open the door for a finals appearance.

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Re: Monroe......

Post by swish on Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:34 pm

sinus007 wrote:Swish,
I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.
TR plays 23 MPG, MS plays 30. Also, MS often goes against starters, TR goes mostly against bench.

AK

There sure is a difference between stats compiled against a bench player vs a starter - but consider the fact that Rozier is nearly tied with Morris for number 6th in minutes per game on the Celtics roster - and his numbers become more creditable. League average wise his 23.6 minutes per game ranks him about mid way between a 5th and 6th ranked player in terms of minutes played.

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Re: Monroe......

Post by swish on Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Here's a look at how Monroe and Baynes are faring in terms of the field gold percentages that they are holding their opposition centers to so far this year.


His opponent at all distances,,,vs the league-- 48.3%,,,vs Monroe,,,58.3 %
His opponent vs 2 point shots-- 52.3%
vs Monroe,,, vs 2 point shots-- 57.1%
His opponent,,, vs less than 10'-- 56.9%
vs Monroe,,, Vs less than 10'-- 57.1%

His opponent at all distances,,, vs the league-- 47.9,,,vs Baynes,,,44,0
His opponent vs 2 point shots-- 52.0%
vs Baynes,,, vs 2 point shots--47.8%
His opponent,,, vs less than 10'-- 57.0%
vs Baynes,,, vs less than 10'-- 50.3%

I hope that the Celtic help defense will be able to cover up for Monroe's lack of good numbers in respect to holding down opponents shooting percentages.

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Re: Monroe......

Post by Phil Pressey on Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:18 pm

2008 worked because the regular season was a cupcake run. Many games were decided by the fourth quarter and thus the Big Three were able to rest, especially KG.

The Celtics are in a good spot because most of their players are very young and should be more able to recover from the attrition process.

Horford must be protected and nurtured. He must be ready to go on all cylinders at the right time for the Celtics to win it all. Same with Kyrie. They are a Big Two.

Everyone else is the filler and glue.

The roster is now completely stacked. Ojeleye and Larkin are solid for deep bench, but not so much when relied on for regular rotations.

Baynes is probably someone to also pamper for minutes. Morris is obviously someone to keep an eye on for injury status. If the stacked roster is ready to go for playoff time, then this is a legitimate championship run. It would be a 2008 type year in hindsight. We had to wait and see how everyone looked. These are young guys all ready to take leaps. The more stacked the roster, the less pressure there is on everybody including fans. The Celtics are on the cusp of dominating the NBA. It's a matter of when, not if.

It doesn't matter if Monroe is not so great at defense. He is another competent player for Stevens to blend into the mix.

He is probably a rental? Smart might be a rental at this point. I don't mind. One could worry all day, every day about the roster and luxury tax implications. What's going to happen in a few years when Brown and Tatum might be worth Kyrie money?

There are already three max contracts.

I'm glad Ainge is going for the championship this year. For a dynasty, he will need to keep finding Theis, Baynes, Morris, Monroe type contracts. Smart and Rozier are cheap for now.

I respected guys like Humphries and Bass who played dignified on their last Boston runs. We'll see what Danny has for mid-range GM skills. Getting Monroe seems to be a home run. I guess this signifies the end of my covering Sully's China run. Watch him go to the Cavs?

Curry could twist his ankle in the early playoffs and end up as half the player. The Celtics could be relatively healthy at the right time. #18 could end up easier than expected. Maybe it won't. I wouldn't call this fool's gold. It is what it is. Golden State is the only superpower, yet those teams don't always end up winning the title. Next team up if they fail seems to be Boston, especially after signing Monroe.

A lot of us have been asking for another big all year. Danny sealed up the worst hole in the roster.

I bet after he made the deal with Monroe, Danny went into his infiltration proof bunker with pool table and refreshments bar and let out a real evil laugh.

Danny broke the NBA. The Celtics are the second best team and in all likelihood the heir to the next dynasty run. At a minimum, Boston-Golden State could be a nice epic battle for the next few years starting this year.

These guys are turning into one of Brad's Butler teams. If the Celtics can get healthy and with enough time for new guys to fit in with young guys continuing to gain confidence, I am going to up the C's playoff odds to 30%. Give Houston, Cleveland, Toronto, San Antonio mere percentage points as pure puncher's chances and then the rest to Golden State.

The Celtics can be Buster Douglas to Golden State's Mike Tyson. Upsets do happen. The Patriots beat the Rams in 2001. The Warriors are not some video game which is impossible to beat. The Celtics are right on top of them like Rocky on Apollo Creed. I have drunk the kool-aid and am ready to watch this play out.

I think each basketball year should be respected for its own story. I sincerely believe the Boston Celtics are legitimate challengers to win #18 this year. I'm not thinking get out of the East and then take a beat down reality check in the finals similar to last year's demise.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by dboss on Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:35 pm

swish wrote:Here's a look at how Monroe and Baynes are faring in terms of the field gold percentages that they are holding their opposition centers to so far this year.


 His opponent at all distances,,,vs the league-- 48.3%,,,vs Monroe,,,58.3 %
 His opponent vs 2 point shots-- 52.3%
 vs Monroe,,,  vs 2 point shots-- 57.1%
 His opponent,,, vs less than 10'-- 56.9%
 vs Monroe,,, Vs less than 10'-- 57.1%

 His opponent at all distances,,, vs the league-- 47.9,,,vs Baynes,,,44,0
 His opponent vs 2 point shots-- 52.0%
  vs Baynes,,, vs 2 point shots--47.8%
 His opponent,,, vs less than 10'-- 57.0%
   vs Baynes,,, vs less than 10'-- 50.3%

I hope that the Celtic help defense will be able to cover up for Monroe's lack of good numbers in respect to holding down opponents shooting percentages.

  swish

two different players on two different teams. Do you think maybe the quality of surroundings players have an impact?

This is less than a pure statistical comparison. But they are both centers on the Celtics now. Maybe Monroe will play better defense with Boston. Baynes is clearly the getter defender.

dboss

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Re: Monroe......

Post by swish on Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:49 pm

dboss wrote:
swish wrote:Here's a look at how Monroe and Baynes are faring in terms of the field gold percentages that they are holding their opposition centers to so far this year.


 His opponent at all distances,,,vs the league-- 48.3%,,,vs Monroe,,,58.3 %
 His opponent vs 2 point shots-- 52.3%
 vs Monroe,,,  vs 2 point shots-- 57.1%
 His opponent,,, vs less than 10'-- 56.9%
 vs Monroe,,, Vs less than 10'-- 57.1%

 His opponent at all distances,,, vs the league-- 47.9,,,vs Baynes,,,44,0
 His opponent vs 2 point shots-- 52.0%
  vs Baynes,,, vs 2 point shots--47.8%
 His opponent,,, vs less than 10'-- 57.0%
   vs Baynes,,, vs less than 10'-- 50.3%

I hope that the Celtic help defense will be able to cover up for Monroe's lack of good numbers in respect to holding down opponents shooting percentages.

  swish

two different players on two different teams.  Do you think maybe the quality of surroundings players have an impact?

This is less than a pure statistical comparison.  But they are both centers on the Celtics now.  Maybe Monroe will play better defense with Boston.  Baynes is clearly the getter defender.

dboss


dboss,

 " two different players on two different teams. Do you think maybe the quality of surroundings players have an impact?"

 In response to your above Question - That's why I mentioned the hope that the Celtic help defense would compensate for Monroe's deficiency. We shall see.

  swish

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Re: Monroe......

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:01 pm

Oy Vey (I'm not Yiddish)

Monroe will be fine on defense.

It has nothing to do with Celtic defensive schemes, and it has nothing to do with his past defensive play.

Both are vastly over-analyzed.

Monroe's main job will be to add inside scoring. His defense is nowhere near as bad as is being debated, and statistics don't tell the whole story. He'll give the team the opportunity to add badly needed inside presence on the offensive end. Monroe will also add rebounding we need on both ends. Baynes can still contribute 6 fouls on defense.

This is a big upgrade. Everyone have a Coke and a smile.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by k_j_88 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:07 pm

We were told Kyrie couldn't play defense and look how that turned out...



KJ
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Re: Monroe......

Post by NYCelt on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:08 pm

k_j_88 wrote:We were told Kyrie couldn't play defense and look how that turned out...



KJ

Good point KJ.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by swish on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:32 pm

NYCelt wrote:Oy Vey (I'm not Yiddish)

Monroe will be fine on defense.

It has nothing to do with Celtic defensive schemes, and it has nothing to do with his past defensive play.

Both are vastly over-analyzed.

Monroe's main job will be to add inside scoring. His defense is nowhere near as bad as is being debated, and statistics don't tell the whole story. He'll give the team the opportunity to add badly needed inside presence on the offensive end. Monroe will also add rebounding we need on both ends. Baynes can still contribute 6 fouls on defense.

This is a big upgrade. Everyone have a Coke and a smile.

NYCelt

Monroe a plus on offense - I'm with you - I'm questionable about his total defensive contribution - but because your crystal ball has you so optimistic about his defense I just ordered 2 tickets for the finals - one of which is for you. Yippee

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Re: Monroe......

Post by sinus007 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:23 pm

NYCelt wrote:Oy Vey (I'm not Yiddish)

Monroe will be fine on defense.

It has nothing to do with Celtic defensive schemes, and it has nothing to do with his past defensive play.

Both are vastly over-analyzed.

Monroe's main job will be to add inside scoring. His defense is nowhere near as bad as is being debated, and statistics don't tell the whole story. He'll give the team the opportunity to add badly needed inside presence on the offensive end. Monroe will also add rebounding we need on both ends. Baynes can still contribute 6 fouls on defense.

This is a big upgrade. Everyone have a Coke and a smile.

NYCelt,
Since you're "NY" - Yiddish is a language Laughing

AK
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Re: Monroe......

Post by fierce on Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:28 pm

What's more important is Celts won't have to face Monroe in the playoffs.

Preventing Monroe from signing with other playoff teams from the east was a great move by Ainge.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by bobheckler on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:02 pm

sinus007 wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Oy Vey (I'm not Yiddish)

Monroe will be fine on defense.

It has nothing to do with Celtic defensive schemes, and it has nothing to do with his past defensive play.

Both are vastly over-analyzed.

Monroe's main job will be to add inside scoring. His defense is nowhere near as bad as is being debated, and statistics don't tell the whole story. He'll give the team the opportunity to add badly needed inside presence on the offensive end. Monroe will also add rebounding we need on both ends. Baynes can still contribute 6 fouls on defense.

This is a big upgrade. Everyone have a Coke and a smile.

NYCelt,
Since you're "NY" - Yiddish is a language Laughing

AK


Sinus,

Beat me to it. Maazel tov.


bob


.
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Re: Monroe......

Post by KyleCleric on Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:48 am

bobheckler wrote:
sinus007 wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Oy Vey (I'm not Yiddish)

Monroe will be fine on defense.

It has nothing to do with Celtic defensive schemes, and it has nothing to do with his past defensive play.

Both are vastly over-analyzed.

Monroe's main job will be to add inside scoring. His defense is nowhere near as bad as is being debated, and statistics don't tell the whole story. He'll give the team the opportunity to add badly needed inside presence on the offensive end. Monroe will also add rebounding we need on both ends. Baynes can still contribute 6 fouls on defense.

This is a big upgrade. Everyone have a Coke and a smile.

NYCelt,
Since you're "NY" - Yiddish is a language Laughing

AK


Sinus,

Beat me to it.  Maazel tov.


bob


.

what a mensch

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Re: Monroe......

Post by NYCelt on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:21 am

sinus007 wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Oy Vey (I'm not Yiddish)

Monroe will be fine on defense.

It has nothing to do with Celtic defensive schemes, and it has nothing to do with his past defensive play.

Both are vastly over-analyzed.

Monroe's main job will be to add inside scoring. His defense is nowhere near as bad as is being debated, and statistics don't tell the whole story. He'll give the team the opportunity to add badly needed inside presence on the offensive end. Monroe will also add rebounding we need on both ends. Baynes can still contribute 6 fouls on defense.

This is a big upgrade. Everyone have a Coke and a smile.

NYCelt,
Since you're "NY" - Yiddish is a language Laughing

AK

AK,

Well, you're correct, of course. My friend Alan, who is Jewish, does often describe me as Meshuggeneh.

So if I'm a little off sometimes...

Regards
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Re: Monroe......

Post by kdp59 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:37 am

wow.....reading the posts here where many seem to be trying to convince themselves that Monroe will suddenly become a good defender is really funny to me.

he won't

so stop it.

what he WILL be is the best low post scorer on this team and maybe the best rebounder.

frankly, that's why Danny brought him in.

as for Monroe being close to Bill Cartwright or Bob Lanier........man, I gotta get me some of those green googles I guess!!

please.

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Re: Monroe......

Post by bobheckler on Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:46 am

It's Belichick Bowl Day, one day after Greg Monroe cleared waivers, and he still hasn't signed his contract with Boston (or anybody else).

Indication that Danny is trying to keep salary down for a trade? Danny and Mike Zarren are masters at manipulating the timing on signings and trades to squeeze the most out of the salary cap.


bob



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