Smart or Bradley?

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Smart or Bradley?

Post by Sandpd on Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:14 pm

They say that idle thoughts will get you into trouble, but I'll venture to go there anyway . . . .  Without regard to salary, contract, future tenure with the team, or cap implications, and based strictly on on-court performance, effectiveness, and value to the team, which would you rather have going towards the playoffs - Marcus Smart or Avery Bradley?

Smart is a defensive maven, probably 2nd to none in the backcourt. His woeful offensive game is well known and discussed ad nausea on this board. He can't shoot well enough to have confidence in him, particularly when he takes ill-advised low percentage shots. How many times have we said during a game, "No Marcus, no, don't shoot!" He can play pg, some say not very good, nevertheless he can play multiple positions and small forward in certain matchups. His ability to play those multiple positions make him a versatile player to plug in where you need him.

Bradley has evolved into a well balanced 2-way player on offense and defense. He's not a pg, we all remember that failed experiment by the C's a few years ago. He has become a pretty good shooter. His defense is also very good to excellent, but he's only 6'1" where Smart is 6'5" which enables him to play those multiple positions. Bradley is a 2 guard in a pg's body. I've seen him have difficulty with some bigger and stronger 2's who would just overpower him because of his lack of length and heft. By comparison, Smart is built like a powerful linebacker, a pit bull who won't back down.

So who would you rather have? I'd be interested in other posters' preferences and their reasons why. I'm not quite sure who I'd prefer, but right now I'm leaning towards Bradley even though he's not as powerful, but he plays tenacious defense and he can provide the outside shooting that the C's could really use.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:19 pm

Without regard for salary, contract and future tenure? Not sure how you can compare players leaving those aside.

Bradley is a better player today. But would be too expensive and would stunt the growth of Jaylen Brown, so Smart makes more sense IMO.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by Sandpd on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:28 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:Without regard for salary, contract and future tenure?  Not sure how you can compare players leaving those aside.  

Bradley is a better player today.  But would be too expensive and would stunt the growth of Jaylen Brown, so Smart makes more sense IMO.

I'm just looking at a "what if you had a choice between the two players", to go into the playoffs with, notwithstanding the other issues or factors. Who would you rather have on the court for the C's?
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by wideclyde on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:22 am

No question in my mind that Smart is much more valuable going forward to the Celtics than Bradley at this point of this season.

Figuring that either would come off the bench on this year's team...Bradley is a pretty good individual defender, but Smart is almost as good individually and a much better team defender. Bradley would score a few more points (perhaps?) but not enough to off set Smart's defensive leadership and toughness.

I have not seen Bradley play often this season, but in his days in Boston he rarely changed any game with just his defensive play while Smart changes literally every close game with his, and has done this for at least the last two and a half seasons.

In his absence for the last two weeks at least a few games have likely been lost because he has not played. Last night against Indiana could easily be considered one such game, in my opinion as Smart is a true difference maker whether he scores points of shoots well every game he plays.

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:29 am

Shouldn’t we be asking Smart or Rozier?
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by wideclyde on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:44 am

cow,

Yes, we could be asking the same question about Rozier and Smart.

Both have very important roles for the Cs, but I still would pick Smart because Rozier is not yet the team defensive leader/player that Smart is.

Rozier looked great with the first unit when Irving went down, but has since failed to play at that same level once Irving returned. In fact, he may have played a little over his head when he did get the opportunity to start as he had not played at that level previously.

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by swish on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:49 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Shouldn’t we be asking Smart or Rozier?



Great question - and the answer is ?

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:59 am

swish wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Shouldn’t we be asking Smart or Rozier?



   Great question - and the answer is ?

   swish

Come on swish, you know the game, which would you prefer?
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:07 pm

wideclyde wrote:cow,

Yes, we could be asking the same question about Rozier and Smart.  

Both have very important roles for the Cs, but I still would pick Smart because Rozier is not yet the team defensive leader/player that Smart is.

Rozier looked great with the first unit when Irving went down, but has since failed to play at that same level once Irving returned.  In fact, he may have played a little over his head when he did get the opportunity to start as he had not played at that level previously.

Smart has his strengths and warts, he can and has helped us with his hard nosed play, he may already be what he is, is his shooting ever going to get to an even an average level or close? That would be huge if he was even a .420 shooter. Rozier also has his bad shooting games, but I don’t think he’s done improving and is the faster smoother athlete.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by wideclyde on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:18 pm

cow,

Staying with the theme of the thread, I still have to go with Smart over Bradley and then Smart over Rozier in the moment. Long term, we do not know what either will do as shooters.

And, you may be exactly correct in your thinking that Smart may never improve his shooting, but since he is only 24 he may just find a way to shoot better even if he is never going to be compared to anyone who is a really good shooter.

He is never going to be a superstar type player, but he has tremendous value already to his team. Stevens has played him in crunch time every game that there has been a crunch time (and, Smart is available) for over 2 years well knowing that he not likely going to get good shooting from this kid.

His shooting woes are going to cost him a lot of money as a free agent as he has been pretty much labeled as a "specialty" player, but he may not be done improving (to at least some degree) at only 24.

Linking him to Bradley, I think Bradley improved his shooting every year he was in Boston to the level that he became a full two way veteran player.

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by swish on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:21 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
swish wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Shouldn’t we be asking Smart or Rozier?



   Great question - and the answer is ?

   swish

Come on swish, you know the game, which would you prefer?

Smile oldschool - I'm with you - I'll take Rozier.

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:39 pm

I would love if Smart could improve and if he can show big improvement during this playoff run, then more power and hopefully big bucks to him. This year he lost weight, changed his diet and unfortunately his shooting got worse, while somewhat athletic, but not uber athletic, he still is an adventure finishing and consistently blows finishes after a great steal. When I saw him play in college I was very excited and thought we were getting the next Dwayne Wade, but his hops is no where near the young Wade. It’s weird you see him making blocks and it looks like he has strength and great hops, but it doesn’t translate to the offensive side, where he has problems finishing.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by wideclyde on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:51 pm

swish,

I am not sure that I can find anything in Cow's last few posts where he mentions that he prefers Rozier to Smart even though he does question some things about Smart.

Let me ask why you prefer Rozier? And, are you preferring him right now or over time?

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by swish on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:31 pm

wideclyde wrote:swish,

I am not sure that I can find anything in Cow's last few posts where he mentions that he prefers Rozier to Smart even though he does question some things about Smart.

Let me ask why you prefer Rozier?  And, are you preferring him right now or over time?

Just a feeling that I have based on Cow's below statement.


"Smart has his strengths and warts, he can and has helped us with his hard nosed play, he may already be what he is, is his shooting ever going to get to an even an average level or close? That would be huge if he was even a .420 shooter. Rozier also has his bad shooting games, but I don’t think he’s done improving and is the faster smoother athlete.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by bobc33 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:53 pm

A question for those into advanced stats and know where to find them. (Which rules me out)

We all know Smart doesn’t shoot well, but I swear I’ve seen articles that state the Celtics are better offensively when Smart is on the floor.  Can someone shed some light on if this is true?

Also, are there stats that show how Smart shoots in clutch situations?  I never want to see Smart attempt a three, unless it is late in the game when I swear his shooting percentage goes up.

I’m wondering if it truly is possible for a team to be better offensively with a player on the court who shoots so poorly, but perhaps does other things on offense that outweigh the poor shooting.

I made an attempt to research this, but doubt I was looking in the right places.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by Phil Pressey on Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:20 pm

Cowens nailed it. In posts he made on other threads, it is clear he is worried about Smart and hopeful for Rozier.

Stats are overrated? Olynyk seemed to always have a great plus-minus. Yet if he was so great, I'm sure Danny would have found a way to keep him.

Bradley would clearly be a much better option than Rozier or Smart for Brown's backup. But Avery is in the prime of his career. Bradley and Brown became redundant.

Every time a contract is running out, it seems highly likely that player is gone. I will root for Smart. If he does well, then I'll bet he is resigned, luxury tax or not. Maybe he is then traded. If he is the same Marcus Smart seen this regular season, then he walks a la Sully, imho. It could go either way. Marcus Smart is on the clock. Jaylen Brown has poked at Danny for his propensity to shake and bake the roster.

The new NBA took away long contracts. Here today, gone tomorrow can become agonizing. However, one can just appreciate each season for its own unfolding. I'm psyched the Celtics are contending for the title with or without Gordon Hayward. I see no holes in the rotation. Smart could shoot badly and the C's are still in it. I'll take the second seed. Toronto is our daddy. But then sometimes Daddy loses.

The Celtics have nothing to prove. They have arrived. One would have to fast forward five years or so to understand what transpired. The rebuild worked. The Nets collapsed. Smart will get back soon. I don't think there is a problem. It is what it is.

Smart stays for now because he already knows the system and maybe Brad asked Danny to not go too nuts. For example, Tyreke Evans would have been much better on paper than Marcus, but it's sort of late in the season to shake things up too much. For that reason I expect Cleveland to go nowhere. This is why Danny shouldn't have traded Perk for Jeff Green. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or I mean, don't fix something if it's only going to break something else. Or don't kill a mosquito with a bazooka. The team needed a backup for Pierce. It didn't have to be Jeff Green. Marcus Smart doesn't need to learn anything or have some fitting in curve. He just has to put personal problems behind him and get back on track with his trajectory from last year. He shot 81% from the line. His assists to t.o.'s still looked promising. I cannot accept his lousy shooting if it includes turnovers with few assists. He has clearly regressed. But there is still time.

Larkin picked a bad time to get hurt. He has some untapped natural ball distribution skills. His shooting looks decent.

Smart remains a playoff wild card. His trajectory went backwards, but he will sort of get a fresh start to again prove his value. He is not a big nor redundant. His only real competition for minutes is Rozier, but you still need four guards. The team needs him back as soon as possible in the quest for #18 this year 2017-18.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by wideclyde on Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:35 pm

Phil,

I like most of your thoughts, but disagree that the Cs have nothing left to prove because I think that they need to 1. show themselves that they can go wire to wire as a strong team, and 2. need to show themselves and everyone else that they can play deep into the playoffs with this team. Both objectives will be difficult, but if achieved championship #18 could arrive in late June.

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by Phil Pressey on Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:07 pm

wideclyde wrote:Phil,

I like most of your thoughts, but disagree that the Cs have nothing left to prove because I think that they need to 1. show themselves that they can go wire to wire as a strong team, and 2. need to show themselves and everyone else that they can play deep into the playoffs with this team.  Both objectives will be difficult, but if achieved championship #18 could arrive in late June.

The Celtics have a big lead for the fourth best NBA record. Sure, they could end up like the Clippers or Rockets and never do any playoff damage.

The C's got to the ECF last year. Granted only four players returned, but they are all part of the core.

I guess the question is if the roster is good enough to win it all. The offense needs to prove itself.

I think the starters have been elite most of the year. The bench has always been the question mark.

Others say give it a year or two for Brown and Tatum to grow into stars. The Celtics must deserve at least 10% odds for the title, imho. Yes, they need to tighten up the presentation, but they are in the hunt. That's all I'm demanding. I want the puncher's chance at a minimum. I concede this season is bordering on Cinderella Kids or good job, good effort. It's early playoff basketball during the regular season.
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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by swish on Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:52 pm

wideclyde wrote:swish,

I am not sure that I can find anything in Cow's last few posts where he mentions that he prefers Rozier to Smart even though he does question some things about Smart.

Let me ask why you prefer Rozier?  And, are you preferring him right now or over time?

wideclyde

Fair question clyde.

Taking Rozier over Smart for both the present and future.
I consider Rozier a better fit for the Celts offensively - and defensively I think that Roziers defense more than compensates for Smarts deficiencies on offense

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Re: Smart or Bradley?

Post by Phil Pressey on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:40 pm

I agree with Swish, as is. Rozier is a bit nifty for defense. I love when he flies out of nowhere to tip the pass forward for a steal and bucket the other way.

Danny has to figure out whether paying or losing Smart is a must decision either way. Then the following year he will have to decide the same for Rozier. I tend to agree with people saying he's probably resigned and the C's will go into the tax to do so. It depends on his play.

Smart will have to be very bad or very good for an easy prediction. If he is in the middle and tough to evaluate, then it is a huge question mark for next season.
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