NBA 2018 Draft

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by NYCelt on Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:17 pm

kdp,

I get your point, and I think you're correct.

In its simplest form it boils down to this; when you have an over-abundance in one spot, and a shortage in another, you swap out the surplus to fill the gap.

I've said it before, maybe in this thread... I don't want to part with any of our promising young players. Not realistic, nor my choice as a fan.

Reality dictates we have almost no long-term front-court. Overall, we're close to title contention, but bigs are the missing piece. What can we use to get bigs by draft or trade? Surplus higher value players. I would argue that 3 deep creates a surplus, so we have that in two places. 1. PG/combo guards; Irving, Smart and Rozier. 2. SG/SF/wing; Hayward, Tatum and Brown. Picks of value? 2019 - our 1st rounder, up to 3 potential additional. One of those 3 a virtual certainty. 2020 - Our own 1st rounder and perhaps two more.

So it's a pick 'em situation, but common sense and D Ainge's history suggest Boston has the leverage needed to go get some bigs. If it's got to start with a high(er) draft pick, or a young(er) veteran, it looks like a guard, a wing and a 2019 first rounder may supply the needed capital to acquire that young(er) vet or high(er) pick.

Anyone can fill in the names, but I'd make a serious wager bodies are moving. Valuable ones. And value will come back in needed positions. AND the team moves closer to being a long-term competitive unit with championship potential.

I don't know about the exact names, but, kdp, I think you present a convincing and compelling argument here.

Well done.

Regards
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Speculation about trades is always a fan favorite on forums like this Celtic board - but in the long run I'm content to rely on Brad and Danny to utilize their vast knowledge of the game to dictate any future moves. Should they choose to make changes - there could be some very interesting off court days ahead.

   swish


Last edited by swish on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by kdp59 on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:27 pm

swish wrote:Speculation about trades is always a fan favorite on forums like this Celtic board - but in the long run I'm content to rely on Brad and Danny to utilize their vast knowledge of the game to dictate any future moves - should they choose to make changes.  Could be some very interesting off court days ahead.

   swish


I agree 100%, I do enjoy the thought process when it comes to trades/FA moves. But in the end I am only making possible"what ifs" and they should never be thought of as any thing more than conversations starters.....or enders as the case may be.



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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by dboss on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:45 pm

dboss wrote:Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.

+1
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by kdp59 on Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:15 am

dboss wrote:Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.

you misread what I wrote. Originally I wrote that I would do a trade of Rozier (due to a story in another thread about how Danny MAY trade him this off-season), our first this year and ONE of Memphis or the Kings pick in 2019......to move up into the top 5 of this years draft (assuming Danny feels there is a stud big man there ( I like Bamba and Jackson as targets n that draft range).

so:

Rozier
our 2018 first
a 2019 first

for top five pick.

that is was what I originally proposed. Some said no one would take that deal and either Tatum or Brown would need to be included.

so as an example I said something like

Brown with our 2018 first and either Memphis or the CLIPPERS pick for

#4 and Simmons

I never said BOTH Brown and Rozier in any scenario I proposed.

now I get that most here think it would be sacrilege to trade either Brown or Tatum and I get that. But some of us understand that this team has ZERO cap room to acquire a top level big. I feel we need one if we want to compete for a title in the next few years. IF that is true, then the only way to get that player is through trade or the draft.

Either way getting one next year will require someone being moved. in a trade for an existing player (like A. Davis) or in a trade to move up in this draft to pick a big man.

My scenario's are just that, ideas...some maybe better than others. NO one needs to worry that I am in Dannys ear.....LOL.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:03 am

KDP, because of upcoming cap room limitations it makes sense to trade Rozier for value now.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by gyso on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:05 am

NBA trade rules say that $$$ in has to equal $$$ out (plus or minus), as I am sure many here already know.  So trading Rozier (or Brown or Tatum, etc. - anyone on a rookie contract) for an established player is pretty much out.

Trading Rozier (or Brown or Tatum, etc. - anyone on a rookie contract) with draft picks to move up in this draft would mean that we would be trading known entities for unproven talent.  Many college studs become NBA duds.  I personally do not want to do that.

It has been discussed here many times that a team does not need a studly big to win a championship.  GSW, the Heat (Bosh?) and the Cav's didn't have one.  That's recent history.  Any team that had a studly big either did not make the playoffs or did poorly once there.

In the playoffs, the game slows down, so a team really needs someone to anchor the defense and maybe someone to score.  Perhaps all we need going forward is to keep Baynes for the first and Monroe for the latter.  Maybe they both will re-sign into the exceptions that we have at our disposal.

As a team, we are heading into the luxury tax soon, either next season or the season after.  Our options will be limited.  I am glad that Danny Ainge is making the decisions, lately he has done very well for us.

gyso

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by sinus007 on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:39 am

Hi,
Frankly, I don't get all those "let's trade x for y" calls. Especially, if it's JB (who was #3) for #4 of this year. I'm sorry, but it sounds ridiculous.
My understanding is that Danny spent 4 years constructing a contending team. It looks like he's almost there: just a few minor tweaks left. The core of the team is here. And, as this season showed, it can compete with the best.
As for money, I'm sure that Wyk and Co. won't be counting pennies when they see rings within their reach.

AK
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:58 am

Gyso, I very much like the idea of keeping Baynes. Sinus, Danny is the one counting pennies, which is one reason why I doubt he'll cut someone now to make room for Jabari Bird on the playoff roster. Danny must be calculating that Bird would not get us #18 this year, and if we sign him now then he loses 1 year off the 4 Danny gets to keep him at a low cost. Danny will probably sign him to the active roster next year, and he'll have 4 productive inexpensive years for us, freeing up cap space for others, like Baynes. I'm already a big fan of this other Bird make a contribution for the Celts.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by dboss on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:32 pm

kdp59 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.

you misread what I wrote. Originally I wrote that I would do a trade of Rozier (due to a story in another thread about how Danny MAY trade him this off-season), our first this year and ONE of Memphis or the Kings pick in 2019......to move up into the top 5 of this years draft (assuming Danny feels there is a stud big man there ( I like Bamba and Jackson as targets n that draft range).

so:

Rozier
our 2018 first
a 2019 first

for top five pick.

that is was what I originally proposed. Some said no one would take that deal and either Tatum or Brown would need to be included.

so as an example I said something like

Brown with our 2018 first and either Memphis or the CLIPPERS pick for

#4 and Simmons

I never said BOTH  Brown and Rozier in any scenario I proposed.

now I get that most here think it would be sacrilege to trade either Brown or Tatum and I get that. But some of us understand that this team has ZERO cap room to acquire a top level big. I feel we need one if we want to compete for a title in the next few years. IF that is true, then the only way to get that player is through trade or the draft.

Either way getting one next year will require someone being moved. in a trade for an existing player (like A. Davis) or in a trade to move up in this draft to pick a big man.

My scenario's are just that, ideas...some maybe better than others. NO one needs to worry that I am in Dannys ear.....LOL.

kdp59

I get it.  For some unknown reason everyone is overly concerned about Terry Rozier even though he is under contract for 2 more years and the Celtics can match any offer.  Simply moving into the top 5 does not get it.  Unless there is a specific player that you know you can get that move would be a crap shoot.  The only player in the top 5 that looks like a can't miss player is Ayton. Bagley may be an option as well but I am less impressed with the top half of the draft than I was at the beginning of the season.

I think moving moving Terry would be a big mistake because we would need to get another BU PG that could also be a starter if needed.  Tatum and Brown should be pretty much untouchable unless an Anthony Davis is in the mix.

The Celtics have done a great job through the draft, free agency and through trades.  The Sacto pick next year could be another Golden egg.  The Memphis pick is unprotected in two year.  Boston has a chance to hit the lotto again maybe twice and continue to add talent to the mix.  The Celtics do not need a dominant center.  They just need a solid center and will find that at 27.


Last edited by dboss on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:05 pm

Dboss, except for resigning Terry and his salary cap implications at the end of next season, I concur with your assessment about the draft. As far as Ayton goes, McCoy pretty much embarrassed him when they went head to head, and he is not even slated to go in the first round via draft express:

http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Mock-Draft

More views on McCoy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/deandre-ayton-vs-brandon-mccoy

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/01/brandon-mccoy.html

One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by gyso on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:26 pm

worcester wrote:
One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.

True. Best post of the day.

gyso

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:39 pm

gyso wrote:
worcester wrote:
One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.

True.  Best post of the day.

gyso

Pretty much my thoughts in an earlier post.

swish wrote:
"Speculation about trades is always a fan favorite on forums like this Celtic board - but in the long run I'm content to rely on Brad and Danny to utilize their vast knowledge of the game to dictate any future moves - should they choose to make changes. Could be some very interesting off court days ahead"

swish

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Swish, I think you and I are the oldest members on the board and thus share a similar perspective on drafts, trades, Brad, and Danny. Sure Wish Sam were still around with his wisdom and insight.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by kdp59 on Thu May 10, 2018 8:33 am

gyso wrote:
worcester wrote:
One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.

True.  Best post of the day.

gyso

not always...remember Fab Melo.......LOL


some big man options if Danny stands pat on draft day

Jontay Porter
Mortiz Wagner

Both fit today's NBA bug man who can shoot from outside.

Omari Spellman seems to be getting some lift now and might be an interesting pick.

Brandon McCoy as an old school big ( though speaking of Fab Melo....ummmm)

Jo Lual-Acuil Jr. as a long shot blocking project.

I am only talking big right now, because I think Monroe will not be back unless something changes the rest of the playoffs and we have are covered with wings and guards for next year.

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by fierce on Thu May 10, 2018 9:00 am

I know it's very likely the Celts will end up with the Sacto pick next year.
But there's still hope the Celts get the Lakers pick next week.

Totally unreal if the Celts end up picking #2 or #3 this year.
Very Happy
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by steve3344 on Thu May 10, 2018 9:06 am

fierce wrote:I know it's very likely the Celts will end up with the Sacto pick next year.
But there's still hope the Celts get the Lakers pick next week.

Totally unreal if the Celts end up picking #2 or #3 this year.
Very Happy

It's about a 2% chance (or less) that via the ping pong balls the Lakers move up from #10 into the top 3 and then don't win the lottery, leaving us with #2 or #3. Remote but possible. The lottery is next Tuesday, May 15th. In five days we'll know.

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by jrleftfoot on Thu May 10, 2018 9:08 am

No offense guys, but I hate every one of those trade propositions. Maybe I`m just riding a wave of euphoria, but trading either Brown or Tatum as part of a deal for a rookie is anathema to me.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by fierce on Thu May 10, 2018 11:14 am

jrleftfoot wrote:No offense guys, but I hate every one of those trade propositions. Maybe I`m just riding a wave of euphoria, but trading either Brown or Tatum as part of a deal for a rookie is anathema to me.

Agree.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Thu May 10, 2018 1:05 pm

Red rolled the dice in 1956 when he traded for Russell - giving up 2 first team college All americans during their college years (Macauley and Hagen) - who both went on to become HOF'ERS. Who knows for sure if Ainge has that same special feeling for any other player that could be available this year.

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu May 10, 2018 1:36 pm

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
dboss wrote:I saw one mock that had Wagner going middle of the second.

Saw another that had him going to Boston.

NYCelt which rotation players would you part with.

dboss,

To create a package and trade up high enough to get Carter?

Smart or Rozier.

I would hate to part with either one, but being realistic, you can't improve without some sacrifice.

I'm guessing to get that high, probably top 6 or 7, it would also take a 2019 first rounder and other throw-ins.

I'm just speculating on cost here, with no specific trading partner in mind.

If we don't move up, I think we need to hope that Metu, McCoy or Wagner, in that order, are around. I think Wagner would be a project and a gamble, but has some good potential and is worth a shot. He could fit in. Metu or McCoy should both be ready to contribute fairly quickly.

Carter, on the other hand, could be a rotation player immediately.

Regards
Ok I could see a move like this but I would not want to see Boston part with either the Kings pick or the Memphis pick.  I would be happy if we gave up our own pick this year and next year or offer up the Clippers pick.

Carter would have to be a projected starter to include either Smart or Rozier.

I'm a little doubtful that those teams with one of the top 5 picks this year would be willing to make a trade for our number 27 pick plus either Smart or Rozier. Here's a peek at how number 1 through 5 picks have fared over the last 18 years.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/xU7uC

  And here's a look at number 27 picks over the last 18 years.

          http://bkref.com/tiny/dc9ZR


     swish

Swish, as always, you have facts and numbers that inform your thinking. Well done. I would only point out that Terry's playoff numbers are in line with the numbers for top 5 picks already. I would also say that it is reasonable that, given a starter's minutes, Terry can maintain  and possibly improve these numbers. Thus, trading Terry plus the #27 for a top 5 seems like paying $1.05 for the chance to win a dollar. I am with you if it is Smart instead of Rozier, though you are probably right that the other team might not bite on that one.

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Thu May 10, 2018 3:04 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
swish wrote:
dboss wrote:
NYCelt wrote:
dboss wrote:I saw one mock that had Wagner going middle of the second.

Saw another that had him going to Boston.

NYCelt which rotation players would you part with.

dboss,

To create a package and trade up high enough to get Carter?

Smart or Rozier.

I would hate to part with either one, but being realistic, you can't improve without some sacrifice.

I'm guessing to get that high, probably top 6 or 7, it would also take a 2019 first rounder and other throw-ins.

I'm just speculating on cost here, with no specific trading partner in mind.

If we don't move up, I think we need to hope that Metu, McCoy or Wagner, in that order, are around. I think Wagner would be a project and a gamble, but has some good potential and is worth a shot. He could fit in. Metu or McCoy should both be ready to contribute fairly quickly.

Carter, on the other hand, could be a rotation player immediately.

Regards
Ok I could see a move like this but I would not want to see Boston part with either the Kings pick or the Memphis pick.  I would be happy if we gave up our own pick this year and next year or offer up the Clippers pick.

Carter would have to be a projected starter to include either Smart or Rozier.

I'm a little doubtful that those teams with one of the top 5 picks this year would be willing to make a trade for our number 27 pick plus either Smart or Rozier. Here's a peek at how number 1 through 5 picks have fared over the last 18 years.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/xU7uC

  And here's a look at number 27 picks over the last 18 years.

          http://bkref.com/tiny/dc9ZR


     swish

Swish, as always, you have facts and numbers that inform your thinking. Well done. I would only point out that Terry's playoff numbers are in line with the numbers for top 5 picks already. I would also say that it is reasonable that, given a starter's minutes, Terry can maintain  and possibly improve these numbers. Thus, trading Terry plus the #27 for a top 5 seems like paying $1.05 for the chance to win a dollar. I am with you if it is Smart instead of Rozier, though you are probably right that the other team might not bite on that one.

Shamrock

Rozier is on a path of excellence that could create a big time dilemma for the Celtics - if not this year then certainly next year when he's up for a new contract. The only issue right now is whether or not this recent short term effort will translate to long term expectancy by the brass on the other teams terms. If convinced that his recent effort is the real deal I could see that trade being made - but then I'm not very good at predicting future success for young players with a limited successful background. This I will predict. Should his recent high level of play continue - financial issues in the future are going to be a major concern when it comes time to match offers from other teams.

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by jrleftfoot on Thu May 10, 2018 4:08 pm

swish wrote:Red rolled the dice in 1956 when he traded for Russell - giving up 2 first team college All americans during their college years (Macauley and Hagen) - who both went on to become HOF'ERS.  Who knows for sure if Ainge  has that same special feeling for any other player that could be available this year.

  swish
I hear you, but I don`t see the next Bill Russell in the upcoming draft. I`m no expert , though.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Thu May 10, 2018 5:02 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:
swish wrote:Red rolled the dice in 1956 when he traded for Russell - giving up 2 first team college All americans during their college years (Macauley and Hagen) - who both went on to become HOF'ERS.  Who knows for sure if Ainge  has that same special feeling for any other player that could be available this year.

  swish
I hear you, but I don`t see the next Bill Russell in the upcoming draft. I`m no expert , though.

JR,,, With the benefit of hindsight it was a great deal for Red -
History shows that Auerbach got it right when he made the deal for Russell - but at the time not all pro coaches were convinced that Russell would be as successful in the PROS as he had been in college. There was considerable risk involved for the Celtics. See below draft day story.

" In reality, the reasons for Rochester’s infamous decision to pass on the Hall of Fame center were more varied, and (if it’s even possible), more interesting to modern NBA fans. As a United Press Association story from draft day in 1956 noted:

It was said three factors caused Rochester to name Green over Russell; 1. Russell’s absence until late December as a member of the U.S. Olympic team; 2. The fact that the Harlem Globetrotters should bid high for his services; 3. Doubt among some pro coaches that Russell will star in the pro game as he did in college."

I also was against the deal - one of my first basketball lessons as an amateur General Manager - don't bet against the pro's

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