NBA 2018 Draft

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by NYCelt on Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:17 pm

kdp,

I get your point, and I think you're correct.

In its simplest form it boils down to this; when you have an over-abundance in one spot, and a shortage in another, you swap out the surplus to fill the gap.

I've said it before, maybe in this thread... I don't want to part with any of our promising young players. Not realistic, nor my choice as a fan.

Reality dictates we have almost no long-term front-court. Overall, we're close to title contention, but bigs are the missing piece. What can we use to get bigs by draft or trade? Surplus higher value players. I would argue that 3 deep creates a surplus, so we have that in two places. 1. PG/combo guards; Irving, Smart and Rozier. 2. SG/SF/wing; Hayward, Tatum and Brown. Picks of value? 2019 - our 1st rounder, up to 3 potential additional. One of those 3 a virtual certainty. 2020 - Our own 1st rounder and perhaps two more.

So it's a pick 'em situation, but common sense and D Ainge's history suggest Boston has the leverage needed to go get some bigs. If it's got to start with a high(er) draft pick, or a young(er) veteran, it looks like a guard, a wing and a 2019 first rounder may supply the needed capital to acquire that young(er) vet or high(er) pick.

Anyone can fill in the names, but I'd make a serious wager bodies are moving. Valuable ones. And value will come back in needed positions. AND the team moves closer to being a long-term competitive unit with championship potential.

I don't know about the exact names, but, kdp, I think you present a convincing and compelling argument here.

Well done.

Regards
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Speculation about trades is always a fan favorite on forums like this Celtic board - but in the long run I'm content to rely on Brad and Danny to utilize their vast knowledge of the game to dictate any future moves. Should they choose to make changes - there could be some very interesting off court days ahead.

   swish


Last edited by swish on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by kdp59 on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:27 pm

swish wrote:Speculation about trades is always a fan favorite on forums like this Celtic board - but in the long run I'm content to rely on Brad and Danny to utilize their vast knowledge of the game to dictate any future moves - should they choose to make changes.  Could be some very interesting off court days ahead.

   swish


I agree 100%, I do enjoy the thought process when it comes to trades/FA moves. But in the end I am only making possible"what ifs" and they should never be thought of as any thing more than conversations starters.....or enders as the case may be.



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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by dboss on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by cowens/oldschool on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:45 pm

dboss wrote:Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.

+1
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by kdp59 on Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:15 am

dboss wrote:Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.

you misread what I wrote. Originally I wrote that I would do a trade of Rozier (due to a story in another thread about how Danny MAY trade him this off-season), our first this year and ONE of Memphis or the Kings pick in 2019......to move up into the top 5 of this years draft (assuming Danny feels there is a stud big man there ( I like Bamba and Jackson as targets n that draft range).

so:

Rozier
our 2018 first
a 2019 first

for top five pick.

that is was what I originally proposed. Some said no one would take that deal and either Tatum or Brown would need to be included.

so as an example I said something like

Brown with our 2018 first and either Memphis or the CLIPPERS pick for

#4 and Simmons

I never said BOTH Brown and Rozier in any scenario I proposed.

now I get that most here think it would be sacrilege to trade either Brown or Tatum and I get that. But some of us understand that this team has ZERO cap room to acquire a top level big. I feel we need one if we want to compete for a title in the next few years. IF that is true, then the only way to get that player is through trade or the draft.

Either way getting one next year will require someone being moved. in a trade for an existing player (like A. Davis) or in a trade to move up in this draft to pick a big man.

My scenario's are just that, ideas...some maybe better than others. NO one needs to worry that I am in Dannys ear.....LOL.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:03 am

KDP, because of upcoming cap room limitations it makes sense to trade Rozier for value now.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by gyso on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:05 am

NBA trade rules say that $$$ in has to equal $$$ out (plus or minus), as I am sure many here already know.  So trading Rozier (or Brown or Tatum, etc. - anyone on a rookie contract) for an established player is pretty much out.

Trading Rozier (or Brown or Tatum, etc. - anyone on a rookie contract) with draft picks to move up in this draft would mean that we would be trading known entities for unproven talent.  Many college studs become NBA duds.  I personally do not want to do that.

It has been discussed here many times that a team does not need a studly big to win a championship.  GSW, the Heat (Bosh?) and the Cav's didn't have one.  That's recent history.  Any team that had a studly big either did not make the playoffs or did poorly once there.

In the playoffs, the game slows down, so a team really needs someone to anchor the defense and maybe someone to score.  Perhaps all we need going forward is to keep Baynes for the first and Monroe for the latter.  Maybe they both will re-sign into the exceptions that we have at our disposal.

As a team, we are heading into the luxury tax soon, either next season or the season after.  Our options will be limited.  I am glad that Danny Ainge is making the decisions, lately he has done very well for us.

gyso

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by sinus007 on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:39 am

Hi,
Frankly, I don't get all those "let's trade x for y" calls. Especially, if it's JB (who was #3) for #4 of this year. I'm sorry, but it sounds ridiculous.
My understanding is that Danny spent 4 years constructing a contending team. It looks like he's almost there: just a few minor tweaks left. The core of the team is here. And, as this season showed, it can compete with the best.
As for money, I'm sure that Wyk and Co. won't be counting pennies when they see rings within their reach.

AK
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:58 am

Gyso, I very much like the idea of keeping Baynes. Sinus, Danny is the one counting pennies, which is one reason why I doubt he'll cut someone now to make room for Jabari Bird on the playoff roster. Danny must be calculating that Bird would not get us #18 this year, and if we sign him now then he loses 1 year off the 4 Danny gets to keep him at a low cost. Danny will probably sign him to the active roster next year, and he'll have 4 productive inexpensive years for us, freeing up cap space for others, like Baynes. I'm already a big fan of this other Bird make a contribution for the Celts.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by dboss on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:32 pm

kdp59 wrote:
dboss wrote:Kdp59

Do you like a good fleecing?

Jaylen and Terry and a potential lottery pick is more valuable than Bamba and Simmons.  Even without the pick they are more valuable.

Bamba is freakishly long but is limited on offense and lacks the energy and toughness on defense.  Plus he is thin as a rail.  Simmons is a 28 year old 6'6" SF with no deep ball.

Jaylen and Terry are flat out studs.

No deal because it is a bad deal.

you misread what I wrote. Originally I wrote that I would do a trade of Rozier (due to a story in another thread about how Danny MAY trade him this off-season), our first this year and ONE of Memphis or the Kings pick in 2019......to move up into the top 5 of this years draft (assuming Danny feels there is a stud big man there ( I like Bamba and Jackson as targets n that draft range).

so:

Rozier
our 2018 first
a 2019 first

for top five pick.

that is was what I originally proposed. Some said no one would take that deal and either Tatum or Brown would need to be included.

so as an example I said something like

Brown with our 2018 first and either Memphis or the CLIPPERS pick for

#4 and Simmons

I never said BOTH  Brown and Rozier in any scenario I proposed.

now I get that most here think it would be sacrilege to trade either Brown or Tatum and I get that. But some of us understand that this team has ZERO cap room to acquire a top level big. I feel we need one if we want to compete for a title in the next few years. IF that is true, then the only way to get that player is through trade or the draft.

Either way getting one next year will require someone being moved. in a trade for an existing player (like A. Davis) or in a trade to move up in this draft to pick a big man.

My scenario's are just that, ideas...some maybe better than others. NO one needs to worry that I am in Dannys ear.....LOL.

kdp59

I get it.  For some unknown reason everyone is overly concerned about Terry Rozier even though he is under contract for 2 more years and the Celtics can match any offer.  Simply moving into the top 5 does not get it.  Unless there is a specific player that you know you can get that move would be a crap shoot.  The only player in the top 5 that looks like a can't miss player is Ayton. Bagley may be an option as well but I am less impressed with the top half of the draft than I was at the beginning of the season.

I think moving moving Terry would be a big mistake because we would need to get another BU PG that could also be a starter if needed.  Tatum and Brown should be pretty much untouchable unless an Anthony Davis is in the mix.

The Celtics have done a great job through the draft, free agency and through trades.  The Sacto pick next year could be another Golden egg.  The Memphis pick is unprotected in two year.  Boston has a chance to hit the lotto again maybe twice and continue to add talent to the mix.  The Celtics do not need a dominant center.  They just need a solid center and will find that at 27.


Last edited by dboss on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:05 pm

Dboss, except for resigning Terry and his salary cap implications at the end of next season, I concur with your assessment about the draft. As far as Ayton goes, McCoy pretty much embarrassed him when they went head to head, and he is not even slated to go in the first round via draft express:

http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Mock-Draft

More views on McCoy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/deandre-ayton-vs-brandon-mccoy

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/01/brandon-mccoy.html

One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by gyso on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:26 pm

worcester wrote:
One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.

True. Best post of the day.

gyso

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by swish on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:39 pm

gyso wrote:
worcester wrote:
One thing is for sure, whatever decisions Danny makes about draft picks and trades, most of us will bitch and complain that he made the wrong choices - and then in three years we'll marvel at his wisdom.

True.  Best post of the day.

gyso

Pretty much my thoughts in an earlier post.

swish wrote:
"Speculation about trades is always a fan favorite on forums like this Celtic board - but in the long run I'm content to rely on Brad and Danny to utilize their vast knowledge of the game to dictate any future moves - should they choose to make changes. Could be some very interesting off court days ahead"

swish

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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

Post by worcester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Swish, I think you and I are the oldest members on the board and thus share a similar perspective on drafts, trades, Brad, and Danny. Sure Wish Sam were still around with his wisdom and insight.
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Re: NBA 2018 Draft

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