Isaiah's hip surgery

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Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by worcester on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:13 pm

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/isaiah-thomas-surgery-hip-lakers-interested-summer-talks/story?id=54073952

What a blunder. He should have had this done 11 months ago. he wasted a year and millions of dollars. Whoever advised him is not a competent doctor, or else IT refused to listen to good advice. I am so glad Danny traded him, considering.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by jrleftfoot on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:04 pm

Perhaps some of the bad advice came from Celtics doctors. He probably shouldn`t have continued playing in the playoffs last season.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by worcester on Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:38 pm

Yes, but thereafter he consulted with several doctors and had ample time to remedy his ailment which was NOT going to get better without surgery.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by wideclyde on Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:13 pm

Thomas may have gotten greedy last season heading into his free agent year.

Tried to put off the surgery, figuring to play well and hoping to get that brinks truck to back up to his house.

The thoughts of big money often make people take big risks that sometimes do and sometimes do not work out well in the end. Put the Brinks truck on hold, he now may have a difficult time getting the veteran's minimum for next season.

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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:41 pm

Poor IT, sad of this turn of events. It’s not fair, but obviously life is not fair.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by NYCelt on Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:09 pm

IT's hip is going to make the Brinks truck pass him by.

He'll still get big dollars somewhere. Not max, but close enough.

I hope he ends up in a good situation, but I also hope it's out west. Don't want him coming back to haunt Boston.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by kdp59 on Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:08 am

Danny would sign him for a year at the mid-level I bet.

always looking for a deal, after all


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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by wideclyde on Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:23 am

kdp,

Do you think that Thomas would fit back in with Boston even for a vet minimum? Could he possibly be happy without his max contract and far less playing time? He would have to be a bench player as Brown and Rozier have both passed him by, Hayward is very likely to return, I certainly hope that Smart may be again in Boston, Irving will start and play 30 minutes, and Larkin plays much better defense for much, much less money.

If 100% healthy, Thomas will still have some skills, but I just do not see him on the Cs roster unless a batch of the guys I mentioned already are no longer in our green and white.

I think that he plays next season at 30 years old which is not too old, but certainly not heading into his prime either. The hip may or may not withstand this operation so he has some additional risks that he did not have when he first came to the Celtics that other GMs will have to look at.

I see Thomas as either staying with the Lakers or signing somewhere else where he can get more minutes and the ball all the time. Probably one of the lottery teams needing some offensive help rather than one of the better teams who will need a much more all around (defense!) performer.

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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by gyso on Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:34 am

wideclyde wrote:kdp,

Do you think that Thomas would fit back in with Boston even for a vet minimum? Could he possibly be happy without his max contract and far less playing time?  He would have to be a bench player as Brown and Rozier have both passed him by, Hayward is very likely to return, I certainly hope that Smart may be again in Boston, Irving will start and play 30 minutes, and Larkin plays much better defense for much, much less money.

If 100% healthy, Thomas will still have some skills, but I just do not see him on the Cs roster unless a batch of the guys I mentioned already are no longer in our green and white.

I think that he plays next season at 30 years old which is not too old, but certainly not heading into his prime either.  The hip may or may not withstand this operation so he has some additional risks that he did not have when he first came to the Celtics that other GMs will have to look at.

I see Thomas as either staying with the Lakers or signing somewhere else where he can get more minutes and the ball all the time.  Probably one of the lottery teams needing some offensive help rather than one of the better teams who will need a much more all around (defense!) performer.

I agree, he would never settle for coming off the bench, here or anywhere else. I believe he will look for more than the vet min. He is worth at least MLE (or a bit more), multiple year contract, but any team signing him will probably have each year after the first one hold a team option for their protection.

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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:07 am

Isaiah is easily a 20-22 million per player, he is much too young and talented to accept a MLE. As NY Celt mentioned, he may not be a max player - but is going to get paid someplace.

This whole ordeal is the perfect counter to the argument about why players choose money over loyalty. IT should have told the Celtics he was done in April last year. Gone in for surgery and said my health is worth more than you playoff run. BUT NO, the guy gave his heart, soul and body to the team and the city and they cast him aside like a used gum wrapper.

I am happy we have Kyrie and knowing sports is a cut throat business, I dont fault Danny for doing what is best for his team. But I refuse to listen to any BS stories about loyalty above the player and his family. Its a dog eat dog world - go for yours.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by jrleftfoot on Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:33 am

worcester wrote:Yes, but thereafter he consulted with several doctors and had ample time to remedy his ailment which was NOT going to get better without surgery.
I never saw a report of any doctor telling him that. Maybe I missed it. The idea being floated , in this thread, that he " got greedy" and his present situation is his own fault is not supported by any evidence publicly reported. This is part of the Celtics never do wrong narrative that we all embrace to some degree.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by wideclyde on Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:51 am

mrkleen,

There is very little question about loyalty not really being a part of professional sports especially now that such big money is so available and players have ways to go and get it. The days before free agency certainly lowered their ability to gain improved compensation for their services, and very few have not taken direct advantage of these opportunities since free agency.

Thomas certainly would have done just like every other guy would have done-taken the best offer he was offered upon hitting free agency, and no one would have blamed him although we may have missed him. However, his constant cry of "back up the brink's truck" got old and sounded very selfish when it really never seemed to be necessary. I am sure that Ainge took into consideration that Thomas was squawking about max salary money, and had very little trouble putting Thomas into a deal that brought back a talent like Irving. It would have interesting to see who else he would have traded Thomas for if Irving had not been available. An employee who feels that he is so grossly underpaid can be a big problem as we all know.

No one seems to know all of the communication that went on last spring and early summer regarding his hip, but I said then and still believe it that it was up to Thomas and his handlers to gather as much info as possible and then make the decision as to getting the hip fixed or not. He/they decided not to have the surgery for whatever reason. Not sure whether the Cs medical staff said anything either way, but in the end
players decide to have or not have surgery.

Regarding his free agency this summer, I will predict that he will only get a one year deal for between maybe $8-12M (which could be a MLE or less) due to his hip surgery and the fact that he will not be able to prove that he can hold up physically.

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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by worcester on Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:58 pm

JR - I am a doctor who, when apprised of the nature of his injury, said he MUST get surgery to remedy it. Most competent doctors seeing that diagnosis would have said the same. I'm sure at least one MD would have said so. Surely he got more than one opinion.

I do think he will be in fine shape 7-8 months from now and no longer hampered. I also agree with Mr. Kleen that Isaiah is a $20-22 million player, and I do believe that he will get that for a 3 year contract. I know in MLB baseball teams can get insurance on players being unable to perform because of injury. We had a pitcher from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (their name back then) as a patient in our clinic who had a $10 million contract. He'd pitched a no hitter before signing with the Rays which led to his big (then - 1995 era) contract. His first year with the Rays he sucked and developed a shoulder problem, which we repaired, readily. Instead of putting him back into the rotation, the Rays preferred to collect the 70% insurance money and wound up keeping him on the IR roster without playing him for 2-3 years, at a three year cost to them of only $9 million versus $30 M. Sports is a business. Teams going nowhere look to cut costs. The NBA may have such injury insurance contracts as well, which is why I think some team will take a gamble on Isaiah. I hope he gets paid. i really like him as a person, but I would have chewed him out as a patient for not taking good medical advice.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by mrkleen09 on Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:57 pm

wideclyde wrote:mrkleen,

There is very little question about loyalty not really being a part of professional sports especially now that such big money is so available and players have ways to go and get it.  The days before free agency certainly lowered their ability to gain improved compensation for their services, and very few have not taken direct advantage of these opportunities since free agency.

Thomas certainly would have done just like every other guy would have done-taken the best offer he was offered upon hitting free agency, and no one would have blamed him although we may have missed him.  However, his constant cry of "back up the brink's truck" got old and sounded very selfish when it really never seemed to be necessary.  I am sure that Ainge took into consideration that Thomas was squawking about max salary money, and had very little trouble putting Thomas into a deal that brought back a talent like Irving.  It would have interesting to see who else he would have traded Thomas for if Irving had not been available. An employee who feels that he is so grossly underpaid can be a big problem as we all know.

No one seems to know all of the communication that went on last spring and early summer regarding his hip, but I said then and still believe it that it was up to Thomas and his handlers to gather as much info as possible and then make the decision as to getting the hip fixed or not.  He/they decided not to have the surgery for whatever reason.  Not sure whether the Cs medical staff said anything either way, but in the end
players decide to have or not have surgery.

Regarding his free agency this summer, I will predict that he will only get a one year deal for between maybe $8-12M (which could be a MLE or less) due to his hip surgery and the fact that he will not be able to prove that he can hold up physically.

The back up the brinks truck comments are likely central to him playing through an injury and other personal issues. If you had a dislocated hip AND your sister died in a car wreck and instead of taking care of either, you were working over time - you might also have a higher personal view of your worth. I don think it helped his case, but he was literally giving his heart and soul to this team. I hope you can empathize with how he felt after all that, getting traded instead of resigned.

I dont agree on IT's value, but you may be right. And if a guy who was a legit MVP candidate can slip to 8 million per, when people like Luol Deng are making 18 million and Chandler Parsons is making 23 million, I hope you could also empathize with the unfairness in the outcome.

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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by dboss on Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:23 pm

Wyde, I agree with you regarding IT's value.

Also Kkeen I am less inclined to look at those really bad contracts for Parsons and Deng as measuring sticks for what Thomas will get.

The whole situation stinks for him.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by kdp59 on Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:40 pm

I didn't say I thought Thomas would sign here, I said that Danny would sign him for the MID-Level exception if he got the chance.

and I do not think Thomas will get anywhere NEAR $20 M next year.

everyone seems to thinks teams are loaded with cap space for one thing and they are NOT.

plus lets be honest IT is not worth anything near that type of money, even IF he was healthy.

he's back to being the player he was before he was playing for Stevens ( think Evan Turner).

I predict IT will sign a one year with a team he thinks he can get plenty of playing time with to parlay next seasons play into a mutli-year deal ( but the brinks truck fantasy will forever be that).
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by dboss on Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:56 pm

kdp59

Agree. There will be no bidding war for Thomas.

Once the top 7 or 8 free agents are gone all thet will be left is the mle, bi-annual and vet minimums.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:02 am

worcester wrote:JR - I am a doctor who, when apprised of the nature of his injury, said he MUST get surgery to remedy it. Most competent doctors seeing that diagnosis would have said the same. I'm sure at least one MD would have said so. Surely he got more than one opinion.

I do think he will be in fine shape 7-8 months from now and no longer hampered. I also agree with Mr. Kleen that Isaiah is a $20-22 million player, and I do believe that he will get that for a 3 year contract. I know in MLB baseball teams can get insurance on players being unable to perform because of injury. We had a pitcher from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (their name back then) as a patient in our clinic who had a $10 million contract. He'd pitched a no hitter before signing with the Rays which led to his big (then - 1995 era) contract. His first year with the Rays he sucked and developed a shoulder problem, which we repaired, readily. Instead of putting him back into the rotation, the Rays preferred to collect the 70% insurance money and wound up keeping him on the IR roster without playing him for 2-3 years, at a three year cost to them of only $9 million versus $30 M. Sports is a business. Teams going nowhere look to cut costs. The NBA may have such injury insurance contracts as well, which is why I think some team will take a gamble on Isaiah. I hope he gets paid. i really like him as a person, but I would have chewed him out as a patient for not taking good medical advice.
I certainly respect your opinion, but  I still think the initial diagnosis and recommendation was the crucial one. Perhaps he wouldn`t have required surgery if he hadn`t kept playing while injured. As a former criminal defense lawyer, I will say  don`t expect a lawyer hired by the cartel to put your interests before theirs. We`ll know what doctors told him when either he or they tell us, which , given HIPA  constraints, will probably be never. I won`t assume what anybody told him. If medical opinions were infallible , or even consistent, Reggie Lewis might still walk among us. I think we all wish him .well, I think. I didn`t mean to imply otherwise.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:19 am

Worcester, I remember it clearly, right from the beginning, you said he would need surgery to repair his hip. Who knows what went on, but, if as some have indicated, it was the blame of the Celtic doctors, believe me there will be a lawsuit at some point in time. Maybe this is one of the reasons we saw a complete change of the training staff, although Dr. Brian McKeon is still the doctor on staff. In fact, he worked on Hayward. But that is neither here or there.

IT finally had the surgery he should have had and maybe one of the reasons you don't hear too much chirping against the Celtics, he was in charge of his own destiny.

The whole situation is sad, as far as Danny ever signing him again, I say it will never happen. Do you honestly think he would want to play second or third fiddle to Kyrie, Hayward?
Never, he was the superstar here and you know the old saying, "you can never go home again". He will get a contract, not a max one, but maybe a one year deal to let him regain his footing and then go for the big bucks, maybe. I feel he will never make the money he dreamed of when he was here. But alot of that money has dried up.

Just a sad story, he was a good kid here
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:53 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
wideclyde wrote:mrkleen,

There is very little question about loyalty not really being a part of professional sports especially now that such big money is so available and players have ways to go and get it.  The days before free agency certainly lowered their ability to gain improved compensation for their services, and very few have not taken direct advantage of these opportunities since free agency.

Thomas certainly would have done just like every other guy would have done-taken the best offer he was offered upon hitting free agency, and no one would have blamed him although we may have missed him.  However, his constant cry of "back up the brink's truck" got old and sounded very selfish when it really never seemed to be necessary.  I am sure that Ainge took into consideration that Thomas was squawking about max salary money, and had very little trouble putting Thomas into a deal that brought back a talent like Irving.  It would have interesting to see who else he would have traded Thomas for if Irving had not been available. An employee who feels that he is so grossly underpaid can be a big problem as we all know.

No one seems to know all of the communication that went on last spring and early summer regarding his hip, but I said then and still believe it that it was up to Thomas and his handlers to gather as much info as possible and then make the decision as to getting the hip fixed or not.  He/they decided not to have the surgery for whatever reason.  Not sure whether the Cs medical staff said anything either way, but in the end
players decide to have or not have surgery.

Regarding his free agency this summer, I will predict that he will only get a one year deal for between maybe $8-12M (which could be a MLE or less) due to his hip surgery and the fact that he will not be able to prove that he can hold up physically.

The back up the brinks truck comments are likely central to him playing through an injury and other personal issues. If you had a dislocated hip AND your sister died in a car wreck and instead of taking care of either, you were working over time - you might also have a higher personal view of your worth.  I don think it helped his case, but he was literally giving his heart and soul to this team.  I hope you can empathize with how he felt after all that, getting traded instead of resigned.

I dont agree on IT's value, but you may be right.  And if a guy who was a legit MVP candidate can slip to 8 million per, when people like Luol Deng are making 18 million and Chandler Parsons is making 23 million,  I hope you could also empathize with the unfairness in the outcome.

This
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by jrleftfoot on Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:43 pm

kdp59 wrote:I didn't say I thought Thomas would sign here, I said that Danny would sign him for the MID-Level exception if he got the chance.

and I do not think Thomas will get anywhere NEAR $20 M next year.

everyone seems to thinks teams are loaded with cap space for one thing and they are NOT.

plus lets be honest IT is not worth anything near that type of money, even IF he was healthy.

he's back to being the player he was before he was playing for Stevens ( think Evan Turner).

I predict IT will sign a one year with a team he thinks he can get plenty of playing time with to parlay next seasons play  into a mutli-year deal ( but the brinks truck fantasy will forever be that).

Evan Turner? Really? I guess Brad Stevens will  perform his next miracle on Sunday .
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by Ktronic1 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:07 pm

wideclyde wrote:mrkleen,

There is very little question about loyalty not really being a part of professional sports especially now that such big money is so available and players have ways to go and get it.  The days before free agency certainly lowered their ability to gain improved compensation for their services, and very few have not taken direct advantage of these opportunities since free agency.

Thomas certainly would have done just like every other guy would have done-taken the best offer he was offered upon hitting free agency, and no one would have blamed him although we may have missed him.  However, his constant cry of "back up the brink's truck" got old and sounded very selfish when it really never seemed to be necessary.  I am sure that Ainge took into consideration that Thomas was squawking about max salary money, and had very little trouble putting Thomas into a deal that brought back a talent like Irving.  It would have interesting to see who else he would have traded Thomas for if Irving had not been available. An employee who feels that he is so grossly underpaid can be a big problem as we all know.

No one seems to know all of the communication that went on last spring and early summer regarding his hip, but I said then and still believe it that it was up to Thomas and his handlers to gather as much info as possible and then make the decision as to getting the hip fixed or not.  He/they decided not to have the surgery for whatever reason.  Not sure whether the Cs medical staff said anything either way, but in the end
players decide to have or not have surgery.

Regarding his free agency this summer, I will predict that he will only get a one year deal for between maybe $8-12M (which could be a MLE or less) due to his hip surgery and the fact that he will not be able to prove that he can hold up physically.
Maybe IT should have shut it down earlier in the playoffs and maybe just maybe be better off today. The dude has heart and wanted to play. I for one admire that.
As far as the “brinks truck” comment goes it was never “constant”. I saw and heard him say it the one time and he wasn’t squawking when he said it. Since then, the entire world has taken the one statement and made it bigger than it was ever meant to be. If he repeated that statement which im not aware of, it was only because the media types kept asking, Commenting and joking about it.
IT has already climbed a mountain.Theres a whole slew of players much bigger in size and more skilled who couldn’t and cannot say the same thing. I truly hope that everything works out for him.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by mrkleen09 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:19 pm

+1
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:49 pm

I was at the game that IT originally got injured in. It was a game against Minnesota Timberwolves and Karl Anthony Townes landed on top of him in an odd way. IT got up limping, played thru and then came out of the game. It bothered him from then on and then he aggravated it during the playoffs. It should have been addressed immediately but, being the gamer that he is, I am sure he tried very hard to fight thru it. It just got worse and worse until they shut him down completely.

There is not one of us who did not love the kid for what he did while he was here in Boston. I, for one, feel awful for him. These are the hazards of putting the game before your health.
No doubt, he should have been operated on immediately, hip injuries are terrible for a ballplayer who relies so much on his legs. Time will tell if he will ever be the same player he was while he was here.
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Re: Isaiah's hip surgery

Post by worcester on Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:35 pm

JR, You are probably correct when you say,

"I still think the initial diagnosis and recommendation was the crucial one. Perhaps he wouldn`t have required surgery if he hadn`t kept playing while injured."

I do wish IT the best and hope he has a great life after basketball.
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