My thoughts on the next series

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My thoughts on the next series

Post by kdp59 on Thu May 10, 2018 12:20 pm

since we have a couple days before we play Cleveland I thoughts I'd try to put my thoughts about this coming battle down.


The Match ups:

Horford/ Love- edge goes to Horford here even though Love played extremely well against the Raptors. Horford is a much better defender than anyone Toronto had playing Love.

LeBron/ Morris and Semi- I think in the end Jaylen will get plenty of time trying to match up against James. Reality is no matter who we put on him, he is playing at an elite level even for the King.

Rozier/ Hill- I think this is a wash overall. Rozier is the better player right now, but Hill is a savvy vet and I think that makes it a wash this series.

Smart/ JR Smith- a wash for me, BUT Smart can get into anyone’s head and guy like Smith might be ripe for it. A chance that Boston can have an edge over in this match up

Tatum/ Green and Hood- We all know Jeff Green, Tatum is the better player overall and as long as the bright lights don’t suddenly cause him to shrink he should win this matchup

Jaylen/ Korer and Clarkson- another match up where the Celtics should have an edge, IF Jaylen is completely healthy that is.

Bayne/ Thompson- Thompson came alive some against Toronto last series and can be a good rebounder and defender inside. IF he is on his game Baynes may have his hands full

Nance and Calderon both can see playing time with Nance being a capable NBA player (though he has seemed to shrink in the playoffs so far).

With Larkin out likely for at least the start of this series and Monroe not really a good match up except perhaps with Thompson at times, we have a short rotation of 8-9 players.

of course in today's NBA individual match ups are less important than in past years, but it still helps me get my thoughts together.

per individual match ups above the Celtics have an edge Horford over Love, Tatum over Green and Hood, Jaylen over Korver and Clarkson. BUT LeBron has a BIG edge over Morris, Semi, Jaylen, Smart and anyone else Brad may try to match up with him over this series. James is so good and playing at such a high level right now that I honestly feel he alone match the player match ups a wash.

Depth is a Achilles heel for us right now, as Cleveland can play as many as 10-11 players and we have at best an 9 man rotation. This will be a problem for us I fear.

finally home court is ours....until it isn't. I full expect LeBron to will the Cav's to win in one the first two games in Boston. which will give them the home court.

our drop in play on the road in the playoffs is documented so far this year (and typical for a young team) as such I see Cleveland taking the series in 6 games

I hope I am VERY WRONG.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu May 10, 2018 12:40 pm

Excellent summary. I think you might give non-Lebron Cavaliers a little too much credit, but it is better to overestimate an opponent than underestimate one.

Any thoughts on the best strategy to deal with Lebron? One idea you hear a lot is to give him space. Every aspect of Lebron's game is good, but the weakest is probably shooting. By giving him space, you take away his driving lanes, where he is pretty much unstoppable. You also get into the passing lanes, where he can also pick you apart. Thus, take away the rest of the Cavs, and force Lebron to beat you with his shooting. The risk is that he totally can beat you that way, especially if he gets hot outside. Hopefully he will be worn down from carrying his teams through the past two series.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by bobheckler on Thu May 10, 2018 12:58 pm

Tom Halzack @TomHalzack
about 20 minutes ago
Not expecting the Celtics to beat the Lebrons. If they do, they should be called The Magnificent Seven.


bob



.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by wideclyde on Thu May 10, 2018 1:01 pm

LeBron James will not allow himself to get worn down. He may be the NBA's version of the Energizer Bunny as he just goes and goes and goes until each game is over tired or not. This guy is just amazing in so many ways.

His team can be beaten, but it will not be easy mostly because of James. He will get the most out of his teammates and will carry them many times against the Cs because he is just that good.

I do agree that doing something defensively to make James have to beat you with jump shots is a better strategy than letting him drive to the hoop on nearly every possession.

By the way, I have been a Cs fan since the late '50s but I have no problem seeing James as possibly the best player ever. He is going to be a huge problem in this next series just as he has been for every opponent for years and years.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by Shamrock1000 on Thu May 10, 2018 1:06 pm

wideclyde wrote:LeBron James will not allow himself to get worn down.  He may be the NBA's version of the Energizer Bunny as he just goes and goes and goes until each game is over tired or not. This guy is just amazing in so many ways.

His team can be beaten, but it will not be easy mostly because of James.  He will get the most out of his teammates and will carry them many times against the Cs because he is just that good.

I do agree that doing something defensively to make James have to beat you with jump shots is a better strategy than letting him drive to the hoop on nearly every possession.

By the way, I have been a Cs fan since the late '50s but I have no problem seeing James as possibly the best player ever.  He is going to be a huge problem in this next series just as he has been for every opponent for years and years.

Lebron is ridiculously good at basketball. Other than "The Decision", he has mostly carried himself with class and dignity, and even the decision was more a result of not understanding his impact on the region than a real character flaw. Other than the fact that he has always played for major Celtics rivals, I don't get why so many disparage Lebron.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by mulcogiseng on Thu May 10, 2018 1:13 pm

I think that your summary makes about as much sense as any other that will paint the Cavs as the winners of this series. It really is all going to depend on how well LeBron plays and if he can assert himself over the Celtics.

A LeBron led team will always be susceptible to losing to the Boston Celtics.

A Boston Celtics team will always go into a series with a game plan and will follow it.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by sinus007 on Thu May 10, 2018 2:07 pm

Hi,
The major difference between these teams is Cavs are Lebron team, Celtics are Celtics team.
I'm sure/hope that Brad will explore this to our advantage.
As for defending Lebron, the "let him shoot jumpers" strategy worked before and, I don't see any reason why it won't work now.
Also, run Korver and Love off 3pt line, get under JR's skin and the rest will fold on their own.

BTW, KDP didn't mention one matchup that may give us advantage: Brad vs Lebron (not Lue for obvious reason)

AK
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by kdp59 on Thu May 10, 2018 2:31 pm

good point I completely missed the coaching issue...even thought Brad Stevens gets no love among   his peers, I have to put our coaching as plus.

to win this series we need to hold the home court. LeBron is playing at such a high level right now, that I fear that will be difficult to win both first games.

I would guess we will see Morris, Semi, Jaylen and maybe even smart taking turns on Lebron. I doubt any of them will slow him down much though.

not allowing them any large leads might require LeBron to keep playing 44-46 minutes each game, which conceivably would slow him down later in the series. But that hasn't worked yet.

LeBron is shooting only 28.8% form 3 in the playoffs, so keeping him outside seems like a good strategy , but hos to do that is always the problem.74.5% form the lline might mean giving a lot of fouls  also.

Hill, Hood and Clarkson are shooting bad from 3, so they should be the guys we let open if we double Lebron and try to force the ball out of his hands

Double/triple Lebron and make the others guys beat you might be the best approach. but that's been tried many times also.


even with our depleted roster, it may be run, run ,ruin and run some more against the Cav's to beat them this year
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by swish on Thu May 10, 2018 3:33 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
wideclyde wrote:LeBron James will not allow himself to get worn down.  He may be the NBA's version of the Energizer Bunny as he just goes and goes and goes until each game is over tired or not. This guy is just amazing in so many ways.

His team can be beaten, but it will not be easy mostly because of James.  He will get the most out of his teammates and will carry them many times against the Cs because he is just that good.

I do agree that doing something defensively to make James have to beat you with jump shots is a better strategy than letting him drive to the hoop on nearly every possession.

By the way, I have been a Cs fan since the late '50s but I have no problem seeing James as possibly the best player ever.  He is going to be a huge problem in this next series just as he has been for every opponent for years and years.

Lebron is ridiculously good at basketball. Other than "The Decision", he has mostly carried himself with class and dignity, and even the decision was more a result of not understanding his impact on the region than a real character flaw. Other than the fact that he has always played for major Celtics rivals, I don't get why so many disparage Lebron.

Shamrock

"Other than the fact that he has always played for major Celtics rivals, I don't get why so many disparage Lebron.[/quote]"

My answer to your above question - is
Extreme partisanship towards one's favorite players or - a common sense lack of basketball knowledge.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by gyso on Thu May 10, 2018 5:58 pm

Swish,

Your answer to Shamrock's question is not up to your usual high standards, in fact it comes up a bit short.

My dislike of LeBron has nothing to do with me occasionally wearing green colored glasses (extreme partisanship).  Also, the other side of that coin suggests that I don't like him because he is our rival (also extreme partisanship).  That is likewise not true.  I respect his skills and think he will go down in history as one of the all time greats.

The only other choice left to me in your answer is kind of insulting, which is that I (or others) lack basketball knowledge.  I'm sure that you really don't think that is true or meant to say that about other folks on this board.

Is it possible that there is a third answer?  Perhaps I do not like him because of his sense of entitlement and maybe because of some of his life choices.  It is just my opinion and I am sure others have their own opinion that sits outside of your two answers to his question.

There have been many players on Boston / New England teams that I have not liked in my 50 years (or so) of being a sports fan.  I do cheer them on because they are on my favorite teams, but I don't necessarily "like" them and later, I am glad that they are gone.

So anyway, no hard feelings, but better luck next time.

Best Regards,

gyso

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by swish on Thu May 10, 2018 6:06 pm

gyso wrote:Swish,

Your answer to Shamrock's question is not up to your usual high standards, in fact it comes up a bit short.

My dislike of LeBron has nothing to do with me occasionally wearing green colored glasses (extreme partisanship).  Also, the other side of that coin suggests that I don't like him because he is our rival (also extreme partisanship).  That is likewise not true.  I respect his skills and think he will go down in history as one of the all time greats.

The only other choice left to me in your answer is kind of insulting, which is that I (or others) lack basketball knowledge.  I'm sure that you really don't think that is true or meant to say that about other folks on this board.

Is it possible that there is a third answer?  Perhaps I do not like him because of his sense of entitlement and maybe because of some of his life choices.  It is just my opinion and I am sure others have their own opinion that sits outside of your two answers to his question.

There have been many players on Boston / New England teams that I have not liked in my 50 years (or so) of being a sports fan.  I do cheer them on because they are on my favorite teams, but I don't necessarily "like" them and later, I am glad that they are gone.

So anyway, no hard feelings, but better luck next time.

Best Regards,

gyso

gyso

There certainly are exceptions but I'll stick with my opinion as a rule of thumb.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by hawksnestbeach on Thu May 10, 2018 10:25 pm

Against Cleveland, I hope to see Semi O. on James as much as he was on Antetokounmpo. Semi is quick enough on his feet to impair the drive and strong enough to make the king work. The C's will need a committee to get the job done, but I think it might throw Cleveland off to start Semi. When he's on the floor, we lose offense because he's a reluctant shooter, but the rest of the team may have enough firepower to compensate. Hopefully, between now and Sunday, Brad can impress that he has to take an open shot, and nothing wrong with the occasional hard foul. Go Celtics! Hawk

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu May 10, 2018 11:05 pm

KD.

Really good post, but given the fact that you already called Philly the best team in the East, have to take your predictions with a grain of salt. Cool

First off - Cleveland is a terrible defensive time.  That was true in the regular season.  That was true vs Indiana and remained true vs Toronto.  The only team in the NBA that is worse is the Phoenix Suns.  This has to become a factor at some point.

I dont see how Lebron is much different that Giannas...and the Celtics figured him out as much as that is possible over the course of the series.  James will get his, but I think some of the other match ups you describe are a bit off base.

Under no circumstances is Rozier vs Hill a push.  Terry is a better player in every aspect of the game.  Better shooter, better rebounding, better passer, better defender, less turnovers.
Rozier/Smart > Hill/Smith

I think Jaylen is significantly better than Korver and Clarkson.

One other thing. Lebron no longer has Kyrie to hit the big shot.

Give me the Celtics in 6
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu May 10, 2018 11:15 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:

Lebron is ridiculously good at basketball. Other than "The Decision", he has mostly carried himself with class and dignity, and even the decision was more a result of not understanding his impact on the region than a real character flaw. Other than the fact that he has always played for major Celtics rivals, I don't get why so many disparage Lebron.

Here are a couple of others.

#1 - He named HIMSELF the King.

#2 - Zero Humility or Self Reflection - all about the king.  Remember this gem?
"All the people that was rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today."

#3 - He disrespected Bill Russell TWICE

*Said catagorically he was one of the best 4 of all time - and would be on the mytical NBA Mount Rushmore.  Bill responded in kind

“Hey, thank you for leaving me off your Mount Rushmore. I’m glad you did. Basketball is a team game, it’s not for individual honors. I won back-to-back state championships in high school, back-to-back NCAA championships in college. I won an NBA championship my first year in the league, an NBA championship in my last year, and nine in between. That, Mr. James, is etched in stone.”

Second time, when he moved to Miami (after the Decision), he decided #23 should be retired and never worn again, out of respect for an all time great - Michael Jordan.  This idiot then selects #6 to wear - a number worn by the greatest winner in professional basketball history.  

Then after returning to Cleveland, guess what number wasnt sacred any more?  23.

What a clown.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by swish on Thu May 10, 2018 11:41 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:

Lebron is ridiculously good at basketball. Other than "The Decision", he has mostly carried himself with class and dignity, and even the decision was more a result of not understanding his impact on the region than a real character flaw. Other than the fact that he has always played for major Celtics rivals, I don't get why so many disparage Lebron.

Here are a couple of others.

#1 - He named HIMSELF the King.

#2 - Zero Humility or Self Reflection - all about the king.  Remember this gem?
"All the people that was rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today."

#3 - He disrespected Bill Russell TWICE

*Said catagorically he was one of the best 4 of all time - and would be on the mytical NBA Mount Rushmore.  Bill responded in kind

“Hey, thank you for leaving me off your Mount Rushmore. I’m glad you did. Basketball is a team game, it’s not for individual honors. I won back-to-back state championships in high school, back-to-back NCAA championships in college. I won an NBA championship my first year in the league, an NBA championship in my last year, and nine in between. That, Mr. James, is etched in stone.”

Second time, when he moved to Miami (after the Decision), he decided #23 should be retired and never worn again, out of respect for an all time great - Michael Jordan.  This idiot then selects #6 to wear - a number worn by the greatest winner in professional basketball history.  

Then after returning to Cleveland, guess what number wasnt sacred any more?  23.

What a clown.

Quite possible that his below statement is accurate.

"*Said catagorically he was one of the best 4 of all time"

I'll buy that - and rank Russell far behind him.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu May 10, 2018 11:50 pm

swish wrote:

 Quite possible that his below statement is accurate.

     "*Said catagorically he was one of the best 4 of all time"

  I'll buy that - and rank Russell far behind him.

  swish
 

Clearly, you have a thing for egotistical assholes, which is your prerogative. But when he says stuff like that on a regular basis, dont ask innocently why people dont like him.

As for the Russell being far behind part - guess we will have to leave that aside for a different discussion on another day.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by swish on Fri May 11, 2018 12:01 am

mrkleen09 wrote:
swish wrote:  

 Quite possible that his below statement is accurate.

     "*Said catagorically he was one of the best 4 of all time"

  I'll buy that - and rank Russell far behind him.

  swish
 

Clearly, you have a thing for egotistical assholes, which is your prerogative.  But when he says stuff like that on a regular basis, dont ask innocently why people dont like him.  

As for the Russell being far behind part - guess we will have to leave that aside for a different discussion on another day.

mrkleen

"As for the Russell being far behind part - guess we will have to leave that aside for a different discussion on another day.[/quote]"

Whenever your ready

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by worcester on Fri May 11, 2018 12:16 am

Swish, comparing players from different centuries is like comparing cars from different decades. It's an illogical exercise. No way would I compare a 1958 Corvette to a 2018 Vette. Both are great in their own fashion for their time. Some of my best memories took place in a 58 Vette, and no one can convince me that the extra horsepower, air conditioning, and electronics make the newest model better. They are different species from different times. Actually, as cars have evolved, so have basketball players. Russ may be a dinosaur from a long forgotten era, but he was the BEST dinosaur of that era, yes even better than Wilt, at playing winning team basketball. LeBron is superb, no doubt. Let's leave him in the 21st century where he belongs.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by swish on Fri May 11, 2018 1:29 am

worcester wrote:Swish, comparing players from different centuries is like comparing cars from different decades. It's an illogical exercise. No way would I compare a 1958 Corvette to a 2018 Vette. Both are great in their own fashion for their time. Some of my best memories took place in a 58 Vette, and no one can convince me that the extra horsepower, air conditioning,  and electronics make the newest model better. They are different species from different times. Actually, as cars have evolved, so have basketball players. Russ may be a dinosaur from a long forgotten era, but he was the BEST dinosaur of that era, yes even better than Wilt, at playing winning team basketball.  LeBron is superb, no doubt. Let's leave him in the 21st century where he belongs.

Perhaps the best of his generation - no doubt.  Best of all time - no way. Just like the technological advances of the last 70 years has outdated so many products - so to as the sports world seen a huge increase in athletic skills over the past 70 years. The nba that Russell was introduced to in December of 1956 was in all fazes of the game far inferior to the present game.
Accordingly, Russell's great achievements were just about all at the expense of the lowest level of competition in the history of the nba - the worst honor goes to  those 8 years or so that preceded Russ.

  swish

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by swish on Fri May 11, 2018 2:26 am

worcester,
as an add on to my previous post I want you to know that I have on many occasions preached the idea that Russell is most favorably viewed when compared to his peers - but since the question frequently arises as to the greatest of all time - its quite easy to come up with an entirely different response. He will always be the basketball hero of my youth - buttttt

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by kdp59 on Fri May 11, 2018 7:54 am

mrkleen09 wrote:KD.

Really good post, but given the fact that you already called Philly the best team in the East, have to take your predictions with a grain of salt. Cool

First off - Cleveland is a terrible defensive time.  That was true in the regular season.  That was true vs Indiana and remained true vs Toronto.  The only team in the NBA that is worse is the Phoenix Suns.  This has to become a factor at some point.

I dont see how Lebron is much different that Giannas...and the Celtics figured him out as much as that is possible over the course of the series.  James will get his, but I think some of the other match ups you describe are a bit off base.

Under no circumstances is Rozier vs Hill a push.  Terry is a better player in every aspect of the game.  Better shooter, better rebounding, better passer, better defender, less turnovers.
Rozier/Smart > Hill/Smith

I think Jaylen is significantly better than Korver and Clarkson.

One other thing.  Lebron no longer has Kyrie to hit the big shot.

Give me the Celtics in 6
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


all good points for sure and I hope you are correct in your assessment of how this series goes.

I thought I said Philly was playing the best in the east going into the playoffs (with that 16 game win streak) but perhaps I said they were the best in the east I can't remember.

I agree Rozier is the better player right now, but Hill is a savvy vet who has been in the playoffs before and that's why I said it is a push for me. I hope Terry outplays him by a wide margin though.

I do have to disagree that LeBron is the same as Giannis though. the greak freak may HOPE to be as close as LeBron one day, but he is NOT close yet.

spot on about Cleveland defense , though they have tightened it up in these playoffs.

and YES LeBron is left with only Love as a wing man to step up in big games now and in the end that just might be Cleveland downfall. Of course we also do not have Irving or Hayward to make those big shots either I would note.

I see this as Cleveland's last hoorah to be honest so even if we lose to them this year, the future will be the Celtics and Philly in the east.

future being starting next season.

but I hope you are correct and the future is now, if so I think the post scrip will be how Lerbon finally wore down from playing so many minutes this year.

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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by Ktronic1 on Fri May 11, 2018 9:21 am

gyso wrote:Swish,

Your answer to Shamrock's question is not up to your usual high standards, in fact it comes up a bit short.

My dislike of LeBron has nothing to do with me occasionally wearing green colored glasses (extreme partisanship).  Also, the other side of that coin suggests that I don't like him because he is our rival (also extreme partisanship).  That is likewise not true.  I respect his skills and think he will go down in history as one of the all time greats.

The only other choice left to me in your answer is kind of insulting, which is that I (or others) lack basketball knowledge.  I'm sure that you really don't think that is true or meant to say that about other folks on this board.

Is it possible that there is a third answer?  Perhaps I do not like him because of his sense of entitlement and maybe because of some of his life choices.  It is just my opinion and I am sure others have their own opinion that sits outside of your two answers to his question.

There have been many players on Boston / New England teams that I have not liked in my 50 years (or so) of being a sports fan.  I do cheer them on because they are on my favorite teams, but I don't necessarily "like" them and later, I am glad that they are gone.

So anyway, no hard feelings, but better luck next time.

Best Regards,

gyso
His life choices? Is that just a throwaway comment or is it that you really don’t like some of his choices. If so, may i ask what they could be?
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri May 11, 2018 9:29 am

kdp59 wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


all good points for sure and I hope you are correct in your assessment of how this series goes.

I thought I said Philly was playing the best in the east going into the playoffs (with that 16 game win streak) but perhaps I said they were the best in the east I can't remember.

I agree Rozier is the better player right now, but Hill is a savvy vet who has been in the playoffs before and that's why I said it is a push for me. I hope Terry outplays him by a wide margin though.

I do have to disagree that LeBron is the same as Giannis though. the greak freak may HOPE to be as close as LeBron one day, but he is NOT close yet.

spot on about Cleveland defense , though they have tightened it up in these playoffs.

and YES LeBron is left with only Love as a wing man to step up in big games now and in the end that just might be Cleveland downfall. Of course we also do not have Irving or Hayward to make those big shots either I would note.

I see this as Cleveland's last hoorah  to be honest so even if we lose to them this year, the future will be the Celtics and Philly  in the east.

future being starting next season.

but I hope you are correct and the future is now, if so I think the post scrip will be how Lerbon finally wore down from playing so many minutes  this year.


I pretty much agree with all of this. According to Vegas, this series is a push. Feeling like Lebron overextended himself earlier in the playoffs then he has had to in the past, so that plus his age has to catch up to him at some point.

But yes, this is all house money for the Celtics. Go out, play hard, have fun and see what happens.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by mrkleen09 on Fri May 11, 2018 9:35 am

Swish, try not to get distracted here.  Lets get back to your original point

swish wrote:

Shamrock

 "Other than the fact that he has always played for major Celtics rivals, I don't get why so many disparage Lebron.
"

  My answer to your above question - is
Extreme partisanship towards one's favorite players or - a common sense lack of basketball  knowledge.

  swish

What does disliking an egotistical jerk like Lebron have to do with "lack of basketball knowledge"???

He is a jerk.  Period.  He not only abandoned his hometown team, he embarrassed them in a 60 minute TV spectacle.  Plus the examples I already showed, are MORE THAN ENOUGH reason to think he is an asshole and "disparage" him as Shamrock said.

If you think talent is more important than character, thats fine.  But the whole "the only reason you can dislike Lebron is that you dont understand basketball" argument is foolish.

I respect Lebron as a competitor.  I respect what he has done for kids in Akron.  But I dont have to like him, and that has nothing to do with my understanding of the sport.


Last edited by mrkleen09 on Fri May 11, 2018 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

Post by worcester on Fri May 11, 2018 9:41 am

Swish - the Greatest Basketball Player of All Time may not have been born yet.
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Re: My thoughts on the next series

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